Boiler Pressure Dropping

stevestevenson

Standard Glo-Worm boiler installed in Charlesland Grove, pressure dropping below 0.6 bar -which prevents heat from turning on. Usually resolved by turning on the 'tap' in the hotpress for a few secs - If you have one of these boilers you'll understand.

Oddly, it normally happens when there's really stormy weather out - is it related to local water pressure?

Any thoughts? Happening to anyone else yesterday/today?

cuddlycavies

There's definitely a tendency for strong wind to put the pilot light out when pressure is low. However if pressure keeps dropping there may be a leak in the system somewhere. If pressure alone will not fire it up now, ie if you have to use the reset dial every time, then the board has gone.

Peehadc

Had to replace a pressure relief valve a while back as grit & debris had gotten into the mechanism. This came from topping up the pressure over time. The washer was slightly passing on the bathroom towel rail.
What will probably happen next with constant topping up is that the pressure vessel ( a bladder of sorts) will contain too much water and the system will reach 3 bar or more triggering the PRV. Trick is to close the supply&return to the boiler (base of bolier) and drain the pressure vessel down to1 bar, then reopen the valves. After 1hr running pressure increase will be only 0.5Bar range. Also fresh water into the system will speed up rust formation internally in the rads. If getting a corrosion inhibitor get a copper compatible one as I believe the heat exchanger in these are copper.
Hope this sheds some light on your issues...

matt-dublin

aren't the gloworms electric igniters? i though pilot lights were gone in the 90s?

cuddlycavies

matt-dublin wrote: »

aren't the gloworms electric igniters? i though pilot lights were gone in the 90s?

I probably used wrong term. Flame inside the hole will kick in if pressure is right and electronic board is functional.

Honestly!

stevestevenson wrote: »

Standard Glo-Worm boiler installed in Charlesland Grove, pressure dropping below 0.6 bar -which prevents heat from turning on. Usually resolved by turning on the 'tap' in the hotpress for a few secs - If you have one of these boilers you'll understand.

Oddly, it normally happens when there's really stormy weather out - is it related to local water pressure?

Any thoughts? Happening to anyone else yesterday/today?

I have to turn black tap in hotpress every night. You will need a valve which will cost about €150 labour and installation. I'm getting one installed soon.

bido

It might be that you need an extra pressure vessel fitted.:D

pixbyjohn

Honestly! wrote: »

I have to turn black tap in hotpress every night. You will need a valve which will cost about €150 labour and installation. I'm getting one installed soon.

Is it a pressure reducing valve you are having fitted or do you know?

2011

Honestly! wrote: »

This is happening in all [removed].

+1
Real Celtic Tiger plumbing, I have seen a number of homes in Charlesland where some radiators simply do not heat beyond like warm :mad:

I have to turn black tap in hotpress every night. You will need a valve which will cost about €150 labour and installation.

.....or better still get the leak fixed.

lakeroad

Honestly! wrote: »

This is happening in all BM Durkan houses, Grove and Park AFAIK. I have to turn black tap in hotpress every night. You will need a valve which will cost about €150 labour and installation. I'm getting one installed soon. Neighbour who had one installed was told by plumber that he tendered for the work with BM Durkan to include these valves but job went to a plumber who did not include the valves.

BTW Durkan spends these days driving to golf courses in his Merc. Not sure how the management agent who helped him out of here without completing works is doing.

That's an incorrect and sweeping statement. There's 520 units in Charlesland Grove & Park and only a relatively small percentage have had problems.

What's is this valve you are talking about and where is it supposed to be located. I live in the Park and have never had a problem with my heating system.

Have you spoke to the Surveyor who snagged your house and ask why it wasn't picked up at snagging stage.

MiniGolf

Honestly! wrote: »

I have to turn black tap in hotpress every night. You will need a valve which will cost about €150 labour and installation. I'm getting one installed soon.

By installing the valve you have mentioned above all you are doing is masking the problem.
What is happening is this:

System is filled and pressurised
Over time some valves and/or joints/pipework may start to leak
Pressure drops below 0.6 bar (For Glow Worm boilers) and boiler stops due to safety device within boiler cutting out.
Home-owner/tenant opens valve to re-pressurise system and boiler works again.
This continues over time and every time re-pressurisation takes place fresh oxygenated water is introduced to the system which can, if a chemical inhibitor is not checked/added can cause corrosion/scaling of the system.
This can lead to premature failure of expansion vessel, heat exchanger, rads etc.

The correct course of action would be to ideally find and fix the leaks but as a lot of the leaks would be "minor" and possibly hidden the simplest thing would be to add a chemical leak sealer to the system. I avoid this as much as possible as I prefer to not have leaks at all on a system but sometimes it is unavoidable due to bad workmanship/inferior materials/component failures, etc., etc.
The most common source of leaks are radiator and gate type valves (usually with red wheel head).
By fitting this valve as mentioned above it hides the problem by re-filling the system unknown to the home-owner/tenant and constantly adding to the problem!!

gramo

Same problem for me...
Have to represaurise the boiler nearly 5 or 6 times a day. Can't set the heating to come on in the mornings either, the boiler is usually sitting at 0.3 Bar.

Has anyone got this sorted?

bido

Are you getting water leaking from the pipe beside the flue on the outside wall ?

drag0n79

gramo wrote: »

Same for me.... Have to twist the nob in the hot press to re-pressure the boiler.

Can't set the heating to come on in the morning either as the the boiler is usually as low as 0.3 Bar.

Any one get this sorted?

As long as there is no continuous leak, this is most likely due to the expansion vessel internal to your boiler being shot. It happens to all boilers eventually when the diaphragm inside perishes. Solution is to get a separate new expansion vessel fitted in your hot press, these cost about 130 euro...or bord gais will install one and give you a warranty for 237 euro.

William of Ockham

We had exactly this issue some weeks ago. For years the pressure only needed topping up every 5-6 months, if even. Around Christmas, it needed topping up every week or so, and by February it was every day. When the heating was on, you could see water dripping steadily from the pipe outside the house. I contacted our boiler man Robert and he fitted an expansion valve in the hotpress. For a service, the part and labour we paid 180 euro or thereabouts. Problem is fixed.
I'm happy to pass his number on to anyone who wants it.

matt-dublin

drag0n79 wrote: »

As long as there is no continuous leak, this is most likely due to the expansion vessel internal to your boiler being shot. It happens to all boilers eventually when the diaphragm inside perishes. Solution is to get a separate new expansion vessel fitted in your hot press, these cost about 130 euro...or bord gais will install one and give you a warranty for 237 euro.

I know a guy locally who will do this fairly cheap. Pm me for details, I just got mine done and the place is like a furnace!!

drag0n79

drag0n79 wrote: »

As long as there is no continuous leak, this is most likely due to the expansion vessel internal to your boiler being shot. It happens to all boilers eventually when the diaphragm inside perishes. Solution is to get a separate new expansion vessel fitted in your hot press, these cost about 130 euro...or bord gais will install one and give you a warranty for 237 euro.

Also, make sure you get a new safety valve fitted when the plumber is doing this. The valves can get debris stuck in them over time from opening and closing and it's a good time to get it replaced with the new expansion vessel.

gramo

matt-dublin wrote: »

I know a guy locally who will do this fairly cheap. Pm me for details, I just got mine done and the place is like a furnace!!

PM sent

Honestly!

So which is it?

lakeroad wrote: »

That's an incorrect and sweeping statement. There's 520 units in Charlesland Grove & Park and only a relatively small percentage have had problems.

What's is this valve you are talking about and where is it supposed to be located. I live in the Park and have never had a problem with my heating system.

Have you spoke to the Surveyor who snagged your house and ask why it wasn't picked up at snagging stage.

lakeroad wrote: »

I live in the park and had a lot of problems with my Glowworm 18si boiler so I upgraded last year. I had a Glowworm Flexicom 18sx condensing boiler installed. The reason I went for the glowworm was the ease of installation, the size and the installer had to make only minor changes to the pipe work. We are really happy with the system and our bills have dropped slightly so would definitely recommend it.
I did look at a combi boiler but you will have to run additional pipe work back to your hot press which means you will be opening up floors and walls to route the pipe work.

Decks79

We had the safety valve replaced recently and still have the problem. We increase the pressure to between 0.8-1 bar and within an hour of turning off the boiler it's back down to 0.4 and needs to be repressurised. Anyone have a solution?

drag0n79

Decks79 wrote: »

We had the safety valve replaced recently and still have the problem. We increase the pressure to between 0.8-1 bar and within an hour of turning off the boiler it's back down to 0.4 and needs to be repressurised. Anyone have a solution?

New expansion vessel, see above.

Carrie81

We had the same problem in Eden gate & had to get a new expansion vessel fitted. It's a red cylinder put In the hot press as that was the easiest place to fit & have had no problems all winter since it was done.

Wayne_M

Hi guys, I'm thankfully late to this particular party, however: I turned on the rad in the (converted) attic last week as we had guests over. Since then every morning the Gloworm boiler is at .6 and flashing red. I have to turn the 'tap' in the hotpress on a daily basis now which is a real pain!!

I've read a few suggestions above, but is there a definitive explanation to:

a) What is the actual issue here - i.e. is there a leak (or air) in the system?
b) What is the proper solution - i.e. not a short-term fix

Any assistance appreciated!

2011

Wayne_M wrote: »

a) What is the actual issue here

Cowboy plumbers Your system has a leak.

b) What is the proper solution - i.e. not a short-term fix

Fix the leak.

drag0n79

Wayne_M wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm thankfully late to this particular party, however: I turned on the rad in the (converted) attic last week as we had guests over. Since then every morning the Gloworm boiler is at .6 and flashing red. I have to turn the 'tap' in the hotpress on a daily basis now which is a real pain!!

I've read a few suggestions above, but is there a definitive explanation to:

a) What is the actual issue here - i.e. is there a leak (or air) in the system?
b) What is the proper solution - i.e. not a short-term fix

Any assistance appreciated!

It's not as clear cut as 2011 says above.

a) A few possibilities - 1/leak or 2/air or 3/expansion vessel inside boiler is now kaputt
I think 1/ is unlikely as you have been topping it up for a week now, you would have noticed a leak somewhere by now. 2/ is the most likely because you turned on a radiator that you do not normally use. Probably needs to be bled. 3/ is possible but it would not happen all of a sudden like that, but be aware that it is likely to happen at some point in which case you'll need a new expasion vessel to be fitted in the hotpress.

b) First double/treble check the house for leaks. Then bleed the system, get all of the air out (and then top-up the pressure with the tap in the hotpress). You will probably have to bleed multiple times. See how it goes for a week or two after that, if there are still problems then it's probably the expansion vessel.

Wayne_M

drag0n79 wrote: »

It's not as clear cut as 2011 says above.

a) A few possibilities - 1/leak or 2/air or 3/expansion vessel inside boiler is now kaputt
I think 1/ is unlikely as you have been topping it up for a week now, you would have noticed a leak somewhere by now. 2/ is the most likely because you turned on a radiator that you do not normally use. Probably needs to be bled. 3/ is possible but it would not happen all of a sudden like that, but be aware that it is likely to happen at some point in which case you'll need a new expasion vessel to be fitted in the hotpress.

b) First double/treble check the house for leaks. Then bleed the system, get all of the air out (and then top-up the pressure with the tap in the hotpress). You will probably have to bleed multiple times. See how it goes for a week or two after that, if there are still problems then it's probably the expansion vessel.

Excellent, thanks for that! I also suspect that it's air in the system. I closed off the attic rad last night but I guess the damage is already done.

Has anyone ever bled the system on a Gloworm before? I'm guessing there's a valve under the bolier in the hall?

pixbyjohn

Bleed each radiator but while doing that allow water into the system to replenish.

2011

drag0n79 wrote: »

It's not as clear cut as 2011 says above.

a) A few possibilities - 1/leak or 2/air or 3/expansion vessel inside boiler is now kaputt
I think 1/ is unlikely as you have been topping it up for a week now, you would have noticed a leak somewhere by now. 2/ is the most likely because you turned on a radiator that you do not normally use. Probably needs to be bled. 3/ is possible but it would not happen all of a sudden like that, but be aware that it is likely to happen at some point in which case you'll need a new expasion vessel to be fitted in the hotpress.

If a pressureised heating system is being topped up with water each day for a week and every day it is loosing pressure there is a leak in the system.
If not the pressure would be maintanined.

Granted there may also be air in the system.
However if this is the case the water / air in the system is being repressureised on a daily basis. If there is no leak where is the additional water going?

DGOBS

+1 there is a leak

You would most likely get lots or advice if you posted this in the plumbing and heating section

LEIN

Moved from Greystones.

2011

DGOBS wrote: »

+1 there is a leak

I though so...

Sometimes it is that simple

Wayne_M

Got this fixed at the weekend - new expansion vessel required, €150 all-in. Working perfectly since.

Recommend this guy, John Mcgrath @ http://greystonesplumbing.ie/ - prompt service, reasonable price.

Thanks to all for their feedback.

drag0n79

Wayne_M wrote: »

Got this fixed at the weekend - new expansion vessel required, €150 all-in. Working perfectly since.

Recommend this guy, John Mcgrath @ http://greystonesplumbing.ie/ - prompt service, reasonable price.

Thanks to all for their feedback.

Nice one. Glad it wasn't a leak.

Wayne_M

drag0n79 wrote: »

Nice one. Glad it wasn't a leak.

Technically it wasn't a leak, but it was losing water.

Here comes the science bit:

Each time I topped up the water/pressure using the tap in the hotpress I was increasing the amount of water in the system.
When the heating was on, the water expanded causing the excess to flow out an 'overflow' pipe at the front of the house. Thus when the water cooled, the pressure would drop again due to having lost the 'excess' water. A functioning expansion vessel prevents this from happening.

Wearb

Wayne_M wrote: »

Technically it wasn't a leak, but it was losing water.

Here comes the science bit:

Each time I topped up the water/pressure using the tap in the hotpress I was increasing the amount of water in the system.
When the heating was on, the water expanded causing the excess to flow out an 'overflow' pipe at the front of the house. Thus when the water cooled, the pressure would drop again due to having lost the 'excess' water. A functioning expansion vessel prevents this from happening.

Amazing :rolleyes:

Gargamello

Carrie81 wrote: »

We had the same problem in Eden gate & had to get a new expansion vessel fitted. It's a red cylinder put In the hot press as that was the easiest place to fit & have had no problems all winter since it was done.

Can you PM me who you used to fix the problem Carrie81? I have the same problem in Eden Gate. Thanks.