Automated announcements / reserved seats.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

The fact that people are sitting in reserved seats is more down to many Irish people's ignorance (as in not knowing any better), or the "ah sure it's grand" mentality of ignoring any semblance of authority.

Does the same thing happen when Irish people board flights with reserved seating?

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If there is no seat left on the train and you are certain all you need to do is ask them to check the CCTV or the passenger counters. Not sure if its only refund vouchers but they need to allow people use them to buy online fares again which currently isn't possible.

Giving online credit would be a better idea if it could also be used in station booking offices.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

Does the same thing happen when Irish people board flights with reserved seating?

That is hardly the same - everyone has a boarding pass with an assigned seat in that situation. There is also a team of flight attendants onboard to enforce the seating.

Like it or not Mark there is that sort of attitude among a certain percentage of our population.

As I said, the digital signage on board is no different to any of the signage on modern rolling stock abroad.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

That is hardly the same - everyone has a boarding pass with an assigned seat in that situation. There is also a team of flight attendants onboard to enforce the seating.

Like it or not Mark there is that sort of attitude among a certain percentage of our population.

As I said, the digital signage on board is no different to any of the signage on modern rolling stock abroad.

I know you're right, some people don't care about obeying the rules or getting in others way but equally you have to admit that if other transport companies can pull this off but Irish Rail can't, there has to be an element of shared responsibility. It's not enough to say that customers are stupid and/or ignorant when the same customer can work with the system on a flight. Blaming the customer and giving up is a cop out and the lazy way out.

Hilly Bill

The Royal Scam wrote: »

If IE were forced to have a system wheras you got your ticket price refunded if you pre booked seat was occupied, they would be sort out the issue sharpish..

It wouldnt work as all you need to do is get your mate to sit there and then claim a refund.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

I know you're right, some people don't care about obeying the rules or getting in others way but equally you have to admit that if other transport companies can pull this off but Irish Rail can't, there has to be an element of shared responsibility. It's not enough to say that customers are stupid and/or ignorant when the same customer can work with the system on a flight. Blaming the customer and giving up is a cop out and the lazy way out.

What other transport companies operate in Ireland that "pull this off"?

There aren't any.

Comparing it to aircraft is a complete canard.

The reality is that reserved seating has operated across Europe in Standard Class for years, but was only introduced here relatively recently - previously it was only available in 1st Class.

There are still large numbers of Irish people who are still (and I do find this extraordinary) not used to it, and often quite innocently do sit in reserved seats without even looking at the signs above them or listening to the announcements.

I'm certainly not trying to cop out and I resent that suggestion - but the fact is that the exact same signage works perfectly well on Voyagers and Pendolinos in Great Britain, without any army of staff being present to enforce it.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

Comparing it to aircraft is a complete canard.

Why - people get on board and sit in their reserved seats? Does the heigh above sea level affect their ability to sit in the correct seat?

was only introduced here relatively recently - previously it was only available in 1st Class.

Now I believe you've hit the nail on the head. Irish Rail introduced a new policy and made little or no effort to educate their customers about it. There is no-one on board checking that people are sitting in the right seats or resolving disputes between customers. There is no-one on board to ask people to move if they're taking someone elses seat - IR just leave that to the customer and hope that they sort it out themselves.

This is my problem - they fired seat reservations into the wild without any thought or planning for how it would work. They fixed the technical difficulties they had at the start but gave no thought to the human difficulties. Like so many other things, it's half-assed and lazy.

LXFlyer

As I pointed out above Mark - there is an entire team of flight attendants to enforce seating on aircraft, and as a fairly frequent flier I can tell you that even then it doesn't always work - and I do have to say that my experience of flying is that Irish people tend to be far less savvy in terms of finding their seats than most other nationalities.

As far as IE are concerned, well part of the problem boils down to cost - extra staff on every train costs extra money - money the company simply doesn't have.

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

Why - people get on board and sit in their reserved seats? Does the heigh above sea level affect their ability to sit in the correct seat?



Now I believe you've hit the nail on the head. Irish Rail introduced a new policy and made little or no effort to educate their customers about it. There is no-one on board checking that people are sitting in the right seats or resolving disputes between customers. There is no-one on board to ask people to move if they're taking someone elses seat - IR just leave that to the customer and hope that they sort it out themselves.

This is my problem - they fired seat reservations into the wild without any thought or planning for how it would work. They fixed the technical difficulties they had at the start but gave no thought to the human difficulties. Like so many other things, it's half-assed and lazy.

Its a train not junior infants.
Whats the answer then? How would you resolve it ?

markpb

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Whats the answer then? How would you resolve it ?

First, I probably wouldn't take the attitude that whatever happens, it's all my customers fault and that they're all stupid. That's remarkably ignorant (to be clear, I'm referring to IR, not you or lxflyer.)

Secondly, there's usually only one or two carriages which have reserved seating per train. Clearly indicating that on the platform would go a long way. I know they do this sometimes/at some stations but not always.

Placing the train host at that first doorway into a carriage with reserved seating and have them check tickets would go a long way. People who have reserved seating are less likely to sit in the wrong seat than people who don't.

Having the train host pass along the train during boarding at busy stations so they're not far away if there's a passenger conflict would also help. Only having one member of staff isn't ideal but understandable. Perhaps some of the station staff at busy stations could help with this?

I'm not suggesting it can be completely solved but the idea that you can change the way your customers interact with your service and provide no assistance at all is either incredibly naive or incredibly lazy.

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

First, I probably wouldn't take the attitude that whatever happens, it's all my customers fault and that they're all stupid. That's remarkably ignorant (to be clear, I'm referring to IR, not you or lxflyer.)

Secondly, there's usually only one or two carriages which have reserved seating per train. Clearly indicating that on the platform would go a long way. I know they do this sometimes/at some stations but not always.

Placing the train host at that first doorway into a carriage with reserved seating and have them check tickets would go a long way. People who have reserved seating are less likely to sit in the wrong seat than people who don't.

Having the train host pass along the train during boarding at busy stations so they're not far away if there's a passenger conflict would also help. Only having one member of staff isn't ideal but understandable. Perhaps some of the station staff at busy stations could help with this?

I'm not suggesting it can be completely solved but the idea that you can change the way your customers interact with your service and provide no assistance at all is either incredibly naive or incredibly lazy.

What evidence have you, to make that statement regarding IR attitude towards its customers blaming them?

The rest that you mention is being done.

markpb

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What evidence have you, to make that statement regarding IR attitude towards its customers blaming them?

The rest that you mention is being done.

Any time I've taken the train, there was no sign on the platform to indicate which carriage contained reserved seats. Other than the standard ticket checkers, there was no-one checking that only reserved seat holders were entering a carriage containing reserved seats. The train host was never to be seen during boarding. If it has improved hugely in the last few months (I have too much baby crap to carry around now to be able to take the train), fair play to them for trying to fix it but it certainly wasn't when I took the train last.

The company introduced a new system and, at least for the first few years, made no effort to ensure it worked well. What would you call it?

Jamie2k9

Does the same thing happen when Irish people board flights with reserved seating?

It does happen some of the time except there would be no crap taken by the crew, it will be move to your seat or off the flight.

Any time I've taken the train, there was no sign on the platform to indicate which carriage contained reserved seats

All carrages have reserved seats.

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

Any time I've taken the train, there was no sign on the platform to indicate which carriage contained reserved seats. Other than the standard ticket checkers, there was no-one checking that only reserved seat holders were entering a carriage containing reserved seats. The train host was never to be seen during boarding. If it has improved hugely in the last few months (I have too much baby crap to carry around now to be able to take the train), fair play to them for trying to fix it but it certainly wasn't when I took the train last.

The company introduced a new system and, at least for the first few years, made no effort to ensure it worked well. What would you call it?

In your opinion only.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Whats the answer then? How would you resolve it ?

Drop seat reservations from 2nd class.

Get rid of the online booking charge. I don't think most people actually want or care about reserving a seat, which is part of the problem, the only reason they do it is because it is a requirement of booking online.

The reality is most trains are far less busy nowadays and I rarely see anyone standing, even on the busiest trains.

If you can't do it properly, don't do it at all. Simplify it and it will be cheaper to run, won't cause confusion to passengers and won't lead to conforntations and pissed off passengers.

This is how it works in the Netherlands, it also has the benefit of making first class more attractive as it will be the only area where you can actually book a seat.

markpb

Hilly Bill wrote: »

In your opinion only.

Yes. Welcome to boards.ie, a place where people share their opinions. Occasionally people will have opinions which differ to yours. It's shocking, I know!

Do you genuinely think Irish Rail really put a lot of thought into seat reservations before they introduced them? Do you think there are no problems with the system, that it works well and that the only flaw in the system are passengers?

foggy_lad

markpb wrote: »

I know you're right, some people don't care about obeying the rules or getting in others way but equally you have to admit that if other transport companies can pull this off but Irish Rail can't, there has to be an element of shared responsibility. It's not enough to say that customers are stupid and/or ignorant when the same customer can work with the system on a flight. Blaming the customer and giving up is a cop out and the lazy way out.

I think it is a case with a lot of people that they want to annoy the "snobs" who book their seats online. They know that as with the scumbags that drink, shout, threaten and abuse people on some trains there will be nothing done as most trains are not staffed apart from the driver who is not going to get involved in a dispute over a seat!

Lets face it, the only trains with a "host" are the Belfast and Cork services and the hosts on those trains tend to stay in 1st class with maybe a quick walk-thru shortly after departure.

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

Yes. Welcome to boards.ie, a place where people share their opinions. Occasionally people will have opinions which differ to yours. It's shocking, I know!

Do you genuinely think Irish Rail really put a lot of thought into seat reservations before they introduced them? Do you think there are no problems with the system, that it works well and that the only flaw in the system are passengers?

I didnt say anything about the difference opinion to mine.

Its a simple enough system that some would rather blame someone else for their unability to understand it.
You get a seat number when you book online, you go and sit in that seat. Where is the flaw? If someone is sitting there then just move them. There is no need to babysit every passenger that booked online.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Drop seat reservations from 2nd class.

Get rid of the online booking charge. I don't think most people actually want or care about reserving a seat, which is part of the problem, the only reason they do it is because it is a requirement of booking online.

The reality is most trains are far less busy nowadays and I rarely see anyone standing, even on the busiest trains.

If you can't do it properly, don't do it at all. Simplify it and it will be cheaper to run, won't cause confusion to passengers and won't lead to conforntations and pissed off passengers.

This is how it works in the Netherlands, it also has the benefit of making first class more attractive as it will be the only area where you can actually book a seat.

Wouldnt that make reserving a seat more expensive? I would think that when people buy online they are doing it for the cheaper fare rather than making sure that they get a seat on that service.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I think it is a case with a lot of people that they want to annoy the "snobs" who book their seats online. They know that as with the scumbags that drink, shout, threaten and abuse people on some trains there will be nothing done as most trains are not staffed apart from the driver who is not going to get involved in a dispute over a seat!

Lets face it, the only trains with a "host" are the Belfast and Cork services and the hosts on those trains tend to stay in 1st class with maybe a quick walk-thru shortly after departure.

What about the checker on the trains?

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Wouldnt that make reserving a seat more expensive? I would think that when people buy online they are doing it for the cheaper fare rather than making sure that they get a seat on that service.

Yes exactly that is the point.

I'm saying completely scrap reserved seats in standard (first class). So when you buy a ticket online, you are only buying a ticket for the service but not reserving a seat and no €2 charge for reserving a seat, that most people don't actually want to pay.

Really the whole reserved seat thing is just an excuse for Irish Rail to squeeze another €2 out of everyone who buys a ticket online. Otherwise they would allow you to opt to reserve a seat or not when booking online.

Sitec

I used to commute by train 5 days a week and the amount of hassle I got from people sitting in my seat was unreal. One woman told me to "fcuk off" when I told her she was sitting in my seat !