International Women's Day

Legs.Eleven

spurious wrote: »

Well, she doesn't think so, Two days to be seen by a specialist in Latvia, versus at least a six month wait here, but anyway, let's argue about what the politics are, or were.


God help us that someone might have had a good day and feel good about themselves.

I'm talking about women treated as second class citizens and being placated on one day of the year with flowers, not waiting lists to see specialists.


Nothing wrong with having a good day and enjoying yourself but were talking about the meaning behind it it's it's relevant to the thread.

Anyway, agree to disagree.

clairefontaine

PandaX9 wrote: »

I agree, why get so political about something that is, for most people, just a day filled with sentiment and the chance to relax?

For example, I've seen that in Russia, well, everywhere outside of "perfect Moscow" it seema, women have it tough. All people have it tough there, but women have it worse because after an equally hard working day, they have to make dinner and clean the house and be nice and lovely and blah. It's just very tense a lot of the time for a vast amount of women.

However, the 8th of march provides them with a lovely feeling of appreciation for the whole day. My grandmother was bombarded by phone calls all day, some from people she hadn't seen in 40+ years. It's nice to feel appreciated, particularly for a lovely elderly lady like her.

Is that really so awful?

Maybe the commercial side is being drawn out in some parts, but I know that for most people that celebrate it, be they Eastern European or not, myself included, it's just a day full of "it's the thought that counts" and if some people want to bestow gifts, reduce prices in goodwill - I think that's just an extra bonus.

If I were her, I would much prefer to forgo the annual gift of flowers in exchange for not having to do all the domestic chores and be nice and lovely all the time.

Good God I would seriously fail being Russian.

Legs.Eleven

PandaX9 wrote: »

I agree, why get so political about something that is, for most people, just a day filled with sentiment and the chance to relax?

For example, I've seen that in Russia, well, everywhere outside of "perfect Moscow" it seema, women have it tough. All people have it tough there, but women have it worse because after an equally hard working day, they have to make dinner and clean the house and be nice and lovely and blah. It's just very tense a lot of the time for a vast amount of women.

However, the 8th of march provides them with a lovely feeling of appreciation for the whole day. My grandmother was bombarded by phone calls all day, some from people she hadn't seen in 40+ years. It's nice to feel appreciated, particularly for a lovely elderly lady like her.

Is that really so awful?

Maybe the commercial side is being drawn out in some parts, but I know that for most people that celebrate it, be they Eastern European or not, myself included, it's just a day full of "it's the thought that counts" and if some people want to bestow gifts, reduce prices in goodwill - I think that's just an extra bonus.

No, it's not "awful" (who used the word awful?) but surely it's a shallow gesture if nothing is being done otherwise to change the circumstances of these women. This day could be used constructively to highlight their plight but instead they're given flowers.

All I'm suggesting is that one day out of the year is used to highlight the struggle of millions of women all over the world. Giving flowers solves nothing. It's not "awful" but it is shallow and meaningless if nothing is done otherwise.

Legs.Eleven

clairefontaine wrote: »

If I were her, I would much prefer to forgo the annual gift of flowers in exchange for not having to do all the domestic chores and be nice and lovely all the time.

Good God I would seriously fail being Russian.

Feckin' flowers. "Tomorrow you'll continue to work like a slave but for now, here's a bunch of flowers." :rolleyes:

PandaX9

clairefontaine wrote: »

If I were her, I would much prefer to forgo the annual gift of flowers in exchange for not having to do all the domestic chores and be nice and lovely all the time.

Good God I would seriously fail being Russian.

But like, I don't see how that's relevant to the day. She can't very well stand up and go "right **** you culture! I'm not going to do what you want anymore!"

And honestly, she doesn't see it that way. She's been living that whole way her life, for her it's just the done thing. When I look at her life as an outsider, yeah it annoys me and I think the same way as you, but as depressing as it is, there's not much that can be done about it. In her case at least.. You'd really need to overhaul everything about the economic and social structures for that to happen.

She likes the way she lives.
Of course, it's not as cushy as some people have it but why bother getting caught up in it? I like that she can savour one particular day apart from her birthday where she feels happy and appreciated for all the hard work she's done. Because honestly, I think that if many women didn't get that appreciation, at least on the one day designated for it, their lives would seem so much more trying.

In short, she doesn't bother thinking about the 8th of march and trying to improve it by changing it into a day of recognition of the troubles of women the world over, because she has other things to worry about and likes the day the way it is.

Da Shins Kelly

I was surprised to find that in my town here in Spain, it's kind of a big deal too. The bars all closed early and there was a march through the city in support of women's rights. It was a nice sight.

Legs.Eleven

PandaX9 wrote: »

But like, I don't see how that's relevant to the day. She can't very well stand up and go "right **** you culture! I'm not going to do what you want anymore!"

And honestly, she doesn't see it that way. She's been living that whole way her life, for her it's just the done thing. When I look at her life as an outsider, yeah it annoys me and I think the same way as you, but as depressing as it is, there's not much that can be done about it.

She likes the way she lives.
Of course, it's not as cushy as some people have it but why bother getting caught up in it? I like that she can savour one particular day apart from her birthday where she feels happy and appreciated for all the hard work she's done. Because honestly, I think that if many women didn't get that appreciation, at least on the one day designated for it, their lives would seem so much more trying.

Something can always be done about it. Look at women in the Western World and what standing up and highlighting what was wrong with the situation did for us!

Don't ever believe nothing can be done. Nothing can be done if no one tries. That's what "they" would like you to believe.

PandaX9

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Something can always be done about it. Look at women in the Western World and what standing up and highlighting what was wrong with the situation did for us!

Don't ever believe nothing can be done. Nothing can be done if no one tries. That's what "they" would like you to believe.

No I know but if you've ever been to some areas in, again I'll use Russia as an example, that are outside of the metropolis that is Moscow you'll see how deep the corruption and injustice runs. You'd literally have to overhaul the entire structures of society and economics in place there.

Which is why I feel this has little relevance to the celebration of the 8th march as it is a very complex topic in itself but I do understand what you're saying

Legs.Eleven

PandaX9 wrote: »

No I know but if you've ever been to some areas in, again I'll use Russia as an example, that are outside of the metropolis that is Moscow you'll see how deep the corruption and injustice runs. You'd literally have to overhaul the entire structures of society and economics in place there.

Which is why I feel this has little relevance to the celebration of the 8th march as it is a very complex topic in itself but I do understand what you're saying

I can only imagine.

The 8th has become an international day to highlight the struggle of women millions of women all over the world and I think that's a good thing. Just seems a bit mad if the struggle is being made known to women like me who lives in a relatively equal society (Spain) but not to those women who are actually in that situation themselves.

I'm not saying this tradition is a bad thing necessarily so perhaps a separate day from this day should be decided upon so the two traditions don't clash as they seem worlds apart.

I understand the situation is complex but that doesn't mean giving up on it completely. We have to start somewhere. Look at Pussy Riot - without their bravery I'd never have looked into how tough life is for people there. Once highlighted, action can be taken. The revolution has to start with the people living there but sometimes you don't know just how bad things believing your life is the norm the world over without it being pointed out to you.

Perhaps a separate day is needed then so as not to clash with their celebration.

fits

From my perspective. Finland is a great place to live and work no matter what gender you are. I appreciated the small gesture from my employer. I didn't find the day commercial in anyway. I enjoyed reading articles online about gender roles in society. I thought a little bit about parts of the world where women do not have equality. I looked at this map about political rights on the guardian website. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/datablog/interactive/2013/mar/08/international-womens-day-political-rights
I remembered that women own 1% of property in the world.

I do not feel in any way, that accepting a yellow rose from my employer took away from the day, if anything it added to it.

Morag

I had an awesome weekend going to events and spending time with family.
One of my friends shared this on another socail network.

Y the last man standing is a scifi comic about what would happen if all the male humans on the planet bar 1 were do die suddenly

James Desborough wrote:

Digging out some stats for a chum on Twitter. Stats from Y the Last Man. These are a decade old, but should still be helpful.

If a plague or event effectively wiped out men:

48% of the world population would be gone.
495 of the Fortune 500 CEOs are gone.
99% of landowners are dead.
95% of commercial pilots, drivers and ship captains are gone. Mass transit of supplies becomes virtually impossible.
92% of incarcerated, violent criminals are gone.
99% of all mechanics, electricians and construction workers are dead. Maintaining the infrastructure of society becomes virtually impossible.
51% of the global agricultural work force is still alive.
Until recently women in many nations didn't pull frontline duty or gain combat experience. Exceptions are Spain, Germany, Australia, Norway and Sweden. Israel has the most militarily trained women and overnight would become a military superpower.
85% of government representatives are dead.
The Catholic clergy are gone.
The Islamic clergy are gone.
The Orthodox Jewish clergy are gone.

You're looking at a rapid loss of power, infrastructure, construction. Women with those skills would become immensely important and powerful post whatever disaster you care to think of.

Most nations would be militarily vulnerable and those that maintain any sort of military/political cohesion and capability may solve their problems by invading their more chaotic neighbours to confiscate fuel/supplies. Don't tell me women wouldn't do that, because Thatcher.

Power stations would likely have to be shut down - though with industry cut back there'd be less demand for power anyway. Whether there'd be enough women to run a few, choice nuclear plants and whether they could get where they needed to be is in question.

There'd be plenty of food, but getting it where it needs to be is going to be difficult. True, half the population has gone, but you only have 5% of the transportation capacity. Cities are likely to get hit BAD, especially once the looters run out of things to loot. Female gangs in urban areas will suddenly be without opposition or any effective police presence, so could run wild.

Men dominate the very top and very bottom of society in industrialised nations and that would present a huge, huge problem with loss of both infrastructure and the societal base.

Morag

If you missed the feminist walking tour some of the talks at the stops have been recorded.

and you can find more on youtube as they go up.

Ambersky

I saw this trailer online and thought it looked really interesting and thought I would post it here.

GIRL RISING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJsvklXhYaE