Nitelink Fare Increase

Hart

Jumped on the midnight Nightlink last night and I was suprised to discover that the fare had gone up from €5.00 to €5.70. That a 14% increase!

Has fuel or drivers wages gone up that much recently? Dublin Bus kept that bloody quiet. Anybody else get caught by this?

Paulw

From the Dublin Bus website, it's still only €5 - http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/Fares/

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

slimjimmc

Paulw wrote: »

From the Dublin Bus website, it's still only €5 - http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/Fares/

Yet here it says €5 and (increased to?) €5.70 from 11th Jan 2013 - http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/Nitelink-Services/.

ScouseMouse

The government are reducing the subsidies to dublin bus so instead of cheaper fares, travellers are now having to pay a bigger share of the fare.

Hence you see these increases coming through.

Corruptedmorals

There is a lovely corresponding decrease in frequency, quite a few routes down to 1 hour intervals- including some of the furthest ones- Leixlip, Celbridge/Maynooth, Blanchardstown, Lucan and Tallaght.:mad:

ScouseMouse

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

There is a lovely corresponding decrease in frequency, quite a few routes down to 1 hour intervals- including some of the furthest ones- Leixlip, Celbridge/Maynooth, Blanchardstown, Lucan and Tallaght.:mad:

I work at a bus terminus. The buses are empty, passengers not travelling and accordingly buses are not required as much.

Dublin Bus are facing into this while subsidies are being cut back.

What this means is: use it or lose it. Excess buses and drivers will get the chop. If a service is unviable it gets cut. End if story.

Management do it or Leo sacks them. The gravy train is over. Hand outs and bail outs are a thing of the past.

Pity these policies were not brought in before now. May have affected the banks and we wouldnt be in the mess we are in.

devnull

Subsidy per vehicle is actually up. Whilst subsidy has been cut back by a decent percentage, the fleet has been cut back by a bigger one so therefore the subsidy has been cut argument does not stack up.

For example, between the end of 2007 and 2012, Dublin Bus cut their fleet by 19.5%, but the subsidy was reduced by a smaller percentage in the same time-frame so this in real terms is an increase.

I do agree that the other factors have really effected Dublin Bus and the economic climate has not helped the company, that is certainly the case. However the argument that subsidy is much less has no factual basis.

By the way, not every travels terminus to terminus so judging a route by the loads towards the end of the route is not always the best. The routes I used to travel on would be empty for the first half a dozen stops almost and the same for the last, but would be very busy in-between.

LXFlyer

Get yourself a LEAP card.

With LEAP the fare remains at €5.

As I've posted before cash fares are being increased at a higher rate to encourage people to switch to LEAP.

thomasj

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

There is a lovely corresponding decrease in frequency, quite a few routes down to 1 hour intervals- including some of the furthest ones- Leixlip, Celbridge/Maynooth, Blanchardstown, Lucan and Tallaght.:mad:

2 routes keep the 3.30 departures - the 39N and the 67N. Everything else goes hourly or even in some cases every 2 hours.

Corruptedmorals

Ah I know the reasoning and I don't blame them. Just having a vent that it sucks is all.

TheRealPONeil

superscouse wrote: »

The government are reducing the subsidies to dublin bus so instead of cheaper fares, travellers are now having to pay a bigger share of the fare.

Hence you see these increases coming through.

The government have reduced the subsidies to local authorities in an effort to pay bond holders, therefore you have a "household charge" - and Phil Hogan thanks you for putting €113.35 million back into the funding of local services in Ireland !!

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Get yourself a LEAP card.

With LEAP the fare remains at €5.

As I've posted before cash fares are being increased at a higher rate to encourage people to switch to LEAP.

BUT...and it's a VERY big BUT....you do not get to give out ****e about how disgraceful it all is etc etc....

I experience this every day as I reveal to people that they could be paying LESS than they were last year if they switched to Leapcard.....(€2.10 vs €2.15 and €2.45 vs €2.65)

Not havin any of it,thank you very much...I prefer to be the wounded soldier who's being financially raped by big-bad Dublin Bus/Government etc etc etc....

Somewhere along the line Leapcard missed a trick.....:rolleyes:

[Jackass]

€5.70, ffs.

It is only marginally cheaper than getting a taxi for me, which I can get anywhere in the city, any time, and less waiting and no (other) drunk muppets...

Is any public service capable of delivering good value, or our we destined to fund these over employed, loss making monopolies stupid management forever?

Cookie_Monster

The subsidy does not cover nitelinks, never has and people on this boards bang on and on and on about it, so pure pricing hiking for the sake of it.

LXFlyer

[Jackass] wrote: »

€5.70, ffs.

It is only marginally cheaper than getting a taxi for me, which I can get anywhere in the city, any time, and less waiting and no (other) drunk muppets...

Is any public service capable of delivering good value, or our we destined to fund these over employed, loss making monopolies stupid management forever?

Again, why "FFS"?

Get a LEAP card!!! Hey presto. No fare increase.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The subsidy does not cover nitelinks, never has and people on this boards bang on and on and on about it, so pure pricing hiking for the sake of it.

The Nitelinks are part of the PSO contract with the NTA.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

The Nitelinks are part of the PSO contract with the NTA.

so what of people saying for years its not then? when did that change?

JeffK88

Nightrider (126N) to Newbridge has gone up from 10euro to 11 euro.

Tazz T

Cheaper for me to share an overpriced taxi. Just goes to show how inefficient Dublin bus is.

foggy_lad

JeffK88 wrote: »

Nightrider (126N) to Newbridge has gone up from 10euro to 11 euro.

JJ Kavanaghs do Naas for €10 afaik last bus is at 12.55 from the Ulster bank on Georges Quay.

AlekSmart

Tazz T wrote: »

Cheaper for me to share an overpriced taxi. Just goes to show how inefficient Dublin bus is.

Indeed,given that both entities are price-regulated by the same National Transport Authority,I be looking in a different direction for the inefficiency...;)

There are many different measures of efficiency,but Dublin Bus,has met or exceeded industry norms in virtually all of the many Government ordered Studies,Reviews,Reports and assorted other consultancy led elements....

That said,I believe that Dublin Bus has failed to develop and improve NiteLink to cope with the Changing City.

As an example,we see the Taxi industry adopting technology such as Hail-O which will provide definite improvements for both Taxi Drivers and Customers alike.

Nitelink is a decade past its review date,and this latest "adjustment" is not exactly geared towards increasing it's customer appeal.

ScouseMouse

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The subsidy does not cover nitelinks, never has and people on this boards bang on and on and on about it, so pure pricing hiking for the sake of it.

Does it not? So what does it actually cover?

py2006

They are still selling the cards in the newsagents on the corner for €5 but on the bus themselves for €5.70. I guess once they run out they will go up.

patrickbrophy18

I haven't gone into town anywhere near as often as I used to for nights out thanks to the previous set of cut backs. I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of like-minded people who have given up on town due to the hassle involved in getting back home. At the same time, the Department of Transport are becoming more stringent on people who drink and drive. Only in Ireland would this make sense.:eek:

Inevitably, this will make it less attractive to go to town for a night out which will more than likely have a negative impact on the amount of people going to nightclubs. It is this that will (indirectly) lead to more unemployment within the nightclub industry. Having said that, the only nightclub in the county of Dublin itself which provides its own bus service is The Wright Venue in Swords. Perhaps, nightclubs in town (e.g. Boomerangs, Q-Bar) and elsewhere (e.g. Club 92 Leopardstown, Eclectic Garden Bray) could do the same. This should (in theory), reverse the fall in revenue to the nightclub industry. Just a bit of food for thought!:D

schemingbohemia

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I haven't gone into town anywhere near as often as I used to for nights out thanks to the previous set of cut backs. I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of like-minded people who have given up on town due to the hassle involved in getting back home. At the same time, the Department of Transport are becoming more stringent on people who drink and drive. Only in Ireland would this make sense.:eek:

Inevitably, this will make it less attractive to go to town for a night out which will more than likely have a negative impact on the amount of people going to nightclubs. It is this that will (indirectly) lead to more unemployment within the nightclub industry. Having said that, the only nightclub in the county of Dublin itself which provides its own bus service is The Wright Venue in Swords. Perhaps, nightclubs in town (e.g. Boomerangs, Q-Bar) and elsewhere (e.g. Club 92 Leopardstown, Eclectic Garden Bray) could do the same. This should (in theory), reverse the fall in revenue to the nightclub industry. Just a bit of food for thought!:D

There are nitelinks to dalkey at midnight, 2 & 4 am so there is a service home for you, don't see how you can blame cutbacks for your lack of socialising in the city centre.

Annual bus passes work on the nitelink too another factor for people considering getting one.

patrickbrophy18

schemingbohemia wrote: »

There are nitelinks to dalkey at midnight, 2 & 4 am so there is a service home for you, don't see how you can blame cutbacks for your lack of socialising in the city centre.

I'm aware of this. However, the 46N used to serve Dalkey every 30 minutes with decent loadings per journey past Dun Laoghaire. Midnight is a bit premature to be getting home from a night out considering the fact most clubs stay open until 2:30 or 3:00. In other words, a lot of clubbers are only starting their nights out at midnight. Moreover, 2 and 4 AM are not exactly convenient given that the patronage would have to cut their night short to make the earlier departure while waiting the guts of an hour for the later departure.

While I am aware that many fast food joints are open for this hour, I often find them incredibly seedy with the frequent fights which break out in their vicinity. It isn't exactly a safe way to kill time while waiting for the last bus other than freezing my socks off outside. Overall, this makes for an extremely depressing end of the night. So, to cut a long story short, I don't feel like socialising in town if this is how daunting the end of the night will be.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Annual bus passes work on the nitelink too another factor for people considering getting one.

This only holds true if one makes enough bus journey's to justify buying an annual bus pass. For example, if someone is working full-time all year around and their only means of getting to work is by bus then, it would make sense.

n97 mini

66N service now hourly. As a regular user this always had decent loadings so I'm puzzled why it's being cut.

mydiscworld

n97 mini wrote: »

66N service now hourly. As a regular user this always had decent loadings so I'm puzzled why it's being cut.

Same with 46N

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056860815

schemingbohemia

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I'm aware of this. However, the 46N used to serve Dalkey every 30 minutes with decent loadings per journey past Dun Laoghaire. Midnight is a bit premature to be getting home from a night out considering the fact most clubs stay open until 2:30 or 3:00. In other words, a lot of clubbers are only starting their nights out at midnight. Moreover, 2 and 4 AM are not exactly convenient given that the patronage would have to cut their night short to make the earlier departure while waiting the guts of an hour for the later departure.

While I am aware that many fast food joints are open for this hour, I often find them incredibly seedy with the frequent fights which break out in their vicinity. It isn't exactly a safe way to kill time while waiting for the last bus other than freezing my socks off outside. Overall, this makes for an extremely depressing end of the night. So, to cut a long story short, I don't feel like socialising in town if this is how daunting the end of the night will be.



This only holds true if one makes enough bus journey's to justify buying an annual bus pass. For example, if someone is working full-time all year around and their only means of getting to work is by bus then, it would make sense.

Well I don't know when the last time you used the 7N was or 46N, but I tend to either get the midnight or 2am service to Dalkey and neither has had huge numbers on board, generally between 10-20, I've only taken the 4am once and that was late November and that was fairly full, so much so that I had to go upstairs where the locked smokers were, not much fun.

My point about the annual pass was just to raise awareness of the fact that it works on Nitelink and the Airport bus, if people were uncertain about the value of it, for them, it might just swing it for them if they knew they were getting the added value of those services that they might use occasionally.

LoonyLovegood

The part that annoys me about the revised timetables is that there's several that weren't revised, but DB said nothing about those. I was in a state of shock thinking my beloved 70N was gone, and that'd be the end of my nights out. Took me asking via facebook before they'd give me an answer.

LXFlyer

The notice on the website does say (and has done since Friday):

All other nitelink timetables not listed above remain unchanged.

thomasj

mydiscworld wrote: »

Same with 46N

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056860815

39N goes mostly hourly as well but it also retains the 3.30 service.

LoonyLovegood

lxflyer wrote: »

The notice on the website does say (and has done since Friday):

They changed it on Friday evening, the original notice just said "Please find details of the revised timetables below".

road_high

CTYIgirl wrote: »

The part that annoys me about the revised timetables is that there's several that weren't revised, but DB said nothing about those. I was in a state of shock thinking my beloved 70N was gone, and that'd be the end of my nights out. Took me asking via facebook before they'd give me an answer.

I used live in Littlepace and the times for that used really bug me. More oftenm than not used get the 39N and wlk the rest of the way. 2.00 am and 4.00am just when all late bars and clubs close there was nothing. Glad I don't live there anymore!

howiya

I think they are looking to kill the demand for nightlink by reducing the frequency of services and increasing the price.

There is a note on the new timetable stating that"Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates".

If I miss the 2am bus do Dublin Bus expect me and others to stand out in the cold in the hope that if another x amount of potential passengers crowd around the bus stop that a bus will magically appear?

AlekSmart

howiya wrote: »

I think they are looking to kill the demand for nightlink by reducing the frequency of services and increasing the price.

There is a note on the new timetable stating that"Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates".

If I miss the 2am bus do Dublin Bus expect me and others to stand out in the cold in the hope that if another x amount of potential passengers crowd around the bus stop that a bus will magically appear?

A vey sad situation indeed.

There is,in my opinion,currently enough latent demand for a 24 hr service on at least six BAC Trunk Routes.

I would suggest that an hourly service Mon-Thurs in each direction would in fact generate new business as well as providing a new element to PSO services.

Charging a Flat Fare of €2.80 after 23.30 the night services could continue to use the Nitelink Triangle of D'olier/College/Westmoreland Streets to allow for transfers between routes.

The City Centre is quite well structured for this during Off-Peak (Taxi Drivers permitting)

I would,however,expect significant opposition from the Taxi fraternity,as they would see this as BAC "Stealing" their business in much the same fashion as they "Steal" business from Aircoach.

I really do believe that a lobby of the NTA is now required,if only in an attempt to allow Dublin City Centre regain the look and feel of a Capital City Centre after dark.

bk

AlekSmart I agree completely and make so it picks up people heading into town too.

I'd suggest a trial on the 16 (Airport) route would be a great starting place.

Well even better an extended 16N route that also went out to Swords.

And BTW combine this with allowing night clubs to open till 8am like most other European cities, plus late night wine cafe bars. I honestly believe it would go a long way to solving our binge drinking culture and would greatly help the economy of the city.

McSheez

bk wrote: »

And BTW combine this with allowing night clubs to open till 8am like most other European cities, plus late night wine cafe bars. I honestly believe it would go a long way to solving our binge drinking culture and would greatly help the economy of the city.

This is probably best left to another thread but do you not think giving people the facility to drink well into the morning would make the problem worse? I can only speak for my friends who are mostly mid twenties but I reckon we'd be moudling up bars for 9 or 10 hours at that rate.

I do agree with you guys on the 24h service, the fact that a 21st century, European capital city's public transport effectively ends by 12 is a bit of a joke. The 16 would seem like a good place to start, and another going west - east maybe. Don't see why it's never been tried, although going by the nightlink it'd be a fairly unpleasant place to be if it was regular fare.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

A vey sad situation indeed.

There is,in my opinion,currently enough latent demand for a 24 hr service on at least six BAC Trunk Routes.

I would suggest that an hourly service Mon-Thurs in each direction would in fact generate new business as well as providing a new element to PSO services.

Charging a Flat Fare of €2.80 after 23.30 the night services could continue to use the Nitelink Triangle of D'olier/College/Westmoreland Streets to allow for transfers between routes.

The City Centre is quite well structured for this during Off-Peak (Taxi Drivers permitting)

I would,however,expect significant opposition from the Taxi fraternity,as they would see this as BAC "Stealing" their business in much the same fashion as they "Steal" business from Aircoach.

I really do believe that a lobby of the NTA is now required,if only in an attempt to allow Dublin City Centre regain the look and feel of a Capital City Centre after dark.

The NTA would rather have Expressway buses pulling off their main route into Dublin to use a fictional and useless "transport Hub" at the Red Cow Luas Stop than sort out real issues with transport in Ireland! Even their journey planner does not include many routes because of minor issues with licencing so it too is useless like most everything done or planned by this Quango!

bk

McSheez wrote: »

This is probably best left to another thread but do you not think giving people the facility to drink well into the morning would make the problem worse? I can only speak for my friends who are mostly mid twenties but I reckon we'd be moudling up bars for 9 or 10 hours at that rate.

No that isn't my experience anywhere else in Europe.

I frequently party in other countries in Europe with late night opening. In my experience, people don't even head out until 11 or 12 and then they drink much more slowly and do far more dancing as they know there is no rush.

Many clubs even have alternative activities like cinemas, coffee areas, food, couches for people to lounge on and chat.

Also people tend to leave at a more staggered pace, rather then everyone being tossed out on the streets in the same time, ending up with fights outside Macdonalds.

In my experience, in countries with this set up, I find the night life to be far more pleasant and calm with few if any agro, fights or violently drunk people.

Sure if it was introduced here initially people would go mad, but pretty quickly people would get tired of it and it would normalise to a more European style drinking/late night culture IMO.

Isn't it at least worth trying for two years? I don't think it could be much worse then what we currently have.

Certainly the reduction in off license times has not worked and has had the opposite effect.

McSheez

Too true about the off licenses, that was predicted but of course ignored too. I'm not sure if we're quite the same as other cities but maybe you're right and we would get used to it and adapt and chill out.
It would be nice to go out at your own pace and of course get home at your own pace and not rely on fecking taxis. (when you can afford it, walked and hour and half home freezing my nuts off last night) If only our tranport wasn't so backwards.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

AlekSmart I agree completely and make so it picks up people heading into town too.

I'd suggest a trial on the 16 (Airport) route would be a great starting place.

Well even better an extended 16N route that also went out to Swords.

And BTW combine this with allowing night clubs to open till 8am like most other European cities, plus late night wine cafe bars. I honestly believe it would go a long way to solving our binge drinking culture and would greatly help the economy of the city.

Just to clarify bk,that's exactly what I suggest,a FULL 24 hour stage-carriage service,the only off-standard element being the "Flat" fare of €2.80.

My belief is that revenue lost from the the reduction from €5.70 to €2.80 would be recouped and more by the new business coming from inbound journeys and "ordinary" use.

It really HAS to be remembered that Nitelink as a concept had a very rapid gestation and birth over 20 years ago as a hasty response to a series of increasingly serious public order incidents in the City Centre.

It was recognized that the lack of Taxis (at that time) added to no alternative Public Transport being available was a major contributory factor.

Nitelink was always intended as a means of emptying the relatively small City Centre and getting large numbers out of it rapidly.

It was excellent at this task,and could still be,however Dublin and it's culture has not remained static,and as a result Nitelink is now somewhat superfluous in its current guise.

I remain at a loss as to why the NTA,or some enterprising manager in BAC,has not pushed further with the 24 hour service,particularly as most of the HR and IR issues have been agreed on now for some years.

CatFromHue

I forgot that the Nitelinks were every hour now (I get the 7N) and just missed the 1am one on Friday night.

If I'd the money I'd have gotten a taxi (about 20euro) but I didn't so I went a got a burger and walked to Ballsbridge (the 7N picks up there) as I didn't want to hang around on D'Olier Street for 45mins.

I do wonder how this will play out long term!

AlekSmart

CatFromHue wrote: »

I forgot that the Nitelinks were every hour now (I get the 7N) and just missed the 1am one on Friday night.

If I'd the money I'd have gotten a taxi (about 20euro) but I didn't so I went a got a burger and walked to Ballsbridge (the 7N picks up there) as I didn't want to hang around on D'Olier Street for 45mins.

I do wonder how this will play out long term!

Welcome to Dublin,a major EU Capital City....:(

As to how it plays out......not too much to worry about there.

Extinction

CatFromHue

It did appear that the 2am bus on Friday had about the same amount of people on it as the 1am bus a few weeks ago.

carlmango11

The nightlink would have massive numbers if the price wasn't outrageous. The only time I'd ever get it is if I'm alone. Otherwise a taxi is worth the extra few euro.

If they made the price maybe €2 or even €3 euro the numbers would demand, which would increase frequency, which would further increase demand. There's so many people who'd love to get a competitively priced bus sevice rather than taxis.

In every other EU city there are night buses with daytime prices which people can get on weekends and sometimes weekdays. Dublin has more than enough demand to make this viable and it's insane that Dublin Bus can be so shortsighted. Can they not see the thousands of people getting expensive taxis every night?

Also I agree with bks post about extending nightclub opening times and providing other activities. I think these silly laws about clubs closing at the same time and alcohol sales having a curfew are ridiculous. Trying to force adults into only drinking when the Government allows doesn't work.

Lifelike

The lack of a proper nightbus service has been one of Dublin's big transport problems for years, however unlike the rest of them this can be solved so easily and cheaply. The recent further cutbacks to the nitelink have highlighted this problem once again. It's high time that someone in the NTA steps and sorts out this mess out once and for all, as Dublin Bus have demonstrated over the years that they have no will to even trial a service. It's not even just going out that's at issue here - many people work late shifts, arrive in on late flights etc.

carlmango11 wrote: »

The nightlink would have massive numbers if the price wasn't outrageous. The only time I'd ever get it is if I'm alone. Otherwise a taxi is worth the extra few euro.

If they made the price maybe €2 or even €3 euro the numbers would demand, which would increase frequency, which would further increase demand. There's so many people who'd love to get a competitively priced bus sevice rather than taxis.

In every other EU city there are night buses with daytime prices which people can get on weekends and sometimes weekdays. Dublin has more than enough demand to make this viable and it's insane that Dublin Bus can be so shortsighted. Can they not see the thousands of people getting expensive taxis every night?

Also I agree with bks post about extending nightclub opening times and providing other activities. I think these silly laws about clubs closing at the same time and alcohol sales having a curfew are ridiculous. Trying to force adults into only drinking when the Government allows doesn't work.

They also need to end this nonsense of rambler/monthly tickets not being accepted on the nitelink. Regular tickets are accepted on nightbuses in London and most other European capitals, so why not Dublin? I'm sick of paying an extra €5 for the nitelink on top of my rambler ticket, which I think I pay enough for already.

patrickmooney

I was caught out by these changes. Along with many others we waited for the 1:30am nitelink on Friday. Arrived, but kept the doors closed until 1:50am. Several folk gave up. It was sub-zero temps and westmoreland st was getting messy. Taxi's were doing well. By the time the 2am service took over, my bus only carried about 10 of us as many took cabs.

Firstly not many know about the time changes. Folk would have turned up for the 2:30 service, not a 2am service. Then with the price increase, it's cheaper to get a taxi with two people and saver then wait around the city.

It's a mess of a service.