Automated announcements / reserved seats.

spiralbus

I travelled up and down to Dublin on Thursday and it was a pleasure to find that the automated announcements were borked (in carriage 4118 anyway).

It made for a much quieter journey.

Also noticed an OAP and his daughter sat themselves down in a reserved seat and the person who had the seat was faced with the prospect of upsetting an oldie or trying to find another seat. She opted for the latter.

Any thoughts/ views ?

Fred Swanson

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corktina

you'd nearly be at your destiantion before you found him! Should ahve made the daughter move!

I think the Irish need to be a bit more assertive over such things

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

you'd nearly be at your destiantion before you found him! Should ahve made the daughter move!

I think the Irish need to be a bit more assertive over such things

They either need to be told that it has happened or physically stop and ask every passenger in a reserved seat for ID and a ticket. Asking a passenger to move is generally easier and quicker.

ProudDUB

spiralbus wrote: »

Also noticed an OAP and his daughter sat themselves down in a reserved seat and the person who had the seat was faced with the prospect of upsetting an oldie or trying to find another seat. She opted for the latter.

Any thoughts/ views ?

Unless she screamed into his face, where is the cause for any upset? All she had to do was politely point out that he was sitting in a reserved seat and stand aside for him to move to another one. Why would he get upset at that and even if he did, so what? He is the one that made the mistake, not her.

Louche Lad

ProudDUB wrote: »

Unless she screamed into his face, where is the cause for any upset? All she had to do was politely point out that he was sitting in a reserved seat and stand aside for him to move to another one. Why would he get upset at that and even if he did, so what? He is the one that made the mistake, not her.

Depends on the OAP. If he's 71, active and 'with it', no problem. But if he's 91 and looks exhausted or 'not all there', I wouldn't push it.

corktina

Louche Lad wrote: »

Depends on the OAP. If he's 71, active and 'with it', no problem. But if he's 91 and looks exhausted or 'not all there', I wouldn't push it.

i would unless the daughter weas in a similar state....the daughter can stand up, there's no reason why the person who reserved the seat should

flazio

If a like for like seat can be found elsewhere I fail to see what the issue is, out of curiosity was it one of those near the door seats?

Louche Lad

flazio wrote: »

If a like for like seat can be found elsewhere I fail to see what the issue is, out of curiosity was it one of those near the door seats?

That is a point — someone who's very infirm might want to stay near the door as it is too tiring and time-consuming to make their way to a free seat somewhere further along.

Milan Cobian

If someone books a seat, they expect to sit in it.. It's not their problem how old or infirm someone else is. If they're that old and infirm, they should book their own seat. In any case, if they can walk down the platform to the carriage door, they can walk to a new seat.
Typical Irish "ah shure it'll be grand" bull****, it's not grand, if you book a service that includes a reserved seat, you are entitled to that seat, no excuses. It's not the problem of the customer what condition the other passengers are in.

Hilly Bill

Louche Lad wrote: »

That is a point — someone who's very infirm might want to stay near the door as it is too tiring and time-consuming to make their way to a free seat somewhere further along.

If they were able to make their way to the train and to the reserved carriage then they are able to go back and find a seat in the unreserved carriage.
I could understand if it was the first seat they got to on the platform at the end of the train.

corktina

IE must do a lot more to make sure people get the seats they have reserved otherwise it is pointless having reservations. It is IEs responsibility to get that seat for their customer

im invisible

What would you do when faced with a less than half full carrige, and someone sitting opposite the seat that you have booked, facing you? Happened me once, now i book a group of 4 seats any time i'm travelling by train.

feelgoodinc27

Milan Cobian wrote: »

If someone books a seat, they expect to sit in it.. It's not their problem how old or infirm someone else is. If they're that old and infirm, they should book their own seat. In any case, if they can walk down the platform to the carriage door, they can walk to a new seat.
Typical Irish "ah shure it'll be grand" bull****, it's not grand, if you book a service that includes a reserved seat, you are entitled to that seat, no excuses. It's not the problem of the customer what condition the other passengers are in.

You are entitled to it, but would you let one of these old or infirm stand from Dublin to Cork? Old people and computers tend not to be a great combination so booking is out of the question, and if there are free seats on a train I'd rather take one them than evict an OAP.

Irish Rail tend to be to blame a lot of the time anyway, either not displaying reservations at all or not until after boarding has started.

corktina

how much extra effort would it take for IE to have a system that allocates a seat to every ticket it issues? " there's your ticket sir, seat C37"

They could even have standing tickets with no seat allocated on a busy train @10% discount!

It just takes the will to give better service to their customers.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

how much extra effort would it take for IE to have a system that allocates a seat to every ticket it issues? " there's your ticket sir, seat C37"

They could even have standing tickets with no seat allocated on a busy train @10% discount!

It just takes the will to give better service to their customers.

That what happens when you reserve a seat.

can you honestly see someone standing when there is a free seat ?

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That what happens when you reserve a seat.

can you honestly see someone standing when there is a free seat ?

specifically said for busy trains, for when all the seats are booked.

Jamie2k9

Part of the problem with pre booked seats is a lot of passengers don't actually sit in the pre booked seats.

road_high

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Part of the problem with pre booked seats is a lot of passengers don't actually sit in the pre booked seats.

It is and guilty of it myself. Mainly because I figure that the system for reserving seats is so bad anyhow that by the time I find it, it will likely have some one else sitting there with the resultant scramble for a seat elsewhere or cause a "scene" as per previous posts.

I really agree that it should be IE's responsibility to enforce the arrangements much better rather than leaving it up to the individual concerned. Currently it's far too relaxed and reliant on the intelligence and goodwill of the travelling public. Hence the reason why there's problems!

Losty Dublin

road_high wrote: »

It is and guilty of it myself. Mainly because I figure that the system for reserving seats is so bad anyhow that by the time I find it, it will likely have some one else sitting there with the resultant scramble for a seat elsewhere or cause a "scene" as per previous posts.

I really agree that it should be IE's responsibility to enforce the arrangements much better rather than leaving it up to the individual concerned. Currently it's far too relaxed and reliant on the intelligence and goodwill of the travelling public. Hence the reason why there's problems!

More like it doesn't work because people like you are selfish and unreasonable sitting on reserved seats.

road_high

Losty Dublin wrote: »

More like it doesn't work because people like you are selfish and unreasonable sitting on reserved seats.

Hold your horses there....where did I say I was sitting in other people's reseved seats
Read the post before embarking on lectures...

Strumms

I had it a few years back Dublin to Cork. I had reserved a seat in 1st class unusually for me as I fancied a bit of extra comfort and legroom due to a recent knee injury which had still been playing up. Anyway when I got to my allocated seat there was a group of well enough to-do middle class ladies say mid-late 60's in my seat and those around it. I thought at first it was my mistake but when I realised I pointed it out to them that my seat was occupied by one of them in error. They thought this was funny and started to feed me bull**** that they don't usually travel on the train and would I be asking a group of old ladies to move you knowthe auld guit trip thing, obviously old dears on the free pass which wasn't good enough just getting a regular seat they thought they'd upgrade themselves to mine ! .. I had a look around the carriage for a second as it began to fill up quickly behind me so ..". Erm no madam I payed for this seat, I selected this seat, if you would kindly find alternative seating yourselves or do I have to contact the train manager to assist you ? " anyway much grunting and flannel later they did move...

I also get this a lot on Aer Lingus where if I select a window seat I find somone already sitting there and I have been asked countless amounts of times if I would mind swapping which I certainly don't do any more. I even booked the emergency exit rows on the way back from Nice last year and somone who wasn't even in the same row was sitting in my seat and wouldn't remove themselves until requested to do so by the cabin crew member.

All in all if you book a seat you are entitled to sit in it. For anyone else who didn't have the foresight to book in advance to suit their own requirements and comforts.. **** em. Not my problem. If the elderly gent mentioned above has assistance from his daughter then I would guess she took care of the ticket booking and should have had herself and the gentleman seated where they were booked, end of. If its somone so old with a disability or frailness than fair enough I can sacrifice my own comfort in those circumstances lets face it it won't be a regular occurrence.

Losty Dublin

road_high wrote: »

Hold your horses there....where did I say I was sitting in other people's reseved seats
Read the post before embarking on lectures...

The bit where you said... "It is and guilty of it myself. Mainly because I figure that the system for reserving seats is so bad anyhow that by the time I find it, it will likely have some one else sitting there with the resultant scramble for a seat elsewhere or cause a "scene" as per previous posts."

Sit where you like having booked a seat, that makes the booking system work so much better :rolleyes:

Fred Swanson

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Emme

The elderly person might have been visually impaired and not realised the seat was booked. Sometimes Iarnrod Eireann don't put reserved signs on the seats themselves but a sign lights up above the seat with the person's name on it. An old person might not know to look for that. Also they might not have been able to see "Reserved" written on the sign if it was there.

If other seats were available I wouldn't see the point in asking an old or infirm person to move. I think that would be rather mean. Would any of you like people to that to your parents or grandparents?

Hilly Bill

There are carriages set aside for online reservations and any visually impaired passengers or infirm would get help in boarding and wouldnt be placed in a reserved seat.

schemingbohemia

Emme wrote: »

The elderly person might have been visually impaired and not realised the seat was booked. Sometimes Iarnrod Eireann don't put reserved signs on the seats themselves but a sign lights up above the seat with the person's name on it. An old person might not know to look for that. Also they might not have been able to see "Reserved" written on the sign if it was there.

If other seats were available I wouldn't see the point in asking an old or infirm person to move. I think that would be rather mean. Would any of you like people to that to your parents or grandparents?

Yes, I would prefer people to do that, so that they would learn and not sit in the wrong place in future.

Of course, I'd have told them beforehand to book a seat themselves and kick anyone sitting in their seat out.

Peppa Pig

Emme wrote: »

If other seats were available I wouldn't see the point in asking an old or infirm person to move. I think that would be rather mean. Would any of you like people to that to your parents or grandparents?

Just curious, if all the other empty seats were reserved, would you ask them to move or take someone else's seat?

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Just curious, if all the other empty seats were reserved, would you ask them to move or take someone else's seat?

Reservations are only held until the train leaves the station the seat has been reserved from. If you see an empty seat with reservation and it does not show "reserved from xxx station" then that seat is free for any passenger to use as long as the person that reserved it is not just in the toilet/buffet car.

laoisfan

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

IE have no legal power to fine anyone who sits in a reserved seat. They can of course politely ask you to vacate the seat. If you refuse they can remove you from the train.

Can you please quote the by-law which shows that IE have this legal power? I am unable to find it. And the guys over on the Rail Users Ireland website were unable to as well.

laoisfan

laoisfan wrote: »

IE have no legal power to fine anyone who sits in a reserved seat. They can of course politely ask you to vacate the seat. If you refuse they can remove you from the train.

Can you please quote the by-law which shows that IE have this legal power? I am unable to find it. And the guys over on the Rail Users Ireland website were unable to as well.

@Fred Swanson - actually had a think about this overnight and you may have a point. I asked a Revenue Inspector on the train this morning. He said the following:

Regular IE staff do not have the power to fine somebody who may sit in a reserved seat which is not theirs. They can have you removed from the train. However, the Revenue Inspectors ( about 36 in total ) do have the power to issue fines for such an offence AND remove you from the train also if necessary.

He mentioned the National Rail Act etc etc.

So there....I learnt something new

foggy_lad

laoisfan wrote: »

@Fred Swanson - actually had a think about this overnight and you may have a point. I asked a Revenue Inspector on the train this morning. He said the following:

Regular IE staff do not have the power to fine somebody who may sit in a reserved seat which is not theirs. They can have you removed from the train. However, the Revenue Inspectors ( about 36 in total ) do have the power to issue fines for such an offence AND remove you from the train also if necessary.

He mentioned the National Rail Act etc etc.

So there....I learnt something new

The fine option is only available to the revenue inspectors when the person who reserved the seat can't take their seat because of a trespasser at the time of departure. But this depends on the RPU inspector being on the scene.

If you reserve a seat in Waterford and you board in Thomastown your reservation is gone. If you sit in any reserved seat and no other person claims it as their own then it is free to use. but if a seat is marked reserved from Kilkenny and you sit there in Waterford you must be ready to vacate that seat in Kilkenny if the passenger with the reservation requires you to.

A lot of passengers reserve two seats next to each other thinking that they can prevent the great unwashed from sitting beside them but this is not the case. any unused reserved seat becomes available to all once the train departs the station the reservation is made from.

As for the announcements, recently on the Waterford trains I notice some drivers have been making station announcements which is much more welcome than the annoying computer generated announcements a few times before and after each stop.

nebel1

It was a pair of seats (airline style) in the middle of the carriage. The daughter knew the aisle seat was reserved so the father was popped there.

They joined the train well before it was well laden.

im invisible

Hmm... I like your style

Reserve aisle seat
Take window seat
????
PROFIT

foggy_lad

nebel1 wrote: »

It was a pair of seats (airline style) in the middle of the carriage. The daughter knew the aisle seat was reserved so the father was popped there.

They joined the train well before it was well laden.

How do we know that the daughter didn't reserve her own seat and pay for her ticket while her fathers ticket was free so no reservation was made? And booking the Aisle seat she knew there was less probability of the window seat being reserved unless the train was quite full so she switched seats when they board the train.

monument

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The bit where you said... "It is and guilty of it myself. Mainly because I figure that the system for reserving seats is so bad anyhow that by the time I find it, it will likely have some one else sitting there with the resultant scramble for a seat elsewhere or cause a "scene" as per previous posts."

Sit where you like having booked a seat, that makes the booking system work so much better :rolleyes:

He said he does not always sit in his reserved seat (because the system is such a mess), but he did not say he sits in other people's reserved seat (as you accused him of doing).

road_high

monument wrote: »

He said he does not always sit in his reserved seat (because the system is such a mess), but he did not say he sits in other people's reserved seat (as you accused him of doing).

Exactly thanks for pointing that out I couldn't be bothered repeating myself again.

Losty Dublin

monument wrote: »

He said he does not always sit in his reserved seat (because the system is such a mess), but he did not say he sits in other people's reserved seat (as you accused him of doing).

No, he said he doesn't think that it works so he doesn't look for his booked seat and he sits anywhere he feels like. The display system may not work the odd time but your booking still specifies your seat regardless. The fact that he still ignores this having gone to the trouble of booking a seat shows his stupidity, arrogance or both.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

monument

Losty Dublin wrote: »

No, he said he doesn't think that it works so he doesn't look for his booked seat and he sits anywhere he feels like. The display system may not work the odd time but your booking still specifies your seat regardless. The fact that he still ignores this having gone to the trouble of booking a seat shows his stupidity, arrogance or both.

Mod voice; warning: There's no need for talk of stupidity, arrogance etc. It's inflammatory and just basically pointless.

Personally speaking: When buying a ticket online -- as is the case with most reservations -- there's no "trouble" booking a seat. Even selecting a seat manually isn't hard at all!

But the problems on-board got annoying a good while ago: I've noted the displays not working on about 3 out of 4 of my last train trips -- that added to people sitting in booked seats, I can't see fault in people getting fed up of the system.

Losty Dublin

monument wrote: »

Pumped up Little Hitler voice; warning: There's no need for talk of stupidity, arrogance etc. It's inflammatory and just basically pointless.


Personally speaking: When buying a ticket online -- as is the case with most reservations -- there's no "trouble" booking a seat. Even selecting a seat manually isn't hard at all!

But the problems on-board got annoying a good while ago: I've noted the displays not working on about 3 out of 4 of my last train trips -- that added to people sitting in booked seats, I can't see fault in people getting fed up of the system.

Your know when you book what your reserved seat number is; it's on your e mail booking and it's also printed on your ticket. The fact that he reckons it's ok to sit elsewhere without even looking for a display is frankly quite idiotic. If your seat happens to be taken then at least get them to move or seek staff before you sit elsewhere; sitting elsewhere solves nothing.

monument

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Pumped up Little Hitler voice;....

To be clear: He's got a week ban for that.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Your know when you book what your reserved seat number is; it's on your e mail booking and it's also printed on your ticket. The fact that he reckons it's ok to sit elsewhere without even looking for a display is frankly quite idiotic. If your seat happens to be taken then at least get them to move or seek staff before you sit elsewhere; sitting elsewhere solves nothing.

People book seats because they don't want the hassle of having to find a seat on a full train. Whay should they have to find a staff member who may not exist? Why should they have to imteract with any other person when they have paid for a reserved seat?

When you book it seems that you are well notified of what seat is yours but irish rail don't seem to put as much effort into protecting your seat reservation. I blame irish rail but many blame free travel pass holders. So why not pull irish rail out of the scheme and end all subvention and let this fantastic company stand on its own well padded(with millions of euro) feet. We would soon see the retirements and management moving on/deserting their own personal titanic and the piling on of bonuses and severance payments like never seen before.

They have had many years to get online booking and reservations working but have failed. If they cant do something so basic why are they still employed?

Hilly Bill

How do you suggest they protect the reservations? Get someone to sit or stand guard over them until the owner arrives? Why Blame Irish Rail when its not them that sit in the reserved seats?

markpb

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How do you suggest they protect the reservations? Get someone to sit or stand guard over them until the owner arrives? Why Blame Irish Rail when its not them that sit in the reserved seats?

How do other transport operators deal with this problem? Do they find it impossible too?

corktina

i think part of the problem is that some people genuinely don't see the reservation display. It isn't that obvious what it means unless you know. Perhaps a sticker could be introduced around each display re-inforcing it's message and a default of "seat available" introduced.

Owryan

corktina wrote: »

i think part of the problem is that some people genuinely don't see the reservation display. It isn't that obvious what it means unless you know. Perhaps a sticker could be introduced around each display re-inforcing it's message and a default of "seat available" introduced.

I travel the dub-wat train weekly and for reaerved seats they have the name on the display and a white seat reserved noticed pinned to the head rest.

Does it work ? Usually only when the train is less than half full, some people appear to be pre occupied about sitting on their own and will sit in a reserved seat rather than opposite a stranger for a bit.

Lelantos

corktina wrote: »

i think part of the problem is that some people genuinely don't see the reservation display. It isn't that obvious what it means unless you know. Perhaps a sticker could be introduced around each display re-inforcing it's message and a default of "seat available" introduced.

If a seat is booked the name of the person is in orange above the window, its clearly visable. It leaves no doubt in any right thinking persons mind that unless your name matches the one in lights, this isn't your seat.

corktina

but does it? I got on a train the other day and pointed out my name to the people sitting in my bay and they were amazed. It isn't clear enough

monument

Lelantos wrote: »

If a seat is booked the name of the person is in orange above the window, its clearly visable. It leaves no doubt in any right thinking persons mind that unless your name matches the one in lights, this isn't your seat.

It's actually quite small and high up.

Many people are not regular users of the trains and there's often some confusion. For example:

I used to sit in the wheel chair / pram space (always willing to give it up for a disabled user and on the watch out for wheelchairs at stations) and I've witnessed lots of old people and a few not so old not having a clue how to work the disabled bathroom door / find the button. When I was even half aware I'd see this happening once or more a trip.

Another example: Between just keeping to the same carriage out of habit and bring bicycles along, I end up in the same end carriage and there's hardly a journey that somebody looking for a toilet would walk to the end where there's only the driver's cab -- many of them going as far as trying to open the driver's door.

corktina

very true. On my recent trip there was some guy who couldn't work out how to open the door to get off, and eventually went through to the next carriage where a door happened to be open.