transporting a firearm on a motorbike

clint highway

Can anyone give me some advice I intend on carrying a rifle in a gunslip on a motorbike .
this will be a 20 mile round trip from my gaff to the range mainly along a main road but passing through a small town
is their anything i need to do to avoid hassle from the gardai
also is their any law against this

clivej

As long as it's NOT loaded, no mag in and no rounds in the mag, I can't see there being a problem.
Much the same as crossing a road when out hunting. Unload first.

clint highway

cheers

IRLConor

While I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be illegal to do what you're planning on doing, it's not quite what the Gardai want you to do. From the Commissioner's guidelines:

During transport, firearms must always be stored in a case/sleeve, out of sight in a locked vehicle boot. They should not be immediately accessible to the driver or any passenger.

Based on that a particularly cranky Garda might give you some stick about it so I'd try not to draw attention to yourself if possible.

clint highway

thanks for the reply
would it be a good idea to clear it with the FO in my area instead of chancing it

juice1304

I used to cycle with my rifle in a bag on my back never had any problems. The local garda would give me a wave. And someone i know who did'nt know is shoot saw me and thought i had a fishing rod:D so i would'nt worry.

Cass

While not a law the Comm. Guidelines above should be adhered to as best as possible.

If you don't already own a gun slip buy one. As said have it unloaded, and made safe, but most importantly out of sight of others.

Grizzly 45

Knock yourself out and buy a Koplin gun boot..They are designed to be mounted on a bike or ATV,are lockable look like a bike type bit of luggage.Best of all if you should have to ditch the bike in an accident,you wont have a bollexed gun as well as a bike.;)

tac foley

Is there any other way of interpreting the words I have highlighted in red?

'During transport, firearms must always be stored in a case/sleeve, out of sight in a locked vehicle boot. They should not be immediately accessible to the driver or any passenger.'

tac

4gun

tac foley wrote: »

Is there any other way of interpreting the words I have highlighted in red?

'During transport, firearms must always be stored in a case/sleeve, out of sight in a locked vehicle boot. They should not be immediately accessible to the driver or any passenger.'

tac

very simply
Owning a car is not a prerequisite for getting a gun licence,

as for transporting a gun an a motor bike, whats the big deal
all you have to do is ensure the gun is safely attached to the motor bike, if you can lock it on, do it remove the bolt and magazines and put them in your back pack...
last piece of advice if you ride your motor bike with the fear that at at any moment your going to come off it ....dont ride a motorcycle

deeksofdoom

tac foley wrote: »

Is there any other way of interpreting the words I have highlighted in red?

'During transport, firearms must always be stored in a case/sleeve, out of sight in a locked vehicle boot. They should not be immediately accessible to the driver or any passenger.'

tac

Its all fine until some sham see's you passing with a rifle on your back follows you home and then robs your house when your out.

Sell the bike and get a car.

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

Is there any other way of interpreting the words I have highlighted in red?

'During transport, firearms must always be stored in a case/sleeve, out of sight in a locked vehicle boot. They should not be immediately accessible to the driver or any passenger.'

tac

They are in the commissioner's guidelines, and not a matter of law. So once common sense is used there is nothing to stop you doing it.

The passage above, and highlighted words are merely what the commissioner "recommends" should be done when transporting a firearm.

badoobie

if you do have any problems so long as you can prove that you took as many safety precautions as possible you have nothing to fear from the local (or any) guards.
if you are only using it for target practice why not leave it at the range and you can go and visit it and use it on a regular basis.

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

Is there any other way of interpreting the words I have highlighted in red?

It's not so much the words as where they're written.
Specifically, they're not in the Firearms Act, which defines the law; but the Commissioner's guidelines, which indicate how the Commissioner would prefer the Superintendents to enforce that law.
And that's what they represent - a preference. They carry no more legal weight than that. Even if they're written in a tone that says "thou shalt do this or else thou shall be smitten with a Big Stick"...

Having said that, it's usually better not to make trouble for yourself if possible, so we go along with the guidelines rather than specifically butting heads with them wherever possible.

edit: mental note, next time hit refresh before typing up a post, Cass beat me to it...

Sparks

badoobie wrote: »

if you are only using it for target practice why not leave it at the range and you can go and visit it and use it on a regular basis.

Works great if your range has storage faciliites. Outside of the college clubs, I know very very few that do, and the Gardai themselves have not been fans of the idea of storing large numbers of firearms in one isolated spot outside of town where it's not possible to have a rapid response time in case some enterprising burglars arrive there in the middle of the night with a collection of power tools to break into the place...

xchrisshana

just break it down and put it in a backpack (out of sight out of mind)

clivej

xchrisshana wrote: »

just break it down and put it in a backpack (out of sight out of mind)

its a rifle

xchrisshana

clivej wrote: »

its a rifle

Can you not strip down a rifle ???

clint highway

not to the extent of putting it in a back pack

tac foley

xchrisshana wrote: »

just break it down and put it in a backpack (out of sight out of mind)

That is definitely NOT good advice. :eek:

tac

4gun

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Its all fine until some sham see's you passing with a rifle on your back follows you home and then robs your house when your out.

Sell the bike and get a car.

he may see you loading into your car, :rolleyes: why should he sell his bike,
because you think it is unacceptable to transport a firearm on a motorbike.

You are entitled to carry a gun buy whatever means are available to you so long as you do not make a nuisance of your self by openly carrying it.

Furthermore, your gun should be in its safe when your not at home.

I'm beginning to think many firearm owners in this country are paranoid about being robbed, or even to be seen carrying their legally held firearm,
Do ye guys sneak around with them :eek:

If my house was robbed, the loss of my guns would be the least of my worries

Sparks

4gun wrote: »

If my house was robbed, the loss of my guns would be the least of my worries

Really? Assuming, for the moment, that the robbery happens when you're not in the house, I'd think the firearms should be the largest worry you have.

Even just on monetary pragmatism -- my firearms are the most expensive single items I own, with the possible exception of my car (and I think that wouldn't win by very much over either of the rifles). The books are probably worth more all taken together, but I don't think the average scobe is going to wander through a housing estate with four thousand books undetected. The computers are all less than the cost of the rifle (hell, these days €350 gets you a nearly top-of-the-line laptop that's more capable than anyone needs). And I'm not all that odd in this (excepting maybe that I drive a crappier car than anyone else).

And really, I can't think of anything that would cause me more hassle in the aftermath of a robbery if they were stolen. You lose a laptop, the questions are "did I lose data like my bank details" (no, it's an encrypted hard drive) and "did you have the doors locked and the alarm on".
Lose a firearm, and the questions are a little more in-depth.

So personally, there's not much I can think of that I would want stolen less.

4gun

Sparks wrote: »

Really? Assuming, for the moment, that the robbery happens when you're not in the house, I'd think the firearms should be the largest worry you have.

Even just on monetary pragmatism -- my firearms are the most expensive single items I own, with the possible exception of my car (and I think that wouldn't win by very much over either of the rifles). The books are probably worth more all taken together, but I don't think the average scobe is going to wander through a housing estate with four thousand books undetected. The computers are all less than the cost of the rifle (hell, these days €350 gets you a nearly top-of-the-line laptop that's more capable than anyone needs). And I'm not all that odd in this (excepting maybe that I drive a crappier car than anyone else).

And really, I can't think of anything that would cause me more hassle in the aftermath of a robbery if they were stolen. You lose a laptop, the questions are "did I lose data like my bank details" (no, it's an encrypted hard drive) and "did you have the doors locked and the alarm on".
Lose a firearm, and the questions are a little more in-depth.

So personally, there's not much I can think of that I would want stolen less.

In this context Sparks do you value your family's security less than that of your material possessions,
the fact that your home was violated in the first place and your personal sense of safety in your own home is now gone.. that in my opinion is worth a hell of a lot more than any gun.

Why should the theft of a gun from its Garda approved safe be more of a hassle, You have fulfilled your obligation to possessing you firearm, The Garda in this case would be more obliged to ensure the safe return of your property,

Btw do you not have your contents insured against theft,

Sparks

4gun wrote: »

In this context Sparks do you value your family's security less than that of your material possessions,

Like I said above:

Assuming, for the moment, that the robbery happens when you're not in the house

the fact that your home was violated in the first place and your personal sense of safety in your own home is now gone

We've been burgled three times in the last 20 years in the family house, and my car's been broken into twice. I don't feel like I need to burn the house to the ground and build a new one. We just install better locks. As to personal safety in the house, that's an illusion at best anyway.

Why should the theft of a gun from its Garda approved safe be more of a hassle

It shouldn't be.
It also shouldn't be a case of one licence for one gun, it shouldn't be that we guaranteed the bank bondholders and it shouldn't be that we only live for at most one century. I wish it was otherwise. But as they say, **** in one hand and wish in the other, and tell me which hand fills up first...

Btw do you not have your contents insured against theft,

Of course I do - who do you think would be asking if the doors were locked but the insurers?

4gun

Sparks wrote: »

Like I said above:



We've been burgled three times in the last 20 years in the family house, and my car's been broken into twice. I don't feel like I need to burn the house to the ground and build a new one. We just install better locks. As to personal safety in the house, that's an illusion at best anyway.


Jesus The first two times you didnt do a good job, What makes you so confident about the third


It shouldn't be.
It also shouldn't be a case of one licence for one gun, it shouldn't be that we guaranteed the bank bondholders and it shouldn't be that we only live for at most one century. I wish it was otherwise. But as they say, **** in one hand and wish in the other, and tell me which hand fills up first...



Of course I do - who do you think would be asking if the doors were locked but the insurers?

In this scenario I am considering we are all away, I'm assuming every reasonable care to ensure my house is safe has been taken.

I would not even want to consider our house being robbed while we were asleep.
In all honesty would it be worse if your wife and children were at home.

The issue of licencing and banking has to do with what in this "debate" exactly ??.

I asked you which would yo care more to loose The sense or perception of security for you family or your firearms,
both can be replaced in time,


I'd rather loose my guns, If I thought that my house might be burgled on the sole purpose that I have firearms, I would get rid of them, no BS.

Personally I do not dwell on what ifs, If you do all that you can to prevent the crime in the first place then you have done enough.
I have insurance because not only am I required to but it makes good sense

The OP is wondering is it legal to carry a firearm on a motorcycle, as has been pointed out the CS would prefer you transport by car.
The OP may be a student whose only independent means of transport may be his motorbike. He may not be able to afford his own car.

Sparks

4gun wrote: »

Jesus The first two times you didnt do a good job, What makes you so confident about the third

You're just made of sympathy, ain't ya?
And in answer to your question, if someone's working over your back door with a crowbar and a sledge, there's not many locks that'll keep them out and if you think yours can stop that... well, I hope you don't find out how wrong you are. You want defence in depth - ie, good locks, a good alarm, good insurance, and a good distance between you and the house during the robbery.

In all honesty would it be worse if your wife and children were at home.

Indeed - we're in an entirely different world there.

The issue of licencing and banking has to do with what in this "debate" exactly?

Examples of other things which shouldn't be, but are.

I asked you which would yo care more to loose The sense or perception of security for you family or your firearms,
both can be replaced in time,

But you can only steal one from me - the latter. The former doesn't come from having been lucky enough not to be robbed; it comes from having good locks, a good house alarm, insurance, a smoke alarm and CO alarms, health insurance, life insurance, and the dozen other things that you have to keep your family protected. So long as nobody's in the house at the time, being robbed just can't harm us enough for me to lose sleep over. There are other things that are far more worrisome from that point of view.

The OP is wondering is it legal to carry a firearm on a motorcycle, as has been pointed out the CS would prefer you transport by car.
The OP may be a student whose only independent means of transport may be his motorbike. He may not be able to afford his own car.

Exactly.

sfakiaman

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Knock yourself out and buy a Koplin gun boot..They are designed to be mounted on a bike or ATV,are lockable look like a bike type bit of luggage.Best of all if you should have to ditch the bike in an accident,you wont have a bollexed gun as well as a bike.;)

Thats the best bit of advice on this thread, it keeps the rifle safe, dry and out of sight and if you have to do an emergency stop you don't have a rifle in a slip swinging about behind you. As for the Commissioners Guidelines, as stated earlier they are just guidelines and would be impossible to follow for many road users eg. drivers of pickup trucks, small hatchbacks, estate cars or vans. My rifle case will only just fit diagonally in the boot of a VW Bora

tac foley

All this discussion about personal security arrangements is really mootless. The point is, in an atmosphere of disquiet after the blatant slaughter of a Garda detective during a robbery last week, how likely is the OP to actually be ALLOWED to cavort around the countryside and a town on his motocycle with a rifle over his shoulder, like a Swiss militiaman of yore.

Personally, I'd give him five minutes before he is stopped by a roadblock of extremely irate and armed Gardaí.

tac

juice1304

Most people are'nt going to know what is in the bag, Most people in dublin think firearms are either illegal or only farmers can have shotguns. He has just as much of a right to bring his rifle on his bike as anyone with a car. And i don't think the fact a garda got shot is going to make a difference other than the fact rifles are seldom if ever used in crimes what criminal is going to not try and hide the fact he has a firearm. It is'nt against the law and if he is harassed or has some plank take his rifle he has a case for discrimination.
If you are worried someone will know what is in the bag have a look at eberlestock bags no one is going to know what is in the bag then.

Sparks

To re-quote an RUC officer from quite a long time ago tac, "It's not the ones with licences that we're worried about"...

4gun

"You're just made of sympathy, ain't ya?"


Meant to be more of a poke that a criticism

clint highway

just back from having a chat with the firearms officer
the jist of it was as long as its in a slip with the bolt and magazine carried seperatly in a rucksack and i am travelling to the range theirs no problem
thanks to all for their advice

Sparks

clint highway wrote: »

the jist of it was as long as its in a slip with the bolt and magazine carried seperatly in a rucksack and i am travelling to the range theirs no problem

A good end result, thanks for the update clint.

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

All this discussion about personal security arrangements is really mootless. The point is, in an atmosphere of disquiet after the blatant slaughter of a Garda detective during a robbery last week, how likely is the OP to actually be ALLOWED to cavort around the countryside and a town on his motocycle with a rifle over his shoulder, like a Swiss militiaman of yore.

Personally, I'd give him five minutes before he is stopped by a roadblock of extremely irate and armed Gardaí.

tac

The tragedy you refer to, while a horrible act of cowardice perpetrated by the lowest layer of scum on the planet (as polite as i can put on an open forum), may for a brief period impose higher levels of inspection by An Gardaí, but the same rule applies. Use common sense.

Where i used to live when walking from my house to the local wood (some 800 yards) i carried the shotgun in a slip, and when i get there hung it on a tree until i'm finished shooting. For no other reason than to give a little peace of mind to the new residents in the houses newly built along my path.

clint highway wrote: »

just back from having a chat with the firearms officer
the jist of it was as long as its in a slip with the bolt and magazine carried seperatly in a rucksack and i am travelling to the range theirs no problem
thanks to all for their advice

As said, a good result, and in keeping with the common sense appraoch outlined in this thread.

hedzball

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Sell the bike and get a car.

Absolute bollox.






'hdz

popeye22

you have no problem in what u propose, once the gun is unloaded and covered, and you have your licence on hand, but keep moving,

session savage

Last time I was in the bike shop in Clonmel having my usual drool fest I spotted a gun case specifically for motorbikes. It was ABS plastic (judging by the look) and was lockable.
Theres surely no Garda that would question you if you had a firearm stored in a case designed specially for that purpose.

The Aussie

It is funny how different countries have different Laws, this is one of the biggest No No's in Australia after a little misunderstanding between the Bandidos and Comancheros in Milperra in Western Sydney.

Glencree

You own a gun, you want to transport it on a bike, go ahead, just have the common sense to carry it in a way that doesnt draw attention to you as a gun owner. personally Ive done it, in its slip, inside a soft guitar case...easy, I've mates who have their slips covered in Gone Fishing stickers etc.


The problem is that the general public have a perception of firearms, they don't know the legalities, and when they see someone with one where it looks dodgy they call the Gardai, who then have to assume the worst, rush to scene, putting themselves and others at risk, while taking those resources away from real incidents where Gardai are needed.

Enjoy your shooting, don't draw unwanted attention to yourself and keep safe.