"There are many people living in comfort in who do not care about the disadvantaged

steddyeddy

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

uch

In comfort in,,, what ??

Capt'n Midnight

Rich and powerful people have a sense of entitlement. Been observed in surveys.

Global poverty could be ended if the 100 richest people donated a quarter of last years income. Not their assets, just part of their income in the middle of a recession.

orestes

Sorry, I'm too busy chuckling at the irony of the Pinky and the Brain avatars of the first two posts to care.

uch

orestes wrote: »

Sorry, I'm too busy chuckling at the irony of the Pinky and the Brain avatars of the first two posts to care.

So what will we do today Brain.....

steddyeddy

orestes wrote: »

Sorry, I'm too busy chuckling at the irony of the Pinky and the Brain avatars of the first two posts to care.

I'm not really a mouse but that's not really ironic to be honest.

Honestly, how much more do you want the state to do before people start looking after themselves? Nobody likes seeing their fellow citizens in squalor, but with the amounts that go out on welfare/social housing/childrens benefit/med cards etc, the only possible conclusion - should someone be forced to go without certain necessities - is that the money is being misspent by the parent.

What would you do, Eddy?

Tom_Cruise

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

steddyeddy

uch wrote: »

So what will we do today Brain.....

Same thing we do every night Pinky...try to take over the world!

Slutmonkey57b

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

There are certainly thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, who are living with extreme grammar deficits.

girl2

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

Tom…do you really have to ask this question?

There is no doubt there are people livin in extreme poverty - with no food, no money for electric or heating, there are some people out there who are gettin things very very very tough.

delw

uch wrote: »

So what will we do today Brain.....

"The same as we do every day........Try & take over the world"

Uriel.

What? Are there no workhouses? No prisons?

collegeme

I don't think they really have a clue about what the disadvantaged have to go through.
You see, i think that some feel their taxes already pay for the disadvanaged. I know of a good few who feel that their taxes pay for the dole etc. They sort of just see it as someone is getting free money from their pocket.
Btw ...people living in comfort well over 100k salaries in my opinion

steddyeddy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Honestly, how much more do you want the state to do before people start looking after themselves? Nobody likes seeing their fellow citizens in squalor, but with the amounts that go out on welfare/social housing/childrens benefit/med cards etc, the only possible conclusion - should someone be forced to go without certain necessities - is that the money is being misspent by the parent.

What would you do, Eddy?

Hey I am writing from mobile here so sorry for thecshort reply. I will give a longer one when I reach a computer. Personally though I would seriously redistribute welfare payments. I think the state are helping the wrong people (some of time anyway).

collegeme

steddyeddy wrote: »

Personally though I would seriously redistribute welfare payments. I think the state are helping the wrong people (some of time anyway).

Couldn't agree more. The whole welfare syste is a complete sham.
I know of a case where a daughter in her early 20s who never worked a day in her life was getting double the welfare of her father who was unemployed over 2 years having previously worked for the past 35years. Both lived in the same household. Now thats a fupping disgrace.

Cookie_Monster

There are many people living in comfort in who do not care about the disadvantaged

There sure are.

The apathy stems from seeing huge quantities of tax money being wasted year after year on social welfare and protection with very little actual result on a societal level IMO. Nothing has changed in the last couple of decades, if anything the problems have only gotten worse with more money wasted and more people left behind.
I reckon there's also a certain element of "it's their own fault, having umpteen dozen kids and keeping the poverty circle going" in people attitudes

steddyeddy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There sure are.

The apathy stems from seeing huge quantities of tax money being wasted year after year on social welfare and protection with very little actual result on a societal level IMO. Nothing has changed in the last couple of decades, if anything the problems have only gotten worse with more money wasted and more people left behind.
I reckon there's also a certain element of "it's their own fault, having umpteen dozen kids and keeping the poverty circle going" in people attitudes

Well you see thats the point I was going to make. People with large welfare dependent families are not the poorest in society. Theres a lot of people that are far poorer than that.

carlmango11

I think a lot of Irish people have started to become quite bitter towards those in receipt of many social welfare payments.

In these hard economic times people can't help but be enraged by the seemingly endless tales of friends and family who seem to have everything handed to them by the Government while others are working 9-5 struggling to get by. I know someone who was offered a job in IKEA and would have ended up earning €4 more per week if they took the job than to stay at home on their welfare payments. There needs to be an incentive to work for what you have. The Government is sending out a message to one half of the country that they don't need to work and telling the other half that anything they do earn will be taken from them to pay the non-workers.

Middle-class people's taxes are being raised to pay single mothers to live with their boyfriends in social housing. Middle-class people's taxes are being used to buy 13-kid families €230,000 5-bed houses in Donegal. We have a right to be annoyed by this.

Cookie_Monster

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well you see thats the point I was going to make. People with large welfare dependent families are not the poorest in society. Theres a lot of people that are far poorer than that.

Which are the people left behind as I mentioned, even by the welfare system, such as those living on the street and so forth.

StillWaters

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

Yes

We are actually quite a right wing country.
O'Cuiv has a cheek though hasn't he?

hames

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

with the amounts that go out on welfare/social housing/childrens benefit/med cards etc, the only possible conclusion[...] is that the money is being misspent by the parent.

Or that we have suffered an enormous economic collapse

You might have read about it in one of the papers.

Social welfare spending must be examined in light of statistics on economic activity which are, frankly, appalling.

To follow that, a deduction that economic activity stats are down to anything but the economic collapse would be unreasonably eccentric.

Stheno

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

Yes there are. Not many who are genuinely in extreme poverty, but most of those in extreme poverty are there due to lack of education, an inability to manage on a small budget, and some are there also due to addiction.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There sure are.

The apathy stems from seeing huge quantities of tax money being wasted year after year on social welfare and protection with very little actual result on a societal level IMO. Nothing has changed in the last couple of decades, if anything the problems have only gotten worse with more money wasted and more people left behind.
I reckon there's also a certain element of "it's their own fault, having umpteen dozen kids and keeping the poverty circle going" in people attitudes

I pay a lot of tax comparable to my income and I'm not even close to the 100k mark, and I do wonder at where it goes. I see the waste, the lack of reform and I wonder why I work hard to earn a bonus that means a huge difference to me in my life, when half or more of that bonus goes to the tax system and I get very little benefit, and don't see it being spent wisely.

I have been unemployed luckily for brief periods, and appreciated the state support, but less than a quarter of one years tax/prsi/usc would pay for all of the unemployment benefit I've ever claimed.

I do wonder why we as a country have never ever made an effort like the UK to introduce a longer school day with breakfast clubs to make sure children get a good meal, and after school clubs, surely investing in the young will reap rewards?

carlmango11 wrote: »

I think a lot of Irish people have started to become quite bitter towards those in receipt of many social welfare payments.

In these hard economic times people can't help but be enraged by the seemingly endless tales of friends and family who seem to have everything handed to them by the Government while others are working 9-5 struggling to get by. I know someone who was offered a job in IKEA and would have ended up earning €4 more per week if they took the job than to stay at home on their welfare payments. There needs to be an incentive to work for what you have. The Government is sending out a message to one half of the country that they don't need to work and telling the other half that anything they do earn will be taken from them to pay the non-workers.

Middle-class people's taxes are being raised to pay single mothers to live with their boyfriends in social housing. Middle-class people's taxes are being used to buy 13-kid families €230,000 5-bed houses in Donegal. We have a right to be annoyed by this.

Election manifestos, Labour said no to cutting benefit, FG said no to raising taxes, instead they are doing it by stealth, possibly the most disgusting cut (and I'm no fan of endless welfare) was for carers who took a 27% cut in the grant they get to give them a break once a year from 24/7 duty minding those who are too ill to take care of themselves, and who without carers would be costing us many times that in State care, of which we cannot guarantee the quality.
Compare that to a poster on here today who is on the dole, and saving €100 a week, and asked a working person why they could "only" save €200 per month.

Something wrong with the system and it's going to take a while to change.

If you are comfortable, ask yourself what you do.

Do you see a food drive in a supermarket locally and pick up a couple of bits (not tins of beans) to add?
Do you support local charities?
Have you thought about supporting Vincent de Paul?
Would you become an adult literacy tutor and help someone change their lives?
Have you ever bought someone homeless a cup of coffee/tea and a sandwich?

These are all very small things, that may take people out of their comfort zone, but make an enormous difference.

And at the end of the day, an awful lot of us can say, there but for the grace of whomever, go I.

It's not a massive effort to make, to give something back, and you might be surprised at making a difference.

ManMade

Would it not be these "people living in comfort" who fund all the charities, who do great work?

This isn't a socialist country yet. People should be allowed enjoy their hard earned money, yet at the same time no one should be living in complete poverty.

It's not that people don't care, they pay a lot of tax for social spending which unfortunately is mismanaged by the government.

Galwayguy35

I think it's the low and middle income earners that are the disadvantaged here in Ireland.

Wages seem to be remaining static but every year the Government takes that little bit extra like the €5 per week in Decembers budget, later on this year we have the Property Tax to deal with and next year water charges.

People who genuinely can't find work and those who lost their jobs I feel sorry for, but hearing people who have never worked a day in their life whinging about how they want more and expecting the hard pressed taxpayer to fund their lifestyle is a bit much TBH.

hames

hames wrote: »

Or that we have suffered an enormous economic collapse

You might have read about it in one of the papers.

Social welfare spending must be examined in light of statistics on economic activity which are, frankly, appalling.

To follow that, a deduction that economic activity stats are down to anything but the economic collapse would be unreasonably eccentric.

Prices are dropping, competition is rising. One could argue that your dole today will get you more than your dole five years ago. So why the poverty?

Stheno

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Prices are dropping, competition is rising. One could argue that your dole today will get you more than your dole five years ago. So why the poverty?

A recent report in the papers said food inflation on basic items was up 12% the past two years.

That's a fair chunk of change if every euro makes a difference to you.

Smidge

Stheno wrote: »

Yes there are. Not many who are genuinely in extreme poverty, but most of those in extreme poverty are there due to lack of education, an inability to manage on a small budget, and some are there also due to addiction.



I pay a lot of tax comparable to my income and I'm not even close to the 100k mark, and I do wonder at where it goes. I see the waste, the lack of reform and I wonder why I work hard to earn a bonus that means a huge difference to me in my life, when half or more of that bonus goes to the tax system and I get very little benefit, and don't see it being spent wisely.

I have been unemployed luckily for brief periods, and appreciated the state support, but less than a quarter of one years tax/prsi/usc would pay for all of the unemployment benefit I've ever claimed.

I do wonder why we as a country have never ever made an effort like the UK to introduce a longer school day with breakfast clubs to make sure children get a good meal, and after school clubs, surely investing in the young will reap rewards?


Election manifestos, Labour said no to cutting benefit, FG said no to raising taxes, instead they are doing it by stealth, possibly the most disgusting cut (and I'm no fan of endless welfare) was for carers who took a 27% cut in the grant they get to give them a break once a year from 24/7 duty minding those who are too ill to take care of themselves, and who without carers would be costing us many times that in State care, of which we cannot guarantee the quality.
Compare that to a poster on here today who is on the dole, and saving €100 a week, and asked a working person why they could "only" save €200 per month.

Something wrong with the system and it's going to take a while to change.

If you are comfortable, ask yourself what you do.

Do you see a food drive in a supermarket locally and pick up a couple of bits (not tins of beans) to add?
Do you support local charities?
Have you thought about supporting Vincent de Paul?
Would you become an adult literacy tutor and help someone change their lives?
Have you ever bought someone homeless a cup of coffee/tea and a sandwich?

These are all very small things, that may take people out of their comfort zone, but make an enormous difference.

And at the end of the day, an awful lot of us can say, there but for the grace of whomever, go I.

It's not a massive effort to make, to give something back, and you might be surprised at making a difference.

In fairness I try not to get involved with these threads as they usually end up badly but come on, do you really believe that someone on 200 euro a week is saving 100 euro of that and is genuine and is the norm????

There is no way that this person who made this statement is solely supporting themselves, I mean seriously folks think about it. You know how much food, clothes, electric, heat, phone, internet, clothes, bins etc etc cost.

It just doesn't add up.

They are not being truthful and are more than likely taking the mick for their own ends(internet being what it is)

Zebra3

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

Yes, and it starts with the parasites on the gravy train in Kildare Street.

Stheno

Smidge wrote: »

In fairness I try not to get involved with these threads as they usually end up badly but come on, do you really believe that someone on 200 euro a week is saving 100 euro of that and is genuine and is the norm????

There is no way that this person who made this statement is solely supporting themselves, I mean seriously folks think about it. You know how much food, clothes, electric, heat, phone, internet, clothes, bins etc etc cost.

It just doesn't add up.

They are not being truthful and are more than likely taking the mick for their own ends(internet being what it is)

Yes I do, and I'm genuinely posting something from another thread, whether they were trolling or not, such people do the welfare system here a disservice, either by lying on a forum and fomenting dissent amongst those who believe our system is too generous, or by mocking those who are trying to make a living and save a little. It's an easy thread to find it's called saving and is here in AH

phoenix999

carlmango11 wrote: »

.... Middle-class people's taxes are being used to buy 13-kid families €230,000 5-bed houses in Donegal. We have a right to be annoyed by this.

And some of us are more annoyed about the scumbags who then burn down such properties leaving everyone out of pocket.

Henlars67

There is a significant amount of well off people in Ireland who have a "Let them eat cake" attitude

Smidge

Stheno wrote: »

Yes I do, and I'm genuinely posting something from another thread, whether they were trolling or not, such people do the welfare system here a disservice, either by lying on a forum and fomenting dissent amongst those who believe our system is too generous, or by mocking those who are trying to make a living and save a little. It's an easy thread to find it's called saving and is here in AH

I'm not doubting that you read that so no disrespect meant to you.

I agree with what you have said above and tbh it absolutely infuriates me, the attitude of people who feel somewhat superior to those in receipt of SW.

I feel this acutely as a friend of mine is in receipt of sw.

Long story short.
Husband self employed, got horrid disability
Husband not granted disability
She had to apply for JS.
Three children
Four years on(so technically they are what AH's hate, the LONG TERM unemployed)

He cannot work(which in itself has been soul destroying for him as a man and former provider).
She cannot work as he cannot look after the children, home etc.

They have the same commitments as everyone else, heat, food, clothes, mortgage(for which they get no state help as they are no longer paying off interest, only capital).

She had a tenner left last Saturday and was debating, oil tank or car, oil tank or car.

She went up this week to sign on(once a month) and said she never felt as shamed in her whole life.

Can anyone really want to live like this by choice???
Who are the "worthy" in societies opinions to receive SW?

As you rightly say Stheno, it is just dissent fodder.

hames

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Prices are dropping, competition is rising. One could argue that your dole today will get you more than your dole five years ago. So why the poverty?

That's really badly incorrect; core consumer prices reached an all time high (of all time) in the second half of 2012. As another poster demonstrated, basic food items, which hit those on very low incomes and on social welfare, are some of the most badly hit.

Not to mention the fact that while these costs have increased, social welfare payments have fallen by almost 10% in a few years, in the case of jobseekers payments.

I actually think part of the problem, especially in online content is that some people associate criticism of social welfare spending with belonging to middle class, established society. Rabid defensiveness of private enterprise (as though that were something the rest of us oppose) becomes an identifier for those who self-consciously bleat on about the squeezed middle.

I think that's a fallacious (and a pretty pathetic) association to make, but perhaps it explains the willingness to jump on this factually unjustified bandwagon; je suis de la petite bourgeoisie.

hfallada

People who live in comfort have worked hard for it. There is no upper class in Ireland like in the us who have inherited millions in wealth. Most hard working people here pay a large proportion of their income in taxes.

Rather than in the us where the rich pay hardly any taxes and the poor families live in one room in compounds run by the churches because the us government doesn't give them help. Plus if they get seriously sick. They might die as they don't have health insurance. That's struggling. Struggling isn't not bothering to get a education so you can have a job cause you wanna spend your life on welfare.

It sounds like labour are trying to connect with the people that have voted them in. But who they have let down.

Cookie_Monster

hames wrote: »

That's really badly incorrect; core consumer prices reached an all time high (of all time) in the second half of 2012. As another poster demonstrated, basic food items, which hit those on very low incomes and on social welfare, are some of the most badly hit.

but the amount of income spent on food in general is still at all time low.
In Ireland only roughly 7.5% for example, go back 50 or 100 or 500 years and it'd be far far higher than that. Food is as cheap as it's ever been.

http://wsm.wsu.edu/researcher/WSMaug11_billions.pdf (little bit out of date in fairness 03-08)
Looking at that chart it's easy to see that poorer 3rd world nations are still caught in the situation of paying huge amounts of income on food in comparison to here were its only a tiny fraction.

hames

hfallada wrote: »

People who live in comfort have worked hard for it.

Some times, not all the time. In which case, I'm not sure that it is relevant.

If it is found that a man has not worked hard for his fortune, should his fortune be taken from him? Is he less deserving of it?

If a child's parents are 'layabouts' as some might describe them, should that child suffer for his parents actions?

We are sailing perilously close to a quasi Victorian moral standpoint on "the deserving poor" here.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but the amount of income spent on food in general is still at all time low.

In general, yes; but not in the lowest paid socio economic groups, who spend a disproportionately large portion of their income on basic living costs like food. As we know, these basic costs have themselves risen disproportionately to other costs, eg. luxury goods.

I agree that people are worse off again in 3rd world countries. That's of little comfort to an individual struggling to pay buy food for themselves today in Ireland, however. They won't feed their children on that statistical tidbit.

hames

mikemac1 wrote: »

If these are young children then your friend will get getting 277.40 per week in jobseekers.
The husband can't get disability but since he is unemployed then he can claim job seekers too so that's 402.20 per week just for jobseekers, he gets dependants rate.

For three children the weekly child benefit amount will be 98.70 per week.

Then there is family income supplement which is 60% of the difference between 703 euro and 402.20 euro. Child benefit is not counted as income.
This gives 180.48 for FIS

why are they getting FIS and Jobseekers/ IQA simultaneously in your calculation?

mikemac1

Massive fail on my part

I thought FIS was for all but it seems it's for working people.

I need to check these figures again, post deleted until then

Still works out as 492.20 euro per week I believe between jobseekers and child benefit.
Smidge says they are both long term unemployed so the husband gets IQA rate

Smidge

mikemac1 wrote: »

If these are young children then your friend will get getting 277.40 per week in jobseekers.
The husband can't get disability but since he is unemployed then he can claim job seekers too so that's 402.20 per week just for jobseekers, he gets dependants rate.

For three children the weekly child benefit amount will be 90 per week.

Then there is family income supplement which is 60% of the difference between 703 euro and 402.20 euro. Child benefit is not counted as income.
This gives 180.48 for FIS

Two adults not working with 3 children and they are getting 672.68 euro for the family.
Yes it won't pay the mortgage but welfare has never been designed for that, they will have to sort that out with their bank.

Small family and they will have lots of bills for sure but then so do the rest of us as you say, under 700 euro per week is not ungenerous from the State.
There are working families in low paid jobs who don't earn that much in a week.
So maybe working people do look at the long term unemployed and wonder.

All figures from here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie

I have absolutely no idea how you came to that figure.
Her rate is= 188
His is =124.80
3 children = 89.40
Total = 402.20

I can tell you that they are not getting FIS!!!

Have no idea where you came up with your figures considering you seem to have used citizens information

You are having a laugh saying they get six hundred odd euro a week, check CI again and then contact SW, see what you would be exactly be entitled to.

Very disingenuous post.


Also another reason I don't usually get involved in these threads(apart from blood pressure!) do you really think families GET this kind of money you posted and yet others work???

mikemac1

Mistake made on the FIS, mistake corrected before you quoted me

I can do no more

mikemac1

Smidge wrote: »

Four years on(so technically they are what AH's hate, the LONG TERM unemployed)

No hate in my post

hames

They are at about 50% of what they could be earning if they both worked in minimum wage jobs.

In my opinion, this is a very low wage, but it balances well with the core objectives of the Republic; i.e. to meet the minimum and core needs of all of the children of the state, whilst still incentivising work.

Harsh for the parents, but hopefully the children don't feel it too badly.

I have nothing but sympathy for their situation as parents caught up in a mess that they did not make.

Nobody can take comfort in that sort of figure, I would say.

Smidge

mikemac1 wrote: »

Mistake made on the FIS, mistake corrected before you quoted me

I can do no more

Look Mike, not having a pop at you but their mortgage is 170 per week(not a big mortgage by anyone ones standard) but that leaves them with 232 to pay everything!!!

Shopping for 5 is at a very minimum 100
That leaves 132 for everything else, oil, phone,electric, school(and believe me its every week they are looking for a fiver here, two euro there)bins, water, internet, clothes, transport, house maintenance, I could go on and on.

Smidge

mikemac1 wrote: »

No hate in my post

But surely you can understand given your mistake, how mistakes about SW recipients are regularly given as standard???

hames

I know Smidge, but what are they doing in that mortgage?

That couple, being LT unemployed, on that income, clearly need to be in local authority housing.

mikemac1

Smidge wrote: »

But surely you can understand given your mistake, how mistakes about SW recipients are regularly given as standard???

Many different schemes out there, it's hard to know them all. People claiming may not even know what they are entitled to.

I see something called family income supplement and think it's for families like your friend but in the article it seems it's not. So why the name? I don't know.

I'm happy to be corrected and yeah I can see how stories and myths of people on vast sums begin.

RUSTEDCORE

people dont really care about others...they pretend to out of fear or to get things they want.

The rich neither fear or require anything from the poor {AT Least nothing that the poor are not more willing to exchange for}

Lou.m

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

It's worse than that some actively despise them. Not all of course but some. Or they will simplify it . When mummy and Daddy pay for luxuries they fool themselves into thinking they did it alone. Those who make it rich from poverty never forget, my father made it from nothing. He would be offended if i did not care about those who are from a poor background or was a snob. But really i have no experience of poverty i sympathize but i would not know how to help unfortunately.

People actively avoid the poor and discriminate against them. They are suspicions of them not all well off feel this way but some.

Lou.m

And lots of people have inherited money in Ireland for generations..some of them are lovely people ..I will inherit (not millions or anything but it will make a huge diff to my life and living standard)

Plus in Ireland all middle class kids go to Uni paid by the state (Incl me)..people have said for years that would be better spent on better secondary schooling for disadvantaged areas.

Yep there is a lot of self entitlement in the upper classes and this is the very trait we accuse the poor of.

jank

“Charity degrades those who receive it and hardens those who dispense it.”

The poor in Ireland are much better off than those of previous generations and more definately better off than the real poor in places like South America, Africa and Asia. Its just that welfare over time has made people feel entitled to a standard of living that can be sustained by the average industrial wage. That was not what social welfare was created for.

It was to stop people diying of hunger or ending up in poor houses. Not to pay for Sky TV and a load of pints or fags.
People arent dying of hunger in Ireland, nor are they dying of easily curable diseases like many in the world. A poor person in Ireland still has a quality of life that is superior than 90%+ of the worlds population. Its just people lose perspective of this fact. A lot of it has to do with living in a modern meterocracy.