If you havent read ADWD please dont read **Spoilers** From the outset and throughout

GerB40

IK09 wrote: »

Hahahahaha "super happy Targs forever" lmao, sounds like something from the care-bears!

Ya thats an interesting point about the white walkers. It seems to me that they dont have an real point or "agenda", they just seem like evil bstards that wanna put people "in the cold,cold ground". I wouldnt say were ever going to see a P.O.V from a white walker.

I know they have their leaders and what not, (presumed from the last episode of season 2) with the guys on horses leading them. But i cant imagine that they have much of a plan.

What do ye reckon the story is with the Iron Born, the Crows Eye seems to have a bit of a plan as to how they can carve out a piece of the seven kingdoms for himself (i wouldnt say hes getting anywhere near the throne though, that will probably be their downfall, over reaching). Anyone reckon that Victarion Greyjoy has any chance with Dany? he does seem like the type of beastly, fearless type she would go for. I would hate to see that happen. Then again GRRM doesnt seem to give a **** what i think.

Another thought, is Dany even safe where she is with Ko Jhaqo? He declared himself Khal after Drogo died. Hes got 20,000 riders with him. Cant see him having to much love for Dany. I know she has a dragon for protection, but whats she gonna do? Have Drogon eat Jhaqo and steal his riders? Is he gonna take her prsioner? I wouldnt be too surprised if Drogon just up and left her there, he doesnt seem all that well trained

Well first of all the white walker on the horse wasn't a leader in the proper sense, he was the only white walker there. The rest (like the fella that resurrected attacked Jon) were wights. They're people who die beyond the wall and are brotought back by the WW to do their evil bidding. Regarding the Iron Born, they're pretty tough on sea but on land they're total pússies. And about Dany and her current predicament, remember Drogo's khalasar goin mad over Dany's child that'll be "the stallion that mounts the world?." How impressed do ya think they'll be when they see drogon??

Mr.Prodston

IK09 wrote: »

What do ye reckon the story is with the Iron Born, the Crows Eye seems to have a bit of a plan as to how they can carve out a piece of the seven kingdoms for himself (i wouldnt say hes getting anywhere near the throne though, that will probably be their downfall, over reaching). Anyone reckon that Victarion Greyjoy has any chance with Dany? he does seem like the type of beastly, fearless type she would go for. I would hate to see that happen. Then again GRRM doesnt seem to give a **** what i think.

Another thought, is Dany even safe where she is with Ko Jhaqo? He declared himself Khal after Drogo died. Hes got 20,000 riders with him. Cant see him having to much love for Dany. I know she has a dragon for protection, but whats she gonna do? Have Drogon eat Jhaqo and steal his riders? Is he gonna take her prsioner? I wouldnt be too surprised if Drogon just up and left her there, he doesnt seem all that well trained

I reckon the fate of the Greyjoys lies on what exactly that horn does. If it does tame a dragon then it will be vital. Although if whoever blows it dies then that's a completely separate kettle of fish (excuse the pun :pac: )

Euron does seem to be a crafty chap and wouldn't discount him from doing something but overall will be a minor shenanigan. I'd be surprised if Victarion and Dany got together too but like I said that horn should prove vital to any alliance they may form. Surely it'll be Jorah who Dany'll choose.

I'll be honest I don't give a hoot about Meereen's trouble and hope that GRRM's knot will be sorted fairly lively, although I agree that it looks like 3 more books atleast will be needed. Unless they're monster books spilt into 3 parts each or something :eek:

Going back to Euron and the horn but wouldn't it be hilarious if the horn worked and he managed to bind/control the dragons which would leave Dany in quite a predicament

Mickeroo

I'm pretty sure Euron's horn is The Horn of Joramun, the one everyone thought Mance had?

Mr.Prodston

IK09 wrote: »

Ya thats an interesting point about the white walkers. It seems to me that they dont have an real point or "agenda", they just seem like evil bstards that wanna put people "in the cold,cold ground". I wouldnt say were ever going to see a P.O.V from a white walker.

I know they have their leaders and what not, (presumed from the last episode of season 2) with the guys on horses leading them. But i cant imagine that they have much of a plan.

GerB40 wrote: »

Well first of all the white walker on the horse wasn't a leader in the proper sense, he was the only white walker there. The rest (like the fella that resurrected attacked Jon) were wights. They're people who die beyond the wall and are brotought back by the WW to do their evil bidding.

I'm going to remain open minded about what lies beyond the wall, I'd assume we'll see something in "The Winds of Winter" about them, whether that's a POV who knows. If they are marching to take over/kill then they're no different from Lannisters, Boltons, Targaryens and Greyjoys tbh. We just don't know.

If this series has hinted at anything it's that nothing is as it seems and I'm going to apply that logic to this for now.

Mr.Prodston

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Euron's horn is The Horn of Joramun, the one everyone thought Mance had?

There are two horns: The horn of Joramun and the one that binds Dragons. Sam has one horn and Euron gave Victarion the other.

I really don't know who has which or whether one is a red-herring. Sam's horn was the horn that Jon found with all the obsidian, so applying logic that should be the horn of Joramun. Victarion's horn therefore should be the other horn.

Having said all that there has to be a wildcard thrown in? I also need to re-read AFFC and ADWD as details are getting sketchy.

podgemonster

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

There are two horns: The horn of Joramun and the one that binds Dragons. Sam has one horn and Euron gave Victarion the other.

I really don't know who has which or whether one is a red-herring. Sam's horn was the horn that Jon found with all the obsidian, so applying logic that should be the horn of Joramun. Victarion's horn therefore should be the other horn.

Having said all that there has to be a wildcard thrown in? I also need to re-read AFFC and ADWD as details are getting sketchy.

Same here, i really rushed through those books and alot of the tiny details were scanned over without registering!

IK09

The worst things i can imagine happening are all things that possibly could happen (in my opinion)

1. Jon Snow is dead
2. Stannis is dead
3. Dany gets captured (Jhaqo)
4. The Greyjoys succeed in any way (i just hate them so much)
5. Jamie Lannister gets hung by Stoneheart (Lannister he may be but hes a hero)
6. Arya doesnt come back to Westeros AS A STARK, and kicks some muthaf*ckin *ss.
7. Aegon dies and is just a nobody (seems like he'd make an unreal king)
8. We dont get the full story on Jons mother AND father.
9. Jorah Mormount doesnt get back in with Dany or go to the wall (i like Jorah)
10. We never see Jhaqen Hagar again(a man must come back)

Sleepy

podgemonster wrote: »

Same here, i really rushed through those books and alot of the tiny details were scanned over without registering!

The level of depth in the last two books is phenomenal. I'd recommend the "sequential" reading of them, jumping from one book to the other in the right chapter order.

There's so much going on that's easy miss in those books!

Mickeroo

IK09 wrote: »

The worst things i can imagine happening are all things that possibly could happen (in my opinion)

1. Jon Snow is dead
2. Stannis is dead
3. Dany gets captured (Jhaqo)
4. The Greyjoys succeed in any way (i just hate them so much)
5. Jamie Lannister gets hung by Stoneheart (Lannister he may be but hes a hero)
6. Arya doesnt come back to Westeros AS A STARK, and kicks some muthaf*ckin *ss.
7. Aegon dies and is just a nobody (seems like he'd make an unreal king)
8. We dont get the full story on Jons mother AND father.
9. Jorah Mormount doesnt get back in with Dany or go to the wall (i like Jorah)
10. We never see Jhaqen Hagar again(a man must come back)

I know people think it might be cliched if characters end up having happy endings and prophecies get fulfilled and such, but imho the series has had so little positive pay off in the first five books that I feel they've actually become slightly predictable and a little unsatisfying if I'm honest. I think the characters in these books have actually earned a relatively postiive conclusion to their tales when you consider the easy ride you see characters get in some other fantasy series (LOTR I'm looking at you).

Gbear

Mickeroo wrote: »

I know people think it might be cliched if characters end up having happy endings and prophecies get fulfilled and such, but imho the series has had so little positive pay off in the first five books that I feel they've actually become slightly predictable and a little unsatisfying if I'm honest. I think the characters in these books have actually earned a relatively postiive conclusion to their tales when you consider the easy ride you see characters get in some other fantasy series (LOTR I'm looking at you).

History doesn't have "happy endings" per se. Large chunks of history are pretty miserable. If whatever outcome makes sense within the context of the books I suppose I'll be happy, but we've seen so far in this series that people who are broadly speaking virtuous handicap themselves by acting like that and usually die.

If you look at WW2, the "good guys" won, but Europe was totally destroyed and 40m people or so lost their lives. A Pyrrhic victory is probably the best we can hope for.

IK09

I agree with both of ye, it would be crap to see the "happy targs" situation, yet it wouldn't live up to (my) expectations if everyone died as well. yet there is no happy balance, everyone cant live, everyone cant die.

one thing i wouldn't say is the they are predictable or unsatisfying...i nearly broke my tv after i finished the last book, but only because i couldn't just pick up the next book and keep reading.

As i said earlier, they are the things that would piss me off if they happened, that said i expect at least 2 of them to happen (in the next book)

Another question, Melisandre's visions...if she sees something, clearly,(with out doubt) does it happen, because in the last episode of the second series, she looks into the fire with Stannis and shows him, himself sitting on the iron throne.

Mr Freeze

Melisandre's visions were really annoying me in the books I must say. She is supposed to be one of the best Priests in her order, yet she couldn't tell you the time of day if it was shown to her in a vision, she reads them wrong constantly.

Moqorro seems to be 100% in his interpretation of his visions.

Anyways, Jon, I don't believe he is dead, and there are plenty of warg/resurrection theories going around, but I hope what happened is as follows:

I think he didn't feel the 4th knife because there wasn't one. I hope that Tormund & The Wildings broke up the attack and saved Jon, and they can slaughter The Watch too for all I care, as they have become nothing but a bunch of miserable complaining oul gits (imho).

The Watch did nowt but p*ss and moan in ADWD, so if The Wildings gutted the lot of them, great. Expect those sympathetic to Jon of course.

Regarding Ramsay's Letter, I think he made up the most of it from torturing the spear wives. I hope Mance is alive anyways, he really grew on me.

I definitely think we will see a lot more of Stannis in the next book, I don't think the impending battle with Ramsay's men will be his end.

TheIrishGrover

Happy Endings? Have ye even READ the rest of the books?

The closest thing ASoIaF will come to a "Happy Ending" is in Litlefinger's whorehouse.

Having said that, I do think Dany will have to have some confrontation with the walkers. Probably the whole of the last book. Aint called A Song of Ice And Fire for nuthin'

I just don't think it'll be Dany, Jon (V2) and Tyrion flying over The Wall on three dragons.

And, yeah, as someone said before, I believe at least one dragon will die beofre the last book (Probably the next book).

I think Littlefinger and Varys have about a 5% chance of surviving the books...... But everyone else is brown-bread

conorhal

Hmmm.. some interesting theories in this thread so I might as well toss in my tuppence worth.

When it comes to dragons, they will be ridden by Danny (Fire) and Bran (ice), it is known... The three eyed crow did tell Bran that while he would never walk again he would fly. Yes he has warged a few crows, but I suspect his warg skills could be used very effectively on a dragon, as only a very powerful warg, somebody with a dragon horn or at the very least somebody with a copy of 'How to Train your Dragon' on DVD would have any chance of controlling such a beastie. Sooner of later both Danny and Bran have to make for the wall and meet.

I reckon that with his horn, Eureon may well get his hands on a dragon, leading to a ...DRAGON V. DRAGON BATTLE! Awsome! This could lead to the dispatch of one of the dragons, but I suspect Eureon's defeat will ultimately free up a seat, IMHO, I'd actually like to see Sansa fill it, she lost her wolf, it’s only fair she gets a dragon in return. How though? Well Littlefinger does love having at least one finger in every pie so I suspect he’ll want in on a bit of dragon action, perhaps dispatching his new protégé Sansa to spy on Danny for him acting as a new handmaid for her perhaps? I’ve grown to like Sansa character and I’d say that she could learn to deploy her newly found street smarts to ingratiate herself with Danny and double-cross Littlefinger. Who knows how this might pan out, perhaps the stories ending will involve involve Sansa and Danny ruling together as the power lesbian couple in Westeros, with all Danny's adopted 'children' in tow natch...

Jon's not dead, he’s just resting his eyes! GRRM has pulled the whole shock ending \ mid sentence killing only to reveal that all was not as it seemed so many times at this stage that as far as I’m concerned, unless somebody’s head rolls off their shoulders in their own damn POV chapter, then I consider them alive. No doubt Milesandre will prove useful in restoring moany hole Jon boy to rude health.

As for Mili, her visions clearly point to Danny as her misread champion as far as I’m concerned. Whenever she looks for Stannis she seems to see Mereen, it’s towers by the sea are clearly described in her vision and the girl on a dying horse, I read as the plague coming to that city. More interesting is her vision of the enemy (if that’s what he is), the boy with a wolf’s head. Could that be Bran, or even Rickon (where is he BTW)? Perhaps Bran will become that bad guy. He's hanging out with the wrong crowd north of the wall these days. I don't trust those hippie ass 'Children of the Forest' pricks for one second, they're trying to seduce Bran to 'the dark side'. I mean what are the odds they are actually pulling the White Walkers strings? After all, how much love are the Children of the Forest likely to harbor for the kingdom of men and why would they do anything to help humans?
Plus Bran would make for a good villan IMO, icy, twisted and in control of a dragon, acting as an agent of the Children and the White Walkers. Rise Darth Bran I say!

I can see why ‘ol George is struggling with the writing of the series, he’s set up so many threads with too many characters (many we couldn’t give a toss about, Dorne can go fvck itself) that weaving them back into a coherent story is a tough call. I’m willing to bet we’ll see 4 more novels from him, probably cheated as calling them parts one and two to the remaining novels.
I do wonder, for example, how Arya will be reintegrated into the story, will she take her stealthy mew ninja skills on a kick ass 'revenge-sploitation tour of Westeros'? I’d like to see her hook up with Tyrion for this and together they could become the new Jules and Vincent of ‘Pulp Westeros’, quoting from the Seven Pointed Star and shooting up the place (with crossbows naturally). I'd certiantly love to see her unleash hell on the Boltons and those weasel fvks the Freys, she could even hook up with 'un-dead mom' for that gig.

podgemonster

conorhal wrote: »

Hmmm.. some interesting theories in this thread so I might as well toss in my tuppence worth.

Sansa and Danny lezzing off and Bran going Evil are pretty good exciting theories but i unfortunately I doubt it will happen. The rest of what you said could happen and there will definetly be a dragon vs. dragon incident.

Bran has a clear and gentle soul, i think he will ride a dragon but in the name of good (i.e against White walkers, boltons, freys, lannisters)

Rickon I think is on that small rocky island that looks like Skellig rock! White Harbour knights are en route to recover him and install him as Lord of Winterfell

conorhal

podgemonster wrote: »

Sansa and Danny lezzing off and Bran going Evil are pretty good exciting theories but i unfortunately I doubt it will happen. The rest of what you said could happen and there will definetly be a dragon vs. dragon incident.

Bran has a clear and gentle soul, i think he will ride a dragon but in the name of good (i.e against White walkers, boltons, freys, lannisters)

Rickon I think is on that small rocky island that looks like Skellig rock! White Harbour knights are en route to recover him and install him as Lord of Winterfell

Well Sansa and Danny lezzing off was idle musing , as for Bran turning evil, yeah it's wild speculation on my part, but, it's possible he is the wolf headed boy in Milesandre's vision of her 'enemy north of the wall', of course being Milesandre's enemy doesn't automatically make him a bad guy, far from it, but it could make him a servant of winter in some manner.

Bran may have a gentle soul, but you have to fear for that soul given how much time it spends as either a wolf or a tree lately, and you have to wonder how he might be effected by becoming a green-seer, perhaps his humanity could slowly ebb away the less time he actually spends as a human being or concerned with human things..... anyhow, it's just a thought.

Mr.Prodston

conorhal wrote: »

Well Sansa and Danny lezzing off was idle musing , as for Bran turning evil, yeah it's wild speculation on my part, but, it's possible he is the wolf headed boy in Milesandre's vision of her 'enemy north of the wall', of course being Milesandre's enemy doesn't automatically make him a bad guy, far from it, but it could make him a servant of winter in some manner.

Bran may have a gentle soul, but you have to fear for that soul given how much time it spends as either a wolf or a tree lately, and you have to wonder how he might be effected by becoming a green-seer, perhaps his humanity could slowly ebb away the less time he actually spends as a human being or concerned with human things..... anyhow, it's just a thought.

As regards to Sansa + Dany a man can dream until George makes it so

I agree with the Bran theory up to the point where he is "Evil". Bran will never be evil but this stems into my thinking that the White Walkers/Others aren't necessarily evil either or no more evil than other factions. The North is Ice/Winter/Stark none of those terms are considered evil are they? That is where these "things" beyond the wall come from though.

Then consider the South is Fire/Summer/Targaryen these again are not considered evil bar perhaps "the Mad King" and select individuals which works both ways. However if you think of Dragons they're hardly anything but extremely dangerous. Taking them on their own should surely spell evil/pure destruction yet this isn't really the case. To many Dragons are the great hope of ridding the evil but surely it only creates more.

As we have an insight into the dragon side of the story people tend to side with them. If Dany had died instead of Viserys and say he got his army and dragons (an absolute stretch I know as the dragons probably wouldn't be in play) then how keen would we be to see the dragons?

The one true evil is probably Ramsey Bolton and perhaps the Frey's but they're really just ****s.

The only way Westeros and beyond can really have a happy ending is if both sides lose and everything goes back to the not so magical stage of before the book series started.

It's tailor-made for Stannis to rule forever and ever :pac:

jeffacakeblake

I wonder about Bran cause hes so young and impressionable, maybe he could go bad. I seem to remember some scenes where he hadn't seen the Reeds much and Meera was sick or frightened of him, now I could be wrong but wasn't it implied that he had been eating eyes or some such. So my point is that he may end up bad without really being aware.

Mickeroo

jeffacakeblake wrote: »

I wonder about Bran cause hes so young and impressionable, maybe he could go bad. I seem to remember some scenes where he hadn't seen the Reeds much and Meera was sick or frightened of him, now I could be wrong but wasn't it implied that he had been eating eyes or some such. So my point is that he may end up bad without really being aware.

THere's also the fact that he uses his warg abilities on Hodor.

I'm still not sure he'll go bad though, I'm leaning more towards the white walkers won't be defeated unless ice & fire come together to do it ie Targs & Starks together.

jeffacakeblake

Mickeroo wrote: »

THere's also the fact that he uses his warg abilities on Hodor.

I'm still not sure he'll go bad though, I'm leaning more towards the white walkers won't be defeated unless ice & fire come together to do it ie Targs & Starks together.

Neither am I really but I think that GRRM writes people who are bad but don't see themselves that way is all. Saying that though who knows what he has planned I seem to change my mind every other month on what will/won't happen to characters