Using someone elses TCD card to get into library?

jos360

Can anyone tell me how they check student cards going into the library? I'm not a TCD student but I'm looking to use the overnight library, and I could borrow a friends card (but we don't look very alike). Would I get away with it?

(I've tried making an application to study there but they don't let undergrads of other colleges in)

Thanks

ethernet

There was a thread here a few months back about someone getting fined €50 (I think) for lending their student card to someone for accessing services like this. It might not be worth the hassle to be honest.

Security has stepped up with all the theft going on in the libraries.

jos360

Thanks for the reply. My friend has being fined a few times for the same thing with the gym. But do they just have a turnstlye that you scan the card at or do you go up to a desk and show them the card?

Hamiltonion

Wouldnt advise it, I am a student but borrowed a mates card for gym one day as I'd lost mine and he got a E25 fine (which I paid) and a meeting with junior dean to get his card back (which I felt pretty crummy about)

You think they're not paying much attention but they are, happened quite a few other chancers too

Hamiltonion

If you really need somewhere to study the Ham PC rooms are open 24hrs, you may wait for someone to open the door though and security do occasionally come checking cards - if you plea you forgot it and have an essay due or something they might let you away with it if you're clearly studying

jos360

Ah ok, thanks guys.
Is there a common area or anything like it I could study in (even if it's noisy) thats open overnight?

Hamiltonion

No nowhere like that - like I said chance the hamilton - as a non student worst they can do is ask you to leave, you'll be safe up till 10pm and after that YMMV

Be aware that the door is swipe access only so don't go for a smoke and leave all your stuff inside

jos360

Oh, so if I could get a TCD card I could just swipe in and nobody would check to see the pic on the card matches my face? Thanks

Hamiltonion

No man as I've said above security WILL BE IN CHECKING CARDS. So don't bring one or you'll get your mate in hot water

jos360

Thanks for that, now I just have to find it

Unshelved

This is against Library rules and your friend could end up really regretting letting you use his card.

If you are caught he will be subject to a fine of €25 to €50 and could also be excluded from the Library for a period of 1 to 4 weeks.

Places are scarce in the 24 Hour Reading Room so it reserved for TCD Students only.

I have advised Security Staff of your post - all ID cards will be checked very closely this evening.

Grimebox

24 hour library is a great spot for laptops. You can just wait by the door for students to go in and claim you lost your card or whatever and follow them in. Then confidently pack up a laptop and walk right out

jos360

Unshelved wrote: »

Places are scarce in the 24 Hour Reading Room so it reserved for TCD Students only.

I have advised Security Staff of your post - all ID cards will be checked very closely this evening.

Are you actually serious?...

jos360

Grimebox wrote: »

24 hour library is a great spot for laptops. You can just wait by the door for students to go in and claim you lost your card or whatever and follow them in. Then confidently pack up a laptop and walk right out

Not quite the reason, I just have an end of semester exam on Monday that has a 1 in 3 fail rate

Ravelleman

To be honest, I would have to agree with unshelved. The 24 hour study space isn't something to be taken for granted. The places are extremly limited and it's often full. It took a lot of negotiation and sacrifice by various parties to get more flexible opening hours as well so it really should be for Trinity students only. The services of most libraries are reserved for their members, lest we forget.

Larianne

jos360 wrote: »

Ah ok, thanks guys.
Is there a common area or anything like it I could study in (even if it's noisy) thats open overnight?

Go to the airport or the McDonalds on Grafton Street. That's open 24 hours.

jos360

Ravelleman wrote: »

To be honest, I would have to agree with unshelved. The 24 hour study space isn't something to be taken for granted. The places are extremly limited and it's often full. It took a lot of negotiation and sacrifice by various parties to get more flexible opening hours as well so it really should be for Trinity students only. The services of most libraries are reserved for their members, lest we forget.

TCD have just done any christmas exams they had so I find it hard to believe that there would be people looking to study the same time I am (2am to 6am).

jos360

Larianne wrote: »

Go to the airport or the McDonalds on Grafton Street. That's open 24 hours.

I don't have any way of getting to the airport unfortunately and the McDonalds is full of rowdy drunk people at 2am. Thanks for the thought none the less.

Unshelved

jos360 wrote: »

Are you actually serious?...

I'm afraid so. You will need to make alternative arrangements.

ViveLaVie

Ravelleman wrote: »

To be honest, I would have to agree with unshelved. The 24 hour study space isn't something to be abused. The places are extremly limited and it's often full. It took a lot of negotiation and sacrifice by various parties to get more flexible opening hours as well so it really should be for Trinity students only. The services of most libraries are reserved for their members, lest we forget.

It's fairly empty at night though to be fair. I was often one of only a handful of people in there studying after eleven or twelve.

jos360

Unshelved wrote: »

I'm afraid so. You will need to make alternative arrangements.

Wow, if you work for TCD I understand. But if you're a student, the fact you actually reported it to security worries me...

If you just told me it would be full, and that I would be taking someone else's seat, I wouldn't have gone. You can understand how I would have thought a library would be quiet at 2 am. The immature part of me want's to get a friends card - who looks very like me - and go anyway, just to upset you

The Black Oil

From his/her past postings on here I think Unshelved works in TCD.

Cathalog

jos360 wrote: »

Wow, if you work for TCD I understand. But if you're a student, the fact you actually reported it to security worries me...

If you just told me it would be full, and that I would be taking someone else's seat, I wouldn't have gone. You can understand how I would have thought a library would be quiet at 2 am. The immature part of me want's to get a friends card - who looks very like me - and go anyway, just to upset you

A quick look at this person's recent posts suggests that s/he's a staff member.

Cavehill Red

jos360 wrote: »

Wow, if you work for TCD I understand. But if you're a student, the fact you actually reported it to security worries me...

If you just told me it would be full, and that I would be taking someone else's seat, I wouldn't have gone. You can understand how I would have thought a library would be quiet at 2 am. The immature part of me want's to get a friends card - who looks very like me - and go anyway, just to upset you

You don't pay fees to TCD, you have no right to use their facilities. In an ideal world, you'll get caught and prosecuted for tresspass.

Lawliet

jos360 wrote: »

Wow, if you work for TCD I understand. But if you're a student, the fact you actually reported it to security worries me...

If you just told me it would be full, and that I would be taking someone else's seat, I wouldn't have gone. You can understand how I would have thought a library would be quiet at 2 am. The immature part of me want's to get a friends card - who looks very like me - and go anyway, just to upset you

Pretty sure Unshelved works in the library. It's a bit naive to think that TCD staff wouldn't keep on eye on this forum, or would turn a blind eye to anyone trying to break the rules.

The fact that place might be empty isn't the point, you have no right to be there at any time and you're just going to get your friends in trouble.

jos360

Sorry, I didn't realise he/she worked there. I understand I don't pay fees, but my presence in a library isn't going to cost the college anything. Odd's are there'll probably be empty seats there tonight while I try study next door to a party. But hey, once nobody breaks a sacred rule, I mean just try imagine the repercussions of an RCSI student in a TCD library for a few hours...

Edit: Not directed at you Unshelved, I understand you obviously have rules to follow if you work there.

jos360

Lawliet wrote: »

Pretty sure Unshelved works in the library. It's a bit naive to think that TCD staff wouldn't keep on eye on this forum, or would turn a blind eye to anyone trying to break the rules.

My college doesn't have a category, I never use boards for college related matters so please forgive my inexperience.

Cavehill Red

jos360 wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't realise he/she worked there. I understand I don't pay fees, but my presence in a library isn't going to cost the college anything. Odd's are there'll probably be empty seats there tonight while I try study next door to a party. But hey, once nobody breaks a sacred rule, I mean just try imagine the repercussions of an RCSI student in a TCD library for a few hours...

I don't pay any fees to the RCSI, but why am I not allowed to attend your classes? There's likely extra seats in the lecture hall after all.

jos360

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I don't pay any fees to the RCSI, but why am I not allowed to attend your classes? There's likely extra seats in the lecture hall after all.

You're not technically allowed, but I've brought people to lectures on quite a few occasions. I'm not asking to be 'technically' allowed in, but just trying to point out that it wouldn't harm anyone, in the same way no harm was caused by my friends being in otherwise empty seats of my lectures..

On the fee's thing, (forgive me if you're a postgrad/repeat etc.) but the state most likely pays the majority of your fees.

Cavehill Red

I'm not a student. I just object to those attending TCD and paying fees of up to 20,000 euro per year to do so having their facilities abused by others. Effectively you're stealing. I don't know why you think people would endorse that attitude. You've clearly rationalised it to yourself as 'no harm done' and hence won't listen to reason that you have no right to be in TCD, and no right to use their facilities which others pay for, and therefore should not go there and should find some other location to do your work, perhaps a location provided by your own educational establishment.

jos360

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm not a student. I just object to those attending TCD and paying fees of up to 20,000 euro per year to do so having their facilities abused by others. Effectively you're stealing. I don't know why you think people would endorse that attitude. You've clearly rationalised it to yourself as 'no harm done' and hence won't listen to reason that you have no right to be in TCD, and no right to use their facilities which others pay for, and therefore should not go there and should find some other location to do your work, perhaps a location provided by your own educational establishment.

The majority of TCD students pay about 2000 of their 9000 euro fee per year, the government pay the rest. (On a side note, I pay tax... but I'm not going to make that argument, it's stupid). You use the word 'abused' to make it sound like I intend on defacing desks and breaking computers. I just want to quietly study in an otherwise empty spot. You're right, I have no right to be in TCD, I am not a student. I have a location to work in, but it dosen't open overnight as I'm in a smaller college.

Maybe I can explain my point a little better with an analogy. Say you have half a sandwich left over, but you're full, you aren't going to eat the rest. If I was hungry, and asked you for it, would you give it to me? I haven't paid for it, I have no 'right' to it, but it's otherwise going to waste, since nobody else is going to eat it.

I understand that there's more to it than a 'do no harm' scenario, and hence I can understand a member of TCD staff objecting. But really, a student/uninvolved party who goes out of their way to object to an issue that will have no effect on them?

Cavehill Red

I'm not really interested in any of your rationalisations. You are not a student of the college and have no right whatsoever to use facilities provided for their use, no matter what harm you do or don't think you'd be doing.
You haven't asked TCD if you can use their facilities, so your sandwich analogy is just so much more self-justification. If you require overnight studying facilities, you should do what TCD students did and lobby your own college authorities for them.

Anita Blow

It's very likely you'd get caught. You have to be on campus before it officially closes, so you can't turn up at 2am because they won't let you in. Also, any time I have been on campus after closing I have always been asked for my ID by the guards at the campus exits, so if you're not caught in the library, you'll be caught leaving and you're friend will get in a lot of trouble.

I think with the risk involved, it'd be unfair to your friend as they would be the one who has to answer to the Junior Dean and pay the fine.

jos360

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm not really interested in any of your rationalisations. You are not a student of the college and have no right whatsoever to use facilities provided for their use, no matter what harm you do or don't think you'd be doing.
You haven't asked TCD if you can use their facilities, so your sandwich analogy is just so much more self-justification. If you require overnight studying facilities, you should do what TCD students did and lobby your own college authorities for them.

Well, I guess it's a question of how we balance theoretical wrongdoing against the practical repercussions. We're not going to agree on it, so let's not fall into this trap of getting angry at somebody over the internet. Happens too often these days.

Anita Blow wrote: »

It's very likely you'd get caught. You have to be on campus before it officially closes, so you can't turn up at 2am because they won't let you in. Also, any time I have been on campus after closing I have always been asked for my ID by the guards at the campus exits, so if you're not caught in the library, you'll be caught leaving and you're friend will get in a lot of trouble.

I think with the risk involved, it'd be unfair to your friend as they would be the one who has to answer to the Junior Dean and pay the fine.

I've been in and out of the TCD campus a few times in the middle of the night. I don't mean it in an offensive sense, but their campus security seems not to watch all the entrances and with ten minutes of walking around the building, you generally find one. I know what happens when someone is caught, my friend (who I would be getting the card off) has had his and his room mates confiscated a few times.

Cavehill Red

I'm not angry at you. I'm just suggesting you rethink what you're contemplating doing, because it's wrong. There have been many thefts from libraries and study areas in TCD, and it has become such a concern that it is not beyond possibility that if you were caught in such an area by security they may wish to have you prosecuted on the basis that you may have been casing the place to steal.

jos360

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm not angry at you. I'm just suggesting you rethink what you're contemplating doing, because it's wrong. There have been many thefts from libraries and study areas in TCD, and it has become such a concern that it is not beyond possibility that if you were caught in such an area by security they may wish to have you prosecuted on the basis that you may have been casing the place to steal.

At this stage I've found an alternative Who would have thought that this would be the hardest part of an all-nighter. Thanks for your concern.

Cavehill Red

Delighted to hear you got sorted. Good luck with your studies.

lucernarian

Anita Blow wrote: »

It's very likely you'd get caught. You have to be on campus before it officially closes, so you can't turn up at 2am because they won't let you in. Also, any time I have been on campus after closing I have always been asked for my ID by the guards at the campus exits, so if you're not caught in the library, you'll be caught leaving and you're friend will get in a lot of trouble.

I think with the risk involved, it'd be unfair to your friend as they would be the one who has to answer to the Junior Dean and pay the fine.

In the numerous times I'd leave TCD after 12 midnight, not once was I ever asked for my ID card. And what right would they have, if you were seeking to leave the grounds without any trouble or suspicious activity? I can't believe the security would actually try to stop you leaving if you had no ID card. Imagine what the gardaí would say when they arrive, upon seeing someone was held against their will for no other reason than not having a student ID card... The issue of tresspass doesn't come into it if they entered TCD before midnight via one of the open gates.

Cavehill Red

It would be trespass to enter a building though. Also, I'm not sure you're right that it wouldn't be trespass just to be on the grounds.

lucernarian

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It would be trespass to enter a building though. Also, I'm not sure you're right that it wouldn't be trespass just to be on the grounds.

Where there's no signage whatsoever or direction to the effect that the campus grounds close at midnight? On top of the fact that one can enter the campus unchallenged right up to midnight? Anyway here's some law pertaining to recreational users of property. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/act/pub/0010/print.html But this is veering off topic. Trying to enter the likes of the 24 hour study room with its swipe card access would be an entirely different matter.

Victor

jos360 wrote: »

my presence in a library isn't going to cost the college anything.

Actually it does. Having to deal with trespassers puts an additional burden on college security and it means having more staff than otherwise would be necessary.

Jonathan

The OP has found a legal alternative to borrowing a TCD student card, so I'm going to lock this thread.