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New Gas Boiler - to current 2012 heating standards

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  • 09-02-2012 6:32pm
    #1
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭


    How many of you already upgraded old boilers i.e.glowworm 18si to new ''current standards'' boilers?

    There are common problems with our heating system and hot water in Charlesland.

    For the above reasons I want upgrade my system boiler to ''Combi'' boiler

    Please post below your willingness to upgrade or PM me if interested

    and if we get 5-10 of us and buy in bulk we get discount from supplier/ installer.

    The lowest quote I got so far was EUR2,300 (prior grant) for BOSCH system boiler installed

    EUR3,200 for Bosch Worecester combi boiler incl installation (new pipes + new pressure pump + removal of cylinder/immersion).
    (update)
    EUR3,400 for Viessmann 100W combi boiler incl installation (new pipes + new pressure pump + removal of cylinder/immersion).
    (update)

    are you willing to upgrade your boiler system to Combi boiler for instant hot water? 11 votes

    Yes, if we get minimum 5 neigbours signed up to reduce installation cost
    0% 0 votes
    Yes, I have problems with my current heating system
    27% 3 votes
    Don't have opinion
    0% 0 votes
    No, happy with turning on/off immersion, gas manually
    18% 2 votes
    No, have solar panels installed
    54% 6 votes
    No, already made an upgrade
    0% 0 votes


Comments

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    #2
    GASMANN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭GASMANN


    not many people have replaced the original boilers in the grove or park, iv certainly not been to any, and the same would apply to the court/wood where they used a different boiler (vokera). the 18si arent a bad boiler and the vast majority of heating problems are on the systems rather than the boilers themselves, bar the expansion vessels being undersized, but that is easily rectified.


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    #3
    markest
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭markest


    Could this be why I have to top up my system every day by opening the valve in the hot press/airing cupboard.
    If so, any ideas how to fix this?


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    #4
    GASMANN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭GASMANN


    markest wrote: »
    Could this be why I have to top up my system every day by opening the valve in the hot press/airing cupboard.
    If so, any ideas how to fix this?


    short answer - 99% yes.
    it would have to be viewed to confirm, solution is to fit additional expansion vessel in the hotpress and replace safety valve on the boiler.


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    #5
    GASMANN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭GASMANN


    tp25 wrote: »
    How many of you already upgraded old boilers i.e.glowworm 18si to new ''current standards'' boilers?

    There are common problems with our heating system and hot water in Charlesland.

    For the above reasons I want upgrade my system boiler to ''Combi'' boiler

    Please post below your willingness to upgrade or PM me if interested

    and if we get 5-10 of us and buy in bulk we get discount from supplier/ installer.

    The lowest quote I got so far was EUR2,200 (prior grant) for BOSCH combi boiler incl installation.

    Our old Wormglow boiler was only 78% efficient back when was installed,

    Bosch is 91% efficient and gives instant hot water.

    Possibly at there a management co. meeting we could raise such query and get a list of people signed? - it's purely from owner perspective to reduce installation costs.

    PS: I also want to disconnect gas fireplace in the living room and insulate two wall vents in the living room. It's annoying that with central heating on I have temperature of 16°C in the living room.
    I don't use gas fireplace as it's dangerous - in my house is fake chimney and all gas emissions goes back to the living room.

    are you talking about a combi boiler or condensing boiler ?

    although you gas fire is flueless all emissions are not going into your living room, as this would be extremely dangerous, having said that and this is just an opinion not a fact, i would not have a flueless fire in my own home. at a minimum a co alarm should be present and a co safety check should be asked for along with your annual boiler service. both of which are not generally done in C.L


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    #6
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    GASMANN wrote: »
    are you talking about a combi boiler or condensing boiler ?

    although you gas fire is flueless all emissions are not going into your living room, as this would be extremely dangerous, having said that and this is just an opinion not a fact, i would not have a flueless fire in my own home. at a minimum a co alarm should be present and a co safety check should be asked for along with your annual boiler service. both of which are not generally done in C.L

    I like idea of Combi and instant hot water

    http://www.viessmann.co.uk/etc/medialib/internet_uk/images/products.Par.35458.File.File.tmp/%208pp%20Vitodens%20100%20Broch%20lo%20res.pdf


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    #7
    lakeroad
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭lakeroad


    I live in the park and had a lot of problems with my Glowworm 18si boiler so I upgraded last year. I had a Glowworm Flexicom 18sx condensing boiler installed. The reason I went for the glowworm was the ease of installation, the size and the installer had to make only minor changes to the pipe work. We are really happy with the system and our bills have dropped slightly so would definitely recommend it.
    I did look at a combi boiler but you will have to run additional pipe work back to your hot press which means you will be opening up floors and walls to route the pipe work.


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    #8
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    lakeroad wrote: »
    I live in the park and had a lot of problems with my Glowworm 18si boiler so I upgraded last year. I had a Glowworm Flexicom 18sx condensing boiler installed. The reason I went for the glowworm was the ease of installation, the size and the installer had to make only minor changes to the pipe work. We are really happy with the system and our bills have dropped slightly so would definitely recommend it.
    I did look at a combi boiler but you will have to run additional pipe work back to your hot press which means you will be opening up floors and walls to route the pipe work.

    thanks for posting this, are you in 3 or 2 bed?


  • Options
    #9
    lakeroad
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭lakeroad


    tp25 wrote: »
    thanks for posting this, are you in 3 or 2 bed?
    I will talk to installer and then see whats need to be added for Combi boiler. - 2 bed house.
    I'm in a 2 bed house. Just be careful with the prices being quoted by the installers. Once I had decided on which boiler to go with I rang the wholesalers directly to get an idea of the price. The price of the boiler I went with was around €850 inc vat to the trade. The installers have also factored in the SEI refund.


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    #10
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    lakeroad wrote: »
    ...Just be careful with the prices being quoted by the installers. ...The installers have also factored in the SEI refund.

    Could you pm me installation costs to give me an idea when talking to installers.


  • Options
    #11
    Maudi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Maudi


    GASMANN wrote: »
    tp25 wrote: »
    How many of you already upgraded old boilers i.e.glowworm 18si to new ''current standards'' boilers?

    There are common problems with our heating system and hot water in Charlesland.

    For the above reasons I want upgrade my system boiler to ''Combi'' boiler

    Please post below your willingness to upgrade or PM me if interested

    and if we get 5-10 of us and buy in bulk we get discount from supplier/ installer.

    The lowest quote I got so far was EUR2,200 (prior grant) for BOSCH combi boiler incl installation.

    Our old Wormglow boiler was only 78% efficient back when was installed,

    Bosch is 91% efficient and gives instant hot water.

    Possibly at there a management co. meeting we could raise such query and get a list of people signed? - it's purely from owner perspective to reduce installation costs.

    PS: I also want to disconnect gas fireplace in the living room and insulate two wall vents in the living room. It's annoying that with central heating on I have temperature of 16°C in the living room.
    I don't use gas fireplace as it's dangerous - in my house is fake chimney and all gas emissions goes back to the living room.

    are you talking about a combi boiler or condensing boiler ?

    although you gas fire is flueless all emissions are not going into your living room, as this would be extremely dangerous, having said that and this is just an opinion not a fact, i would not have a flueless fire in my own home. at a minimum a co alarm should be present and a co safety check should be asked for along with your annual boiler service. both of which are not generally done in C.L
    where are the emissions going then?if not into the sitting room?


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    #12
    Welsh Wizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭Welsh Wizard


    Combi boilers are great at first but after a few years the hot water doesnt flow as well as it did when it was new and you might find it'll take longer to shower etc because of this..

    I personally wouldn't go for one..

    Just my 2c


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    #13
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    Combi boilers are great at first but after a few years the hot water doesnt flow as well as it did when it was new and you might find it'll take longer to shower etc because of this..

    I personally wouldn't go for one..

    Just my 2c

    I heard this statement was true with ''older'' boilers, I read on UK forums about this (boilers installed in late 90's)
    Looking closer at current technology, Viessmann uses the stainless steel Inox-Radial heat exchanger with 10 year warranty. That's fine with me.
    Many Thanks for your opinion!


  • Options
    #14
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    Maudi wrote: »
    where are the emissions going then?if not into the sitting room?
    true


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    #15
    mark17j
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭mark17j


    My gas boiler is over 20 years old and still works fine, I never even needed to get a part for it yet, touch wood :) I get it serviced once a year and it always passes every inspection. altho they do try and convince me to upgrade with each visit :s
    My boiler has a low setting which I was told most boilers don't have and I leave it permanently on this, I can leave the gas on most days and nights and it never exceeds 200 euro over 2 monthy.. my rads/water do be hopping, very pleased with my system and will never upgrade.


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    #16
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    mark17j wrote: »
    My gas boiler is over 20 years old and still works fine, I never even needed to get a part for it yet, touch wood :) I get it serviced once a year and it always passes every inspection. altho they do try and convince me to upgrade with each visit :s
    My boiler has a low setting which I was told most boilers don't have and I leave it permanently on this, I can leave the gas on most days and nights and it never exceeds 200 euro over 2 monthy.. my rads/water do be hopping, very pleased with my system and will never upgrade.

    @mark17j are you in charlesland? This thread is dedicated to charlesland people only.
    Anyway thanks for posting this! Can you edit your post and add: whether you use any immersion heater built into the cylinder and what are your electricity bills like? Is it 2 or 3 bed house?
    Thanks for the figures anyway!


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    #17
    mark17j
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭mark17j


    tp25 wrote: »
    @mark17j are you in charlesland? This thread is dedicated to charlesland people only.
    Anyway thanks for posting this! Can you edit your post and add: whether you use any immersion heater built into the cylinder and what are your electricity bills like? Is it 2 or 3 bed house?

    Sorry should of payed more attention there, not from the area,

    I have an electric immersion installed but I never use it, no need. I live in a 41 year old 3 bed extended Semi
    My last ESB bill was for 145 euro ( over Christmas period)


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    #18
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    lakeroad wrote: »
    I live in the park and had a lot of problems with my Glowworm 18si boiler so I upgraded last year. I had a Glowworm Flexicom 18sx condensing boiler installed. The reason I went for the glowworm was the ease of installation, the size and the installer had to make only minor changes to the pipe work. We are really happy with the system and our bills have dropped slightly so would definitely recommend it.
    I did look at a combi boiler but you will have to run additional pipe work back to your hot press which means you will be opening up floors and walls to route the pipe work.

    that is entirely truth.

    the combi boiler requires to run additional pipe work to your bathroom (you can totally disassemble hot press during this work also disassemble immersion heater and shower pump- as water will be heated inside the combi boiler- saving space as whole hot press will become empty), then you need to introduce new small pump between the cold water tank and new combi boiler to create pressure required for the combi.

    The combi is more sophisticated and much dearer to install, base price is about 150-200 more for the boiler vs system boiler.
    What you pay is what you get. The final usage will also be something to look into.

    In combi the gas only heats the hot water pipes when you open the hot water, otherwise you do not need to care about it when on holidays or late at work/pub.

    Heating system will have separate pipes into combi boiler, thus combi has separate controls for the heating which can be turned on alone regardless of hot water demand.

    At present ''system boilers'' in charlesland were 78% efficient when installed new, which means:

    100m3 of gas boiler burns effectively(uses) 78% of the gas

    with newer boilers

    100m3 combi boiler burns effectively 91% of the gas

    13% more efficiency there.


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    #19
    caesarthechimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭caesarthechimp


    Welsh Wizard wrote: »
    Combi boilers are great at first but after a few years the hot water doesnt flow as well as it did when it was new and you might find it'll take longer to shower etc because of this..

    I personally wouldn't go for one..
    They are common in the UK, but not in Ireland because they need consistently good cold water presssure, but if this can be provided with the users own pump it should be Ok....
    tp25 wrote: »
    I heard this statement was true with ''older'' boilers, I read on UK forums about this (boilers installed in late 90's)
    Looking closer at current technology, Viessmann uses the stainless steel Inox-Radial heat exchanger with 10 year warranty. That's fine with me.
    Many Thanks for your opinion!
    That's in the flue, not the water pipe.
    tp25 wrote: »
    100m3 combi boiler burns effectively 91% of the gas

    13% more efficiency there.

    That's because its a condensing combi boiler, not because its a combi.


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    #20
    caesarthechimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭caesarthechimp


    "No, happy with turning on/off immersion, gas manually"
    What's with this option in the poll, do you not have a timeswitch/programmer installed?


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    #21
    Nharrison02
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Nharrison02


    Just turn down the thermostat in the hall so the gas boiler only heats the water for showers etc. no need to heat the rads.


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    #22
    tp25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭tp25


    Enrate wrote: »
    "No, happy with turning on/off immersion, gas manually"
    What's with this option in the poll, do you not have a timeswitch/programmer installed?

    Our programmer (standard programmers in charlesland) does not recognize to heat only water or only radiators. Still the hot water need storage.

    This is the reason I am talking about condensing combi boilers. Instant hot water. Use/ Pay as you go (sort of).
    Nharrison02 wrote: »
    Just turn down the thermostat in the hall so the gas boiler only heats the water for showers etc. no need to heat the rads.

    I know that turning off the thermostat in the hall to ''0'' position so the gas boiler only heats the water in the storage cylinder for showers etc. This exercise requires manual work. Plus to remember to turn ON the thermostat again. Again, this is the reason I am talking about condensing combi boilers.

    First the combi boiler have 4 pipes and not 2, 2 pipes are used in our ''current'' system boilers. Combi boilers have 2 pipes (cold/hot) to support hot water and remaining 2 pipes (cold/hot) to support the radiators + controllers to operate the system.

    Instant hot water is what I dream of and no storage of the water.

    Healthier.


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