EA and Micro-Transactions

nesf

Varik wrote: »

Apple have to payout after getting sued for them and not clearly presenting the costs and some kids spending a load.

Was it sued? What I remember is some parent making a complaint to Apple after their kid spent $300 or something on the Smurf Village app and Apple refunding it without a problem and releasing a press release for people telling them how to disable in-app purchases in games on iOS. The issue was normally you have to sign in to buy something in an app but if the parent had signed in before there was a 10-15 minute window where you didn't have to sign in to buy things, it wasn't that the parent in question didn't know there were micro-transactions in the game, it was that he thought his 8 year old wouldn't be able to buy anything because she didn't know the account password.

Technically I think Apple could have the told the parent to feck off. It would have been very bad press though.

Penn

EA Sports... It's not all in the game unless you pay for it

Canis Lupus

nesf wrote: »

Was it sued? What I remember is some parent making a complaint to Apple after their kid spent $300 or something on the Smurf Village app and Apple refunding it without a problem and releasing a press release for people telling them how to disable in-app purchases in games on iOS. The issue was normally you have to sign in to buy something in an app but if the parent had signed in before there was a 10-15 minute window where you didn't have to sign in to buy things, it wasn't that the parent in question didn't know there were micro-transactions in the game, it was that he thought his 8 year old wouldn't be able to buy anything because she didn't know the account password.

Technically I think Apple could have the told the parent to feck off. It would have been very bad press though.

Twas in the news. Was a class action suit and they're settling it.

Back on topic it's honestly shocking to hear that EA are working micro transactions into single player, I've already paid for this, games. They can shove their micro transactions up their micro holes.

Varik

nesf wrote: »

Was it sued? What I remember is some parent making a complaint to Apple after their kid spent $300 or something on the Smurf Village app and Apple refunding it without a problem and releasing a press release for people telling them how to disable in-app purchases in games on iOS. The issue was normally you have to sign in to buy something in an app but if the parent had signed in before there was a 10-15 minute window where you didn't have to sign in to buy things, it wasn't that the parent in question didn't know there were micro-transactions in the game, it was that he thought his 8 year old wouldn't be able to buy anything because she didn't know the account password.

Technically I think Apple could have the told the parent to feck off. It would have been very bad press though.

It was a law suit and dates back to before you'd need to sign in or have the 15 minute window, it's only be settled out of court now and was down to the parents not knowing.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/apple-agrees-to-settle-lawsuit-over-app-purchases-by-children/

Azza

The microtansactions in Dead Space 3 are pefectable acceptable to me. I'm not interested in using them myself but I have no problems with the option to use them being there what so ever.

Grimebox

Penn wrote: »

EA Sports... It's not all in the game unless you pay for it

EA Games...Challenge Pay For Everything :pac:



I'm actually surprised by the amount of people that have no interest in the game whatsoever. I thought I was the minority. I played the first one and the horror aspect faded away after 30 mins and just became an average action shooter. I can appreciate that creating a authentic horror atmosphere must be incredibly difficulty in an interactive media like gaming

nesf

Varik wrote: »

It was a law suit and dates back to before you'd need to sign in or have the 15 minute window, it's only be settled out of court now and was down to the parents not knowing.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/apple-agrees-to-settle-lawsuit-over-app-purchases-by-children/

Cool, I was thinking of this one: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/09/smurf-it-all-to-smurf-in-app-purchases-ring-up-1-400-in-charge/

Azza

Yeah I thought Dead Space 1 struggled to maintain the horror atmosphere as well, a few hours in and the atmosphere was gone. You just get desensitized to after a while. These type of games have no atmosphere on repeated play throughs.

Still I enjoyed the first 2 and so far I'm enoying the 3rd one as well.

gimli2112

Ye'r all very brave in the cold light of day.

Anyone who played Dead Space 1 in a dark room, alone at night with a headset turned up loud has my eternal respect.


A fukun 6 shot plasma cutter? Things improved as you got better stuff but still!

elekid

I've never played a game with microtransactions but from what I've read they seem to be all about making games more tedious so that people will be willing to pay to spend less time playing them - sounds fun.

Azza

For as long as I can remember gaming, single player games have used a system of unlocking weapons and equipment gradually as you progress through the story. If you find that tedious you will find a very high percentage of games tedious.

Icyseanfitz

Azza wrote: »

For as long as I can remember gaming, single player games have used a system of unlocking weapons and equipment gradually as you progress through the story. If you find that tedious you will find a very high percentage of games tedious.

yup, playing the game not paying the game

this kind of **** is whats making gaming gradually worse, i wouldnt pay for this crap but for every one of me there is 20 idiots who will so its only going to get worse and worse

biggebruv

I bought Dead Space 3 and enjoyed the heck out of it just as much as 1+2

micro transactions does not bother me the game is not affected because of it

its there for fools that do buy stuff like that and EA know theres a lot of fools who will be spending it on them.

but aslong as the game was not affected then I don't see the harm its not forced upon the player with a massive popup in the game

you can turn CO-OP off completely in dead space 3 aswell something RE did not do you dont have to babysit a stupid AI when playing alone

Dead Space done it perfectly and future REs should take note that this is how you do coop for a horror/action game

Azza

Icyseanfitz wrote:

yup, playing the game not paying the game

this kind of **** is whats making gaming gradually worse, i wouldnt pay for this crap but for every one of me there is 20 idiots who will so its only going to get worse and worse

If you don't want to use it thats fine. If others do thats fine also and it does not make them idiots.

With alot of games if you want to get all the weapons and equipment sometimes it requires several play throughs. For many people they won't get to unlock the weapons because they get bored playing through the same levels over and over. I for one would be one of those type of people. So now they have a shortcut to get all the gear unlocked for their first playthrough or maybe a second. Maybe they do like multipal pay throughs but just don't have the time with work or other commitments. They now have an option to get all the gear faster.

Icyseanfitz

Azza wrote: »

If you don't want to use it thats fine. If others do thats fine also and it does not make them idiots.

With alot of games if you want to get all the weapons and equipment sometimes it requires several play throughs. For many people they won't get to unlock the weapons because they get bored playing through the same levels over and over. I for one would be one of those type of people. So now they have a shortcut to get all the gear unlocked for their first playthrough or maybe a second. Maybe they do like multipal pay throughs but just don't have the time with work or other commitments. They now have an option to get all the gear faster.

Yeah ea where just testing the waters with this, you won't be too happy when you have to pay to play a character in a fighting game or spend 3 weeks trying to unlock it trough grinding , that's what its going to come to if this becomes acceptable

VinLieger

A relevant discussion just popped up in the simcity thread.
Everyones assuming, probably rightly, that EA are gonna go nuts with simcity dlc and addons etc and that they will be ridiculously priced for what they are offering.
But then someone mentioned paradox and their approach to DLC where you usually get a decent amount of content for the price as well as balance updates, tweaks and fixes to the actual game that even if you dont want the DLC are still applied to the game.
Through this paradox have built up a loyalty where people actually go out of their way to pick up the packs as they feel it is worth the money and rather than the feeling of being screwed theres a feeling of being rewarded for being a customer

gizmo

VinLieger wrote: »

A relevant discussion just popped up in the simcity thread.
Everyones assuming, probably rightly, that EA are gonna go nuts with simcity dlc and addons etc and that they will be ridiculously priced for what they are offering.
But then someone mentioned paradox and their approach to DLC where you usually get a decent amount of content for the price as well as balance updates, tweaks and fixes to the actual game that even if you dont want the DLC are still applied to the game.
Through this paradox have built up a loyalty where people actually go out of their way to pick up the packs as they feel it is worth the money and rather than the feeling of being screwed theres a feeling of being rewarded for being a customer

The difference being, Paradox are a privately owned publisher creating niche games on smaller budgets and aiming them at the core and often more fickle gamer. EA are a publicly traded company creating big budget blockbuster titles to appeal to everyone. The former needs to go out of their way to ensure that they keep their fanbase happy and do so by providing excellent content updates such as those described, the latter need to ensure that they maximise potential revenue with each release. This doesn't preclude the development of outstanding games of course, but their underlying philosophy as a publishing house is entirely different.

Azza

Icyseanfitz wrote:

Yeah ea where just testing the waters with this, you won't be too happy when you have to pay to play a character in a fighting game or spend 3 weeks trying to unlock it trough grinding , that's what its going to come to if this becomes acceptable

We already have had DLC characters in fighting games.
Street Fighter 4 series, Street Fighter X Tekken, UMvC 3, Blaz Blue, Mortal Kombat.

Grinding to unlock characters is also already in fighting games. It was in SF3 and SF4. SF3 is over 10 years old and it had it.

This is a system thats been around in all types of video games for years.

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

but their underlying philosophy as a publishing house is entirely different.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/12/05

:pac:

gizmo

nesf wrote: »

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/12/05

:pac:

And on that note, for all the abuse EA get, I'd still regard them as having published a far better collection of games this generation than Activision. Whether people feel that their subsequent mishandling of sequels erases that goodwill is something I'll leave up to them.

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

And on that note, for all the abuse EA get, I'd still regard them as having published a far better collection of games this generation than Activision. Whether people feel that their subsequent mishandling of sequels erases that goodwill is something I'll leave up to them.

Yeah, EA haven't quite managed Activision's depths of depravity with respect to management.

Icyseanfitz

Azza wrote: »

We already have had DLC characters in fighting games.
Street Fighter 4 series, Street Fighter X Tekken, UMvC 3, Blaz Blue, Mortal Kombat.

Grinding to unlock characters is also already in fighting games. It was in SF3 and SF4. SF3 is over 10 years old and it had it.

This is a system thats been around in all types of video games for years.

i dont know how you find that acceptable? ive played many a ftp mmo (in particular the korean ones) where the devs make it so time consumingly boring to get stuff through grinding that the only real alternative is to put money down, thats where devs like ea are going to go and from experience its horrible

Penn

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i dont know how you find that acceptable? ive played many a ftp mmo (in particular the korean ones) where the devs make it so time consumingly boring to get stuff through grinding that the only real alternative is to put money down, thats where devs like ea are going to go and from experience its horrible

That's my worry too. They'll have the ability to unlock everything you can buy, but will make it that much more difficult and time-consuming that (particularly when it comes to multiplayer) most others will have bought it straight away and be much further ahead of you.

Azza

Icyseanfitz wrote:

i dont know how you find that acceptable? ive played many a ftp mmo (in particular the korean ones) where the devs make it so time consumingly boring to get stuff through grinding that the only real alternative is to put money down, thats where devs like ea are going to go and from experience its horrible

Dead Space 3 is absolutely nothing like a FTP MMO. EA are not relying on micro transactions for the game to be successful. Its not forced on the gamer at all. For most people one playthrough is enough. The unlockables are a bonus that some people like to collect. Some people find multipal play throughs fun. Some people don't or don't have the time. There is now an option that caters to both sets of players.

Games are also often critized, for weapons and equipment being unlocked too late in the game. That you don't get to use them for long enough. Some people would prefer early access to this equipment regardless if it doesn't make sense story wise or balance wise. Micro transaction also addresses this issue.

EA didn't come up with the concept of gradual unlocks through game progressions its been around for ages, the old Resi games had it for example. They just looked at whats a very standard concept in video games and said "there is additional money to be made by offering a people a choice here". If it takes off for them it shows there is a market for what they are doing.

Icyseanfitz

Azza wrote: »

Dead Space 3 is absolutely nothing like a FTP MMO. EA are not relying on micro transactions for the game to be successful. Its not forced on the gamer at all. For most people one playthrough is enough. The unlockables are a bonus that some people like to collect. Some people find multipal play throughs fun. Some people don't or don't have the time. There is now an option that caters to both sets of players.

Games are also often critized, for weapons and equipment being unlocked too late in the game. That you don't get to use them for long enough. Some people would prefer early access to this equipment regardless if it doesn't make sense story wise or balance wise. Micro transaction also addresses this issue.

EA didn't come up with the concept of gradual unlocks through game progressions its been around for ages, the old Resi games had it for example. They just looked at whats a very standard concept in video games and said "there is additional money to be made by offering a people a choice here". If it takes off for them it shows there is a market for what they are doing.

not yet its not, but if ea can get enough fools to pay €50 for a game and then spend another €20-€50 euro for unlock content they will, big publishers like ea and activision are there to make money and thats it,

problem is for everyone one of us rational thinking people that wouldnt touch this stuff with a 10 foot stick there's 20 others who will, dead space 3 was just a test to see how far they can push people, know that they know that a lot of people find this acceptable they will push harder on their next venture

Varik

Before any of this micro transaction stuff you had all those action replay and gameshark devices that you bought with real money to cheat and later on you had gold farmers in every MMO, I'd much rather the publisher/developers get this money than have it go to some gold farming sweat shop.

Gunmonkey

Except in the case of DS3, the transaction items arent that amazing that it breaks the game. 3 of the packs are an armour skin and a weapon, which looking at you could get the blueprints/ advance to the point the parts are unlocked in the bench, within around 4 or 5 hours of play. And the weapons are built off stuff you start with or get early (military engine in basic pistol makes the pulse rifle and seeker, plasma core makes the plasma cutter and line gun, only the ripper is a mid point pickup and even then isnt great). And thats if you can even break apart the weapons, they have a custome finish so either its a special grip that applies it to whatever you stick onto it or they cant be scrapped for parts. And from what I can see from switching suits ingame, the DLC ones are cosmetic as there is a seperate upgrade screen in the Rig shop.

The only argument could be levelled at:

- A) the scrap parts box (but can be bought with ingame currency) could help you by making stuff but the parts arent really that expensive, only the lack of Tungsten near the start of the game limits what you can do. And even then, parts and upgrade nodes are gated by progress in the game

such as crash landing on Tau Volantis, reaching the research centre etc.

so not like your running around with endgame gear within 5 minutes of starting.

- the speed incerase and capacity increase of the scavenger bots. Now this could boost your resource gain a bit, but dropping the timer for a bot from about 9 to 6 minutes isnt much, and in my experience they will always return back to the bench when you are halfway through a section and you have that "Do I go back and get it now, or push on and pick it up at the next bench?" moment. After which, you then have to find another spot to drop him at, so you could be trudging along for 10 minutes before you can redeploy him, so shaving a minute or two off the time isnt a massive boon. Not sure how much of a capacity it upgrades but the bots dont hold much generally, around 30-50 of each resource which is as much as one pickup of each. A single room of enemies + lockers and crates could yield more than a single scavenger gives you.

The DLC doesnt break the game, and isnt vital to complete it either.

Kirby

Azza wrote: »

If you don't want to use it thats fine. If others do thats fine also and it does not make them idiots.

With alot of games if you want to get all the weapons and equipment sometimes it requires several play throughs. For many people they won't get to unlock the weapons because they get bored playing through the same levels over and over. I for one would be one of those type of people. So now they have a shortcut to get all the gear unlocked for their first playthrough or maybe a second. Maybe they do like multipal pay throughs but just don't have the time with work or other commitments. They now have an option to get all the gear faster.

Azza, go back ten years and what you are describing is a cheat menu. If people didn't want to unlock stuff they could input a code and get it. It's suddenly okay to charge for that now? The mind boggles.

Micro transactions are the bane of modern gaming. It's everything thats wrong with the industry wrapped up in a little bow. And whats worse, we have gamers defending the practice!

New content created for the game you love is good. People should pay for it. Old content that is created pre release and then artificially locked is bad. People should not pay for it.

Varik

Kirby wrote: »

Azza, go back ten years and what you are describing is a cheat menu. If people didn't want to unlock stuff they could input a code and get it. It's suddenly okay to charge for that now? The mind boggles.

It's not remotely new, they were called arcades. Even on consoles it's not new, what's new is the fact that it's a first party doing it rather than some third party as with the action replay.

Kirby

Varik wrote: »

It's not remotely new, they were called arcades. Even on consoles it's not new, what's new is the fact that it's a first party doing it rather than some third party as with the action replay.

Most games had cheat codes and cheat menu's in the 90's that were standard in the game. I think you are referring to third party gamesharks and gamegenies which were available but unnecessary.

And micro transactions are very new by a gaming standard. It has only seen widespread and accepted use since the current generation of consoles due to the proliferation of high speed internet.