Do You *Recognize* the State of Israel?

wretcheddomain

We've often had threads on here arguing over whether or not Israel or Hamas are terrorists and so forth, but I was curious to poll Boardster's here on whether or not you recognize the State of Israel or not. For instance, George Galloway recently left a debate in Oxford when he found out he was debating an Israeli citizen, remarking that 'I don't recognize Israel and I don't debate with Israeli's'. His logic was that he didn't want to provide a platform to an Israeli in the same way he wouldn't have provided a platform to a proponent of apartheid South Africa. Either way, he refuses to recognize the State of Israel as this would 'normalize' relations which would be a bad thing if we glossed over any inequalities or crimes which were being undertaken by Israel.

Here's the video of his walkout for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/video-george-galloway-walks-out-of-oxford-debate-8505543.html

It also appears from news released today from Ben Gurion University that rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel increase the risk of miscarriage for their citizens. Of course - this research ignores any rocket attacks that Israel fire into Gaza but this would be a recent example of slimy propaganda which spurts out of the political and social orifice of Israel:

http://www.thehealthsphere.com/wp/?p=8013#more-8013

My position is clear - I think we shouldn't recognize the State of Israel given that the state was formed illegally and it continues to impose an apartheid regime on the Palestinian people.

So what's your view?

bodice ripper

not since the haircut

Nodin

I'd recognise it, as defined by its internationally recognised legal borders.

wretcheddomain

Nodin wrote: »

I'd recognise it, as defined by its internationally recognised legal borders.

So does the passage of time ignore crime?

Kylo Ren

What Israel are doing reminds me of the 'Carny' episode in The Simpsons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWmGhaO59qY

Toshi101

But they told us it was at school so it has to be.

mike65

I recognise the state of your spelling.

dxhound2005

wretcheddomain wrote: »

We've often had threads on here arguing over whether or not Israel or Hamas are terrorists and so forth, but I was curious to poll Boardster's here on whether or not you recognize the State of Israel or not. For instance, George Galloway recently left a debate in Oxford when he found out he was debating an Israeli citizen, remarking that 'I don't recognize Israel and I don't debate with Israeli's'. His logic was that he didn't want to provide a platform to an Israeli in the same way he wouldn't have provided a platform to a proponent of apartheid South Africa. Either way, he refuses to recognize the State of Israel as this would 'normalize' relations which would be a bad thing if we glossed over any inequalities or crimes which were being undertaken by Israel.

Here's the video of his walkout for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/video-george-galloway-walks-out-of-oxford-debate-8505543.html

It also appears from news released today from Ben Gurion University that rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel increase the risk of miscarriage for their citizens. Of course - this research ignores any rocket attacks that Israel fire into Gaza but this would be a recent example of slimy propaganda which spurts out of the political and social orifice of Israel:

http://www.thehealthsphere.com/wp/?p=8013#more-8013

My position is clear - I think we shouldn't recognize the State of Israel given that the state was formed illegally and it continues to impose an apartheid regime on the Palestinian people.

So what's your view?

Who do you mean?

wretcheddomain

mike65 wrote: »

I recognise the state of your spelling.

I wish you'd recognize the forum rules as well:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63152137#post63152137

I thought staying on topic was the most reliable aspect of After Hours.:rolleyes:

My name is URL

Silly question really. It's an internationally recognised state whether or not you as an individual sees it as such.. you can support the Palestinian bid for an equally recognised state without throwing all logic out the window.

Nodin

wretcheddomain wrote: »

So does the passage of time ignore crime?

It's rather more complex than that.

wretcheddomain

My name is URL wrote: »

Silly question really. It's an internationally recognised state whether or not you as an individual sees it as such.. you can support the Palestinian bid for an equally recognised state without throwing all logic out the window.

I don't think it's a silly question. Irrespective how Israel is recognized legally, we should all come to our own perspectives whether this recognition of legality is valid. We can't all be mindless sheep and simply accept any legal judgement from an international body. Politics is somewhat skewed in that respect.

wendell borton

It seems to be the only state that can actually function in that area.

mikemac1

Is this the guy that was elected in Glasgow, London and now Bradford?
He'll be going for election in Wales next....


What's up with the Brits and their acceptance of parachute candidates.

wretcheddomain

wendell borton wrote: »

It seems to be the only state that can actually function in that area.

What relevance is that to the legality of a state? We need to look at history over 90+ years here not because we were taught something in school therefore that makes it right.

Super-Rush

Boardster?

Nodin

wendell borton wrote: »

It seems to be the only state that can actually function in that area.

Yes, legalised torture, an apartheid statelet just outside its borders and nice weather. Recipe for success.

wretcheddomain

mikemac1 wrote: »

Is this the guy that was elected in Glasgow, London and now Bradford?
He'll be going for election in Wales next....


What's up with the Brits and their acceptance of parachute candidates.

Galloway is a bit of a crackpot, but he was speaking to the converted in Bradford given the high population of Muslims that reside there. He knew what he was doing.

dlofnep

Yes, based on the 67' lines. I fully support Israel's existence. But never outside those lines.

Siuin

Galloway... the same guy who said that it wasn't rape to have sex with a woman while she's asleep?

wendell borton

Nodin wrote: »

Yes, legalised torture, an apartheid statelet just outside its borders and nice weather. Recipe for success.

And hamas would be all hugs and kisses if they ran the place.

orestes

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I thought staying on topic was the most reliable aspect of After Hours.:rolleyes:

Usually the most reliable aspect of After Hours is ripping apart people who come in firing an agenda in peoples faces. That or just taking the p1ss out of them till they run off crying.

Seaneh

wretcheddomain wrote: »

We've often had threads on here arguing over whether or not Israel or Hamas are terrorists and so forth, but I was curious to poll Boardster's here on whether or not you recognize the State of Israel or not. For instance, George Galloway recently left a debate in Oxford when he found out he was debating an Israeli citizen, remarking that 'I don't recognize Israel and I don't debate with Israeli's'. His logic was that he didn't want to provide a platform to an Israeli in the same way he wouldn't have provided a platform to a proponent of apartheid South Africa. Either way, he refuses to recognize the State of Israel as this would 'normalize' relations which would be a bad thing if we glossed over any inequalities or crimes which were being undertaken by Israel.

Here's the video of his walkout for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/video-george-galloway-walks-out-of-oxford-debate-8505543.html

It also appears from news released today from Ben Gurion University that rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel increase the risk of miscarriage for their citizens. Of course - this research ignores any rocket attacks that Israel fire into Gaza but this would be a recent example of slimy propaganda which spurts out of the political and social orifice of Israel:

http://www.thehealthsphere.com/wp/?p=8013#more-8013

My position is clear - I think we shouldn't recognize the State of Israel given that the state was formed illegally and it continues to impose an apartheid regime on the Palestinian people.

So what's your view?

I agree that Galloway was right to walk out and refuse to give yet another stage for Zionists to spread their propaganda and misinformation, but I do recognise the State of Israel, much like I recognise South Africa pre-1993.

I do not however feel Israel is a terrorist state which has been engaged in Illegal occupation of Palestinian Lands since 1967 and been operating a policy of systematic genocide and Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinian people from their lands (both in The Occupied Territories, and within post 1948 "Israel") and as such should be held to task and prosecuted and punished by the international community and treated like the Pariah state that it is until such time as they withdraw from Palestinian lands (including East Jerusalem) and allow Palestinian Refugee's (the worlds largest Refugee population) their right of return, which is a basic human right and legal entitlement under international law.

I also do not believe Israel has a right to exist as a "Jewish" nation. No country has the right to give preferential treatments to one religion or race, there are over 2million non-jews in Israel and they should have just as much entitlement to full access to services as Jewish Israeli's.

I also believe Israel should be subject to International Sanctions and Boycott and fully support the BDSMovement and believe that Palestine has just as much right to Exist as Israel does (probably more so in reality).

Here's a short video from BDSMovement.net explaing why sanctions are needed and who you should support Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel until they halt their ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinian people and withdraw from Palestinian lands for good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N69oP9nrwo

Busted Flat.

Palestine, is the correct name of that country. What is there at the moment is a concentration camp.

Nodin

wendell borton wrote: »

And hamas would be all hugs and kisses if they ran the place.

Neither would Genghis Khan, or Azghul, the Eater Of Souls. Theres some relevance to your comment?

Seaneh

wendell borton wrote: »

And hamas would be all hugs and kisses if they ran the place.

Hamas wouldn't be running the place.

Without oppression organisations like Hamas wouldn't exist.

In fact, without funding from Mossad in the 80's and 90's, Hamas probably wouldn't exist today.

You have Israel to blame for that particular monster.

My name is URL

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I don't think it's a silly question. Irrespective how Israel is recognized legally, we should all come to our own perspectives whether this recognition of legality is valid. We can't all be mindless sheep and simply accept any legal judgement from an international body. Politics is somewhat skewed in that respect.

By that logic, it would be fine to disregard the statehood of many many countries around the world. It won't change the fact that they are sovereign states though.

You can make a moral stand on such issues but to say you don't recognise it as a state is a bit silly. It also won't go towards fulfilling the outcome you'd like to see. If you don't recognise Israel as a state how then can they be seen to engage diplomatically in reaching any future agreement or peace accord? The reason so many problems exist in the region is due to the reluctance of both sides to recognise each others right to exist. Adding to that is hardly a logical way to end hostilities.

Lawrence1895

I don't recognize a state, that has occupied and invaded territory inside it's borders

Wibbs

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Palestine, is the correct name of that country. What is there at the moment is a concentration camp.

Jesus. While I am certainly no fan of many Israeli gov policies and think the country outside the 67 borders is a landgrab(often violent), I'd suggest you read up a little more on history.

Henlars67

I recognise it, don't have much choice really as it is an internationally recognised country.

However, I do not feel that it should exist and I am disgusted by its apartheid regime.

Madam_X

Siuin wrote: »

Galloway... the same guy who said that it wasn't rape to have sex with a woman while she's asleep?

The man seems a total bully and bigot.

corktina

Ecumenical Matter...there I said it/

Siuin

Seaneh wrote: »

Without oppression organisations like Hamas wouldn't exist.

Yes, I'm sure it'd be a happy little tea party like the Arabs have in the rest of the Middle East :rolleyes:

I wonder if Galloway would have walked out if he was debating with a Syrian diplomat.

Tbh his actions just smack of complete childishness- if he has issues with Israeli policy, then by all means let rip on the guy! After all, isn't that what a debate is? You know... arguing with someone you don't agree with?

Seaneh

Madam_X wrote: »

The man seems a total bully and bigot.

How exactly is he a bigot?

Seaneh

Siuin wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure it'd be a happy little tea party like the Arabs have in the rest of the Middle East :rolleyes:

I wonder if Galloway would have walked out if he was debating with a Syrian diplomat.

Tbh his actions just smack of complete childishness- if he has issues with Israeli policy, then by all means let rip on the guy! After all, isn't that what a debate is? You know... arguing with someone you don't agree with?

The Arab world would be a lot happier if the west didn't stick their oar in every time a democratically elected leader starts doing something for the good of their people and the US and Britain didn't continue to prop up their despotic puppets in the region for the last 50 years.

The UK and US created the islamic revolution with their over throwing of Mohammad Mosaddegh's government and instilation of their pupper the Shah. They funded the Ba'ath party and supported them until the 90's, they funded their attack of Iran. They funded and propped up Mubarak, they funded and propped up Gadaffi until a few years ago, they funded and propped up Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, thy continue to prop up the Saudi Royal family.

If the west just kept their ****ing nose out of other peoples business for once, the world would be a much more stable place.

smcgiff

Seaneh wrote: »

Hamas wouldn't be running the place.

The Muslim Brotherhood winning the presidential election was a bit of a shocker seeing as they promised not to run.

Busted Flat.

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus. While I am certainly no fan of many Israeli gov policies and think the country outside the 67 borders is a landgrab(often violent), I'd suggest you read up a little more on history.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=palestine&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CDoQjBAwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHistory_of_Palestine&ei=2i8qUYjSNM-1hAfopoCIBw&usg=AFQjCNFnm1-YjUAeHDEBwTHNVo5fANjwiQ

"In 1832 Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840 Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration and the Revival of the Hebrew language. Jewish immigration throughout the century created relatively large Jewish concentrations in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Jaffa.[2] The British government issued the pro-Zionist Balfour Declaration of 1917 during World War I. The British captured Jerusalem a month later, and were formally awarded a mandate in 1922. The Arab Palestinians revolted in 1920, 1929 and 1936. In 1947, following World War II and the Holocaust, the British Government announced their desire to terminate the Mandate, and the United Nations General Assembly voted to partition the territory. The Arabs rejected the UN partition plan, and a civil war began immediately, with the State of Israel was declared in 1948. The 700,000 Palestinians who fled or were driven from their homes were unable to return following the Lausanne Conference, 1949. In the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Israel captured and incorporated more Mandate territory, Jordan captured the region today known as the West Bank and the Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt. In the course of the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel captured the rest of Mandate Palestine from Jordan and Egypt, and began a policy of Israeli settlements. From 1987 to 1993, the First Palestinian Intifada against Israel took place, ending with the 1993 Oslo Peace Accords. In 2000, the Second or Al-Aqsa Intifada began, and Israel built a barrier. Following Israel's unilateral disengagement plan of 2004, it withdrew all settlers and most of the military presence from the Gaza strip, but maintained control of the air space and coast."

Siuin

Seaneh wrote: »

The Arab world would be a lot happier if the west didn't stick their oar in every time a democratically elected leader starts doing something for the good of their people and the US and Britain didn't continue to prop up their despotic puppets in the region for the last 50 years.

The UK and US created the islamic revolution with their over throwing of Mohammad Mosaddegh's government and instilation of their pupper the Shah. They funded the Ba'ath party and supported them until the 90's, they funded their attack of Iran. They funded and propped up Mubarak, they funded and propped up Gadaffi until a few years ago, they funded and propped up Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, thy continue to prop up the Saudi Royal family.

If the west just kept their ****ing nose out of other peoples business for once, the world would be a much more stable place.

The Arab world can't keep blaming their total disregard for democratic values and human life on western intervention and a colonial history. Ireland has an extensive history of occupation but you dont see us hanging homosexuals from the gallows, beheading and stoning people, systematically torturing its citizens or forcing women to dress like walking bin bags

Seaneh

Siuin wrote: »

torturing, Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing, Illegal occupation, Holding 9000+ people with trial, Apartheid Occupation of other peoples lands, Killing children on their way to school, killing teenagers on their way to college, denying people their human rights like freedom of movement, illegally forcing people off their lands

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Seaneh

smcgiff wrote: »

The Muslim Brotherhood winning the presidential election was a bit of a shocker seeing as they promised not to run.

They were well within their rights to run, weren't they?

Nodin

....I had this mad idea the thread was supposed to be about Israel....

COYW

Been a while since we had a good old bout of antisemitism on boards.....

Chuck Stone

Siuin wrote: »

The Arab world can't keep blaming their total disregard for democratic values and human life on western intervention

They can.

Seaneh

Nodin wrote: »

....I had this mad idea the thread was supposed to be about Israel....

No thread about Israeli is about Israel once the Israeli's and their friends show up, you know that. Instantly becomes about anything BUT Israel because the only way they can even attempt to argue is to deflect and start into rounds of whataboutary becuase even the worlds most obsessed zionist knows they haven't a ****ing leg to stand on when you are talking about the occupation and ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestine, which is the core of the argument.

Seaneh

COYW wrote: »

Been a while since we had a good old bout of antisemitism on boards.....

When has anyone in this thread said anything Anti-Semitic?


That "come back" is the lowest form of idiocy.

Nodin

COYW wrote: »

Been a while since we had a good old bout of antisemitism on boards.....

If you see any anti-semtic posts, report them.

As there appear to be none on this thread, you might explain why you mentioned antisemitism at all....

Madam_X

Seaneh wrote: »

How exactly is he a bigot?

Ah the man is clearly hate-filled and irrational. That's not solely the preserve of the right. I don't agree with the Israeli state policy on Palestine either but that doesn't mean I'm gonna be blind to naked hatred like that of GG.

COYW wrote: »

Been a while since we had a good old bout of antisemitism on boards.....

Anti-semitism? Where? Let me know and I'll report it, which I'm sure you have done.

Lawrence1895

Madam_X wrote: »

Ah the man is clearly hate-filled and irrational. That's not solely the preserve of the right. I don't agree with the Israeli state policy on Palestine either but that doesn't mean I'm gonna be blind to naked hatred like that of GG.

Anti-semitism? Where? Let me know and I'll report it, which I'm sure you have done.

Anti semitism refers to the religion of Judaism, does it? Nothing against them, everybody should follow the religion of his choice. But a political state which invades and occupies a foreign territory? Different story, imo

dlofnep

Nodin wrote: »

If you see any anti-semtic posts, report them.

As there appear to be none on this thread, you might explain why you mentioned antisemitism at all....

Because any discussion of Israel invokes up super-defensive mode - To which people lacking any serious intellect can only throw out words like "antisemitism" as much as possible, in hopes of it sticking.

There are antisemites in this world, but the word has been abused so much now - It could be used for someone who has a fear of apples.

An Coilean

I used to, ever since it got a bit bigger round the middle though its just not been the same.

It's like there's a big wall between us.

Mal-Adjusted

COYW wrote: »

Been a while since we had a good old bout of antisemitism on boards.....

I don't see any comments about the Jewish people. I see people condemning Israels horrific state policies regarding their neighbors and even their own citizens as well as their crimes against humanity.

Israel =/= Jew