Voting at age 16, trouble ahead?

Mycroft H

P_1 wrote: »

Now are the turkeys in power going to vote for Christmas?

From what I can tell this Convention can only make recommendations not actually change the law.

I expect to see an X Case type burial of this by the powers that be

We'd have to vote in referendum to change it.

P_1

BX 19 wrote: »

We'd have to vote in referendum to change it.

Yes but would they give us the referendum?

UCDVet

Instead of allowing people to vote based on age (which is a poor indicator of maturity or the ability to make informed, rational decisions), I think we should use an actual test.

I'm in my 30s and I'm a horrible driver. I don't even have a license to drive in Ireland currently. There are kids who can drive better than me. It's great that we have an actual test, instead of assuming I can drive better than every 21 year old, just because I'm older.

I've seen political posts on Facebook from people that seem completely unable to grasp even the most basic concepts. They shouldn't be voting.

And I don't mean this as an insult. For years I knew nothing about politics, but was of legal age to vote. I couldn't possibly have an informed opinion on anything. So I didn't vote...and I don't think I should have been allowed to.

Bullseye1

Vito Corleone wrote: »

No, they shouldn't be allowed to vote. Most 16 year olds are idiots.

Oh yeah it was 16 year olds that kept voting in FF.

Mycroft H

P_1 wrote: »

Yes but would they give us the referendum?

Well that's another story. The government has committed to respond formally (debate in the Oireachtas) to any decision made by the convention.

Sierra Oscar

If it was that close a vote in the convention itself I cant see it passing a referendum. In fact considering the vote was so tight it would not surprise me if the government don't bother endorsing the recommendation.

My name is URL

Itzy wrote: »

Not every 17 might be childish, but they're far more common at that age. I'd agree with keeping the voting age at 18.

Before 1973 the voting age was 21, and lowering it to 18 didn't cause any huge problems. I don't think lowering it a further 1-2 years would cause problems either.

With the history of very low voter turnouts that Ireland has I think it'd be a good move to lower it. Younger people are extremely apathetic towards politics, and anything that can capture their interest and input is a good thing imo.

They're all just arbitrary numbers anyway... it's silly to say that in general a 17 yo isn't mature enough to vote while accepting that in general 18 year olds are.

catallus

What is the rationale for this proposal? Why the constant desire from the powers that be to dilute the democratic power of citizens? Are they so fearful of the will of the people that they offer the mandate to children so as to lessen the sovereignty of the individual? Raise the voting age to 40!

kraggy

Can see an increase in Sinn Fein's vote if this goes through.

_rebelkid

When I was 16, which was only 2 years ago, I would have loved to have been able to vote. Looking back, I was actually quite aware of what was happening in political circles in Ireland, and in the EU. But the rest of my peers, not so much.

There are a lot of very politically aware 16/17 year olds, but there are as many impressionable idiots around as well. But that impressionability does span across most of the age groups.

Personally, I would be in favor of the lowering, but would be very tentative about the timing of when it is enforced. There are a few "big decisions" that will need to be voted on in the next 3/4 years, so when it would be put in place would be a worry.

_rebelkid

http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2013/0127/ireland/constitutional-convention-votes-for-lowering-voting-age-but-against-shorter-presidential-term-582715.html

Pumpkinseeds

I think there are far more important things to be spending money on rather than 'think tanks' on lowering the voting age. I am 40 and I vote but to be honest I wouldn't bother my arse voting in a referendum on this. In my opinion lowering the voting age is not particularly important to the voting public and wouldn't have any significant impact on the future of the country.

It sounds like the kind of waste of money that could have been tackled during the boom years while the goverment were happily wasting money on other expensive and pointless things. I really don't think that the majority of the electorate would bother to vote in a referendum on this either. I'm sick and tired of referendums at this point.

Artful_Badger

Dean0088 wrote: »

The Constitutional Convention being held this weekend just voted in favor of lowering the voting age to sixteen.



http://jrnl.ie/771334

I'm 21 now and and fairly interested in politics, current affairs and so on.

I remember thinking when I was sixteen that I should have been allowed vote. Now however, I'm completely against it.

Looking back I remember how immature I was - often believing stupid statements and promises made by both sides but in particular the hard left.

I'm sure there are sixteen year old's mature enough to cast a vote they truly believe in - but, in general, it's too young for many still going through the normal teen rebellion crap.

I could see Sinn Fein in particular targeting these voters with patriotic **** as they already do with their own youth organisations and others aligned with them.

What think ye, AH? Should the nippers be allowed vote after the Junior Cert is over and done with?

Every party would target those who are easily swayed with sound bites not just the left. FG and Labour are in government on the back of that. So 16/46 does it really matter ? No, the majority of the populace will always be swayed by allegiance to parties and/or sound bites that misdirect people about a given parties future actions.

Eve_Dublin

Quazzie wrote: »

I can see this resulting in a huge surge in votes for SF

And this is why it's an awful idea.




16 year olds are not adults and only adults should vote. Something so important as deciding who runs the country should be made by adults only. Yes, you meet some mature 16 year olds and immature and uninformed 18/30/40 year olds but the chances of you having more of a clue increase as you get older. I think even 18 is too young tbh.

Why would they bother with this? It's hardly a pressing issue.

Pumpkinseeds

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And this is why it's an awful idea.




16 year olds are not adults and only adults should vote. Something so important as deciding who runs the country should be made by adults only. Yes, you meet some mature 16 year olds and immature and uninformed 18/30/40 year olds but the chances of you having more of a clue increase as you get older. I think even 18 is too young tbh.

Why would they bother with this? It's hardly a pressing issue.

I think its as a result of falling voter numbers. The only people such a change in voting age would benefit is political parties.

Artful_Badger

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And this is why it's an awful idea.




16 year olds are not adults and only adults should vote. Something so important as deciding who runs the country should be made by adults only. Yes, you meet some mature 16 year olds and immature and uninformed 18/30/40 year olds but the chances of you having more of a clue increase as you get older. I think even 18 is too young tbh.

Why would they bother with this? It's hardly a pressing issue.

A 16 year old with an interest will make a more informed decision than a 50 year old without an interest. It really has nothing to do with age. So if you're of age to start contributing to society then you're of age to get a say.

If people want people to be more mature and informed when voting then education is where you start, not age restrictions.

P_1

IMO a 16 year old voter who's clued in on the issues is a much better voter than a 30/40/50 year old sheep voter who only votes for a particular party because thet's who their mother/father voted for

Sinfonia

My name is URL wrote: »

Before 1973 the voting age was 21, and lowering it to 18 didn't cause any huge problems. I don't think lowering it a further 1-2 years would cause problems either.

With the history of very low voter turnouts that Ireland has I think it'd be a good move to lower it. Younger people are extremely apathetic towards politics, and anything that can capture their interest and input is a good thing imo.

They're all just arbitrary numbers anyway... it's silly to say that in general a 17 yo isn't mature enough to vote while accepting that in general 18 year olds are.

I suppose a problem that arises relates to keeping things consistent across the board.
If a 16 year old is mature and responsible enough to vote, are they also mature and responsible enough for other things limited to age, e.g. dhrinkin', shmokin' an' roidin'

My name is URL

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And this is why it's an awful idea.




16 year olds are not adults and only adults should vote. Something so important as deciding who runs the country should be made by adults only. Yes, you meet some mature 16 year olds and immature and uninformed 18/30/40 year olds but the chances of you having more of a clue increase as you get older. I think even 18 is too young tbh.

Why would they bother with this? It's hardly a pressing issue.

It's an awful idea because people will choose to vote for a party you don't like?

What's the point in basing it on age at all if that's the case? Why not base it on the degree of education a person has, or on employment history, or on tax records? Ensure that the only ones allowed to vote are people that will vote in a similar way to yourself...

Sinfonia

Why are people saying that 16 & 17 year olds would vote strongly for Sinn Féin?

My name is URL

Sinfonia wrote: »

Why are people saying that 16 & 17 year olds would vote strongly for Sinn Féin?

Especially considering FG have the most active and sizable youth wing of any political party in the country...

Eve_Dublin

Artful_Badger wrote: »

A 16 year old with an interest will make a more informed decision than a 50 year old without an interest. It really has nothing to do with age. So if you're of age to start contributing to society then you're of age to get a say.

If people want people to be more mature and informed when voting then education is where you start, not age restrictions.

16 years olds generally have 2 or 3 more years of secondary education to get through though. If education is the most crucial deciding factor on whether you can make an informed decision, then they've a few more years to go yet.


Maturity generally comes with age. That's a fact.

Conmaicne Mara

Voting age should be raised to 21, and voting made compulsory for every citizen with a €500 fine for not voting without an agreed get out like medical issue, out of the country, crucial work etc.

Sorry, but teenagers are too impressionable generally. There are idiots of all age brackets but I am still against lowering the voting age.

Eve_Dublin

My name is URL wrote: »

It's an awful idea because people will choose to vote for a party you don't like?

What's the point in basing it on age at all if that's the case? Why not base it on the degree of education a person has, or on employment history, or on tax records? Ensure that the only ones allowed to vote are people that will vote in a similar way to yourself...

That was a joke.


They're not mature enough to vote. They live at home with their parents, have no real obligations, haven't finished formal education and have not reached adulthood. That's why they shouldn't be able to vote.

coffee_cake

_rebelkid wrote: »

Personally, I would be in favor of the lowering, but would be very tentative about the timing of when it is enforced. There are a few "big decisions" that will need to be voted on in the next 3/4 years, so when it would be put in place would be a worry.

That's a bit ridiculous. Either they can handle voting or they can't. Saying "you can vote when all the important things are out of the way" is daft

Sinfonia

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

and voting made compulsory for every citizen

Why?

The Road Runner

I reckon at 16 most would vote the same as their parents or group of friends are voting

Conmaicne Mara

Sinfonia wrote: »

Why?

To combat disgracefully low turn outs.

Galwayguy35

Best to keep it at 18 I think.

Most 16 year olds wouldn't have a clue who to vote for.

My name is URL

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

That was a joke.


They're not mature enough to vote. They live at home with their parents, have no real obligations, haven't finished formal education and have not reached adulthood. That's why they shouldn't be able to vote.

But that's the thing, apart from the reaching of adulthood, what you say doesn't apply to every 17 year old.

I started college when I had just turned 17, was living on my own away from home and held down an evening job to pay my way. There are thousands of 17 year olds in that same position today.

They should have chance to vote if they wish to do so. I mean there are 30 year olds still living at home, some of whom have no formal education and rely on state handouts to survive.. and they are encouraged to vote.

I just don't see the point in denying every single 17 year old the right to exercise a democratic duty. As has been said already, those with no interest in politics are unlikely to bother voting. But if there are even a few 17 yo's that want to make an informed decision and vote accordingly they shouldn't be prohibited from doing so.