Stick your Promissory Note deal up your arse Kenny.

woodoo

The ECB have told Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan to stick their Promissory Note proposal where the sun don't shine.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/26/us-ecb-ireland-idUSBRE90P0DT20130126

Very Embarrassing for the government. It looks like we will have to pay back every last cent we supposedly owe?

3.1 billion is due to be paid on 31st March 2013. Should we just not pay the damn thing and see where that takes us.

mfceiling

Be funny alright.

Noonan on phone "about that 3.1 billion - we haven't got it. We looked everywhere and we don't have it. Sure listen if it turns up we'll give you a text. Good luck"

Biggins

Just read that elsewhere.
Once again after all his waffling of future deals, once again he's been exposed as full of empty results.

EURATS

Biggins wrote: »

Just read that elsewhere.
Once again after all his waffling of future deals, once again he's been exposed as full of empty results.

Full of empty results is a nice way of putting it.
Nothing but a winker.

Biggins

THE European Central Bank has rejected the Government's preferred solution to the cost of paying back money borrowed to rescue Anglo after the property market crash, EU sources have said.

The Government wants to avoid paying €3.1 billion a year until 2023 to service a promissory note it issued to underwrite Anglo Irish Bank during the financial crisis of 2008.

Finance Minister Michael Noonan had proposed converting the note into long-term government bonds that would be taken up by the Irish Central Bank with the intention of keeping the bonds in its portfolio for a long period.

The sources said the ECB's Governing Council discussed the plan for the first time at a meeting on Wednesday and Thursday and agreed that it amounted to "monetary financing" of the Irish government, banned under article 123 of the EU treaty.

Article continues: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ecb-rejects-governments-preferred-deal-on-promissory-notes-3367619.html

GRMA

Good, the deal was ****e anyway, paying it out over a longer period is a joke, it shouldn't be paid at all.

massive debt write down is the only acceptable "deal"

EURATS

GRMA wrote: »

Good, the deal was ****e anyway, paying it out over a longer period is a joke, it shouldn't be paid at all.

massive debt write down is the only acceptable "deal"

Give them some horse meat and a kick in the holy jaysus

Kristopherus

Baldy should refuse everything till he gets a decent percentage write-down:(

Seaneh

The ECB are actually ****ing idiots.

They are the reason the Eurozone is in the **** and they are answerable to ****ing nobody, it's a joke.

mikom

Is there anything to be said for another mass atop Croagh patrick.........

3ndahalfof6

I love the we, you mean the other (the people).

Conmaicne Mara

Nooney should pen a note back to the ECB.

"Ah, that's grand lads. Sure ye're not listening to us so we've no avenue left, ah, open except to, ah, default. Good luck with Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece after that. Hope ye can make it for the Gathering."

TheBody

Absolute shower of cnuts.

Pottler

TheBody wrote: »

Absolute shower of cnuts.

Which ones? Ye honestly think they really tried to get a deal? They couldn't negotiate with the village idiot, bunch of schoolteachers, where exactly do ye think they are going to get negotiating skills from? Years of experience convincing kids to do their homework? "Give us a deal on the borrowings or we'll send a letter home to your mammy and daddy"...

oppenheimer1

Why do people bother listening to these press releases/leaks etc? This is all part of the negotiation game. Each side is using the media to advance their own position - this is just a response to the noises that were being made at Davos during the week, its a blunt reminder to everyone that the ECB has to be on board too.

Its in the ECB's interest that Ireland is viewed as a successful rescue. It doesn't want to pay too much for this. Ireland won't get all of its demands.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Give it to 'em in scratchcards!

It would be deadly to see three aul biddies and Mario Draghi up there. We could have Noonan and Honohan in the crowd with homemade plackards.

I hope he gets to spin the wheel.

Sand

No surprise really. The ECB isnt going to set a far reaching and (in it's eyes and the eyes of the Germans) dangerous precedent for Ireland. Official Ireland have been making fools of themselves for the past few years thinking otherwise. They happily splurged on debt to bail out banks and delay spending cuts for as long as possible. They were convinced some "grand bargain" was coming down the tracks and they only had to play for time. Well, they were wrong. The administration from 2007 onwards took a bad situation and made it much worse. And Irish people are going to have to pay for that mistake for decades.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why do people bother listening to these press releases/leaks etc? This is all part of the negotiation game. Each side is using the media to advance their own position - this is just a response to the noises that were being made at Davos during the week, its a blunt reminder to everyone that the ECB has to be on board too.

Its in the ECB's interest that Ireland is viewed as a successful rescue. It doesn't want to pay too much for this. Ireland won't get all of its demands.

Nonsense. The ECB couldn't care less if Ireland is viewed as a successful rescue. It wants the promissory notes paid back, on schedule to the very last cent plus interest. Once it gets that it couldn't give a damn about Irish sob stories. Especially when presented by Irish civil servants on amazing salaries and pensions.

However, once it gets paid back on schedule to the very last cent plus interest its not bothered what we do - so expect to see a "deal" like the one from last March announced soon.

Dyr

Seaneh wrote: »

The ECB are actually ****ing idiots.

They are the reason the Eurozone is in the **** and they are answerable to ****ing nobody, it's a joke.

They are answerable to ze germans

conorhal

The EU and it's entities like the ECB are nakedly corporatist and will always protect corporate interests against those of nation states and their citizens, and I say that as sombody that has no time for 'anti-capitalists' and their irrational gibberish.
We have ceeded so much power to the centralised bureaucratic corporatist entity that is the EU that they can bend us over a barrel if they like because we have no power to hold them accountable, we sold it long ago.

I really think the brits are correct at this stage with their demands for a retrenchment of powers and a return to an EU (or relationship with the EU) closer to that of the old EEC, I wish them the best of luck with that, there's at least some chance for them to save themselves.
Ireland at this stage have all the negociating strength of a Donegal county councillor crying about a hospital closure, so it really doesn't matter what we propose,even if it was the most rational and brilliant proposal in the world, it's easily ignored. The truth is that we have no negociating position because we have no power to negociate, only beg like a serf, our only hope is some sop thrown in our direction just to shut us up.
At least when we had our own currency and laws Noonan and Co. had to pay some lip service to the public and notions of statehood, nationalism and the common good every few years to keep their jobs, there was at least the prospect of accountability. This ain't the case with the EU.

The more power we agree to centralise with these unaccountable scum the more we will suffer, remember that the next time you're asked to vote on an EU referendum.

squod

.


http://youtu.be/RUHQWi0Bs-0?t=2m59s

TLDL ; Throw us a bone to keep us from having an uprising. National banks buying government bonds to tie their debts into sovereign debt.

TLDR; politicians are scum.

Lingua Franca

Stealth Recce wrote: »

Give it to 'em in scratchcards!

It would be deadly to see three aul biddies and Mario Draghi up there. We could have Noonan and Honohan in the crowd with homemade plackards.

I hope he gets to spin the wheel.

This has me in bits, thanks for the laugh!

woodoo

Seaneh wrote: »

The ECB are actually ****ing idiots.

They are the reason the Eurozone is in the **** and they are answerable to ****ing nobody, it's a joke.

Trichet who made the decision is lying with his feet up now in the south of France without a worry in the world.

oppenheimer1

Sand wrote: »

No surprise really. The ECB isnt going to set a far reaching and (in it's eyes and the eyes of the Germans) dangerous precedent for Ireland. Official Ireland have been making fools of themselves for the past few years thinking otherwise. They happily splurged on debt to bail out banks and delay spending cuts for as long as possible. They were convinced some "grand bargain" was coming down the tracks and they only had to play for time. Well, they were wrong. The administration from 2007 onwards took a bad situation and made it much worse. And Irish people are going to have to pay for that mistake for decades.



Nonsense. The ECB couldn't care less if Ireland is viewed as a successful rescue. It wants the promissory notes paid back, on schedule to the very last cent plus interest. Once it gets that it couldn't give a damn about Irish sob stories. Especially when presented by Irish civil servants on amazing salaries and pensions.

However, once it gets paid back on schedule to the very last cent plus interest its not bothered what we do - so expect to see a "deal" like the one from last March announced soon.

I'm afraid it does care. If Ireland cannot be saved by following the bailout programme slavishly than what future has the single currency got.

While the ECB mightn't care much for Ireland, it does care about the integrity of the currency. The success of Ireland (or not as the case may be) will influence the view of credibility of the currency and its institutions in many peoples eyes. Remember its only trust that keeps the system hanging together and without it it will all fall apart quite quickly.

conorhal

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm afraid it does care. If Ireland cannot be saved by following the bailout programme slavishly than what future has the single currency got.

While the ECB mightn't care much for Ireland, it does care about the integrity of the currency. The success of Ireland (or not as the case may be) will influence the view of credibility of the currency and its institutions in many peoples eyes. Remember its only trust that keeps the system hanging together and without it it will all fall apart quite quickly.

Trust isn't the only method of maintaining control, fear works pretty well too, the ECB could view our citizens as acceptable collatoral damage and or a harsh lesson to the rest of the Euro zone states to keep them in line, we after all, are not 'too big to fail'.

petersburg2002

So the Greeks get massive writedowns and pay no interest for a decade while the best behaved pupil in Europe gets fcuk all. You couldn't make it up.

Seaneh

petersburg2002 wrote: »

So the Greeks get massive writedowns and pay no interest for a decade while the best behaved pupil in Europe gets fcuk all. You couldn't make it up.

Yeah, it's a joke.
Do what you're told and get shafted again and again, defy the masters and get special treatment.

Time to start telling the rest of europe to go **** themselves and look after ourselves first for once!

conorhal

Seaneh wrote: »

Yeah, it's a joke.
Do what you're told and get shafted again and again, defy the masters and get special treatment.

Time to start telling the rest of europe to go **** themselves and look after ourselves first for once!

Lets be honest, nobody respects a subserviant, sniveling arse-lick, so it's no surprise that they beat us up for our lunch money...

Bullseye1

conorhal wrote: »

Lets be honest, nobody respects a subserviant, sniveling arse-lick, so it's no surprise that they beat us up for our lunch money...

Agreed. Noonan is out of his league as are most if not all Dail members. And the civil servants are not fit for purpose.

force eleven

The ECB is run by the German banks. The German banks lent billions to zombie banks promoting high falutin' pyramid schemes. They knew the risks. The bet failed. Now they want you to pay everything. It's the way the world works now. Central Banks are evil greedy lending corporations in effect, who control governments.

Mark200

Pottler wrote: »

Which ones? Ye honestly think they really tried to get a deal? They couldn't negotiate with the village idiot, bunch of schoolteachers, where exactly do ye think they are going to get negotiating skills from? Years of experience convincing kids to do their homework? "Give us a deal on the borrowings or we'll send a letter home to your mammy and daddy"...

Um the IMF have been on our side on this issue for a long time, calling for a debt deal. And so have Germany. The ECB rejected the proposed solution due to legal issues. Germany have also said before that they consider Ireland to be a special case, but that it's up to us to ensure that any proposed deal would not open the door for other programme countries to get the same deal. Obviously this balance was not achieved in the plan that the ECB reviewed. It's not all down to "negotiating skill", it's down to legal technicalities.

ThreeLineWhip

Ireland need to get up off it's knees and develop a backbone. Default.

flutered

bail out two is looming, baldy and the eunech are not from the real world, cosseted by generous salarys and perks all their working lives, i have said ofted and have been derided and abused for it, adams and company have many years of negeotations behind them, give them the deck, let them arugue with the ecb.

DarkJager

Yup that gob****e Kenny has never wavered from playing teachers pet to the EU and then we get **** all for it. And even worse, it also means stories like this:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/42-of-europes-banking-crisis-paid-by-ireland-219703.html

Ireland has paid 42% of the total cost of the European banking crisis, at a cost of close to €9,000 per person, according to Eurostat.

Pottler

Mark200 wrote: »

Um the IMF have been on our side on this issue for a long time, calling for a debt deal. And so have Germany. The ECB rejected the proposed solution due to legal issues. Germany have also said before that they consider Ireland to be a special case, but that it's up to us to ensure that any proposed deal would not open the door for other programme countries to get the same deal. Obviously this balance was not achieved in the plan that the ECB reviewed. It's not all down to "negotiating skill", it's down to legal technicalities.

ROTFLMAO. That is all. To every bit of this post. This post does indeed have the Ghey, on more levels than many. It got thanked! Brilliant!! (you were joking, right??)

Default on the lot, and I'm serious about that. Sure things will be hard for the short term but we'd bounce back much quicker.

gallag

Completly on the irish peoples side on this but I don't think doing something about the highest paid civil service in the eu would hurt negotiations. Can anyone tell me why enda gets more than Cameron? Your leaders are going cap in hand to people that probably earn less than them, and whos to say they would not congratulate them selves with a pay rise if they get a deal?

Ghandee

Reminds me in that scene in the Simpsons.

You know the one with Castro and the trillion dollar bill?

Enda has the shiniest knob in the room now.

woodoo

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Agreed. Noonan is out of his league as are most if not all Dail members. And the civil servants are not fit for purpose.

Seeing Kenny getting interview by the BBC journalist in Davos was very worrying. Kenny didn't even seem capable of following the questions. He had stock answers and just rolled them out. I can't imagine him getting Ireland case across in the necessary manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIOJQUxmrA8

Rebelkell

woodoo wrote: »

Seeing Kenny getting interview by the BBC journalist in Davos was very worrying. Kenny didn't even seem capable of following the questions. He had stock answers and just rolled them out. I can't imagine him getting Ireland case across in the necessary manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIOJQUxmrA8

Oh Sh1te we're [EMAIL="F@#ked"]F@#ked[/EMAIL]!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ghandee

Eh..... 1.40 in..... ^^

No we fu¢king don't understand Enda!

Why are you still entertaining bondholders, why are you still 'covering' the debts of a now defunct, fraudulent bank, a la Anglo?

Finger in the pie?

phoenix999

woodoo wrote: »

Seeing Kenny getting interview by the BBC journalist in Davos was very worrying. Kenny didn't even seem capable of following the questions. He had stock answers and just rolled them out. I can't imagine him getting Ireland case across in the necessary manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIOJQUxmrA8

And while people always take the piss out Westminster's posh MPs who were educated at Eton, Oxford and the like. At least they are articulate and well educated. Our bunch of publicans and 2nd rate teachers are beyond embarassing. Even with spin doctors and advisers they can't look credible. Excruciatingly painful to watch.

woodoo

phoenix999 wrote: »

And while people always take the piss out Westminster's posh MPs who were educated at Eton, Oxford and the like. At least they are articulate and well educated. Our bunch of publicans and 2nd rate teachers are beyond embarassing. Even with spin doctors and advisers they can't look credible. Excruciatingly painful to watch.

The politics here is all wrong. Can you imagine going into David Cameron or George Osborne's office and asking them to get you a Medical Card or to help you get planning on something ridiculous lol.

alphabeat

while we allow teachers ,publicans f,armers with massive egos to run our country we will always be fcuked .

and as long as they can maintain the cosy nest at the top for themselves and future power addicts with no concern for the country or people in ireland we will be fcuked

we have been sold into EU slavery for ever , no other words to describe it .

dvpower

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Ireland need to get up off it's knees and develop a backbone.

We should stand up?

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Default.

We should collapse?

sfwcork

As we speak noonan is currently lifting up the cushions on the couch in his office looking for loose change

"Come here draghi kid ive got around a score here in change,that keeps us Cool for a few weeks yeah.IVe a few quid coming my way from a job I did there last week so il sort ya when yeman gives me that"

Rereggie Perrin

The level of public ignorance about this stuff after several years is still staggering. The usual guff about 'burn the bondholders' (those bonds are nearly all paid off now).

It's the current deficit that is the real problem - and every single attempt to tackle it with cuts is met with further bleating from every single interest group in the country.

We have the politicians we deserve. The electorate are f*cking idiots.

juan.kerr

This is the reward we get for voting YES? Shower of Eurocrat Ku*tz. The UK has the right idea.

Rereggie Perrin

juan.kerr wrote: »

This is the reward we get for voting YES? Shower of Eurocrat Ku*tz. The UK has the right idea.

Yes, we'd be much better off going back to the isolationist Ireland of the 50s. We were all rich then. None of this stuff is our fault...

lightspeed

Did anybody read the part that said it would in direct violation of EU law

"Reuters quoted sources who said that the ECB's Governing Council had discussed the plan for the first time at a meeting on Wednesday and Thursday and agreed that it amounted to "monetary financing" of the Government, banned under article 123 of the EU treaty.".

To be fair, its not the fault of the Ecb that Enda and noonon were arrogant to believe that the ECB would skirt around existing law.

According to Rte, they are still working on some kind of deal.

I thought pat rabbite said a few weeks ago that we wont be paying the promissory note in march unless a deal is done so why are Enda and noonan chasing after a deal at all?

So should we not just say to the ECB, look get into touch when you are ready to deal otherwise there will be no money paid for this promissory note ****e at all. The matter us now closed until then and we wont discuss anything further on this issue.

Chips Lovell

ECB is denying the story:

The European Central Bank has dismissed reports that Ireland's preferred option on the promissory note deal had been rejected, saying negotiations were still under way and conclusions on their outcome were premature.

Rereggie Perrin

lightspeed wrote: »

I thought pat rabbite said a few weeks ago that we wont be paying the promissory note in march unless a deal is done so why are Enda and noonan chasing after a deal at all?

So should we not just say to the ECB, look get into touch when you are ready to deal otherwise there will be no money paid for this promissory note ****e at all. The matter us now closed until then and we wont discuss anything further on this issue.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that we would be giving a big f*ck off to the guys we are relying on to fund our €10,000,000,000 (give or take) current account deficit. Do you see the problem with that at all? :rolleyes: