Making sacrifices for Lent

jimd2

Anyone else here encourage their children to give up something, whatever small, for lent?

94Conor

Why would an atheist or agnostic encourage their children participate in a Christian custom? :S

jimd2

94Conor wrote: »

Why would an atheist or agnostic encourage their children participate in a Christian custom? :S

Well many participate in Christmas festivities and also Easter so it's not totally without precedent.

And giving up things during lent teaches kids to make sacrifices which can't be a bad thing whether you are Christian or not.

bnt

There's been plenty of discussion here, over the years, about the Pagan origins of Christmas (Winter Solstice) and Easter (festival of Ēostre), and so on. I don't remember the Bible saying anything about chicks, eggs and bunnies! You can't say the same about Lent, though - AFAIK it's explicitly Judeo-Christian in origin.

Zombrex

I don't have children, but wouldn't it be better to teach them the value of general moderation, self restrain and a healthy life style, rather than the notion of giving something up completely for an arbitrary time, which normally results in pigging out before and after the fasting?

Hotblack Desiato

Piss-poor troll attempt jmd2, sorry but you should have known this

Everyone knows that the so-called Xtian festivals are all stolen from pagan/solar worshippers.

Every year until now, I've seen between 2 and 4 ash-wearers on this day. Today I have seen zero. I conclude the Roman Catholic Church is dead. Rejoice all who have suffered at her hands.

endacl

I'm giving up responding to these threads. No great sacrifice, but an exercise in self-control.

jimd2

ninja900 wrote: »

Piss-poor troll attempt jmd2, sorry but you should have known this

Everyone knows that the so-called Xtian festivals are all stolen from pagan/solar worshippers.

Every year until now, I've seen between 2 and 4 ash-wearers on this day. Today I have seen zero. I conclude the Roman Catholic Church is dead. Rejoice all who have suffered at her hands.

I saw 3, not including me I might add. I think the ash thing is a bit ridiculous myself. However that is beside the point.
I do think that encouraging kids to give up things thy like for Lent is a good thing and I suspect that quite a few on this forum would agree but are reluctant to admit it.

jimd2

endacl wrote: »

I'm giving up responding to these threads. No great sacrifice, but an exercise in self-control.

So you have already broken this vow.

endacl

jimd2 wrote: »

So you have already broken this vow.

I was never one for resolutions. Ah well. Back to the trenches...

Lingua Franca

I have children. They have no idea what lent is.

I teach them to be decent people all year round.

iguana

Last year on Ash Wednesday I went to see Jay and Silent Bob Get Old. Apparently Jay had been walking around Dublin all day wondering the hell so many Irish people had dirty faces.

StillWaters

bnt wrote: »

There's been plenty of discussion here, over the years, about the Pagan origins of Christmas (Winter Solstice) and Easter (festival of Ēostre), and so on. I don't remember the Bible saying anything about chicks, eggs and bunnies! You can't say the same about Lent, though - AFAIK it's explicitly Judeo-Christian in origin.

I'm not sure. It is in a lean time, at planting, the very last of the store used to plant. It would have been a time of hunger and sacrifice for our ancestors. I would be surprised if there wasn't a pagan origin.

challengemaster

iguana wrote: »

Last year on Ash Wednesday I went to see Jay and Silent Bob Get Old. Apparently Jay had been walking around Dublin all day wondering the hell so many Irish people had dirty faces.

I did one better. Probably like most here, I don't even know when these days are until it gets mentioned to me because they're not significant to me.


Last year however, I was walking around tesco with the girlfriend on ash weds (unknown to me). Spotted someone walking by and the next words out of my mouth to her were "Look at that bollocks with a tattoo of a cross on his head! What an eejit"

Lets just say she spent the next 5 minutes laughing

Peregrinus

StillWaters wrote: »

I'm not sure. It is in a lean time, at planting, the very last of the store used to plant. It would have been a time of hunger and sacrifice for our ancestors. I would be surprised if there wasn't a pagan origin.

Lots of cultures have formalised ascetic practices of one kind or another, and many of them are pre-Christian.

I'm not sure, though, that Lent is a traceable inheritance from one of these. Rather, I suspect asceticism is something that different cultures and societies can come to independently. The core idea, I think, is that dependence is weakness, and you make yourself stronger by being less dependent on external things, over whose continued supply you may have little or no control. You can spiritualise this idea - and most societies probably have done - but equally you can see it in purely material terms. For example athletes may see abstinance from rich food, alchohol or sex as not merely physical preparation for competition, but mental preparation also. There's a movement which seeks to minimise consumption as part of an ethical response to consumerist capitalism. Hunger strikers practice ascetecism to call attention to perceived injustice. And so forth.

So, can atheists adopt ascetic practices, and see them as beneficial, virtuous, etc? Of course. But I see no reason why they would adopt Lenten practices in particular, and obvious reasons why they would be reluctant to. (Unless they're fans of the "let's all be miserable together" approach to life.)

jimd2

Lingua Franca wrote: »

I have children. They have no idea what lent is.

I teach them to be decent people all year round.

I am sure that you do.

But do you teach them to give up on things that they like and are used to and to give at least some of the money saved to charity or those less fortunate?

From the responses so far it seems that no one on this forum have encouraged this in their children. I am sure children are being taught to be good in other ways but it was just this particular tradition that I was interested in.

Perhaps some of you should consider doing this. It doesn't have to be Lent of course and the money doesn't have to go to Trocaire. The main point is the message it gives to the children and the money raised for those less well off.

eviltwin

In our family we talk about Lent and what it means. Its hard to avoid it, its become almost a cultural thing and despite being an open atheist I was asked about a dozen times what I am giving up.

Personally I don't think its that much different to a New Years Resolution, lots of people trying to make positive changes to themselves as per a tradition. I certainly wouldn't encourage my kids to give up something but if they made that decision themselves spurred on by others and it was based on a desire to do something good or healthy I would encourage them completely.

Penn

jimd2 wrote: »

Well many participate in Christmas festivities and also Easter so it's not totally without precedent.

Yes, like those great Christian traditions of Santa giving presents to children, or the Easter Bunny giving chocolate eggs to children.

Easter and Christmas festivities are far more cultural than religious, because they are non-Christian festivities which are associated with a Christian occasion. Lent is more religious than cultural, because it's tied in to a religious ideal with no real festivities behind it (ie. No reason a non-Christian would celebrate it, as Christmas and Easter brings joy whereas Lent brings sacrifice)

drumslate

I don't believe in anything, but for some reason I always give up something

Hotblack Desiato

jimd2 wrote: »

But do you teach them to give up on things that they like and are used to and to give at least some of the money saved to charity or those less fortunate?

So charity is dogmatically a good thing? No.

Too often it breeds dependence in the recipients and/or they are forced to degrade themselves to accept it. Far too often it is abused to aggrandise and enrich the founders and employees.

Perhaps some of you should consider doing this. It doesn't have to be Lent of course and the money doesn't have to go to Trocaire. The main point is the message it gives to the children and the money raised for those less well off.

I give a lot of money to the less well off every week and I have no choice in the matter.

Dades

jimd2 wrote: »

But do you teach them to give up on things that they like and are used to and to give at least some of the money saved to charity or those less fortunate?

From the responses so far it seems that no one on this forum have encouraged this in their children. I am sure children are being taught to be good in other ways but it was just this particular tradition that I was interested in.

I don't think you can make those assumptions from the responses to your OP. You specifically asked within the context of Lent, which most here hold no significance to. How people bring their kids up and in what way they teach them to be grateful for what they have, or to encourage altruism requires a much wider question.

My kids are 4 and 2 so I leave the life-lessons at encouraging them to share their smarties.

lazygal

I don't believe in making children make 'sacrifices' or otherwise deny themselves because of something I'm imposing on them. I want my children to be happy, secure and willing to share, but I don't see self denial as a desirable trait in children. If adults want to cut back on what's not good for them, that's up to them, but I don't like that idea for my children. I'd like to think they'll lead good, happy, healthy lives every day, not just for a defined period of the year determined by the catholic church.

I have a bit of a problem with the concept of 'charity' on an idealogical level. We have a couple of charities we donate too, but I'm not happy that a school would be infiltrated by a specific charity year after year, regardless of its worth or work. Like another poster said, I find the dependence created by the charity/volunteering industry quite difficult to get involved with.

keane2097

lazygal wrote: »

I don't believe in making children make 'sacrifices' or otherwise deny themselves because of something I'm imposing on them. I want my children to be happy, secure and willing to share, but I don't see self denial as a desirable trait in children. If adults want to cut back on what's not good for them, that's up to them, but I don't like that idea for my children. I'd like to think they'll lead good, happy, healthy lives every day, not just for a defined period of the year determined by the catholic church.

QFT

Can't believe it took someone so long to say this.

jank

It's good now and again to evaluate your life and see if you can improve on this or that. Giving up the odd vice for a period of time in my opinion is healthy so long of course it's done by ones own free will. It's funny how we become creatures of habit. Shaking things up is always interesting. As for kids, well beyond the modern day parenting philosophy that we must indulge kids with their every wants and needs I think reminding them of the fact that many things they enjoy in life is not a forgone conclusion of modern living. Cutting down on sweets or Xbox any time of the year may be viewed on positively. Might shift the focus of their attention to something more positive in the short term.

yellowlabrador

If you have chickens, it's a good idea to not eat eggs. The uneaten eggs will accumulate, the hen will get broody and voila! little fluffy chicks at easter..
We're so used to arranging ang taking over nature so this could be letting nature do it's thing so that chickens can have their offspring when they are supposed to.
My motto is, a little of what you fancy won't do you no harm. It's excess that is bad.

robindch

ninja900 wrote: »

Every year until now, I've seen between 2 and 4 ash-wearers on this day. Today I have seen zero.

Gosh, was that yesterday? I forgot completely. Didn't see a single ashy splodge all day long.

Meanwhile, here's Sky News:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLeJMoS-_Jo

Sierra 117

I saw a fair few people with ash on their foreheads. They were all elderly people mind. I didn't see any young people with ashes.

keane2097

Is there any reasoning for why, for a normal kid - i.e. nutritionally healthy, etc - the idea giving up sweets for example for a defined period of time is seen as something that will aid their development?

A lot of people seem to throw out the notion but I'm missing a step in the logic of it, it's not self-evident as it seems to be for some people to me anyway.

Dades

robindch wrote: »

Gosh, was that yesterday? I forgot completely. Didn't see a single ashy splodge all day long.

Likewise. Completely passed me by until today. Didn't see a single dash of ash.

Saw plenty of twats who still put down catholic on the census, no doubt.

Lingua Franca

jimd2 wrote: »

I am sure that you do.

But do you teach them to give up on things that they like and are used to and to give at least some of the money saved to charity or those less fortunate?

Yes.

From the responses so far it seems that no one on this forum have encouraged this in their children. I am sure children are being taught to be good in other ways but it was just this particular tradition that I was interested in.

Why does it seem like that? Because we don't do Lent? Guess what, we don't do Ramadan or Purim either.

Perhaps some of you should consider doing this. It doesn't have to be Lent of course and the money doesn't have to go to Trocaire. The main point is the message it gives to the children and the money raised for those less well off.

Perhaps you shouldn't be telling people how to raise their children.

Hotblack Desiato

LOL, Kay Burley really is thick!