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Marriage Equality - Constitutional Convention

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    #32
    KDII
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭KDII


    79% in favour. One step closer...


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    #33
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Passed by a huge margin, was very glad to hear it :)


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    #34
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    What does this mean now if anything?


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    #35
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Daith


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What does this mean now if anything?

    The Government have to respond to the recommendation by the convention. They don't have to do anything though.


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    #36
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I think a referendum campaign will get really nasty. It worries me how young people struggling to come out will be affected by it.

    A referendum campaign will not be easy at all and for it to be successful many lgbt people who have never canvassed before will have to do so.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #37
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    I have never canvassed before, but if it goes to a referendum which I believe it will. I would be willing to canvass.

    Was so pleased when I heard it had passed with such a majority. It made my Sunday hangover feel a lot better!


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    #38
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    I'm delighted that this passed. However I don't believe it is an issue that needs to be voted on by people that it does not affect in any way. Should just be legislated for in my opinion. I would like to think that by the time my Son is grown, if he is gay, he will have the same rights under the law as every other person.


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    #39
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I'm delighted that this passed. However I don't believe it is an issue that needs to be voted on by people that it does not affect in any way. Should just be legislated for in my opinion. I would like to think that by the time my Son is grown, if he is gay, he will have the same rights under the law as every other person.

    Unfortunately though the Constitution (as interpreted by the High Court) is a barrier to legislation

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #40
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Unfortunately though the Constitution (as interpreted by the High Court) is a barrier to legislation

    The constitution seems to cause a lot of problems!

    Anybody who is against gay marriage is so due to prejudice, and I cannot think of a good reason why their prejudice should be indulged.


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    #41
    oddsoxrocks
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭oddsoxrocks


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I'm delighted that this passed. However I don't believe it is an issue that needs to be voted on by people that it does not affect in any way. Should just be legislated for in my opinion. I would like to think that by the time my Son is grown, if he is gay, he will have the same rights under the law as every other person.

    Unfortunately it does need to be voted on as this will add a greater layer of protection to future generations (including your son's), As if the law was changed now and then down the road a future government wanted to reverse the law then they would have to put the vote to the people to decide rather than just legislate against it.

    I know it's hard to believe that we have to hold referendums for basic human rights issues but I would prefer the slow and steady approach to changing our constitution rather than the legislative approach which could be changed on the whims of a radical political party.


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    #42
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Unfortunately though the Constitution (as interpreted by the High Court) is a barrier to legislation

    No it's not. The high court has made no such judgment.

    It found that the constitutional reference to marriage did not require to be interpreted as including same sex couples.

    It did not find however that the constitutional reference to marriage could not be so interpreted by law.

    Arguably, and to my mind, the only thing that is required to introduce same sex marriage is an amendment to the civil registration act 2003.


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    #43
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Daith


    floggg wrote: »
    No it's not. The high court has made no such judgment.

    It found that the constitutional reference to marriage did not require to be interpreted as including same sex couples.

    It did not find however that the constitutional reference to marriage could not be so interpreted by law.

    Arguably, and to my mind, the only thing that is required to introduce same sex marriage is an amendment to the civil registration act 2003.

    Agreed. However I believe a referendum will simply stop countless legal challenges from the likes of the Iona Institute and their ilk.

    A referendum will be nasty. We have the wrong government in power in FG. It's going to be tough and won't happen until next year but if (and it could be a big if) it passes it will be amazing.


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    #44
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    oddsoxrocks wrote: »
    Unfortunately it does need to be voted on as this will add a greater layer of protection to future generations (including your son's), As if the law was changed now and then down the road a future government wanted to reverse the law then they would have to put the vote to the people to decide rather than just legislate against it.

    I know it's hard to believe that we have to hold referendums for basic human rights issues but I would prefer the slow and steady approach to changing our constitution rather than the legislative approach which could be changed on the whims of a radical political party.

    Once marriage equality had been granted legislatively I imagine it would be very difficult to then remove it through legislative means in a constitutional manner.

    This is because you can only justify differing treatment where there are objective public polic reasons to do so. I imagine that within a few years of marriage equality being introduced it will be evident that there were in fact Jo good reasons for justifying the distinction for this long.

    Accordingly any attempt to remove it would be objectively discriminatory and struck down as contrary to the equality provisions of the constitution.


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    #45
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    floggg wrote: »
    No it's not. The high court has made no such judgment.

    Apologies - you are of course correct

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #46
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Am proud to be a New Zealander today! Gay marriage has just been legalised.


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    #47
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine




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    #48
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Clandestine wrote: »

    Ah thanks Clandestine. Watching that made me even more proud. Brought tears to my eyes in a big way and made me feel a bit homesick.


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    #49
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Daith wrote: »
    Agreed. However I believe a referendum will simply stop countless legal challenges from the likes of the Iona Institute and their ilk.

    A referendum will be nasty. We have the wrong government in power in FG. It's going to be tough and won't happen until next year but if (and it could be a big if) it passes it will be amazing.
    I firmly believe it'll pass. The Ionaites always vote, whereas this issue will bring out the 18-30 ABC1 demographic to vote yes when they ordinarily stay at home.


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