Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

spookwoman

py2006 wrote: »

Very well said Wibbs, I have brought this up in conversation before about men more likely to be attacked and physically assaulted while out late at night etc. Some dismissed it as utter nonsense and others disregarded it was its not women perpetrating such violence. "yea but thats men..."

It was almost like it was more acceptable and a issue that didn't need looking into because the the perpetrator and victim was male.

The "men and boys need to be taught how to behave" is a head shaker. Feck sake most were raised by women.

Wibbs

maybe

spookwoman wrote: »

The "men and boys need to be taught how to behave" is a head shaker. Feck sake most were raised by women.

That's the real head shaker alright. It's as if in the "feminist" universe men grow up is some kind of social and cultural isolation away from mothers, sisters and women peers and same have no influence on them, but other men magically do? And it seems most of those, or a large proportion of fathers, brothers and male peers are pushing "toxic masculinity" with zero input from the other 50% of the people in the world.

Hell, we've all been in situations as participants, or observers in our adolescent years where guys were revved up to do silly risk taking things for the attention of women, and/or with their approval. In that age range who's more likely to get more attention from women; the quiet studious mousey bloke, or the extrovert nutbag doing wheelies on his motorbike? That paints a cartoonish picture granted, but there's much truth in it too. Men and women influence each other and do so throughout life.

py2006

spookwoman wrote: »

The "men and boys need to be taught how to behave" is a head shaker. Feck sake most were raised by women.

I am not sure about the psychology behind men that make the decision to go out at night time and randomly assault a woman (and men) but the suggestion on the radio earlier was ludicrous.

It kind of reminded me of: (skip to 0:30)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ

cms88

py2006 wrote: »

Very well said Wibbs, I have brought this up in conversation before about men more likely to be attacked and physically assaulted while out late at night etc. Some dismissed it as utter nonsense and others disregarded it as its not women perpetrating such violence. "yea but thats men..."

It was almost like it was more acceptable and a issue that didn't need looking into because the the perpetrator and victim was male.

This falls under the ''men can't be raped'' logic.

imo part of the reason this i being pushed so much is because the professorial full time outraged will be out of a job without making an issue of these things.

py2006

https://twitter.com/Suffragentleman/status/1370013575696310282?s=20

iptba

py2006 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Suffragentleman/status/1370013575696310282?s=20

"and discrimination of all kinds would be lessened" in the same sentence that she is calling for men but not women to have a curfew :rolleyes:

Wibbs

maybe

iptba wrote: »

"and discrimination of all kinds would be lessened" in the same sentence that she is calling for men but not women to have a curfew :rolleyes:

These type of ideologues no matter what the politic or credo suffer from a few personality faults; neuroticism with a large order of hysteria, an irony bypass and a total absence of any self awareness.

py2006

I've posted about this elsewhere (prob shouldn't have).


This is another case for the imagine if the rolls were reversed etc

TBH, after a year of rotary lockdown, and having to listen to this crap in the media, or online... The signs are all there.. it's going to get a lot worse before it gets to be any kind of better.

Yeah. I'm done. I'll be jetting back to Asia for another decade methinks. Very little of this rubbish gaining traction there, thankfully. (They've got their own problems, but still...)

ancapailldorcha

maybe

Wibbs wrote: »

These type of ideologues no matter what the politic or credo suffer from a few personality faults; neuroticism with a large order of hysteria, an irony bypass and a total absence of any self awareness.

Her party were once very vocal about reforming the House of Lords. They seem to have gone quiet on it for some reason.

Must be nice to be able to spew bigotry and know your job is safe, even if you decide not to turn up to work.

jk23

[Deleted User] wrote: »

TBH, after a year of rotary lockdown, and having to listen to this crap in the media, or online... The signs are all there.. it's going to get a lot worse before it gets to be any kind of better.

Yeah. I'm done. I'll be jetting back to Asia for another decade methinks. Very little of this rubbish gaining traction there, thankfully. (They've got their own problems, but still...)

I often wondered what feminism is like in Asian countries, are they as vocal and unhappy as western women seem to be?....

jk23

jk23 wrote: »

I often wondered what feminism is like in Asian countries, are they as vocal and unhappy as western women seem to be?....

Not really. Oh, it exists. In student bodies, and some people who were educated in the West, but there's little actual support for it, because they've seen what it's done to the West. TBH, there's probably more practical equality going on there, than here. You'll see women working on construction sites, collecting rubbish, in the Police and military in large numbers. All the while, those women who want to opt out and be "kept" by a man, can easily do so. Little to no judgement about such choices.

It's a very male dominated society, with inklings of equality... and little interest in Western feminism, except as a romantic idea. Still, it's a very unfair society to both genders, applied differently. It's just easier to see how the elite (both genders) manage to live better.

Wibbs

maybe

Deleted User wrote: »

Still, it's a very unfair society to both genders, applied differently. It's just easier to see how the elite (both genders) manage to live better.

While the average person of either gender squabbles over what's left over, as it's always been throughout history, no matter what "ism" has been in play. No "elite conspiracy" required either. It's just a resource thing for the most part. When "feminists" witter on about how women had no rights in the past, they're a) innacurate and b) ignore, or are ignorant of the realities that the average woman and man had bugger all, they just had slightly different bugger alls.

iptba

(UK)

To mark International Women’s Day, the government is launching a 12-week call for evidence to better understand women’s experiences of the health and care system

All women are urged to share their experiences to form the basis of a new Women’s Health Strategy

The strategy will set an ambitious and positive new agenda to improve health and wellbeing and ensure health services are meeting the needs of women

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-call-for-evidence-to-improve-health-and-wellbeing-of-women-in-england
---
Gender-specific strategies can be useful to work on specific issues. But I don't recall a similar call with regards to men's experiences of the health and care system. Men tend to visit their GP less often and sometimes later with health conditions.

CageWager

jk23 wrote: »

I often wondered what feminism is like in Asian countries, are they as vocal and unhappy as western women seem to be?....

In my experience living and dating in Asia, the women have far less “equality” (as measured by such strange metrics like board seats, CEOs etc.) but they seem so much happier than Western women. I can’t stress enough how feminism just simply isn’t on their radar, they just don’t need it. I think the media/feminist organisations on this side of the world have whipped women into such a frenzy that they are constantly angry and bitter with society, ironically the most equal society in the history of the planet.

Asia is certainly male dominated, but why is that necessarily a bad thing? In my relationship, I am the head of the household and I bring resources and other traits to the party. I lead the relationship and make sensible decisions for the good of the family (protect, provide etc.). The missus brings a variety of traits that are complementary - we are not in competition. We are a partnership.

When I bring up feminism and Western women in conversation, she can’t understand why they “try so hard to be men”. She can’t understand why they choose to work long hours in hard jobs and forgo having kids and spending time with family. I know Western women would look down their nose at her but I see a confident, caring women with a great family and lifestyle. Compare that to the bitter, anger-fuelled Karen working in some ultra competitive finance job in London with no family, no free time, no hobbies and I know who the smart one is. (Hint: its not the MBA).

In the west we have forsaken simple happiness for a false god of “equality”, whatever the f that means these days.

Pawwed Rig

CageWager wrote: »

In my experience living and dating in Asia, the women have far less “equality” (as measured by such strange metrics like board seats, CEOs etc.) but they seem so much happier than Western women. I can’t stress enough how feminism just simply isn’t on their radar, they just don’t need it. I think the media/feminist organisations on this side of the world have whipped women into such a frenzy that they are constantly angry and bitter with society, ironically the most equal society in the history of the planet.
.

I wouldn't say a frenzy. There are a few very vocal ones frothing at the mouth but the majority of women just get on with there life as normal and equate feminism with actual equality

CageWager

CageWager wrote: »

In my experience living and dating in Asia, the women have far less “equality” (as measured by such strange metrics like board seats, CEOs etc.) but they seem so much happier than Western women. I can’t stress enough how feminism just simply isn’t on their radar, they just don’t need it. I think the media/feminist organisations on this side of the world have whipped women into such a frenzy that they are constantly angry and bitter with society, ironically the most equal society in the history of the planet.

I think a big part is that traditional roles are elevated in Asian cultures. The mother, the wife, etc.. all have a very important status. And TBH considering the shouting and browbeating that happens in the streets, women are very capable to taking their husband to task when they want to. Social proof, or community respect is incredibly important, which gives women an important card to play should they wish.

There's also the aspect that while officially women never really receive much authority, in private they can. Beautiful women rule. In the West, it' almost seen as something dirty for a woman to use their beauty for favors, or a better standard of living. We all know it's happening, but when it's spoken about, there's a judgment being made. I find Asians are far more practical about this. It is what it is.

Asia is certainly male dominated, but why is that necessarily a bad thing? In my relationship, I am the head of the household and I bring resources and other traits to the party. I lead the relationship and make sensible decisions for the good of the family (protect, provide etc.). The missus brings a variety of traits that are complementary - we are not in competition. We are a partnership.

I don't see male dominated as being automatically a bad thing. It is a waste of resources, since women are often ignored here.

Male dominated in public but female dominated in private. That's what China is like. Oh, there's a wide variety of relationships going on... but, in many cases, women rule their husbands. I'll give an example. A foreign friend of mine is married to a Chinese woman, who when she became pregnant, she arranged a "second wife" for him to have sex with. She didn't want him cheating with women of a low status, and out of her control. So, she found a woman who was available, made the deal, spent their money to make it happen, and thereafter, he has two wives. His legal wife is his primary wife, and his mistress is his second wife. Chosen by his wife. It cracks me up every time I think about it.

Imagine that happening in the West... you'd have picket lines of feminists.

When I bring up feminism and Western women in conversation, she can’t understand why they “try so hard to be men”. She can’t understand why they choose to work long hours in hard jobs and forgo having kids and spending time with family. I know Western women would look down their nose at her but I see a confident, caring women with a great family and lifestyle. Compare that to the bitter, anger-fuelled Karen working in some ultra competitive finance job in London with no family, no free time, no hobbies and I know who the smart one is. (Hint: its not the MBA).

In the west we have forsaken simple happiness for a false god of “equality”, whatever the f that means these days.

Exactly. Asian women love being women. Most of them (not all) don't want to be men. They don't want to work professionally. They're proud to be mothers. They're proud to be good wives. They know their husbands aren't perfect, and accept that most are cheating bastards (although Asian women often cheat more). All the same, there's a greater degree of balance in Asia about being a man or being a woman. More acceptance of a natural order, which they're content with.

CageWager

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll give an example. A foreign friend of mine is married to a Chinese woman, who when she became pregnant, she arranged a "second wife" for him to have sex with. She didn't want him cheating with women of a low status, and out of her control. So, she found a woman who was available, made the deal, spent their money to make it happen, and thereafter, he has two wives. His legal wife is his primary wife, and his mistress is his second wife. Chosen by his wife. It cracks me up every time I think about it.

Imagine that happening in the West... you'd have picket lines of feminists.

I’ll be mentioning that to herself

Rodin

Most women are sexist.

py2006

Wow, social media is riddled with women vilifying anybody claiming "not all men". Even going as far as to claiming they are part of the problem.

Wibbs

maybe

Rodin wrote: »

Most women are sexist.

Eh... a blanket statement like that needs a helluva lot of evidence to back it up, otherwise I'm calling nonsense. Actually, I'm just calling it bloody nonsense and as daft as any so called "feminist" raving on twitter.

Wibbs

maybe

CageWager wrote: »

Compare that to the bitter, anger-fuelled Karen working in some ultra competitive finance job in London with no family, no free time, no hobbies and I know who the smart one is. (Hint: its not the MBA).

It's fine to raise points but dial right back on the Karen stereotyping please. It's hardly helpful to utilise some of the same daftness that often comes from the other side in this.

Wibbs

maybe

py2006 wrote: »

Wow, social media is riddled with women vilifying anybody claiming "not all men". Even going as far as to claiming they are part of the problem.

The standard operational fare in any of the identity politics oppressor/oppressed narratives. Such positions don't actually want solutions they just want a rant and to feel part of the "correct" community.

py2006

It is interesting that the finger of blame is pointing at the 99% of men who wouldn't come remotely close to harming anyone.

The way I see it is if you are going to point fingers at men who are complete strangers to those that cause harm, why aren't you pointing the fingers at their own mothers who raised them?

FintanMcluskey

py2006 wrote: »

Wow, social media is riddled with women vilifying anybody claiming "not all men". Even going as far as to claiming they are part of the problem.

I’ve just seen some of this absolute scutter.

All men are wrong it seems, I think the implication is that all men knowingly ignore/encourage this stuff

Masculinity has never been so vilified.

Ironically it’s masculinity that can best help protect the vulnerable when needed

py2006

py2006 wrote: »

It is interesting that the finger of blame is pointing at the 99% of men who wouldn't come remotely close to harming anyone.

The way I see it is if you are going to point fingers at men who are complete strangers to those that cause harm, why aren't you pointing the fingers at their own mothers who raised them?

They are putting it all on fathers, brothers, male peer groups etc. Totally ignoring their own roll as mothers, sisters, wives, friends, colleagues etc.

I've often seen the local violent hot head who seemed to be out beating someone up every other weekend suffer no consequences from male and female friends. They never seemed to have much difficulty attracting women either.

Pawwed Rig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They are putting it all on fathers, brothers, male peer groups etc. Totally ignoring their own roll as mothers, sisters, wives, friends, colleagues etc.

It is the normal paradox you see from feminist media types. They assume that women lack any agency or ability to influence those around them while on the other hand write about how powerful women are.
It doesn't make an ounce of sense for the most part.

H3llR4iser

Deleted User wrote: »

They are putting it all on fathers, brothers, male peer groups etc. Totally ignoring their own roll as mothers, sisters, wives, friends, colleagues etc.

I've often seen thelocal violent hot headwho seemed to be out beating someone up every other weekend suffer no consequences from male and female friends. They never seemed to have much difficulty attracting women either.

And, it's important to specify, their victims are men in the vast majority of the cases, but as victims, they don't count.

The double standards are insane, even funny if one takes the right step back. There was a thread on current affairs about how 97% of British women experienced harassment or sexual assault; A figure I don't struggle to believe at all, because quite simply - scumbags are everywhere.

Pretty much every single woman I know has had, at least, something shouted at her from a passing van or some incident of a similar type. So even doubting it happens is daft and nobody in their right mind would think it's not annoying nor a problem.

And yet, nobody conducts a similar survey about how many men have been bullied, assaulted, beaten, confronted, sized up or ganged up for no reason whatsoever - because the result of that would be, absolutely, without doubt, 100%. And I'd bet anything these are two faces of the same issue - the "local violent hot head" (love the definition, BTW!) would be, in most cases, the same guy who shouts obscenities to a woman who passes by.

cms88

py2006 wrote: »

It is interesting that the finger of blame is pointing at the 99% of men who wouldn't come remotely close to harming anyone.

The way I see it is if you are going to point fingers at men who are complete strangers to those that cause harm, why aren't you pointing the fingers at their own mothers who raised them?

It's funny becuase in the most part you're almost led to believe that children only have mothers. Yet if it' something bad to do with children it very quickly become about their parents..

H3llR4iser

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And, it's important to specify, their victims are men in the vast majority of the cases, but as victims, they don't count.

The double standards are insane, even funny if one takes the right step back. There was a thread on current affairs about how 97% of British women experienced harassment or sexual assault; A figure I don't struggle to believe at all, because quite simply - scumbags are everywhere.

Pretty much every single woman I know has had, at least, something shouted at her from a passing van or some incident of a similar type. So even doubting it happens is daft and nobody in their right mind would think it's not annoying nor a problem.

Sure, it happens a lot, but scale is important. How often will a look be interpreted as something offensive? A guy asking if a woman is single, becomes a grave offense? A wink when passing goods over a counter, becomes a indication that the guy is a serial killer.

I can remember having a conversation with a group of people about this subject, where the women and men, were talking about what they've "done" and the reactions received. Quite often, an innocent remark is completely blown out of proportion. That can be a guy thinking a woman is interested in her, when she's simply being polite... or a woman getting weird when a guy admits he's not attracted to her.

There is so much exaggeration in todays world with regards to interpersonal behavior.. and a strong inclination to find the more negative interpretations. Personally, I suspect it's because complaining, or commenting on the negative behavior of the opposite gender, builds a connection with others who might feel the same. In a world that is increasingly becoming disconnected, many people crave the social proofing, and sympathy, that making such comments can elicit.

And yet, nobody conducts a similar survey about how many men have been bullied, assaulted, beaten, confronted, sized up or ganged up for no reason whatsoever - because the result of that would be, absolutely, without doubt, 100%. And I'd bet anything these are two faces of the same issue - the "local violent hot head" (love the definition, BTW!) would be, in most cases, the same guy who shouts obscenities to a woman who passes by.

TBH I think it would be interesting to ask these Ahole guys how they became that way.. In my own experience, from 'players', and friends I know, many of them treat women the way that they were treated.

There is so little consideration for how women treat men (dating, common conversations, breakups, etc), and how that might lead to Ahole behavior in the future. It's like the area of victim blaming. Whenever it relates to women, their responsibility is superficially acknowledged, but any suggestion of something greater than that is met with condemnation, and exaggeration. The same thing happens here. While it's acknowledged that some women do wrong by guys, there's little appreciation for the deep hurts that women often cause (intentionally, or otherwise). The focus is firmly fixated on external considerations.