"There are many people living in comfort in who do not care about the disadvantaged

steddyeddy

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

uch

In comfort in,,, what ??

Capt'n Midnight

Rich and powerful people have a sense of entitlement. Been observed in surveys.

Global poverty could be ended if the 100 richest people donated a quarter of last years income. Not their assets, just part of their income in the middle of a recession.

orestes

Sorry, I'm too busy chuckling at the irony of the Pinky and the Brain avatars of the first two posts to care.

uch

orestes wrote: »

Sorry, I'm too busy chuckling at the irony of the Pinky and the Brain avatars of the first two posts to care.

So what will we do today Brain.....

steddyeddy

orestes wrote: »

Sorry, I'm too busy chuckling at the irony of the Pinky and the Brain avatars of the first two posts to care.

I'm not really a mouse but that's not really ironic to be honest.

Honestly, how much more do you want the state to do before people start looking after themselves? Nobody likes seeing their fellow citizens in squalor, but with the amounts that go out on welfare/social housing/childrens benefit/med cards etc, the only possible conclusion - should someone be forced to go without certain necessities - is that the money is being misspent by the parent.

What would you do, Eddy?

Tom_Cruise

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

steddyeddy

uch wrote: »

So what will we do today Brain.....

Same thing we do every night Pinky...try to take over the world!

Slutmonkey57b

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

There are certainly thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, who are living with extreme grammar deficits.

girl2

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

Tom…do you really have to ask this question?

There is no doubt there are people livin in extreme poverty - with no food, no money for electric or heating, there are some people out there who are gettin things very very very tough.

delw

uch wrote: »

So what will we do today Brain.....

"The same as we do every day........Try & take over the world"

Uriel.

What? Are there no workhouses? No prisons?

collegeme

I don't think they really have a clue about what the disadvantaged have to go through.
You see, i think that some feel their taxes already pay for the disadvanaged. I know of a good few who feel that their taxes pay for the dole etc. They sort of just see it as someone is getting free money from their pocket.
Btw ...people living in comfort well over 100k salaries in my opinion

steddyeddy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Honestly, how much more do you want the state to do before people start looking after themselves? Nobody likes seeing their fellow citizens in squalor, but with the amounts that go out on welfare/social housing/childrens benefit/med cards etc, the only possible conclusion - should someone be forced to go without certain necessities - is that the money is being misspent by the parent.

What would you do, Eddy?

Hey I am writing from mobile here so sorry for thecshort reply. I will give a longer one when I reach a computer. Personally though I would seriously redistribute welfare payments. I think the state are helping the wrong people (some of time anyway).

collegeme

steddyeddy wrote: »

Personally though I would seriously redistribute welfare payments. I think the state are helping the wrong people (some of time anyway).

Couldn't agree more. The whole welfare syste is a complete sham.
I know of a case where a daughter in her early 20s who never worked a day in her life was getting double the welfare of her father who was unemployed over 2 years having previously worked for the past 35years. Both lived in the same household. Now thats a fupping disgrace.

Cookie_Monster

There are many people living in comfort in who do not care about the disadvantaged

There sure are.

The apathy stems from seeing huge quantities of tax money being wasted year after year on social welfare and protection with very little actual result on a societal level IMO. Nothing has changed in the last couple of decades, if anything the problems have only gotten worse with more money wasted and more people left behind.
I reckon there's also a certain element of "it's their own fault, having umpteen dozen kids and keeping the poverty circle going" in people attitudes

steddyeddy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There sure are.

The apathy stems from seeing huge quantities of tax money being wasted year after year on social welfare and protection with very little actual result on a societal level IMO. Nothing has changed in the last couple of decades, if anything the problems have only gotten worse with more money wasted and more people left behind.
I reckon there's also a certain element of "it's their own fault, having umpteen dozen kids and keeping the poverty circle going" in people attitudes

Well you see thats the point I was going to make. People with large welfare dependent families are not the poorest in society. Theres a lot of people that are far poorer than that.

carlmango11

I think a lot of Irish people have started to become quite bitter towards those in receipt of many social welfare payments.

In these hard economic times people can't help but be enraged by the seemingly endless tales of friends and family who seem to have everything handed to them by the Government while others are working 9-5 struggling to get by. I know someone who was offered a job in IKEA and would have ended up earning €4 more per week if they took the job than to stay at home on their welfare payments. There needs to be an incentive to work for what you have. The Government is sending out a message to one half of the country that they don't need to work and telling the other half that anything they do earn will be taken from them to pay the non-workers.

Middle-class people's taxes are being raised to pay single mothers to live with their boyfriends in social housing. Middle-class people's taxes are being used to buy 13-kid families €230,000 5-bed houses in Donegal. We have a right to be annoyed by this.

Cookie_Monster

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well you see thats the point I was going to make. People with large welfare dependent families are not the poorest in society. Theres a lot of people that are far poorer than that.

Which are the people left behind as I mentioned, even by the welfare system, such as those living on the street and so forth.

StillWaters

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

Yes

We are actually quite a right wing country.
O'Cuiv has a cheek though hasn't he?

hames

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

with the amounts that go out on welfare/social housing/childrens benefit/med cards etc, the only possible conclusion[...] is that the money is being misspent by the parent.

Or that we have suffered an enormous economic collapse

You might have read about it in one of the papers.

Social welfare spending must be examined in light of statistics on economic activity which are, frankly, appalling.

To follow that, a deduction that economic activity stats are down to anything but the economic collapse would be unreasonably eccentric.

Stheno

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Is there people in Ireland who are in extreme poverty?

Yes there are. Not many who are genuinely in extreme poverty, but most of those in extreme poverty are there due to lack of education, an inability to manage on a small budget, and some are there also due to addiction.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There sure are.

The apathy stems from seeing huge quantities of tax money being wasted year after year on social welfare and protection with very little actual result on a societal level IMO. Nothing has changed in the last couple of decades, if anything the problems have only gotten worse with more money wasted and more people left behind.
I reckon there's also a certain element of "it's their own fault, having umpteen dozen kids and keeping the poverty circle going" in people attitudes

I pay a lot of tax comparable to my income and I'm not even close to the 100k mark, and I do wonder at where it goes. I see the waste, the lack of reform and I wonder why I work hard to earn a bonus that means a huge difference to me in my life, when half or more of that bonus goes to the tax system and I get very little benefit, and don't see it being spent wisely.

I have been unemployed luckily for brief periods, and appreciated the state support, but less than a quarter of one years tax/prsi/usc would pay for all of the unemployment benefit I've ever claimed.

I do wonder why we as a country have never ever made an effort like the UK to introduce a longer school day with breakfast clubs to make sure children get a good meal, and after school clubs, surely investing in the young will reap rewards?

carlmango11 wrote: »

I think a lot of Irish people have started to become quite bitter towards those in receipt of many social welfare payments.

In these hard economic times people can't help but be enraged by the seemingly endless tales of friends and family who seem to have everything handed to them by the Government while others are working 9-5 struggling to get by. I know someone who was offered a job in IKEA and would have ended up earning €4 more per week if they took the job than to stay at home on their welfare payments. There needs to be an incentive to work for what you have. The Government is sending out a message to one half of the country that they don't need to work and telling the other half that anything they do earn will be taken from them to pay the non-workers.

Middle-class people's taxes are being raised to pay single mothers to live with their boyfriends in social housing. Middle-class people's taxes are being used to buy 13-kid families €230,000 5-bed houses in Donegal. We have a right to be annoyed by this.

Election manifestos, Labour said no to cutting benefit, FG said no to raising taxes, instead they are doing it by stealth, possibly the most disgusting cut (and I'm no fan of endless welfare) was for carers who took a 27% cut in the grant they get to give them a break once a year from 24/7 duty minding those who are too ill to take care of themselves, and who without carers would be costing us many times that in State care, of which we cannot guarantee the quality.
Compare that to a poster on here today who is on the dole, and saving €100 a week, and asked a working person why they could "only" save €200 per month.

Something wrong with the system and it's going to take a while to change.

If you are comfortable, ask yourself what you do.

Do you see a food drive in a supermarket locally and pick up a couple of bits (not tins of beans) to add?
Do you support local charities?
Have you thought about supporting Vincent de Paul?
Would you become an adult literacy tutor and help someone change their lives?
Have you ever bought someone homeless a cup of coffee/tea and a sandwich?

These are all very small things, that may take people out of their comfort zone, but make an enormous difference.

And at the end of the day, an awful lot of us can say, there but for the grace of whomever, go I.

It's not a massive effort to make, to give something back, and you might be surprised at making a difference.

ManMade

Would it not be these "people living in comfort" who fund all the charities, who do great work?

This isn't a socialist country yet. People should be allowed enjoy their hard earned money, yet at the same time no one should be living in complete poverty.

It's not that people don't care, they pay a lot of tax for social spending which unfortunately is mismanaged by the government.

Galwayguy35

I think it's the low and middle income earners that are the disadvantaged here in Ireland.

Wages seem to be remaining static but every year the Government takes that little bit extra like the €5 per week in Decembers budget, later on this year we have the Property Tax to deal with and next year water charges.

People who genuinely can't find work and those who lost their jobs I feel sorry for, but hearing people who have never worked a day in their life whinging about how they want more and expecting the hard pressed taxpayer to fund their lifestyle is a bit much TBH.

hames

hames wrote: »

Or that we have suffered an enormous economic collapse

You might have read about it in one of the papers.

Social welfare spending must be examined in light of statistics on economic activity which are, frankly, appalling.

To follow that, a deduction that economic activity stats are down to anything but the economic collapse would be unreasonably eccentric.

Prices are dropping, competition is rising. One could argue that your dole today will get you more than your dole five years ago. So why the poverty?

Stheno

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Prices are dropping, competition is rising. One could argue that your dole today will get you more than your dole five years ago. So why the poverty?

A recent report in the papers said food inflation on basic items was up 12% the past two years.

That's a fair chunk of change if every euro makes a difference to you.

Smidge

Stheno wrote: »

Yes there are. Not many who are genuinely in extreme poverty, but most of those in extreme poverty are there due to lack of education, an inability to manage on a small budget, and some are there also due to addiction.



I pay a lot of tax comparable to my income and I'm not even close to the 100k mark, and I do wonder at where it goes. I see the waste, the lack of reform and I wonder why I work hard to earn a bonus that means a huge difference to me in my life, when half or more of that bonus goes to the tax system and I get very little benefit, and don't see it being spent wisely.

I have been unemployed luckily for brief periods, and appreciated the state support, but less than a quarter of one years tax/prsi/usc would pay for all of the unemployment benefit I've ever claimed.

I do wonder why we as a country have never ever made an effort like the UK to introduce a longer school day with breakfast clubs to make sure children get a good meal, and after school clubs, surely investing in the young will reap rewards?


Election manifestos, Labour said no to cutting benefit, FG said no to raising taxes, instead they are doing it by stealth, possibly the most disgusting cut (and I'm no fan of endless welfare) was for carers who took a 27% cut in the grant they get to give them a break once a year from 24/7 duty minding those who are too ill to take care of themselves, and who without carers would be costing us many times that in State care, of which we cannot guarantee the quality.
Compare that to a poster on here today who is on the dole, and saving €100 a week, and asked a working person why they could "only" save €200 per month.

Something wrong with the system and it's going to take a while to change.

If you are comfortable, ask yourself what you do.

Do you see a food drive in a supermarket locally and pick up a couple of bits (not tins of beans) to add?
Do you support local charities?
Have you thought about supporting Vincent de Paul?
Would you become an adult literacy tutor and help someone change their lives?
Have you ever bought someone homeless a cup of coffee/tea and a sandwich?

These are all very small things, that may take people out of their comfort zone, but make an enormous difference.

And at the end of the day, an awful lot of us can say, there but for the grace of whomever, go I.

It's not a massive effort to make, to give something back, and you might be surprised at making a difference.

In fairness I try not to get involved with these threads as they usually end up badly but come on, do you really believe that someone on 200 euro a week is saving 100 euro of that and is genuine and is the norm????

There is no way that this person who made this statement is solely supporting themselves, I mean seriously folks think about it. You know how much food, clothes, electric, heat, phone, internet, clothes, bins etc etc cost.

It just doesn't add up.

They are not being truthful and are more than likely taking the mick for their own ends(internet being what it is)

Zebra3

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was a line from a speech from Eamon quiv in the Dail the other day. He was talking about the poverty of children from poor areas in Ireland and the lack of caring about these conditions. Do people from well off backgrounds have a clue what people born into disadvantaged areas have to go through? I not sure I agree with Eamon 100% but from reading some of the posts of some luckier people on boards I dont think they get that not everyone has it as easy as they do. Is there an apathy amongst some of the well off towards the poor in this country?

Yes, and it starts with the parasites on the gravy train in Kildare Street.

Stheno

Smidge wrote: »

In fairness I try not to get involved with these threads as they usually end up badly but come on, do you really believe that someone on 200 euro a week is saving 100 euro of that and is genuine and is the norm????

There is no way that this person who made this statement is solely supporting themselves, I mean seriously folks think about it. You know how much food, clothes, electric, heat, phone, internet, clothes, bins etc etc cost.

It just doesn't add up.

They are not being truthful and are more than likely taking the mick for their own ends(internet being what it is)

Yes I do, and I'm genuinely posting something from another thread, whether they were trolling or not, such people do the welfare system here a disservice, either by lying on a forum and fomenting dissent amongst those who believe our system is too generous, or by mocking those who are trying to make a living and save a little. It's an easy thread to find it's called saving and is here in AH

phoenix999

carlmango11 wrote: »

.... Middle-class people's taxes are being used to buy 13-kid families €230,000 5-bed houses in Donegal. We have a right to be annoyed by this.

And some of us are more annoyed about the scumbags who then burn down such properties leaving everyone out of pocket.