Hugo Chavez has died

NinjaK

RIP, great leader.

fishy fishy

CucaFace wrote: »

I get all my information from actual Venezuelans who live here. I have lived with Venezuelan's here and have many friends from there.

thought so.....same story as the cubans in florida then.

CucaFace

fishy fishy wrote: »

CucaFace wrote: »

I get all my information from actual Venezuelans who live here. I have lived with Venezuelan's here and have many friends from there.

thought so.....same story as the cubans in florida then.

And I also thought so when I said you wouldn't be capable of commenting on the actual economic results of Chavez's reign.

And by the way, you really think Cuba is a good example of a country also?

fishy fishy

CucaFace wrote: »

fishy fishy wrote: »

And I also thought so when I said you wouldn't be capable of commenting on the actual economic results of Chavez's reign.

And by the way, you really think Cuba is a good example of a country also?

depends on ones perspective, doesn't it.

Lightbulb Sun

Balmed Out wrote: »

I remember he used have a big poster in every village saying "for Venezuela, for Chavez or death"

Lovely fellow

You lived in Venezuela then?

fishy fishy

Sean Penn: "Today the people of the United States lost a friend it never knew it had. And poor people around the world lost a champion,"

Oliver Stone: ''I mourn a great hero to the majority of his people and those who struggle throughout the world for a place[...]Hated by the entrenched classes, Hugo Chavez will live forever in history."

Balmed Out

I've been to Venezuela and there are plenty of poor people who don't support him. Overall Venezuelans are split 50 50.

CucaFace

fishy fishy wrote: »

CucaFace wrote: »

depends on ones perspective, doesn't it.

Yes and it also says a lot about somebody's intelligence really.

Seaneh

Having spent time in Venezuela the people I met who disliked Chavez tended to be from one of two camps.

They were were either white "Spanish" Venezuelans who resented that their former place as the upper class and privileged status in society was no longer a reality and their unused tillage land and abandoned plantations were being confiscated and sold to poor Negro e Indio (Black & Indian) famers and that so much government money was being spent on poor, brown people and not going into their families pockets any more.

Or they were evangelical Christians, usually members of "Iglesia Alianza Christian Y Misionera" aka The Christian and Missionary Alliance Church, a hardcore right wing conservative fundamentalist creationist organisation based in Colorado Springs, who bank roll the South American churches, "educate" the native leaders of the church and dictate their policy and doctrine from Colorado.


The vast majority of Negro e Indio people I met supported Chavez and believed their standards of living had been made immeasurably better since 1999.

speedboatchase

fishy fishy wrote: »

Sean Penn: "Today the people of the United States lost a friend it never knew it had. And poor people around the world lost a champion,"

Oliver Stone: ''I mourn a great hero to the majority of his people and those who struggle throughout the world for a place[...]Hated by the entrenched classes, Hugo Chavez will live forever in history."

Ugh, those guys.

space_man

the scenes of over indulgent "grief" and "mourning" from Venezeula are so reminiscent of North Korea.

what is it with these communist dictatorships that they feel the need to stage such demonstrations?

fishy fishy

space_man wrote: »

the scenes of over indulgent "grief" and "mourning" from Venezeula are so reminiscent of North Korea.

what is it with these communist dictatorships that they feel the need to stage such demonstrations?

you really should read up on your history space-man

and the fact that cucaface has liked your post doesn't fill me with confidence that he knows anything about it either.

tritium

space_man wrote: »

the scenes of over indulgent "grief" and "mourning" from Venezeula are so reminiscent of North Korea.

what is it with these communist dictatorships that they feel the need to stage such demonstrations?

Lol, because the civilised and democratic west would never have something like that:

Princess Diana
Ronald Reagan
The Queen Mother
(add deceased statesman/ woman as appropriate)

Charlie Haughey got live tv coverage of his state funeral and a quarter of a million people tuned in (Although a fair few probably just wanted to make sure he was dead)

Hell, even Jade Goody got the national mourning treatment from a clap happy media and public

Lightbulb Sun

space_man wrote: »

the scenes of over indulgent "grief" and "mourning" from Venezeula are so reminiscent of North Korea.

what is it with these communist dictatorships that they feel the need to stage such demonstrations?

Comparing North Korea to Chavez in Venezuela is just plain misinformed.

space_man

tritium wrote: »

Lol, because the civilised and democratic west would never have something like that:

Princess Diana
Ronald Reagan
The Queen Mother
(add deceased statesman/ woman as appropriate)

Hell, even Jade Goody got the national mourning treatment from a clap happy media and public

the difference is whenever one of these people snuffs it, there is a substantial proportion of the public only too willing to slate the deceased.
of course you'll never get to hear any such criticism/attempt at portraying such a balanced opinion of Chavvy.
:eek:

fishy fishy

space_man wrote: »

the difference is whenever one of these people snuffs it, there is a substantial proportion of the public only too willing to slate the deceased.
of course you'll never get to hear any such criticism/attempt at portraying such a balanced opinion of Chavvy.
:eek:

well comparing him/venezuela to a communist dictatorship doesn't balance things out space-man - it only makes you look like you haven't a clue about him or anything about him.

Banjo String

space_man wrote: »

what is it with these communist dictatorships that they feel the need to stage such demonstrations?

Venezuela is a not a communist country. It's a federal republic, with a multiparty democratic political system.

Sheesh.

tritium

space_man wrote: »

the difference is whenever one of these people snuffs it, there is a substantial proportion of the public only too willing to slate the deceased.
of course you'll never get to hear any such criticism/attempt at portraying such a balanced opinion of Chavvy.
:eek:

Given that the man is barely cold there seems to be a pretty healthy level of criticism coming out

I don't recall the BBC falling over themselves to produce a Diana/ Ronnie/ Queen Mummie was a kant expose in the hours after their death.

Maybe they just feel the dead and their loved ones deserve some dignity and respect......

space_man

tritium wrote: »

Given that the man is barely cold there seems to be a pretty healthy level of criticism coming out

I don't recall the BBC falling over themselves to produce a Diana/ Ronnie/ Queen Mummie was a kant expose in the hours after their death.

Maybe they just feel the dead and their loved ones deserve some dignity and respect......

why bring the Queen or Princess Diana into this?
you may as well compare the aftermath of Elvis' or Michael Jackson's death.
Reagan is an entirely different situation as he had executive powers.

personally i would love to hear from those in Caracas opposed to this dictator. but somehow i dont think they'll be let within an asses' roar of a mic/camera. that's the difference.

fishy fishy

space_man wrote: »

why bring the Queen or Princess Diana into this?
you may as well compare the aftermath of Elvis' or Michael Jackson's death.
Reagan is an entirely different situation as he had executive powers.

personally i would love to hear from those in Caracas opposed to this dictator. but somehow i dont think they'll be let within an asses' roar of a mic/camera. that's the difference.

I would say you are quite wrong there again space-man. I would imagine FOX and SKY will be falling over themselves looking for the opposers to find stories to spoon fed the masses. We've seen them do it before - why would this be any different.

Also, using the word "dictator" all the time is not doing you any favors.

Fizman

Mendozaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

space_man

fishy fishy wrote: »

I would say you are quite wrong there again space-man. I would imagine FOX and SKY will be falling over themselves looking for the opposers to find stories to spoon fed the masses. We've seen them do it before - why would this be any different.

absolutely. but what do you think would happen any Caracan (i think that's what they're called?) who was brave/foolish enough to speak out?

fishy fishy

space_man wrote: »

absolutely. but what do you think would happen any Caracan (i think that's what they're called?) who was brave/foolish enough to speak out?

space_Man - you really need to do a bit of research into Venezuela, and Chavaz. You seem to have a "north Korean-esque" notion in your head which is completely and utterly inaccurate. and you and cucaface seem utterly confused to be honest. If you knew anything at all about Venezuela (no matter what viewpoint you had) you would know that your above statement is nonsense.

Also I think the word you are looking for is VENEZUELAN - that will take in the whole of Venezuala rather than just the people of Caracas.

robp

An amusing take on this.

GUARDIAN readers were today in mourning for a man who would have banned the Guardian if it was in Venezuela.

The people's champion was very fond of being agreed with

The death of President Hugo Chavez has robbed Britain’s left wing of an heroic figure whose bravely authoritarian regime stood up to America and journalism.

Julian Cook, from Finsbury Park, said: “He was sort of democratically elected and in many ways Venezuela was kind of almost a free country. I’ll miss him so much.”

Emma Bradford, a level six Guardian reader from Stevenage, added: “He introduced free healthcare and free education and if you have those two things then why on earth would you need a free press?

“Yes, we have those things in Britain and we have a free press, but – for our sins – we are much more complex than the noble Latin American peasants.”

She added: “I only use Venezuelan petrol in my Saab because it has been properly taxed.”

Tom Booker, from Hackney, added: “Journalists would have had a much easier time in Venezuela if they had just agreed with President Chavez. If you read his autobiography you’d realise that he was actually very nice.

“The oil tax paid for precious, beautiful things like schools, hospitals, secret police and the wildly popular TV show Stop What You Are Doing and Listen to the President.”

Meanwhile, tributes were also paid to Chavez by the usual arseholes.

Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/guardian-readers-pay-tribute-to-man-who-would-have-banned-the-guardian-2013030661944

admiralofthefleet

how long will it take the americans to invade for the oil liberate the people

fishy fishy

robp wrote: »

An amusing take on this.


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/guardian-readers-pay-tribute-to-man-who-would-have-banned-the-guardian-2013030661944

they forgot Nelson Mandela (conveniently)

CucaFace

fishy fishy wrote: »

space_Man - you really need to do a bit of research into Venezuela, and Chavaz. You seem to have a "north Korean-esque" notion in your head which is completely and utterly inaccurate. and you and cucaface seem utterly confused to be honest. If you knew anything at all about Venezuela (no matter what viewpoint you had) you would know that your above statement is nonsense.

Fishy fishy you are clearly one of these nonsensical socialists (probably a sine feiner no doubt) who cannot speak about facts or answer any direct questions, because you either don't know the answers or know that the answers prove your whole point complete wrong.

You are correct, Venezuela is not like N.Korea, and people are free up to a certain point to speak out, but Chavez also had a track record of shutting down TV stations that were not on his side.

He may not have been an out and out dictator, but he was heading that way as he could see the masses were turning against him as his pathetic economical practices were destroying the country.

He made it practically impossible for example for any overseas Venezuelan to vote in the last election as he knew they would be voting against him.

And unlike you I get my information from people who have actually lived under this guys regime, but perhaps you know more about this then them?

And these are normal people who work here as waiters, shop assistants, not the elite you and other socialists would like to suggest.

frfintanstack

CucaFace wrote: »

I get all my information from actual Venezuelans who live here. I have lived with Venezuelan's here and have many friends from there.

How about commenting on the dire state of their economy? How can you defend a country like that when they have more recourses then most other countries in the world?

You know you can’t even buy that currency and those living there can’t buy another currency without applying to the Govt t get permission and then only being allowed to get €900 worth of Euros.

Instead of saying nothing like you just did maybe you can actually respond to all these facts about Venezuela and what Chavez has done there??

Do all venezuelans agree with your mates?

seems he won a few elections in his time so I suppose not....as well as having a popular uprising prevent his ousting by a military coup supported by the US.

Rates of poverty are lower now in Venezuela now than when he took over...fact

He's not perfect but when you see what corruption and exploitation of the masses by the privileged few were there before him he's certainly an improvement. Unfortunately it takes a long time to correct generations of exploitation

tritium

space_man wrote: »

why bring the Queen or Princess Diana into this?
you may as well compare the aftermath of Elvis' or Michael Jackson's death.
Reagan is an entirely different situation as he had executive powers.

personally i would love to hear from those in Caracas opposed to this dictator. but somehow i dont think they'll be let within an asses' roar of a mic/camera. that's the difference.

Your comment was about the staged shows of grief that are manufactured in certain countries. I gave you a perfectly valid first world equivalence. I'm not sure what the executive powers argument has to do with it (apart from trying to keep a rather tenuous argument together), but just for good measure I gave you a couple of examples to cover that too.

Regardless of your view on Chavez, given that he was an elected leader the use of the term dictator is frankly misleading. Given that it's been noted repeatedly during this thread I'll assume it's deliberately so. Chavez didn't exactly encourage dissent but there is a fully functional opposition nonetheless.

mike65

robp wrote: »

An amusing take on this.


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/guardian-readers-pay-tribute-to-man-who-would-have-banned-the-guardian-2013030661944

The Guardian are actually running a live blog on Chavez coffin run through Caracas

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/06/hugo-chavez-death-reaction-live

He's passing someone in a green hat as I type.