Blaming the current governmant?

Ray Palmer

Am I the only one who thinks the anger people direct towards the current government is misguided? It isn't that I think the current government are great or any better than the last just that no matter who is in power would have to do pretty much the same thing.

The venom people direct towards individuals administrators currently in charge just seems way overboard. Do people really think the other parties would be any different?

I think it was amazing how the green party were blamed for a load of measures that were agreed before ever having any power.

Tombi!

Here's how politics work:
Current regime = they're terrible
Election time = parties lying to get votes and people vote for who has the best lies

Then it goes from step one again.

Dravokivich

It's their fault for not fixing what the previous government did!!!!!

:mad::eek::(:mad::eek::(:mad::eek::(

Ray Palmer

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's their fault for not fixing what the previous government did!!!!!

:mad::eek::(:mad::eek::(:mad::eek::(

What can they do? I have no idea, if you think there is a solution lets hear it.

Meant to also add that the promises made are made in a vacum of information. Once they get it they have to face reality

ScumLord

People are redirecting their anger onto other people so they don't have to look at themselves.

This is a democracy, the people are in charge so the fault ultimately rests at the feet of each and every citizen of this country.

admiralofthefleet

they inherited an almighty mess and are a bit slow to put things right but the public shouldnt forget what fianna fail did. we need to keep them out of power for as long as possible
one gripe i have with the current government is Varadker. he seems to have an opinion on everything but you rarely here him talking about transport

starlings

I think anger itself is misguided as people seem to get so completely blinded by it that they can't figure out what to actually do about their situation. Then again, why try to figure things out calmly when you can vote in the scapegoats government and blame them instead?

Seachmall

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken




I don't get to use this quote often enough.

golfball37

The poll is a misnomer. Of course the present govt are not to blame for where we are as a country.

They are to blame however for promising something different and not delivering.

seamus

It's because people want to see an instant reaction and get annoyed when they don't get one. The new government promise change. A month later nothing has changed and people start calling for a new election.

It's the main failing of democracy, a fundamental inability of most people to comprehend scale beyond their own selfish interests. That everything should be the way they want it and screw everyone else.

Frank Black

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It isn't that I think the current government are great or any better than the last just that no matter who is in power would have to do pretty much the same thing.

The same point would apply to the crazy spending during the boom which has got us in the current mess.
I can remember the give-away budgets of the early to mid 2000's - none of the opposition parties were urging any kind of restraint in spending. Quite the opposite - it was like a competition to see who could give away the most money the quickest.

Politicians from any party are ultimately more concerned with taking the decisions which they feel will guarantee their next election victory as opposed to making less populist decisions which would have been for the good of the country - and that's mostly the electorates fault.

AlekSmart

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

they inherited an almighty mess and are a bit slow to put things right but the public shouldnt forget what fianna fail did. we need to keep them out of power for as long as possible
one gripe i have with the current government is Varadker. he seems to have an opinion on everything but you rarely here him talking about transport

I think Sir,it's something about the Transport portfolio.

It seems to attract the somewhat less than stable Politician.

Mary O Rourke was'nt afraid to make snap decisions in her bath...

Seamus Brennan made decisions and announced them on a whim,to the bewilderment of many within his own department.

Mary Harney,although nominally a Minister for Health,subbed all that out to Prof Drum and devoted a huge chunk of her ministerial energy towards Public Transport issues.

I suppose it's a logical extension of the Tod Andrews..."Oul Protestant Solicitors from Carrickmines" ethos ......:D

seamus

black francis wrote: »

Politicians from any party are ultimately more concerned with taking the decisions which they feel will guarantee their next election victory as opposed to making less populist decisions which would have been for the good of the country - and that's mostly the electorates fault.

It's the catch-22 of democracy; If you always do the right thing, you will be kicked out. If you do the most popular thing instead, no matter how ill-advised, you will continue to be elected.

This is what people mean when they say that voters get the politicians that they deserve - because they vote for the people they like instead of the people who actually try to do the right thing.

Where To

I could write a longwinded answer but there's no need.

The general public are knobs, always have been, always will be.

hyperborean

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the anger people direct towards the current government is misguided? It isn't that I think the current government are great or any better than the last just that no matter who is in power would have to do pretty much the same thing. .

Its the civil servants running the departments making the real decisions, so anyone angry at elected officials is slightly deluded

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The venom people direct towards individuals administrators currently in charge just seems way overboard. Do people really think the other parties would be any different?.

For the most part politicians are trained liars, so its par for the course that they get abuse when caught out

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I think it was amazing how the green party were blamed for a load of measures that were agreed before ever having any power.

The Green party facitlitated FF in government, they bear responsibilty for not collapsing the government long before it happened, a bunch of cowards, glad they are gone.

super_furry

That's a pretty awful poll. Where's the 'it's the fault of the previous government' option?

boboldpilot

I'm angry at the current government not because they caused all this. But what they've done since they gained power, or more to the point. What they haven't done. All they've done is prove that politics and politicians in this country are barely competent and are more interested in their careers than doing the right thing for this country.

Worse still the reneged on most of their promises and continue to lie to us. They failed the tackle the public service pay bill, hiding behind Croke Park. Instead the went and cut the most vulnerable. Invented absurd taxes like the household charge and then completely mishandled the genuine protest against it.

Sure they're trying to deal with the PS issue now. But their fear of the unions and their desire to make Ireland look stable means they will compromise and in truth the PS will continue to suck up most of the tax take. Which of course means the rest of us will foot the bill.

But let's not forget where the real blame lies. Fianna Fail. It's shocking to think that people in this country are so stupid that they still support that bunch of incompetent crooks. I'd rather vote Sinn Fein or God help Democratic Unionist!

WesternZulu

The Irish election system works like this:

1. Fianna Fail are in power for 10-15 years, make a balls of the country through unsustainable economic policies.

2. Fine Gael coalition come in and clean up the mess for 1 term. Public not happy with the measures that have to be put in place.

3. Electorate forget about what Fianna Fail had done and vote them in again for another 10-15 years to mess things up again.

ejmaztec

ScumLord wrote: »

People are redirecting their anger onto other people so they don't have to look at themselves.

This is a democracy, the people are in charge so the fault ultimately rests at the feet of each and every citizen of this country.

I wish that all of the political parties would at least give us some proper candidates to vote for, because all we ever get to choose are the best of a mediocre bunch.

G Power

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's their fault for not fixing what the previous government did!!!!!

:mad::eek::(:mad::eek::(:mad::eek::(

exactly and they've now changed what they all knew to be illegal promissory notes and have been lying to 4,500,000 people that they've got us a deal when we've in actual fact just done what is done everytime there's a crash and kick the can as far down the road as is possible for someone else to fix.

they are well and truly responsible for their actions right now and since they've come to power!!

Celly Smunt

I believe they've been pushed into a corner they can't get out of.However,a lot of policies they have put in place have been regressive rather than searching for a progressive substitute in terms returning Ireland to growth.I don't think at this moment in time we can judge the current government on their decisions,i believe we'll find out whether they have done the right thing in the next 4-8 years if Ireland returns to some kind of growth or continues to diminish into depression.

We can't tell just yet.Right now i believe that this government will be tarnished by future generations,yet will in fact be the government who will set us on the road to prosperity through other governments by creating a solid foundation to work upon.

Ray Palmer

hyperborean wrote: »

Its the civil servants running the departments making the real decisions, so anyone angry at elected officials is slightly deluded



For the most part politicians are trained liars, so its par for the course that they get abuse when caught out




The Green party facitlitated FF in government, they bear responsibilty for not collapsing the government long before it happened, a bunch of cowards, glad they are gone.

The civil servants don't run things here. I have worked in the public service and sweeping changes normally come from the minister against the civil servants. What happened to FAS is a perfect illustration of this.

I think it is strange to blame the Green Party. They thought they could make changes but didn't really and got blamed for loads. Wouldn't call them cowards myself but each to their own. It is that kind of venom I don't get.

mark renton

*ment

ScumLord

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wish that all of the political parties would at least give us some proper candidates to vote for, because all we ever get to choose are the best of a mediocre bunch.

That will never change either. The people are absentee landlords. The government will continue to guess their way through based on the whims of the mob as long as the people refuse to lift a finger.

seamus

boboldpilot wrote: »

Worse still the reneged on most of their promises and continue to lie to us.

Care to provide a list of these promises and an explanation of how they've been reneged on?

I've heard this "broken promises" line a lot and yet no-one seems to be able to provide a list of these promises that have been broken, instead making vague regards to some kind of bailout deal and "not one red cent"

hyperborean

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The civil servants don't run things here. I have worked in the public service and sweeping changes normally come from the minister against the civil servants. What happened to FAS is a perfect illustration of this.

I think it is strange to blame the Green Party. They thought they could make changes but didn't really and got blamed for loads. Wouldn't call them cowards myself but each to their own. It is that kind of venom I don't get.

Is that you Gogerty?

Ray Palmer

boboldpilot wrote: »

Worse still the reneged on most of their promises and continue to lie to us. They failed the tackle the public service pay bill, hiding behind Croke Park. Instead the went and cut the most vulnerable. Invented absurd taxes like the household charge and then completely mishandled the genuine protest against it.

That would be a prime example of the view I don't get. The household charge wasn't brought in by this or the last government but agreed before that. Same goes for water charges.

Ray Palmer

hyperborean wrote: »

Is that you Gogerty?

I don't get it

krudler

ScumLord wrote: »

People are redirecting their anger onto other people so they don't have to look at themselves.

This is a democracy, the people are in charge so the fault ultimately rests at the feet of each and every citizen of this country.

but then on the flipside, what was the alternative? keep the same imbeciles who ran the place into the ground? can't win as a voter here, one group of fcukwits is replaced with another, and round it goes.

Celly Smunt

seamus wrote: »

Care to provide a list of these promises and an explanation of how they've been reneged on?

I've heard this "broken promises" line a lot and yet no-one seems to be able to provide a list of these promises that have been broken, instead making vague regards to some kind of bailout deal and "not one red cent"

Student registration fees is one that gets me big time even though it doesn't apply to me.Seeing the big smiley face on Ruari Quinn outside trinity on the run up to the election signing an oversized "contract" in front of student councils and media,dedicated to not raising to student contribution and later going on to slap it back in the face of the students.

seamus

pmcmahon wrote: »

Student registration fees is one that gets me big time even though it doesn't apply to me.Seeing the big smiley face on Ruari Quinn outside trinity on the run up to the election signing an oversized "contract" in front of student councils and media,dedicated to not raising to student contribution and later going on to slap it back in the face of the students.

Labour only promised not to re-introduce 3rd level fees.

They haven't been re-introduced right? 3rd level is still mostly free isn't it?

People be dumb. After the last FF poll topping i've changed emigration from an option to a reality i'm actively pursuing.

For every person who wants whats best for the WHOLE country, there are 5 who are unable to see past their own petty personal situations. Selfish country, with a selfish electorate who thinks that everyone else should pay for their own mistakes and shortcomings. Nobody is ever held responsible for anything and i just pity the good people of this nation who keep to themselves and quietly work towards a better tomorrow, because as i've said, this country is full of people who cant even envisage a better tomorrow; They just want want want right now and they want you (or as they would put it: 'The government') to pay.

Freddy Smelly

tbh i seen no real difference between fianna fail and fine geal

both parties lied to the people, took bribes from developers, took big pensions from tax payers, and ran up big expense bills that the tax payer must pay for.

Celly Smunt

seamus wrote: »

Labour only promised not to re-introduce 3rd level fees.

They haven't been re-introduced right? 3rd level is still mostly free isn't it?

They promised no increase on the student contribution.I has been raised by increasing the fee over three years from 2250-3000.It has already forced some to surrender their education.

seamus

pmcmahon wrote: »

They promised no increase on the student contribution.

I know I'm being nitpicky, but just for example's sake, can you provide a link which backs this up?

Frank Black

Most people who whine about 'broken promises' are Grade-A idiots to believe them in the first place.
It was an election campaign - politicians will say pretty much anything to get your vote.

It's depressing that their vote is accorded the same weight as my own.

Celly Smunt

seamus wrote: »

I know I'm being nitpicky, but just for example's sake, can you provide a link which backs this up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJRvuVEcM_E

Student contribution has gone up.

ScumLord

krudler wrote: »

but then on the flipside, what was the alternative? keep the same imbeciles who ran the place into the ground? can't win as a voter here, one group of fcukwits is replaced with another, and round it goes.

The people need to be more educated and involved in the day to day business of their local community. Having hundreds of eyes watching the people doing the work will keep them more honest. The wages should be drastically cut so that there's no social divide between regular people and elected officials. If more people understand what's going on in government there will be less of an expertise excuse from the people doing the job.

Even if that requires people dedicating a day of their week to affairs of the state I don't think that's too much to ask from the citizens.

Cee-Jay-Cee

They are worse than the last shower of imbeciles. They promised all sorts in the run up the election and have failed to deliver on one single promise they made. They are totally to blame. Enda Kenny is a smarmy little brown nosed shiite that panders to Europe at every opportunity. He has no integrity or back bone.

krudler

ScumLord wrote: »

The people need to be more educated and involved in the day to day business of their local community. Having hundreds of eyes watching the people doing the work will keep them more honest. The wages should be drastically cut so that there's no social divide between regular people and elected officials. If more people understand what's going on in government there will be less of an expertise excuse from the people doing the job.

Even if that requires people dedicating a day of their week to affairs of the state I don't think that's too much to ask from the citizens.

Ain't nobody got time fo that!

Really though I agree but this is Ireland, we whinge and do nothing, and I include myself in that.

whatsername42

CJC999 wrote: »

They are worse than the last shower of imbeciles. They promised all sorts in the run up the election and have failed to deliver on one single promise they made. They are totally to blame. Enda Kenny is a smarmy little brown nosed shiite that panders to Europe at every opportunity. He has no integrity or back bone.

and Micheal Martin is different because...oh wait...

pragmatic1

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

tbh i seen no real difference between fianna fail and fine geal

both parties lied to the people, took bribes from developers, took big pensions from tax payers, and ran up big expense bills that the tax payer must pay for.

FF are in a whole other league when it comes to corruption. Oh and they also completely destroyed the country.

intellectual dosser

I got a leaflet through the letterbox this week from Derek Nolan TD, it was the first time I'd read something from a member of the current Government where there wasn't some snide comment about the previous Government. It's true that FF took the actions that ruined our economy, but I despised the way the current Government tried to use them as a yardstick.

Its been nearly two years, and clearly people are forgetting about the squandering done by FF. Without the familiar faces (Ahern/Cowen/Lenihan) FF are going to find it easier than you'd think to portray themselves as a regenerated party and harvest votes.

Fair play to Derek Nolan talking about the present, and the future.

Ray Palmer

CJC999 wrote: »

They are worse than the last shower of imbeciles. They promised all sorts in the run up the election and have failed to deliver on one single promise they made. They are totally to blame. Enda Kenny is a smarmy little brown nosed shiite that panders to Europe at every opportunity. He has no integrity or back bone.

Do you really think if any other party was in power it would be different?
Again most of the agreements made now are a result of no other choices.
It is very easy to make promises until you see the figures. Once you get the information you can't fulfil the promises. Do you think we could have got a much better deal? They couldn't ignore promises made in the state's name.

minidazzler

ScumLord wrote: »

People are redirecting their anger onto other people so they don't have to look at themselves.

This is a democracy, the people are in charge so the fault ultimately rests at the feet of each and every citizen of this country.

No, this is a Republic, so the people are represented by the people in charge, who don't necessarily do what we want/expect them to do.

It's the fault of all major political parties who have been in power in the past few decades. They all were playing up to Corporations and Banks. Simple as. You can't lay it at one.

Irishcrx

Where To wrote: »

I could write a longwinded answer but there's no need.

The general public are knobs, always have been, always will be.

Agreed , sure look at poor Enda getting all teared up the other day.

'Ah look how much Enda really cares , isn't he a great lad'

Once Enda gets home to his luxury house and wipes off the crocadile tears he'll care about one thing , having a nice scotch and a smile knowing he's just bagged a few more votes with his oscar winning performance of ' Enda...an Apology full of crap'.

sfwcork

Endy kenny before power:

Its wrong to tax somebody on their home AND Claiming they will burn the bond holders

ahhhh hows that going for ya enda

Valetta

CJC999 wrote: »

They are worse than the last shower of imbeciles. They promised all sorts in the run up the election and have failed to deliver on one single promise they made. They are totally to blame. Enda Kenny is a smarmy little brown nosed shiite that panders to Europe at every opportunity. He has no integrity or back bone.

Totally to blame for what?

666irishguy

Hard to blame the current government for everything in my eyes, they have inherited the greatest mess that any peace time government has ever had to deal with. People just seem to want want want with no ability to see any distance down the road. I see trade union's looking for more money today, while they can't seem to ask the question whether it would be better to take a hit now and still have a job in a year or get more cash now and then bang their fists and whinge when the cash needs to be cut next time by letting off jobs.
The Government of our small country can't control the world economy, which people seem to forget is what will be the biggest part of things turning around.
They can't get the European leaders to pull their heads out of their holes and do anything more than half ass gestures and programs, influenced by the same playing up to their own electorate as goes on here.
They didn't walk into a room with bankers and come out a few hours later with what was essentially an agreement for a sovereign nation to cover private big money gambles.
They weren't the ones who didn't have the balls or brains to do anything more than tow the line and then go cap in hand in desperation to the IMF. I think the poll should have the option: "They can't be blamed for the mess they inherited, but they could do more to right it".

juice1304

The debt of the country was manageable they did'nt have to agree to pay the debt of a private company.

newport2

seamus wrote: »

It's the catch-22 of democracy; If you always do the right thing, you will be kicked out. If you do the most popular thing instead, no matter how ill-advised, you will continue to be elected.

This is what people mean when they say that voters get the politicians that they deserve - because they vote for the people they like instead of the people who actually try to do the right thing.

+1

Polls over the last couple of weeks confirming and re-confirming that FF are now the most popular party in this country just establish and re-establish how many true idiots there are in this country.