set scope

sniperman

hi lads,can anyone tell me what would be the best range to zero in my .22cz 452,in order to get the flattest trajectory from 10 to 60 yards,i shoot at night,and my targets are from 10 out to 60 yards aprox,all i want to do is aim at target,(rabbits head)and not have to hold under or over,any advice welcome,im using Ely subsonic,with sak mod,i have fixed 4xmag scope,thanks all.

One shot on kill

I don't like using subs so I'm not to familiar with there flight path but I'd prob zero it at about 50 yards its a good range for the 22 and subs I think.

Cass

You are referring to the point blank range?

The problem you are going to have with any subsonic rounds in .22lr is the low speed, and seriously arced trajectory.

From 50 yards to 100 yard syou are looking at approx. 6-6.5 inches of drop. If memory serves i tried my rifle at 25 yards with a 50 yard zero, and there was a 1.5 inch difference in POI. So even with only 25 yard difference you have a different POI.

Now that's at 25 yds with a 50yd zero. So closer. Go the opposite way, further out, and the shift in POI becomes more "severe". So from 50 to 75 about 2.5 - 3 inch shift in POI.

The point being if you want a zero on your rifle that will allow you to shoot between 10 yards and 60 yards you may need to look for a zero more towards the longest range you intend to shoot as this is where the shift in POI will be "worse". So, and this is just a guess-timate, you could be looking for a zero of 40-45 yards.


Your best bet would be to set up paper targets at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 yards. Place a central bullseye in each target. Zero the rifle for 40 yards. Then fir a group of between 3 to 5 shots at each bullseye at each distance to determine the shift in POI compared to POA. If you find 40 yards does not give you the point blank range you need try 30 or 50. If you almost have it but are not satisfied try 35, 45, or 55.

sniperman

thanks lads for your help,guess i have a bit of experimenting to do,ill try a 40yard zero first to see what happens when i shoot out to 60 yards,i was thinking maybe a midway zero say 30 yards so if the bullet rises or drops an inch or so between point blank to 60 yards aprox,it wont matter on a rabbits head.i wont take shots much past 60 yards at night,i only have a fixed 4xmag scope,and i only want to do head shots,for a quick kill,i come across rabbits evan closer than 10 yards some nights,if anyone else has any opinions please post on here,although cass seems to know what he is talking about,and i will try what he says,thanks all

Cass

sniperman wrote: »

............,i was thinking maybe a midway zero say 30 yards so if the bullet rises or drops an inch or so between point blank to 60 yards aprox,it wont matter on a rabbits head...........l

One point to remember, and i touched on it above.

If you shoot to a maximum of 60 yards it will not necessarily mean that 30 yards will be the perfect zero giving you the same drop when the rabbit is closer as when he is further out.

A bullet is traveling it's fastest when it leaves the barrel. So the difference in POI (point of impact) at less than 30 yards (your zero) will be less than the shift in POI at 40 or 50 yards as the bullet is traveling much slower than at 15 or 20 yards. So the difference in the POI will always be more the further past your zero you go, rather than closer than your zero (under 30 yards) if that makes sense.


As i said above with a 50 yard zero if i shoot at 100 (without adjusting) i get a POI 6 inches lower than my POA (point of aim). However if i shoot at 25 yards i only get a 1.5 inch difference as the bullet is traveling faster at 25 yards than it is at 100 or even 50 yards.

Now by all means try 30 yards, but i reckon it's going to be closer to 40 yards or so to give you as close as is possible to a point blank range.

sniperman

Cass wrote: »

One point to remember, and i touched on it above.

If you shoot to a maximum of 60 yards it will not necessarily mean that 30 yards will be the perfect zero giving you the same drop when the rabbit is closer as when he is further out.

A bullet is traveling it's fastest when it leaves the barrel. So the difference in POI (point of impact) at less than 30 yards (your zero) will be less than the shift in POI at 40 or 50 yards as the bullet is traveling much slower than at 15 or 20 yards. So the difference in the POI will always be more the further past your zero you go, rather than closer than your zero (under 30 yards) if that makes sense.


As i said above with a 50 yard zero if i shoot at 100 (without adjusting) i get a POI 6 inches lower than my POA (point of aim). However if i shoot at 25 yards i only get a 1.5 inch difference as the bullet is traveling faster at 25 yards than it is at 100 or even 50 yards.

Now by all means try 30 yards, but i reckon it's going to be closer to 40 yards or so to give you as close as is possible to a point blank range.

hi cass,thanks again for your help,it all seems a bit confusing,but you know your stuff,the 30 yard idea is just something i was thinking about,but your 40 to 45 yard zero to achieve my objective seems more realistic,and ill certainly try that,its my first rifle,and i guess i have a bit to learn,regards.

J.R.

With Eley or Winchester subs. if you zero it at 59 yards it will also be bang on at 15 yards.

It will be an inch high at about 37 yards (highest point) and an inch low at 69 yards.

From 10 yards to 69 yards you will have a good chance of hitting them with this zero.

sniperman

J.R. wrote: »

With Eley or Winchester subs. if you zero it at 59 yards it will also be bang on at 15 yards.

It will be an inch high at about 37 yards and an inch low at 69 yards.

From 10 yards to 69 yards you will have a good chance of hitting them with this zero.

hi j.r.,thanks for your input,yes ill certainly try your 59yard zero,an inch up or down from p.o.i. on a rabbit head would almost certainly result in a kill,ill try with both eley and winnies,see what happens,regards.

Cass

Below shows the arc of a bullet.

• Point A is when the bullet first passes through the line of sight and would be the 15 yard point.
• Point B is the actual zero of 59 yards, and the second time the bullet passes through the line of sight.

One shot on kill

J.R. wrote: »

With Eley or Winchester subs. if you zero it at 59 yards it will also be bang on at 15 yards.

It will be an inch high at about 37 yards (highest point) and an inch low at 69 yards.

From 10 yards to 69 yards you will have a good chance of hitting them with this zero.

With that info does it make a difference in say different rifles or heavy light barrels or would all cz's be close enough.

niteowl84

sniperman wrote: »

hi lads,can anyonoe tell me what would be the best range to zero in my .22cz 452,in order to get the flattest trajectory from 10 to 60 yards,i shoot at night,and my targets are from 10 out to 60 yards aprox,all i want to do is aim at target,(rabbits head)and not have to hold under or over,any advice welcome,im using Ely subsonic,with sak mod,i have fixed 4xmag scope,thanks all.

Hi sniperman what you should do is go on to www.shooterscalculator.com and click on ""point blank range calculator"" and enter your ammos information and target suze in inches and it will tell you exactly where to zero your scope at a 100 yards and it will also tell u where ur near and far zero will be and the maximum range too for instance it mite say zero ur scope 6 inch low at a hundred yard and ur maximum point blank range mite be around 65 yards which would mean u aim dead on out to 65 yards and if ur target size is lets say 2 inches then when u shoot it will be hitting 2 in high or low but will stil be a kill shot.

sniperman

Cass wrote: »

Below shows the arc of a bullet.

• Point A is when the bullet first passes through the line of sight and would be the 15 yard point.
• Point B is the actual zero of 59 yards, and the second time the bullet passes through the line of sight.

hi cass,thanks for this illustration,so are you saying that a 59 yard zero would be my best bet to achive head shots from point blank to 60 yards aprox?the scope line of sight seems nearly the same as the bullet path line,maybe im missing the point?thanks

sniperman

niteowl84 wrote: »

Hi sniperman what you should do is go on to www.shooterscalculator.com and click on ""point blank range calculator"" and enter your ammos information and target suze in inches and it will tell you exactly where to zero your scope at a 100 yards and it will also tell u where ur near and far zero will be and the maximum range too for instance it mite say zero ur scope 6 inch low at a hundred yard and ur maximum point blank range mite be around 65 yards which would mean u aim dead on out to 65 yards and if ur target size is lets say 2 inches then when u shoot it will be hitting 2 in high or low but will stil be a kill shot.

hi niteowl,thanks for this info,ill give it a try and see what happens,im sure by the time i have tried all of the suggestions.ill be a top class sniper:D

Cass

sniperman wrote: »

hi cass,thanks for this illustration,so are you saying that a 59 yard zero would be my best bet to achive head shots from point blank to 60 yards aprox?

I'm only using those numbers as JR provided them, and he has most likely used them so i would be happy to rely on his numbers. I personally haven't used such a point blank method. I usually just gold off. More used to it.

the scope line of sight seems nearly the same as the bullet path line,maybe im missing the point?thanks

The illustration is just for display purposes. The arc could be more or less depending on bullet, etc. I mean it could go like this:

slim223

I used to shoot a .22 with Winchester subs with a 50 yard zero for a few years. I'd Mostly take head shots. Any distance under or over the 50, I got used of the hold under or over required to still get good shot placement.

sniperman

thanks cass and slim223,ill certainly take on board your advice,the weather is due to be fine for the next few days,no prizes for guessing what ill be doing,thanks a lot lads.

223Shooter

Hi sniperman,

The lads have given you some pretty sound advice. I recently picked up a Nikon 3-9x40 for my CZ452 from a forum member here and spent a few hours working out my drops/come ups from 20m-120m with Winchester Super X 40gr. Subs. I zeroed the rifle at 50m and using each bullseye as my POA I fired two shots to get an idea of drop in inches. As this scope has fingertip adjustable turrets I focused on dialling my changes / recording as appropriate, and didn't work too much with holdover but a similar days shooting would put you right, as the lads have already recommended. I went with the 50m zero as it also has me bang on at 20m. It is ~3/4" high at 30m, 1/2" high at 40m and just less than 1" low at sixty metres. Although this is essentially point and pull on a rabbits head sized target I will always tend to lower/raise my POA slightly to err on the side of caution.

Cass

Practice lad. A lot of it. Great way to learn the quirks of your rifle, and if nothing else it's a day spent firing a few rounds. Always a good thing.:D

yubabill1

Hi Sniperman, sounds like you're having fun.

Couple of important things:

1. Different brands of bullet have different trajectories, so for now it's best to choose only one and stick with it.

2. We always set up targets at different ranges when testing a new rifle/calibre, as originally suggested by Cass:

I would suggest 25yds and 50 yds first, then if you have time, 60yds and 10yds, so you know where it goes.

Be careful to get your distances correct- we have even been known to use a metre stick!

Then try what you have done with the rabbits.

If it's not working well, go back to the target range and adjust, until you hit regularly when hunting.

When you get it right for you - leave it alone!

There is no easy way.

One shot on kill

Guys should he be worried about the barrel getting a little warm and changing the poi as when hunting your barrel is never or bairly warm as ye guys know. Is this something to consider with a 22.

If you have a few targets out is easy enough to keep shooting and adjusting your sight thinking something wrong.

J.R.

J.R. wrote: »

With Eley or Winchester subs. if you zero it at 59 yards it will also be bang on at 15 yards.

It will be an inch high at about 37 yards (highest point) and an inch low at 69 yards.

From 10 yards to 69 yards you will have a good chance of hitting them with this zero.

Cass wrote: »

Below shows the arc of a bullet.

• Point A is when the bullet first passes through the line of sight and would be the 15 yard point.
• Point B is the actual zero of 59 yards, and the second time the bullet passes through the line of sight.

sniperman wrote: »

hi cass,thanks for this illustration,so are you saying that a 59 yard zero would be my best bet to achive head shots from point blank to 60 yards aprox?the scope line of sight seems nearly the same as the bullet path line,maybe im missing the point?thanks

In the illustration above the arrow pointing from BULLET PATH would be the 37 yards one inch high.

__________________________________


I have used the above settings with a Savage Mark 2 .22LR and they worked perfectly with Winchester Super X© sub-sonic bullet and the Eley Xtra© sub-sonic bullets.

Saying that I have now changed my zero to 75 yards, using a different method of hold over - hold under.

The rabbits I now hunt are very wary and you would be lucky to get within 60 yards of them....sometimes (rarely) you may get a shot at 40 yards.........most shots taken at 70 - 80 yards.

As the land I shoot varies between areas where rabbits are twitchy, nervous and wary to other areas where rabbits are not bothered unless you get too close my shooting distances, when hunting, can vary between 40 – 85 yards. To cover such a range with the .22 LR bullets I prefer to zero my rifle now at 75 yards.

I’ve found that both the Winchester Super X© sub-sonic bullet and the Eley Xtra© sub-sonic bullet , zeroed at 75 yards will similarly have a near zero at 12 yards, will be 1.7” high at 50 yards, bang on at 75 yards and 4.2” low at 100 yards. That sighting will put the bullet low by over 4" at 100 yards, but I resist the temptation to take those shots, because the energy of the little bullet falls off pretty quickly.

This usefully ‘flat’ trajectory allows humane shots on squirrels and rabbits at the ranges at which they are usually hunted. The near zero can be useful for testing the rifle later for accuracy and zero. If it’s accurate at 12 yards zero then it is bang on again at 75 yards. From 20 yards to 80 yards the bullet will roughly be no higher or lower than 1½”, as it travels along its path, which should hit a vital organ.

With my rifle zeroed in at 75 yards, using Winchester Super X© sub-sonic bullets, I’ve worked out that with the "duplex" scope reticule on the Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20X50 , using the thick/thin junction of the top crosshair as the aiming point, it’s ‘on’ at 50 yards with the scope set at 10x. Using the thick/thin junction of the bottom crosshair as the aiming point it’s also ‘on’ again at 100 yards with the scope set at 16x.



This new set-up covers shots from 10 - 100 yards and has worked successfully.

Cass

One shot on kill wrote: »

Guys should he be worried about the barrel getting a little warm and changing the poi as when hunting your barrel is never or bairly warm as ye guys know. Is this something to consider with a 22.
.

On a .22lr this will not be an issue. I have fired 5-6 mags of 5 rounds each as quick as i could cycle the bolt, and mag, and never suffered change in POI.

Obviously in a semi auto wit continued none stop shooting it might be, but for a bolt action rifle, and in hunting conditions there won't be a bother.

yubabill1

Cass,

I operated a similar system to you when I hunted 22LR, but it might be a bit complex for someone just starting out.

IMHO 1.5" high is enough to miss high if holding aim at the heart. That's fine if you are experienced, because you hold low, but i remember starting out and keeping it simple for several years, keeping the range quite conservative and aiming straight-on.

Cass

Absolutely.

That's why i spent so much time explaining the process to get a point blank range. Easier just to point and shoot. The hold off did not come for some time, and after many rounds down range.