Average Welfare Payments for Religious Ceremonies Halved 2012

wolfpawnat

clairefontaine wrote: »

but of teachers imo crossing a line and telling kids what they can and can't eat for lent. Seriously, who the hell do they think they are telling kids what they can and can't eat?

I find this weird. My son's birthday was during lent this year and he had a lovely chocolate cake. I offered it to the children and adults at the party, three of the parents declined and said not to offer it to their children either as they were off it for Lent....... These children are 3/4 years old and are being told they cannot have chocolate for a religious tradition they have no clue about. I thought it odd. When I said "For Lent I never give something up, I do something new" they looked at me as though it was the weirdest thing in the world. But hey, I'm no quitter!!!

Ghost Buster

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I find this weird. My son's birthday was during lent this year and he had a lovely chocolate cake. I offered it to the children and adults at the party, three of the parents declined and said not to offer it to their children either as they were off it for Lent....... These children are 3/4 years old and are being told they cannot have chocolate for a religious tradition they have no clue about. I thought it odd. When I said "For Lent I never give something up, I do something new" they looked at me as though it was the weirdest thing in the world. But hey, I'm no quitter!!!

The irony of being weird for not believing in talking snakes, walking dead and ladies getting in the family way from a magic cuddle from a spirit.:D

oldyouth

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Also, €1.5million, I know the country is not in great shape, but I doubt that €1.5 is what will make or break us. We waste larger sums of money on far more ridiculous things that that.

But the point is that, as a society, we need to be re-educated on the value of money. Phrases like "it is only €xxxx" need to be binned from our vocabulary.

Surely the taxpayer subsidising a hotel meal for 20 people attending a communion needs to be abolished

wolfpawnat

oldyouth wrote: »

But the point is that, as a society, we need to be re-educated on the value of money. Phrases like "it is only €xxxx" need to be binned from our vocabulary.

Surely the taxpayer subsidising a hotel meal for 20 people attending a communion needs to be abolished

see later posts re this statement.

shruikan2553

I was the only person in my class not to do communion or confirmation, while everyone was practicing how to eat bread I was reading and learning math. Instead of being made an outcast nobody cared and I didnt turn to crime due to low self esteem

Ghost Buster

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I was the only person in my class not to do communion or confirmation, while everyone was practicing how to eat bread I was reading and learning math. Instead of being made an outcast nobody cared and I didnt turn to crime due to low self esteem

Can I ask your age and where you went to school? (Rural or urban etc)

Much as I dislike the RCC I dont think schools are as big a deal as they are made out to be. Often i think its the parents takling the easy option for themselves but claiming 'it for the ickle child' when they put their kids through the whole catholic nonsense whilst not believing it themselves.

admiralofthefleet

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Can I ask your age and where you went to school? (Rural or urban etc)

Much as I dislike the RCC I dont think schools are as big a deal as they are made out to be. Often i think its the parents takling the easy option for themselves but claiming 'it for the ickle child' when they put their kids through the whole catholic nonsense whilst not believing it themselves.

a friend of mine was having their child christened a while ago. i said to them 'no more saturday nights in the pub now that you have to be up for mass on sunday morning'.
they have no intention of bringing their child up as a catholic they just wanted the ceremony[and piss up]

kylith

Ghost Buster wrote: »

To be honest the 'religion' they are taught up to second class is utterly harmless and aged 8 he had enough cop on ...

I have to disagree. When I was that age my religion classes had convinced me that I was related to everyone on earth, and that I was going to hell.

Plazaman

DesperateDan wrote: »

As an atheist....I find it pretty depressing that the government hands out even half the amount....to people to buy dresses for their communion....

As this money comes out of the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Budget, I (as a taxpayer) too am enraged at the following items SWA pays for.

FUNERALS : As a recluse, why should I pay for someones funeral who I've never met.
WASHING MACHINES : As a person with freshly washed clothes, whats wrong with the bath and a bit of Daz Powder ye lazy gits
BACK TO SCHOOL CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR : As a single person, why am I paying for the snotty nosed little feckers new pants and shoes that they'll have ruined within a week.
DIETARY ALLOWANCE : Gwan ye fat feckers and run it off
RENT ALLOWANCE : Aw yeah living in the lap of luxury off my dime

OK I may have gone over the top there, but I think the whole "as an atheist" thing doesn't make sense. You are an Irish Citizen first and foremost and most likely a decent human being and if fortunate enough to be a tax payer well at least you're in employment. There is no system of tax redistribution anywhere in the world that will mean that an individuals tax payments will go specifically to areas that relate to them and their lifestyle/beliefs.

wolfpawnat

Plazaman wrote: »

As this money comes out of the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Budget, I (as a taxpayer) too am enraged at the following items SWA pays for.

FUNERALS : As a recluse, why should I pay for someones funeral who I've never met.
WASHING MACHINES : As a person with freshly washed clothes, whats wrong with the bath and a bit of Daz Powder ye lazy gits
BACK TO SCHOOL CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR : As a single person, why am I paying for the snotty nosed little feckers new pants and shoes that they'll have ruined within a week.
DIETARY ALLOWANCE : Gwan ye fat feckers and run it off
RENT ALLOWANCE : Aw yeah living in the lap of luxury off my dime

OK I may have gone over the top there, but I think the whole "as an atheist" thing doesn't make sense. You are an Irish Citizen first and foremost and most likely a decent human being and if fortunate enough to be a tax payer well at least you're in employment. There is no system of tax redistribution anywhere in the world that will mean that an individuals tax payments will go specifically to areas that relate to them and their lifestyle/beliefs.

You forgot as a man (which I am assuming from your username) women should not have free maternity care :pac:

Sadly every tax euro goes somewhere and a lot of the time it is not in areas we would like, there are too many ridiculous SW payments that can safely be done away with without truly harming those in need. Same as tax euro's go on TD expenses when every other worker has to pay to go to work, etc.

Boombastic

Same people with the handout for this allowance are the ones complaining they can not heat the house (probably paid for by the taxpayer) or feed their family as the social welfare is too low. I went to a communion on the Continent last year, no dresses, just clean clothes, most of them didn't even wear white :eek: Stupid practice is stupid. Wear what you like but don't expect the state to pay for it. Communion should be taken out of schools and if it is something parents really want, they can do it on their own time.

For Paws

Plazaman hit the nail on the arse there.

These payments are not made specifically to purchase Communion dresses.
They are made when the cost of an exceptional event will put excessive demands on the usual family budget.

As an aside, this has very little to do with Catholicism in Ireland.

My sister lives in a country where Catholicism is a small minority, and her children, like all the children in her parish when 'making their 1stHC', were all dressed similarly in a kind of white smock.
All very equal & a good idea, you'd think.
Except all the parents had gone to extravagant pains to clothe their little ones in expensive new suits & dresses purchased especially for the day.
Btw ; there are no welfare grants where she lives. If people can afford it, they spend. If they can't afford it, they don't spend or suffer the lack of something else. Simples.

Oh yeah, Forgot something

Plazaman mentioned 'dietary allowance' - this normally means covering the extra costs of foods for coeliacs etc.
Thing is; when you put an allowance in place the price of the goods goes up. In the UK removal of a dietary allowance resulted in a drop in price in the shops for such special foods.

wolfpawnat

Boombastic wrote: »

Same people with the handout for this allowance are the ones complaining they can not heat the house (probably paid for by the taxpayer) or feed their family as the social welfare is too low. I went to a communion on the Continent last year, no dresses, just clean clothes, most of them didn't even wear white :eek: Stupid practice is stupid. Wear what you like but don't expect the state to pay for it. Communion should be taken out of schools and if it is something parents really want, they can do it on their own time.

Those are the people that make taxpayers spiteful and angry at everyone currently on SW. I mean so many are genuinely struggling every week to get by and don't even know you can go to the CWO for extenuating circumstances, or that they can get some of their bills subsidized (no one actually gets free bills) but yet you have this sort getting everything and they really annoy everyone.

Why not the robes like confirmation. We were the first year in my school to get them and it was great, we all wore things we liked underneath!

_Whimsical_

Parents need to come to a consensus that kids should wear their school uniforms and celebrate in a more modest way that doesn't involve throwing the equivalent of a mini wedding bash to rake in a small fortune in gifts.

They should change so their own kids don't grow up to be entitled prats and because there should be a sense of social responsibility not to set the celebration bar so high that families struggling financially can't keep up. No 6 year olds should not know what it's like to feel lesser or "poor". We all should have a role in ensuring they don't and it shouldn't be paying taxes so handouts can be given.

A start would be something we all could do even if we don't have kids and that is stop throwing 50/100 quid at these small kids on the day. Start giving them a fiver or a few sweets. If society takes the oomph and the fuel out of these big hoopla celebrations the tradition will soon fade out fast.

suicide_circus

Pretty sure it's free to have first communion so it's bazaar that the state would help fund it.

wolfpawnat

suicide_circus wrote: »

Pretty sure it's free to have first communion so it's bazaar that the state would help fund it.

Because somewhere in history it became normal to dress kids up in expensive outfits, not sure if it was society or the church, but I have seen pictures from the 40's with kids in those clothes so I assume it was the church.

For Paws

suicide_circus wrote: »

Pretty sure it's free to have first communion so it's bazaar that the state would help fund it.

Correctomundo

But Bouncy Castles are not free
Carlsberg is not free
New clothes aren't free

etc etc

So bizarre it's bazaar !

Boombastic

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Because somewhere in history it became normal to dress kids up in expensive outfits, not sure if it was society or the church, but I have seen pictures from the 40's with kids in those clothes so I assume it was the church.

I would say society, other many other countries don't act like we do regarding communion



Also, I despair when I hear of children being brought to the pub for the afternoon after the mass, grand for a meal but it's hardly a treat for the child - more like for the adults :rolleyes:

suicide_circus

It's not a necessary part of the ceremon and i've read of priests speaking out against the ridiculous overspending and waste which goes into it nowadays.

If braindead parents want to doll their little darlings up like garish gaudy mini bridzillas, let them. But on no account should the state foot the bill.

For Paws

Boombastic wrote: »

I would say society, other many other countries don't act like we do regarding communion



Also, I despair when I hear of children being brought to the pub for the afternoon after the mass, grand for a meal but it's hardly a treat for the child - more like for the adults :rolleyes:

Yes.

But it does allow the State to recoup some of the allowance.

Anyway, didn't the lil ones get to meet a real live Bishop !

suicide_circus

For Paws wrote: »

Correctomundo

But Bouncy Castles are not free
Carlsberg is not free
New clothes aren't free

etc etc

So bizarre it's bazaar !

Lol bizarre, quite.

If Jesus was real and was alive today, from what i've read of him, he would have been pretty sickened by the vulgar excesses which are now associated with the sacraments and would probably have horsewhipped these vain and idle parents out of his fathers house.

ejmaztec

Little Jimmy will be mightily pissed off if he doesn't get his €500 leather jacket.:(

wolfpawnat

Boombastic wrote: »

Also, I despair when I hear of children being brought to the pub for the afternoon after the mass, grand for a meal but it's hardly a treat for the child - more like for the adults :rolleyes:

I worked in bars, I used get sickened by kids getting taytos and drinks while the parents went mad on drink, but then again I also worked restaurants and hotels and other parents would ensure their children had lovely afternoons and drinking was kept to a min, both groups would have been of the same social background too. It is all down to the people themselves really.

DesperateDan

Plazaman wrote: »

FUNERALS : As a recluse, why should I pay for someones funeral who I've never met.
WASHING MACHINES : As a person with freshly washed clothes, whats wrong with the bath and a bit of Daz Powder ye lazy gits
BACK TO SCHOOL CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR : As a single person, why am I paying for the snotty nosed little feckers new pants and shoes that they'll have ruined within a week.
DIETARY ALLOWANCE : Gwan ye fat feckers and run it off
RENT ALLOWANCE : Aw yeah living in the lap of luxury off my dime

Hmm, all of those services are rather essential and clearly adverse to splurging out on dressing up a child for a religious ceremony.

Plazaman wrote: »

There is no system of tax redistribution anywhere in the world that will mean that an individuals tax payments will go specifically to areas that relate to them and their lifestyle/beliefs.

That's a contradiction: collective tax payments (including my individual tax) are going to Catholic ceremonies, a very specific area that relates to peoples lifestyle/beliefs

ejmaztec

DesperateDan wrote: »

Hmm, all of those services are rather essential and clearly adverse to splurging out on dressing up a child for a religious ceremony.



That's a contradiction: collective tax payments (including my individual tax) are going to Catholic ceremonies, a very specific area that relates to peoples lifestyle/beliefs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIuotFZnBtk

Ghost Buster

Plazaman wrote: »

As this money comes out of the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Budget, I (as a taxpayer) too am enraged at the following items SWA pays for.

FUNERALS : As a recluse, why should I pay for someones funeral who I've never met.
WASHING MACHINES : As a person with freshly washed clothes, whats wrong with the bath and a bit of Daz Powder ye lazy gits
BACK TO SCHOOL CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR : As a single person, why am I paying for the snotty nosed little feckers new pants and shoes that they'll have ruined within a week.
DIETARY ALLOWANCE : Gwan ye fat feckers and run it off
RENT ALLOWANCE : Aw yeah living in the lap of luxury off my dime

OK I may have gone over the top there, but I think the whole "as an atheist" thing doesn't make sense. You are an Irish Citizen first and foremost and most likely a decent human being and if fortunate enough to be a tax payer well at least you're in employment. There is no system of tax redistribution anywhere in the world that will mean that an individuals tax payments will go specifically to areas that relate to them and their lifestyle/beliefs.

Because burial costs, dirty linen, school uniforms etc exist .
EDIT!! Yes i know that first communion cost 'exist' but really they are optional. leaving a dead body above ground or uncremated is not!!!

Madam_X

Valetta wrote: »

As a man, I find it pretty depressing that the government hand out money to women on maternity benefit :rolleyes:

I know you're just drawing an analogy but it's not a fair one. One is obviously more of a requirement than the other.

wolfpawnat

Madam_X wrote: »

I know you're just drawing an analogy but it's not a fair one. One is obviously more of a requirement than another.

Also Mat Benefit is based on tax, an unemployed woman does not receive it to the best of my limited knowledge in that area.

KamiKazeKitten

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Agreed. If it is part of the second class curriculum and again for the confirmation in sixth class, how can we blame families for asking for financial aid when it is expected of them to do it.

No, it is not.
Religion doesn't have an official curriculum in primary schools, it's up to the individual school and their ethos. So Catholic schools have AliveO, Educate Together have Learn Together etc, but it's not a part of any state curriculum.

Pedant rant over and out.

wolfpawnat

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

No, it is not.
Religion doesn't have an official curriculum in primary schools, it's up to the individual school and their ethos. So Catholic schools have AliveO, Educate Together have Learn Together etc, but it's not a part of any state curriculum.

Pedant rant over and out.

Outside of the cities though I would wager a good 85% of schools are Catholic ones meaning it is part of most schools ethos.