German Catholic Church to allow morning-after pill in rape cases

the culture of deference

We have another new ruling by he german rcc who have changed their position on the morning-after pill after apologising after two Catholic hospitals provoked an outcry last month for refusing to treat a rape victim in Cologne. It seems that the church can just make up it's own rules country to country.


A 25-year-old woman was referred to Catholic run hospitals in Cologne by her doctor after she was drugged at a party


The Catholic hospitals refused to treat her because they could not prescribe the pill, which is taken after sex to avoid pregnancy.
Germany's Catholic Church has decided to permit certain types of morning-after pill for women who have been raped.



The German Bishops' Conference said church-run hospitals would now ensure proper medical, psychological, and emotional care for rape victims.
This includes administering pills that prevent pregnancy without inducing an abortion.


Archbishop Robert Zollitsch said women who have been victims of rape will get the proper human, medical, psychological and pastoral care".
"That can include medication with a 'morning-after pill' as long as this has a prophylactic and not an abortive effect,"


The German Catholic church will now differentiate between pills that prevent sperm from fertilising an egg in the womb and pills that induce an abortion, in cases of rape.


Cologne's Cardinal Joachim Meisner, an ally of the outgoing German-born Pope Benedict, has already apologised for church hospitals' treatment of the woman. He said it "shames us deeply because it contradicts our Christian mission and our purpose".


He also said they need more women in leadership positions, although this will not include the ordination of women as priests.



The church remains firmly opposed to abortion and artificial birth control, but has already faced mass desertions over cases of sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests.





http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0221/368932-german-catholic-church-morning-after-pill/

Gordon

Did God change his mind again?

robindch

the culture of deference wrote: »

The church remains firmly opposed to abortion and artificial birth control, but has already faced mass desertions over cases of sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests.

Hardly worth pointing out that "administering pills that prevent pregnancy without inducing an abortion" is one working definition of "artificial birth control".

It's ok if you were raped because that's not your fault.
But not if you have sex you damn whore!

Bannasidhe

bluewolf wrote: »

It's ok if you were raped because that's not your fault.
But not if you have sex you damn whore!

Which at least is some progress from it's your fault if you were raped you damn whore!

Galvasean

Ratzinger isn't even out the door yet and the slippery slope to a loving and caring church has begun...

krudler

church in common sense ruling shocker

Sarky

The new pope will come down hard on them, just like Ratzinger did with those US nuns who spent too much time helping the poor and needy and not enough time denouncing the gays.

ShooterSF

Sarky wrote: »

The new pope will come down hard on them, just like Ratzinger did with those US nuns who spent too much time helping the poor and needy and not enough time denouncing the gays.

I have my doubts. They're protecting the church's revenue stream. It's straight out of the mormon's school of changing your god's view if it's likely to decrease revenue.

Geomy

Is the German Catholic Church decision going to make any negative impact on your lives ?

The Church really has a strong hold on some of ye :S

Bannasidhe

Geomy wrote: »

The Church really has a strong hold on some of ye :S

Indeed. It's hold over some is so strong that they can't see the hypocrisy.

It's not like the Roman Catholic Church (Germany) has any connection whatsoever with the Roman Catholic Church (Ireland) both of which are autonomous and completely independent of the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican).

Geomy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Indeed. It's hold over some is so strong that they can't see the hypocrisy.

It's not like the Roman Catholic Church (Germany) has any connection whatsoever with the Roman Catholic Church (Ireland) both of which are autonomous and completely independent of the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican).

Wouldn't it be good if someone could come up with some sort of group get together to help eachother on a way of detaching from the church etc

In a way that has a positive influence on their lives,and they can move on etc

Such a good influence that they won't even engage in debates about how evil,corrupt and insidious the whole thing is...

Bannasidhe

Geomy wrote: »

Wouldn't it be good if someone could come up with some sort of group get together to help eachother on a way of detaching from the church etc

In a way that has a positive influence on their lives,and they can move on etc

Such a good influence that they won't even engage in debates about how evil,corrupt and insidious the whole thing is...

Wouldn't it be great if the church would detach itself from the lives of those who are not members of it and concentrated on being a positive influence on those who are rather than engage in public condemnations, cover-ups, protection of child abusers, dodgy assets transfers to put funds beyond the reach of their victims and then trying to claim to be the voice of moral authority?

Who is 'debating' the corruption of the RCC - conclusive proof is in the public domain. Sadly, some just cannot accept how vile this organisation is - they are the only ones attempting to 'debate' - but most of their efforts are about as convincing as your post - attack the critics but ignore the problems.

Bit like this blame 'the gays' for the Pope's resignation malarky...

ShooterSF

Geomy wrote: »

Is the German Catholic Church decision going to make any negative impact on your lives ?

First they came for the communists...

robindch

Geomy wrote: »

Is the German Catholic Church decision going to make any negative impact on your lives?

Are there any Germans controlling the church at the moment?

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Are there any Germans controlling the church at the moment?

Therein lies the question....

Geomy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if the church would detach itself from the lives of those who are not members of it and concentrated on being a positive influence on those who are rather than engage in public condemnations, cover-ups, protection of child abusers, dodgy assets transfers to put funds beyond the reach of their victims and then trying to claim to be the voice of moral authority?

Who is 'debating' the corruption of the RCC - conclusive proof is in the public domain. Sadly, some just cannot accept how vile this organisation is - they are the only ones attempting to 'debate' - but most of their efforts are about as convincing as your post - attack the critics but ignore the problems.

Bit like this blame 'the gays' for the Pope's resignation malarky...

I couldn't really give a toss about the church,organized religion etc

There's always some power struggle going on in organizations...

I'm sure there's corruption going on in atheism organizations or gatherings etc

human 19

"as long as this has a prophylactic and not an abortive effect,"

So this seems to mean that the pill will only be given before conception occurs.
Any idea how this would be determined?

Imagine a rape victim going to such a hospital an d being told "Sorry, conception has occurred. Off you go now"

Bannasidhe

Geomy wrote: »

I couldn't really give a toss about the church,organized religion etc

There's always some power struggle going on in organizations...

I'm sure there's corruption going on in atheism organizations or gatherings etc

I don't care if you give a toss or not.

I care that a religion with amount of influence over the society I live in as the RCC has constantly seeks to dehumanise me.

But hey - if you're all right Jack...

Geomy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't care if you give a toss or not.

I care that a religion with amount of influence over the society I live in as the RCC has constantly seeks to dehumanise me.

But hey - if you're all right Jack...

If you're able to detach from it,sure it won't have any influence on ya Jill

Bannasidhe

Geomy wrote: »

If you're able to detach from it,sure it won't have any influence on ya Jill

If the State can detach from it I think you mean.

Geomy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If the State can detach from it I think you mean.

Yeah exactly

Hotblack Desiato

Geomy wrote: »

I couldn't really give a toss about the church,organized religion etc

Good for you.

You may give a toss however when you become a parent and realise that 93% of Irish primary schools are controlled by the Roman Catholic Church and they can legally refuse to enrol your child in favour of a baptised Catholic or indeed any baptised Christian. If you do get your child in, they will be religiously indoctrinated against your wishes.

crockholm

ninja900 wrote: »

Good for you.

You may give a toss however when you become a parent and realise that 93% of Irish primary schools are controlled by the Roman Catholic Church and they can legally refuse to enrol your child in favour of a baptised Catholic or indeed any baptised Christian. If you do get your child in, they will be religiously indoctrinated against your wishes.

Then maybe start doing what the filthy papists did,and create your own schools,with your own ethos

Bannasidhe

crockholm wrote: »

Then maybe start doing what the filthy papists did,and create your own schools,with your own ethos

Do you mean those schools the RCC was allowed to build for supporting the Act Of Union - you know, that little thing we had a War of Independence to get out of?

Or do you mean the schools the State handed over to the RCC after so-called independence?

Or are you perchance referring to the 90 million euro currently allocated to build more schools for the Christian Brothers - surely you have heard of them? They are the ones found guilty of systemic child abuse and cover-ups who agreed to pay a paltry sum of compensation but it turns out they cannot afford to pay as their assets (like school buildings for example) somehow ended up in a Trust?

Here is a mad idea - how about the Papists pay for little Mary and PJ to be educated in special Papist schools while the State pays for schools that treat all children, regardless of religion, equally?

crockholm

Yeah, it was the atheist regiment what won the whole thing.
As an agnostic, I don't care.
The point stands, if your convictions are so great,get out and mobilize,like your hated papists did.
Alas,to use an Irish analogy, athiests are like the FAI and the rcc are the GAA

Bannasidhe

crockholm wrote: »

Yeah, it was the atheist regiment what won the whole thing.
As an agnostic, I don't care.
The point stands, if your convictions are so great,get out and mobilize,like your hated papists did.
Alas,to use an Irish analogy, athiests are like the FAI and the rcc are the GAA

I think you'll find it was the excommunicated republicans who won the War of Independence.

It would seem that not only is time diverted from Maths and science to teach religion in these Papist schools - not enough time is devoted to basic historical facts either.

Since you don't care - why are you even bothering to comment?

robindch

crockholm wrote: »

[...] filthy papists [...]

crockholm wrote: »

[...] hated papists [...]

Crock -- great to have you wish us this afternoon.

A bit less of the wild-eyed fist-waving, though.

Hotblack Desiato

crockholm wrote: »

As an agnostic, I don't care.

I don't see why an agnostic would be any happier about forced religious indoctrination of their kids than an atheist would.

Anyway, there are better threads than this for discussion of schooling, sorry for going off topic

crockholm

I have a Swedish Lutheran son,and I would have no qualms about sending him to a catholic school,if the secular school was better quality then I would send him there. I just feel that the word "indoctrination" is too strong as I have passed through the system without being lobotomized by bishops,people will always find their own level,some of Fred Phelps kids have abandoned his vision,and I'd imagine that would be a lot more intensive than going to st.patricks ballintubber.
Let the catholics have what they have, and the athiest community could set up a rival system,theoretically you should be doing better in the sciences,but,it just seems like the rcc is the perfect villain to blame when these subjects come up. So instead of being angry at some 85 year old bavarian,seek to rival them in creating your schools,your hospitals,your charities,thats all.

I remember talking to the tour guides at Kilmainham gaol (who let me in to see P Pearse's cell alone), I put it to them about the rcc excommunicating the leaders of the rising,to which they replied that it was an urban legend,and the catholic ones had catholic funerals,I have never questioned their wisdom,so I must check that one out myself.

Bannasidhe

crockholm wrote: »

I have a Swedish Lutheran son,and I would have no qualms about sending him to a catholic school,if the secular school was better quality then I would send him there. I just feel that the word "indoctrination" is too strong as I have passed through the system without being lobotomized by bishops,people will always find their own level,some of Fred Phelps kids have abandoned his vision,and I'd imagine that would be a lot more intensive than going to st.patricks ballintubber.
Let the catholics have what they have, and the athiest community could set up a rival system,theoretically you should be doing better in the sciences,but,it just seems like the rcc is the perfect villain to blame when these subjects come up. So instead of being angry at some 85 year old bavarian,seek to rival them in creating your schools,your hospitals,your charities,thats all.

I remember talking to the tour guides at Kilmainham gaol (who let me in to see P Pearse's cell alone), I put it to them about the rcc excommunicating the leaders of the rising,to which they replied that it was an urban legend,and the catholic ones had catholic funerals,I have never questioned their wisdom,so I must check that one out myself.

You can start here:

At midday mass in the North Cathedral the Bishop of Cork, Daniel Cohalan, condemned the arson but spent much of his speech berating the IRA. He said that the burning of the city was a result of the "murderous ambush at Dillon's Cross" and vowed "I will certainly issue a decree of excommunication against anyone who, after this notice, shall take part in an ambush or a kidnapping or attempted murder or arson"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burning_of_Cork

crockholm

Not an expert on canon law,or even what canon law is, but would a bishop have the authority to excommunicate someone?

Did said bishop excommunicate anybody?

Are we certain that the leaders of the easter rebellion were actually excommunicated,or was it,as my guide put it,"an urban legend"?

Hotblack Desiato

A cursory examination of 19th and 20th century history indicates that the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland (same as elsewhere) has consistently chosen the winning side :rolleyes:

In other words, condemn rebellion until it looks like they'll win.

Oddly enough, this is the same throughout the world. No surprise there then.

crockholm

Had a quick scroll down through people excommunicated by the rcc, I didn't see anyone connected to the war of independence,granted it was on wiki.
I understand it is an emotive issue for folks here, but sometimes,I feel that a rabid anti-clericism clouds these threads and it leads to untrue assumptions, everyone likes to believe that their foe is the very epitome of evil/ignorance, ipso facto we are the good guys.
Good night all.

Geomy

crockholm wrote: »

Had a quick scroll down through people excommunicated by the rcc, I didn't see anyone connected to the war of independence,granted it was on wiki.
I understand it is an emotive issue for folks here, but sometimes,I feel that a rabid anti-clericism clouds these threads and it leads to untrue assumptions, everyone likes to believe that their foe is the very epitome of evil/ignorance, ipso facto we are the good guys.
Good night all.

I don't think its a rabid anti-clericsm cloud,It's more like an unhealthy obsession with the RC.
Some like me couldn't give a toss,I can ignore it, but more are OBSESSED

Bannasidhe

crockholm wrote: »

Had a quick scroll down through people excommunicated by the rcc, I didn't see anyone connected to the war of independence,granted it was on wiki.
I understand it is an emotive issue for folks here, but sometimes,I feel that a rabid anti-clericism clouds these threads and it leads to untrue assumptions, everyone likes to believe that their foe is the very epitome of evil/ignorance, ipso facto we are the good guys.
Good night all.

As you appear to be unable to undertake basic research

One of the few recorded cases in Ireland relates to Bishop Daniel Cohalan of Cork who excommunicated republicans during the War of Independence. Concerned at the spiralling scale of violence in December 1920, he declared that anyone who organised or took part in “an ambush or in kidnapping or otherwise shall be guilty of murder, or attempt at murder, shall incur by the very fact the censure of excommunication”.

Theoretically, the leaders of Sinn Féin, including Éamon de Valera, were subject to this order, although it didn’t impede their activities or, for that matter, subsequent harmonious relationships with the Catholic Church.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0126/1224329299092.html



The Papers of Mary MacSwiney held in UCD contain the following

The church and republicanism (1914–40): correspondence with members and representatives of the Roman Catholic hierarchy and with Papal Nuncios concerning the excommunication of members of the Irish Republican Army and the church’s refusal to administer the sacraments to them. Related statements, articles and pamphlets.

http://www.ucd.ie/archives/html/collections/macswiney-mary.htm

It is not an 'emotive' issue - it is a historical fact.

Just like the rape of children by members of the RCC clergy is a historical fact.

Just like the slave labour endured by women and girls in RCC controlled laundries is a historical fact.

You cannot wish these facts away by accusing those who point them out as rabidly anti-clerical or dismiss them because you couldn't find them on wiki (even though the blanket excommunication is mentioned in wikipedia entry on the burning of Cork so you can't have wiki'd much).

robindch

crockholm wrote: »

[...] rabid anti-clericism clouds these threads and it leads to untrue assumptions [...]

Well, why don't you document and challenge these untrue assumptions?

Sarky

Geomy wrote: »

I don't think its a rabid anti-clericsm cloud,It's more like an unhealthy obsession with the RC.
Some like me couldn't give a toss,I can ignore it, but more are OBSESSED

Hi there! I couldn't help but notice your obsession with trying to be all cool and detached from current events and your casual disdain for anyone who made the terrible mistake of having an opinion.

I'm also trying to find a way to feel superior to both sides of an argument myself without requiring the spine or strength of character necessary to hold views of my own. Do you do workshops?

kylith

Geomy wrote: »

I don't think its a rabid anti-clericsm cloud,It's more like an unhealthy obsession with the RC.
Some like me couldn't give a toss,I can ignore it, but more are OBSESSED

So, if you couldn't give a toss, and you can ignore it, why are you on here so much giving out about people who do have an interest in it? Why not shag off to another forum which you could give a toss about?

I don't go to the musicals forum and give out about them being 'obsessed' with musicals, and how much I couldn't give a toss about Grease.

Sarky

There's a Musicals forum? Blimey.

kylith

There's a forum for everything. There may even be an 'I'm so cool, I don't give a toss' forum.