Pre pay power

.G.

ted1 wrote: »

Change out all the bulbs, I'm sure you fine this .
Stick a timer switch on mon essentials. I had the TV, blue ray , amp, sub woofer , Apple TV , hard drive upc, broadband and phone all on at the same time. I put the phone, UPC and broadband on one adopter and then put a timer on the others. Turns off a 2am and back on at 9 am . That's 180 hours a month if things on standby eliminated

I use CFL or 4w LED throughout the house and they are off unless someone is in the room in question. Nothing gets left on standby ever,if its not being used its plugged out. The only things using power at night or when we are out is the fridge and the house alarm. All of this has always been the case but our usage still went up

The reason for the shock with the bill was because our usage habits didn't seem to change but our usage almost doubled so clearly they did change and we didn't notice.

The monitor helps spot things that are power hungry so we can limit use,like my PC which I built for gaming a few years back with high end power hungry parts and may no longer be as power efficient as it once was so have to cut back on that.

Have the Owl monitor in about 2 weeks now and all in all it seems we are heading for a "normal" bill next time out.

I wouldn't go pre pay,doesn't appear to save much if anything from what I can see here. Just get a usage monitor,watch it closely and switch supplier to whichever one offers the best deal at the time.

Bonkers.ie very good for cost comparisons.

cast_iron

ted1 wrote: »

But no one pays standard rate, there is the direct debit discount and the ebills discount , so it's more than just 37.5c a say

Which means this pre pay is all the more expensive again, does it not? As they don't seem to offer any discount like that.

I can't see how paying them an extra €25 odd euro per bi-monthly bill is seen as a way of saving money.
If people are tight on money, it's completely illogical to have this extra charge on your bill every time.
Just use some cop on and don't waste power, or purchase an owl monitor with a one off charge to monitor usage.

Madam_X

False economy if the units cost more. You can still make pre payments/monitor your usage if you get a bill. As far as I know, you have to be in arrears for ESB/Airtricity/BG to install a pre-pay meter.

What's the deal with the PrePay Power meter and using more than you've paid in for? Do you get cut off after a certain point if you don't top up or does it let arrears build?

Please Kill Me

Madam_X wrote: »

What's the deal with the PrePay Power meter and using more than you've paid in for? Do you get cut off after a certain point if you don't top up or does it let arrears build?

I signed up with these yesterday. When talking to the rep, he explained that when you run out of "credit", you get cut off. However, they "promise" not to cut you off if it's the weekend, but will at 8am on the Monday morning. When you then top up, you're working from a negative. So if you've used €10 over the weekend and top up by €20, you're only getting €10 worth.

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

Which means this pre pay is all the more expensive again, does it not? As they don't seem to offer any discount like that.

Yea thats what ted was getting at I think.

I can't see how paying them an extra €25 odd euro per bi-monthly bill is seen as a way of saving money.

I dont think thats the idea. It helps people budget better. But it really helps the utility company as much or more, by getting extra money from people that may be on the pre pay because of difficulty, and delayed payments and hounding them for money, is eliminated.

If people are tight on money, it's completely illogical to have this extra charge on your bill every time.

Yea it is, as again, its of more benefit to the provider, and they charge for it. It should be no dearer than the standard billing method.

Just use some cop on and don't waste power, or purchase an owl monitor with a one off charge to monitor usage.

Even using the absolute minimum, it can still be quite expensive though. What is easy to pay for one family, might be difficult for others.

ted1

Please Kill Me wrote: »

I signed up with these yesterday. When talking to the rep, he explained that when you run out of "credit", you get cut off. However, they "promise" not to cut you off if it's the weekend, but will at 8am on the Monday morning. When you then top up, you're working from a negative. So if you've used €10 over the weekend and top up by €20, you're only getting €10 worth.

Don't forget 20c bank charges with every top up.

So a good bit dearer, you can set up board gains or Esb on Internet banking and transfer when ever you have money, I transfer about 35 every second week and rarely have to pay a bill.

You should think about doing something like that as it works out much cheaper

Bruthal

ted1 wrote: »

you can set up Esb on Internet banking and transfer when ever you have money, I transfer about 35 every second week and rarely have to pay a bill.

Yea thats what I do myself

Claregirl

We got a shocker of a bill just before Christmas and went all gung-ho trying our best to get it down - just got Jan bill and we managed to save a whole euro

I've a good idea what's causing the wastage one teenager - daily showers for 15mins, cleans his room by filling the washing basket constantly eating (using oven) and filling the dishwasher - feck sake I caught him one morning with just his underwear in the dryer - he wanted them warmed up before he put em on:eek:.

I'd be embarrassed to tell people what our bill is it's crazy for three of us especially when we're all out of the house Mon - Fri

Thinking of changing to Eirtricity as they're showing up as cheapest on Bonkers.ie but not sure can the rate be increased during the 1 year contract?

cast_iron

Bruthal wrote: »

I dont think thats the idea. It helps people budget better.

I know I might sounds a bit smart saying this, but anyone who is tight on money, really shouldn't be spending more as a way of trying to save it. It's a complete false economy, and will only leave them worse off, regardless of what they think.
Paying someone €25 bi-monthly, just to keep a better eye on usage makes no sense to me. Unless you are wasting power by having lights and heaters/immersions etc. on unnecessarily, you will save nothing.
A once off charge for an owl monitor will show you exactly what you are using, i think they even have a cost setting to tell you exactly how much things are costing you.

Yea it is, as again, its of more benefit to the provider, and they charge for it. It should be no dearer than the standard billing method.

I don't agree there. If people are willing to pay for a service, then I say fair play to any company who can make a few bob from it. It is not an essential service.
And they must recoup the install and parts costs somehow.

The internet banking idea seems a far better idea than this prepay power if you ask me.

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

I know I might sounds a bit smart saying this, but anyone who is tight on money, really shouldn't be spending more as a way of trying to save it. It's a complete false economy, and will only leave them worse off, regardless of what they think.
Paying someone €25 bi-monthly, just to keep a better eye on usage makes no sense to me. Unless you are wasting power by having lights and heaters/immersions etc. on unnecessarily, you will save nothing.

Paying as you go, can help some people budget better. A sudden 200 euro bill can leave people badly stuck, where as paying as you go, that wont happen. It might help some people spend a little less on some pints at the weekend etc.

I dont see it as a money saving method, just a better budgeting one. If they only have the exact amount needed to pay all bills without any disposable left, then they cant get by with paying a little extra with pre pay.

A once off charge for an owl monitor will show you exactly what you are using, i think they even have a cost setting to tell you exactly how much things are costing you.

Again, the pre pay is not a money saver imo really. Just a budgeting one.

I don't agree there. If people are willing to pay for a service, then I say fair play to any company who can make a few bob from it. It is not an essential service.

In many cases, its possibly taking advantage of both peoples difficulties, and lack of awareness, so maybe you`re right, fair play to them for seeing the opportunity I suppose.

And they must recoup the install and parts costs somehow.

By indefinitely charging 25 extra bi monthly? They are also saving on billing, collection, and hiring a company to badger people with phone calls.

The internet banking idea seems a far better idea than this prepay power if you ask me.

Thats how I have been doing it for years.

cast_iron

Bruthal wrote: »

Paying as you go, can help some people budget better. A sudden 200 euro bill can leave people badly stuck, where as paying as you go, that wont happen. It might help some people spend a little less on some pints at the weekend etc.

You're not wrong there. But I suppose my point is, that if someone is that tight on money, perhaps they would be better served making an effort to monitor usage and waste than having those pints or whatever they are spending their disposable income on, than paying a premium on their bills.

In many cases, its possibly taking advantage of both peoples difficulties, and lack of awareness, so maybe you`re right, fair play to them for seeing the opportunity I suppose.

By indefinitely charging 25 extra bi monthly? They are also saving on billing, collection, and hiring a company to badger people with phone calls.

That's not a hidden cost! If it was €100 per bill and people were still willing to pay it, then bigger fool them, I say.
And yes, it's nothing more than taking advantage of people who are either struggling with cash flow and/or do not realise it's actually more expensive. However, if people deemed it an unfair or unreasonable service, then it would not pay to offer the service. It's quite simply how all business works, be it right or not. I've yet to meet a business that is a charity.

Personally, I'm all for free enterprise. A huge amount of purchases are on products that people do not actually need. This is one of them. With a bit of awareness and cop on when it comes to power usage, there is no need for such a product. It will only cost the person more in the long run, and perhaps even in the short term.
Essential services are a bit of a different matter, and I'm not in favour of companies profiteering on that.

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

That's not a hidden cost!

Its hardly for installation costs either.

cast_iron

Bruthal wrote: »

Its hardly for installation costs either.

I don't think anyone has said it is. It's irrelevant what the company does with the money anyway.

It's a bit like Sky tv's model of selling their product. Years ago, it would have been about £250 punt to get a sky dish and box in. That must be about €500+ in today's money. Needless to say, Sky was a bit of a luxury back then. These days, they give it to you for (all but) free, but of course the monthly premium is higher. It has proven highly successful as evidenced by the plethora of dishes around the country these days.

It's a bit like a form of credit I suppose. Company forgoes the install charge, but makes it back over time on the subscription charge. That's how people seem to like to buy things these days.
I would guess if pre pay power were to charge the actual cost of installing the meter up front and have a slightly lower service charge, it wouldn't be half as popular. Especially since it's aimed at those with cash flow issues.

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

Bruthal wrote: »

Its hardly for installation costs either.

I don't think anyone has said it is.

cast_iron wrote: »

And they must recoup the install and parts costs somehow.

Perhaps I read it wrong. Wouldnt be the first time. Depends how you interpret it I suppose.

It's a bit like Sky tv's model of selling their product. Years ago, it would have been about £250 punt to get a sky dish and box in. That must be about €500+ in today's money. Needless to say, Sky was a bit of a luxury back then. These days, they give it to you for (all but) free, but of course the monthly premium is higher. It has proven highly successful as evidenced by the plethora of dishes around the country these days.

Id say the number of dishes up might be higher than the number of paid subscriptions. I could be wrong, which again is regular enough.

It's a bit like a form of credit I suppose. Company forgoes the install charge, but makes it back over time on the subscription charge. That's how people seem to like to buy things these days.
I would guess if pre pay power were to charge the actual cost of installing the meter up front and have a slightly lower service charge, it wouldn't be half as popular. Especially since it's aimed at those with cash flow issues.

They would have to remove their free meter claim from the site anyway.

Also on the "How it works" page, it says they guarantee to match the electric ireland unit price and standing charge. And on the same page, a button to click to sign up. It could be easy enough to click away and not realise the extra cost there. That line might make people who do have difficulty comparing like with like at times, feel its no dearer.

Anyway, as you say, if people are prepared to pay extra for something they could manage themselves, then some company`s will facilitate them.

It will be a useful service for some no doubt. Time will tell them better than we can.

cast_iron

Bruthal wrote: »

Perhaps I read it wrong. Wouldnt be the first time. Depends how you interpret it I suppose.

Well I would say they would have to recoup install costs as part of the service charge. I didn't mean that the indefinite €25 bi-monthly charge would be purely for installation. Sorry if that came across.

Id say the number of dishes up might be higher than the number of paid subscriptions. I could be wrong, which again is regular enough.

I'd say you are dead right (as you are more often than not:))
I just used it as an example to show how their business model has changed.

It will be a useful service for some no doubt. Time will tell them better than we can.

Yes, it is an interesting service alright.

meercat

Claregirl wrote: »

- feck sake I caught him one morning with just his underwear in the dryer - he wanted them warmed up before he put em on:eek:.

cheers claregirl
made me laugh out loud
cherish the memories









and keep reminding him;)

.G.

Claregirl wrote: »

We got a shocker of a bill just before Christmas and went all gung-ho trying our best to get it down - just got Jan bill and we managed to save a whole euro

I've a good idea what's causing the wastage one teenager - daily showers for 15mins, cleans his room by filling the washing basket constantly eating (using oven) and filling the dishwasher - feck sake I caught him one morning with just his underwear in the dryer - he wanted them warmed up before he put em on:eek:.

I'd be embarrassed to tell people what our bill is it's crazy for three of us especially when we're all out of the house Mon - Fri

Thinking of changing to Eirtricity as they're showing up as cheapest on Bonkers.ie but not sure can the rate be increased during the 1 year contract?

Bloody kids:),mine have TV's,Playstations,dvd players running non stop,not as bad as showers and dryers but they are both pre teen,they'll drive me mental when they hit that age!

Pull the pull cord on the shower after 5 minutes,that'll get him out of it:D

I banned the use of a dryer in our house for years too,the cost isn't worth it,air dry all the way!

As an aside and not aimed at you but I've never understood the need for dishwashers. Most of them tell you to rinse stuff before you put it in which will in fact remove most of the dirt anyway so why not bloody wash them by hand and save some money,especially with water charges on the way!

A pet hate of mine.:)

ted1

superg wrote: »

Bloody kids:),mine have TV's,Playstations,dvd players running non stop,not as bad as showers and dryers but they are both pre teen,they'll drive me mental when they hit that age!

Pull the pull cord on the shower after 5 minutes,that'll get him out of it:D

I banned the use of a dryer in our house for years too,the cost isn't worth it,air dry all the way!

As an aside and not aimed at you but I've never understood the need for dishwashers. Most of them tell you to rinse stuff before you put it in which will in fact remove most of the dirt anyway so why not bloody wash them by hand and save some money,especially with water charges on the way!

A pet hate of mine.:)

The dishwasher is the only white good that is more efficient than doing it manually, it heats the exact amount of water required, no more no less. Asides from that there is very little going on in them.

They also use very little water.

Bruthal

ted1 wrote: »

The dishwasher is the only white good that is more efficient than doing it manually, it heats the exact amount of water required, no more no less. Asides from that there is very little going on in them.

They also use very little water.

Where did you get that one from?

ted1

Bruthal wrote: »

Where did you get that one from?

Here's one article http://www.gizmag.com/dishwashers-save-water-hand-washing/11410/

I know I've seen a better report in a journal some where but I'd have to dig it out

Edit: here's another article. http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

Bruthal

ted1 wrote: »

Here's one article http://www.gizmag.com/dishwashers-save-water-hand-washing/11410/

I know I've seen a better report in a journal some where but I'd have to dig it out

Edit: here's another article. http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

Its more about a dishwasher v washing by hand, rather than dishwasher v other appliances. It would be hard to compare refrigerating with a fridge v by hand for example.

ted1

Bruthal wrote: »

Its more about a dishwasher v washing by hand, rather than dishwasher v other appliances. It would be hard to compare refrigerating with a fridge v by hand for example.

What I said was more efficent than doing it manually, so manual way of cleaning dishes is in sink.
You can. Compare washing machine v hand washing etc.
Kettle v lighting a fire. Etc

Am I clearer now!

Bruthal

ted1 wrote: »

What I said was more efficent than doing it manually

What you said was that the dishwasher was the only appliance more efficient than doing the same job it does, manually.

ted1 wrote: »

The dishwasher is the only white good that is more efficient than doing it manually

The articles simply say washing dishes with the machine is more efficient than by hand. Doesnt seem to say its the only machine that can do so.

Id say hand washing of dishes could be done with a lot cooler water than a dishwasher would need, so a bit of hard work and the difference might not be all that apparent.

Am I clearer now!

It just seemed a strange claim. That`s all. Is the exclamation mark out of annoyance?

ted1

Bruthal wrote: »

What you said was that the dishwasher was the only appliance more efficient than doing the same job it does, manually.


The articles simply say washing dishes with the machine is more efficient than by hand. Doesnt seem to say its the only machine that can do so.

Id say hand washing of dishes could be done with a lot cooler water than a dishwasher would need, so a bit of hard work and the difference might not be all that apparent.




It just seemed a strange claim. That`s all. Is the exclamation mark out of annoyance?

Haha it's out of annoyance of the iPhone not sticking in the intended question mark.maybe my fingers are to fat.

Bruthal

ted1 wrote: »

Haha it's out of annoyance of the iPhone not sticking in the intended question mark.maybe my fingers are to fat.

I dont have a smartphone, probably just as well, the laptop would drive me demented at times.

.G.

ted1 wrote: »

Here's one article http://www.gizmag.com/dishwashers-save-water-hand-washing/11410/

I know I've seen a better report in a journal some where but I'd have to dig it out

Edit: here's another article. http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

Its all relative depending on a lot of things like how often you wash stuff,how much you need to wash,no mention of the need to pre wash stuff before you put it in and also assumes you use a running tap if hand washing.

You'll never convince me that boiling my kettle twice a day,half filling my sink and adding a squirt of washing up liquid is less efficient then having to buy one of the highest energy rated dishwashers,pre wash everything using running water,load the machine up,buy and put in dish wash tabs along with calgon or the like to preserve the machine,switch it on and use electricity and more water then,when its finished,empty the thing and put it all away.

But thats just me:D

Bruthal

superg wrote: »

Its all relative depending on a lot of things like how often you wash stuff,how much you need to wash,no mention of the need to pre wash stuff before you put it in and also assumes you use a running tap if hand washing.

You'll never convince me that boiling my kettle twice a day,half filling my sink and adding a squirt of washing up liquid is less efficient then having to buy one of the highest energy rated dishwashers,pre wash everything using running water,load the machine up,buy and put in dish wash tabs along with calgon or the like to preserve the machine,switch it on and use electricity and more water then,when its finished,empty the thing and put it all away.

But thats just me:D

Get them kids to lick the plates clean after their dinner superg, just need to dry them then:)

.G.

Bruthal wrote: »

Get them kids to lick the plates clean after their dinner superg, just need to dry them then:)

The oldest fella I reckon is about old enough to start doing housework.

I'll get him to do them:)

ted1

superg wrote: »

Its all relative depending on a lot of things like how often you wash stuff,how much you need to wash,no mention of the need to pre wash stuff before you put it in and also assumes you use a running tap if hand washing.

You'll never convince me that boiling my kettle twice a day,half filling my sink and adding a squirt of washing up liquid is less efficient then having to buy one of the highest energy rated dishwashers,pre wash everything using running water,load the machine up,buy and put in dish wash tabs along with calgon or the like to preserve the machine,switch it on and use electricity and more water then,when its finished,empty the thing and put it all away.

But thats just me:D

I always wondered about Calgon, how much it costs and how much longer your dishwasher lasts. Is it cheaper to replace it every odd year than keep pumping it full of Calgon.

Thunderbird2

I never pre rinse the dishes before putting them into the dishwasher Unless you count scraping the food off Just use good tablets and run a cleaner through it once a year .