Taking the plunge

mothoin

Hi long time lurker of this forum, first time poster!

I am in the process of buying my first house, its out in the country in Kildare, bit of land and all that, I produce sport horses for an income!

anyway, now that I will have my own house, I am going to buy a rifle, Ideally I would like a shotgun and two rifles! But baby steps!

So there is a gun club in the area, and alot of farmers who are clients of my father, so permissions etc. should be gotten farily eaily from the few conversations I have had.

Basically what I need to know is what is the best way for a first time owner to go about getting into it, obviously I don't want to blow a huge amount of cash straight off! any tips on what calibre i should start with? I would like to go foxing(hunted them with hounds for many years now!) .223 is what I would like to get, but should I apply for something smaller first?

I got some tips from one lad in a gun shop, e.g for applying in kildare apparently kildare town is the best garda station to go to, and that for getting a moderater on the licence I should make the case of there being alot of horses and livestock on the land surrounding me?

So really any tips to aid me on the path to getting a rifle!

and i might even blog it here, so others can use it in the future!

yubabill1

My personal opinion - ansd it's only one man's opinion - is to start with a .22LR.

You can take foxes with the shotgun, for now, plenty of cartridges to take care of business.

The 22LR is a great round to learn with, presuming you have essentially very little experience, which may or may not be true. Some say the increased recoil and noise of .223's etc can give you bad habits, that may be very difficult to overcome.

I know several people who went from 22LR to 223 and back again!

mothoin

sorry should have said, I have quie a bit of experience, was defence forces trained, have shot 9mm to 105mm!

Was also part of national winning falling plates team in the df!

also quite a bit of experience from living with an aivd hunter in galway who had quite an array firepower between himself and his brother!

but I will take all suggestions!

LIFFY FISHING

The best all rounder you could start with would be a .17HMR , great flat round.
Will take care of rabbitts, foxes and grey crows.
The Hornandy 17 grain ballistic tip is a brilliant cartridge, a box of 50 roughly 20euro.
In relation to your application for a firearm , you dont get to pick the Garda station who has a reasonable FO, you Have to apply to your local Garda station , who carries out all of the nessicary enquireys, ie referances from land owners, character referances, doctors referances and club.
On a first time application you will be required to carry out a proficiency course, and you may find an apllication for a shotgun be a better first application as a rifle no matter what caliber you choose is sometimes regarded as a step up from a shotgun, that is not a fact but an opinion.
Which ever road you go down shoot safe and have fun.

EWQuinn

Hopefully the 105 came with a good recoil pad :-)

I would surely second what yubabill1 says, and in my view everybody should have a good .22LR in their toolbox. An obvious thing to say that is sometimes not so obvious, make sure anything you get fits well, especially in prone with bibod or however you intend to shoot.

The other day I shot a friend's CZ rifle (his kid's rifle), I think a CZ 550 but not sure, in .243 that shoots 1/2 MOA out of the box. CZ rifles are popular in ROI, and I would be taking a hard look there. Otherwise you have some of the best rifles in the world available including the Finns, and cost effective US stuff like Savage with outstanding out of the box triggers.

As to caliber, .223 has minimal recoil, and will do everything up through fox, and more if you want to stretch, .243, .270, or .308 will do the rest, w/ a bunch of new accurate/powerful cartridges in between. It it were me and I was after deer and up, I would go above the .243, especially if you get a .223. Shopping for the gun is part of the fun good luck

Cass

Ordinarily i would agree 100% with Yubabill1 on the .22lr (rimfire) as a first gun. It is great for practice, not so harsh as to develop any bad habits, cheap to run, and usually easiest to license. However bearing i mind what you said;

mothoin wrote: »

sorry should have said, I have quie a bit of experience, was defence forces trained, have shot 9mm to 105mm!

Was also part of national winning falling plates team in the df!

also quite a bit of experience from living with an aivd hunter in galway who had quite an array firepower between himself and his brother!

This would show a history of previous experience. If you could get a letter (short note really) from the people you have hunted with, and show your service in the DF, then this may act as your competence, and save you from doing a course.

mothoin wrote: »

Basically what I need to know is what is the best way for a first time owner to go about getting into it, obviously I don't want to blow a huge amount of cash straight off!

The red announcement at the top of the main forum holds all the legal, administration information needed to get the forms, fill them in, and other stuff relating to the application process so no need for me to repeat it all unless there is a specific part you are not sure on.

any tips on what calibre i should start with? I would like to go foxing(hunted them with hounds for many years now!) .223 is what I would like to get, but should I apply for something smaller first?

As said above normally i would say .22lr however with your previous experience i believe you could easily adapt to a .223 with little to no fuss. It is a great caliber in terms of range of ammo, rifles, cheap enough to run, readily available, not hard kicking by any standards, powerful enough to give you a clean kill on any animal from fox to rabbit, etc. Other calibers are good, but they lack in terms of what the .223 can do. For example the .17hmr is a good round, but limited in range, and easily affected by wind. .22 Hornet is also good, but again lacks the range of a .223, and is more expensive to run (ammo wise), and would not be as easily sold on for an upgrade later.

With the ,223 you need to be competent. Unlike the other smaller calibers the round can travel 1,000 yards easily, and you need to be sure of your backstop, zero, and your abilities with a rifle.

Models available in Ireland are CZ, Tikka, Savage, Sako, Remmy, Marlin, etc. The most popular brands would be CZ and Remmy. In Cz you are looking at the 527. It comes in 4 or 5 models. From timber (standard) up to laminate, and then the Kevlar (synthetic) model. They vary in price from €800 to €1,250 new. The Remmy also comes in numerous models. They range from €700 up to €1,450.

Second hand rifles can be picked up for between €550 to €1,100 however these usually come with scope, rings, bipod, sling, moderator or some combination of such accessories. The .223 is not a barrel burner meaning it is good for many thousands of rounds so buying second hand is probably the best option for yourself.

The best bet for now is to go to a few dealer, not just the one. You will find similar models in each shop, but may find yourself paying less for the same gun in a different dealer. Remember with times as they are it's a buyers market. You, buying cash with no trade, are in a very strong position. Do not buy the first rifle you see. It also helps to bring an experienced shooter with you that knows what to look for in terms of second hand rifles. However be mindful not to let them choose a gun they like. It's your money, and you must like, and live with the purchase.

Ammo costs can range between €11 to €28 per box of 20 depending on the type/brand you buy.

I got some tips from one lad in a gun shop, e.g for applying in Kildare apparently Kildare town is the best Garda station to go to, and that for getting a moderator on the licence I should make the case of there being a lot of horses and livestock on the land surrounding me?

Not putting the s**ts up you, but i've heard some stories from Kildare about the Super not granting moderators or at least being hard to get them off him. Keep the letter short, sweet, and factual when applying for the mod.

deerhunter1

mothoin wrote: »

sorry should have said, I have quie a bit of experience, was defence forces trained, have shot 9mm to 105mm!

Was also part of national winning falling plates team in the df!

also quite a bit of experience from living with an aivd hunter in galway who had quite an array firepower between himself and his brother!

but I will take all suggestions!

I would go straight for a 223, with your experience, you buy a .22 now you will be trading sooner than you think, thus loosing money, also i would purchase a 17HMR for grey crows/magpies the odd fox etc

clivej

What should you get. The big question that everyone will give you a different answer too. :D

If your going to shoot foxes then get the .223 end of story. I have the CZ 527 in .223 with the Kevlar stock, great shooting machine that if you buy you won't ever want to sell on.
CZ made good firearms and they are well liked here. DON'T get the Lux version in any CZ model as it's for using with the open/iron sights.

For shooting rabbits and other vermin then the .22lr rifle will do you grand. You can also shoot these with a shotgun.

Again I have had the CZ in .22lr models in the Style and Varmint. Just buying the Varmint model again now. Again dont buy the Lux model.

Ring around the dealers for the best prices going and there are plenty of good bargains to be had now.


MY advice is get the .223, then the .22lr (fun rifle to use and cheap to run)

One shot on kill

Just because your in the army it doesn't mean you have a world of experience either by the way. Ye you have a lot of experience firing on a range which is different from hunting during the day and nite. For example just identifying a fox under a red filter its a little bit harder to be 100% sure of what your shooting at.

Now that's not to say you don't have hunting experience because I don't know infairness but out in the bogs and fields you have to learn a bit more rather than just letting rounds of at targets.

Most of it infairness is common sense and ye you prob know already like not shooting through hedges not shooting up hills etc etc etc. but you local super needs to be convinced. We all know story's about even guards and soldiers getting refused firearms.

A cz 22 is a lot of fun to shoot even for the more experienced shooters a shot gun is aswell and there both cheap enough to run and to buy. Saying a cz 22 will loose value and you will loose money isn't really true they hold value well enough to be fair.

In my opinion get a smaller rifle learn the ropes of hunting aswell and have a bit if fun and see if its for you. With a smaller rifle you have more chance if being allowed out on land and getting a licence granted. Some farmers as good friends and all they are just don't like rifles been out on there land especially the bigger calibers.

But buy for what your going to shoot and best of luck your more than welcome to tag along with me some nite.

Conmaicne Mara

mothoin wrote: »

Basically what I need to know is what is the best way for a first time owner to go about getting into it, obviously I don't want to blow a huge amount of cash straight off! any tips on what calibre i should start with? I would like to go foxing(hunted them with hounds for many years now!) .223 is what I would like to get, but should I apply for something smaller first?

Then go for a .223, no reason why you should be refused one once you have good reason to own it. Get those reasons well nailed down from multiple land owners, think lamb, fowl, game bird protection. Same for reasons for a silencer, have a good long think about why you'd need one, don't just rely on one reason.

mothoin

Thanks for all the advice lads, have alot to ponder, might go window shopping again today!

Turns out the owner of sportsden is a first cousin of a friend of mine, so might head up and have a look at what he has!

Taking all things into consideration, I might start with a .22lr, then just add another .223 onto the licence later on, is this difficult?

Also having looked at the pricesonline, you can get quite alot second hand! so this will be the route i will go, as regards getting a gunsmith to look at a potential purchase, how would this be done?

LIFFY FISHING

mothoin wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice lads, have alot to ponder, might go window shopping again today!

Turns out the owner of sportsden is a first cousin of a friend of mine, so might head up and have a look at what he has!

Taking all things into consideration, I might start with a .22lr, then just add another .223 onto the licence later on, is this difficult?

Also having looked at the pricesonline, you can get quite alot second hand! so this will be the route i will go, as regards getting a gunsmith to look at a potential purchase, how would this be done?

You cant 'add' a .223 onto your licence all applications for firearms are treated as a new application , unless you are substition a same for same caliber, often happens you could be granted a .22 and refused a .223.
If its a .223 you want than apply for that no point messing about, if your FO is happy with your application and you meet the defined criteria you should be good to go.

One shot on kill

What Garda station will you be applying to if it Kildare town pm me and ill give you a contact of a lad that can advise you. After all they have a fair idea of the supers mind set and views on things.