If Britain do leave the EU, would you move to the UK?

LindowMan

djpbarry wrote: »

You sure about that? What percentage of EU exports go to the UK? What percentage of UK exports go to the EU?

The EU sells more to Britain than Britain sells to the EU. As I've mentioned, the UK has a trade DEFICIT with the EU, which was over £50 billion in 2011 (Britain is, however, in a trade surplus with the rest of the world). So when it comes to selling goods and services, the EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU.

Not only that, but the EU is no longer the UK’s main export market, according to research published by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR):

The three months to May 2012 registered a sea-change in British trade, with non-EU exports of goods exceeding those to the union by 1.5 per cent – the first time they have done so for a whole quarter since the early 1970s, according to CEBR.

This reordering from the same three months in 2011, when EU members bought 19 per cent more UK exports than non-members, comes from a 7.3 per cent FALL in exports to the EU and a 13.2 per cent RISE in goods going elsewhere.

CEBR believes these figures could in fact overstate EU countries’ importance, since indirect port transfers distort the numbers (known as the Rotterdam Effect, this exagerrates the number of British goods going to the EU).

http://disqus.com/embed/comments/?f=cityam&t_i=node%2F147944&t_u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cityam.com%2Farticle%2Fuk-sells-more-outside-eu-inside-first-time-1970s&t_t=UK%E2%80%88sells%20more%20outside%20EU%E2%80%88than%20inside%20for%20first%20time%20since%201970s&t_e=UK%E2%80%88sells%20more%20outside%20EU%E2%80%88than%20inside%20for%20first%20time%20since%201970s&t_d=UK%E2%80%88sells%20more%20outside%20EU%E2%80%88than%20inside%20for%20first%20time%20since%201970s&s_o=popular&disqus_version=1364932970#1



UK trade, the EU, and the Rotterdam Effect

"Europhiles insist that 70% of our trade is with the EU, so it’d be suicide to leave. This is a myth for two reasons – firstly, you can have free trade with the EU without being a member (EEA). But more fundamentally, it’s a deliberate manipulation of statistics – a lot of our world wide trade goes via Holland, as you get very good shipping links there. But because that involves goods being moved from the UK, to Holland (even though they only stay there for a few days), some pro-EU commentators use that to bulk up EU trade figures, and make it look like there’s more genuine intra-EU trade than there really is."

This report - http://www.globalbritain.org/BNN/BN52.pdf - from Global Britain shows that the the EU accounted for something in the range of 47-52% of all UK trade in the years 1999-2007, yet concludes that, due to the Rotterdam/Antwerp effects,

“the real adjusted proportion is likely to be below 40%”

How does Global Europe come to this “below 40%” conclusion? The report explains in an appendix:


“The official ONS [Office of National Statistics] data significantly overstates the real level of UK exports to the rest of the EU, because of… the Rotterdam-Antwerp Effect… The Rotterdam-Antwerp Effect arises because the ONS and its fellow-bodies, in compiling their geographical registers of exports, record as the destination of the export the country of the first port of discharge of a consignment, even when the consignment is only in transit on its way to a different end-destination country… Even when recorded as exports to the Netherlands and Belgium, British goods may not even touch Dutch or Belgian soil, simply being transhipped in the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp to container vessels bound for – say – Singapore.”


http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2010/11/uk-trade-the-eu-and-the-rotterdam-effect/

You have no idea whether or not that would have been the case.

Yes, I do. Commonsense, and the experts, tell me so.

How Gordon Brown Saved Britain from the Euro and Why that Makes him a Hero: http://www.economonitor.com/dolanecon/2011/10/02/how-gordon-brown-saved-britain-from-the-euro-and-why-that-makes-him-a-hero/

Gordon Brown was right to keep Britain out of the Euro. When crisis strikes, flexibility pays off. If Blair had succeeded in bringing the country into the euro before 2007, the effects could have been catastrophic both for the UK and for the euro area as a whole. Without the safety valve of flexible interest rates, inflation, and exchange rates (which Britain has only by being outside the Eurozone), the overgrown, risk-addicted British financial system could very well have crashed as badly as Ireland’s did. Even the mighty Germans could not have bailed it out (the British economy is too big), and the euro might already be history.

But the UK economy is not "back on track" at all? In fact, Ireland has done a
far better job of getting "back on track" than the UK has.

Your economy, and those of France and even Germany (who are to shrink, unlike Britain's, this year and next year), is in a worse state than Britain's.

For example, Ireland is predicted to get no growth in 2013, whereas Britain is predicted to grow about 0.6% this year and 1.8% next year, whilst Ireland, Germany and France see their economies either staying still or shrinking.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21569049-irelands-success-attracting-foreign-investment-has-its-drawbacks-fitter-yet

Many public services would be impossible to provide without immigrants, the NHS in particular.

The NHS is under strain from immigrants, especially those from the EU. I, like MOST British people, want the doors to Britain shut now, whether these people are from outside or inside the EU. Britain is crowded and cannot take anymore people.

It's alright you supporting immigration, however, when you live in one of Europe's emptiest countries. If Ireland ever gets as overcrowded as Britain you may change your mind.

http://pol-check.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-devastating-effects-of-immigration.html#!/2012/10/the-devastating-effects-of-immigration.html

I'm sure there is. Of course, that matters little to the average Briton, who couldn't possibly hope to afford such luxury.

What about Minis, Land Rovers and Vauxhalls? Are they unaffordable to most people?

djpbarry

LindowMan wrote: »

The EU sells more to Britain than Britain sells to the EU. As I've mentioned, the UK has a trade DEFICIT with the EU, which was over £50 billion in 2011 (Britain is, however, in a trade surplus with the rest of the world). So when it comes to selling goods and services, the EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU.

The UK also has a trade deficit with China. Are you going to try and tell us that China needs the UK more than the UK needs China? Go on, give it a try - I'll do my best to keep a straight face.

LindowMan wrote: »

Not only that, but the EU is no longer the UK’s main export market...

Yes it is. The latest figures from the ONS show that in the three months to January 2013, British exports to the EU totaled £37.3 billion. Exports to non-EU countries totaled £37 billion. No other market comes close to the EU in terms of value to UK exporters.

LindowMan wrote: »

UK trade, the EU, and the Rotterdam Effect

Even excluding the Netherlands completely, exports to the EU still dwarf those to the UK's next biggest export market, the US (£10.2 billion versus £3.5 billion in January 2013).

LindowMan wrote: »

Yes, I do.

Without viewing an alternate reality in which the UK joined the Euro, nobody can say with any certainty what would have happened.

LindowMan wrote: »

Commonsense, and the experts, tell me so.

Are these the same "experts" who are feeding you misinformation on British trade?

LindowMan wrote: »

Your economy...

...might want to check my location there chief.

LindowMan wrote: »

...and those of France and even Germany (who are to shrink, unlike Britain's, this year and next year), is in a worse state than Britain's.

Germany's economy is in a worse state than Britain's? Based on what metric?

LindowMan wrote: »

For example, Ireland is predicted to get no growth in 2013, whereas Britain is predicted to grow about 0.6% this year and 1.8% next year...

In March last year, George Osborne predicted growth of 0.8% for the British economy in 2012 - how'd that work out?

LindowMan wrote: »

Britain is crowded and cannot take anymore people.

It can and will.

LindowMan wrote: »

It's alright you supporting immigration, however, when you live in one of Europe's emptiest countries.

I live in London.

LindowMan wrote: »

What about Minis, Land Rovers and Vauxhalls? Are they unaffordable to most people?

Minis and Land Rovers? Definitely, yes.

K-9

Is Mini Brittish these days? I suppose as much as Nissan.

LindowMan

djpbarry wrote: »

The UK also has a trade deficit with China. Are you going to try and tell us that China needs the UK more than the UK needs China? Go on, give it a try - I'll do my best to keep a straight face.
Yes it is.

I will say again.

The UK has a trade deficit with the EU but a trade surplus with the rest of the world.

The latest figures from the ONS show that in the three months to January 2013, British exports to the EU totaled £37.3 billion

A figure that is exaggerated due to the Rotterdam Effect, in which trade which just happens to be passing through Rotterdam but is on its way to a non-EU country is, for some reason, considered by Europhiles to be trade to the EU.

Even excluding the Netherlands completely, exports to the EU still dwarf those to the UK's next biggest export market, the US (£10.2 billion versus £3.5 billion in January 2013).

The amount of goods and services which Britain exports to the EU is decreasing, and is currently at its lowest since records began.

However, UK goods to non-EU countries is increasing and is at a record high. Even between July and August 2012, UK goods to the world outside the EU increased by 11%.

Economists say that Britain is shifting its focus for exports to growing markets in Asia and South America and away from the declining EU.

51% of British exports in the three months to May 2012 went to countries outside the EU, meaning the rest of the world has now replaced the EU as Britain's main export market. It seems likely that the EU is going to continue to decline in importance for British exports.

Scott Corfe and Douglas McWilliams at the Centre for Economics and Business Research said the figures pointed to a "revolution in the orientation of British trade".

"Historically, UK trade has been focused on the former colonies. This started to change in the 1960s as the European countries recovered from the war and trade barriers came down.

"Now, with Europe mired in economic recession and other economies growing faster, British exports are reorienting themselves again towards the fast growing emerging economies."

The reality is that every year, even every month, the EU is becoming less and less important for UK trade.

A poll

Would looser ties with Europe hinder UK trade?

Yes: 14.05%
No: 85.95%

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9410648/Britains-main-export-market-is-no-longer-the-EU.html

Without viewing an alternate reality in which the UK joined the Euro, nobody can say with any certainty what would have happened.

It's almost certain that the UK's economic situation would have been far far worse had it joined the disastrous and doomed Euro. The experts, of which you are not, say that.

Are these the same "experts" who are feeding you misinformation on British trade?

I tend to believe experts, not you.

Germany's economy is in a worse state than Britain's? Based on what metric?
In March last year, George Osborne predicted growth of 0.8% for the British economy in 2012 - how'd that work out?

Britain's economy is to GROW this year and for the next few years, into the forseeable future.

The economies of Germany and France are to SHRINK this year and next year.

Britain is, once again, as she did for years up until the crisis which began in 2008, outperforming France and Germany economically (until 2008 Britain was the ONLY G8 economy to not suffer a recession since 1997).

It can and will.

Britain is crowded, it cannot take more people, public services are being put at strain and the vast majority of the British people want immigration cut NOW.

Thankfully, the Conservatives, unlike Labour, are listening to the concerns of the British people and are reducing immigration from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands.

I don't see why Britain's doors should be left wide open for all and sundry just to flood in.

marienbad

Lindowman, may I ask you just out if curiosity, why are you even posting here ?

Of course you have every right to do so but you are not going to agree with anything said to you and even if you manage to convince anyone of your viewpoint it has little use as they most likely have no vote in your constituency.

LindowMan

marienbad wrote: »

Lindowman, may I ask you just out if curiosity, why are you even posting here ?

Of course you have every right to do so but you are not going to agree with anything said to you and even if you manage to convince anyone of your viewpoint it has little use as they most likely have no vote in your constituency.

This is a discussion forum on the EU in which matters relating to the EU are discussed.

You may not like it, but not everybody is a raving Europhile. Only a minority are.

Although it's typical of the Europhiles to want to try and censor those with opposing views.

LindowMan

In March last year, George Osborne predicted growth of 0.8% for the British economy in 2012 - how'd that work out?

In March 2012, the Office for Budget Responsibility predicted that the UK's economy would shrink by 0.1% in 2012.

But in February this year, figures were released showing that the UK economy did much better than thought, and GREW 0.3% in 2012.

The UK economy is predicted to grow 0.6% in 2013; 1.8% in 2014; 2.3% in 2015; 2.7% in 2016 and 2.8% in 2017.

LindowMan

K-9 wrote: »

Is Mini Brittish these days? I suppose as much as Nissan.

You're getting confused between the BMW Mini and the great British icon, the Mini, produced by British Leyland. The two are unrelated.

The Mini is not produced anymore. The last were built in 2000.

djpbarry

LindowMan wrote: »

A figure that is exaggerated due to the Rotterdam Effect...

As I allude to above, the “Rotterdam effect” is itself exaggerated.

LindowMan wrote: »

The amount of goods and services which Britain exports to the EU is decreasing, and is currently at its lowest since records began.

Since records began? When would that be?

LindowMan wrote: »

51% of British exports in the three months to May 2012 went to countries outside the EU...

Which means that about half of British exports go to the EU. I’d say that’s a pretty heavy dependence.

LindowMan wrote: »

...meaning the rest of the world has now replaced the EU as Britain's main export market.

“The rest of the world” is not a single market, so it’s a meaningless comparison. The EU is the UK’s largest export market by a country mile.

LindowMan wrote: »

It's almost certain that the EU's economic situation would have been far far worse had it joined the disastrous and doomed Euro. The experts, of which you are not, say that.

I’m guessing, in this case, that an “expert” is anyone espousing anything that agrees with your point of view?

LindowMan wrote: »

I tend to believe experts, not you.

All the relevant figures are on the Office of National Statistic’s website - “belief” doesn’t come into it.

LindowMan wrote: »

Britain is, once again, as she did for years up until the crisis which began in 2008, outperforming France and Germany economically (until 2008 Britain was the ONLY G8 economy to not suffer a recession since 1997).

Dude, seriously, put down the eurosceptic twaddle and look at the actual figures. The UK economy had a spurt between around about ’99 and ’08, when it outperformed both Germany and France. Since then, it has tanked and is lagging behind the French and Germans.

The British economy has some very serious issues that are masked to a large extent by the performance of London. No amount of Eurosceptic propaganda is going to change that.

LindowMan wrote: »

Britain is crowded, it cannot take more people...

It can and will.

LindowMan wrote: »

Thankfully, the Conservatives, unlike Labour, are listening to the concerns of the British people and are reducing immigration from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands.

Are they? How?

djpbarry

LindowMan wrote: »

In March 2012, the Office for Budget Responsibility predicted that the UK's economy would shrink by 0.1% in 2012.

Eh, no, it didn't:

The independent Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) forecasts growth of 0.8% in 2012, compared with its autumn estimate of 0.7%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17459466

FreudianSlippers

LindowMan wrote: »

You're getting confused between the BMW Mini and the great British icon, the Mini, produced by British Leyland. The two are unrelated.

The Mini is not produced anymore. The last were built in 2000.

I didn't realise we were discussing the past?! How silly of me

marienbad

LindowMan wrote: »

This is a discussion forum on the EU in which matters relating to the EU are discussed.

You may not like it, but not everybody is a raving Europhile. Only a minority are.

Although it's typical of the Europhiles to want to try and censor those with opposing views.

See this is why it can be hard to take your contribution anyway seriously, in response to a polite query you managed in three short sentences to (a) discern what I do and don't like .(b) class me as a raving Europhile (c) accuse me of being hell bent on censorship. All of which are incorrect.

So can you dispense with your combat stance and answer my question- which is basically why bother trying to convert an audience that can have no bearing on your goals.

FreudianSlippers

marienbad wrote: »

See this is why it can be hard to take your contribution anyway seriously, in response to a polite query you managed in three short sentences to (a) discern what I do and don't like .(b) class me as a raving Europhile (c) accuse me of being hell bent on censorship. All of which are incorrect.

So can you dispense with your combat stance and answer my question- which is basically why bother trying to convert an audience that can have no bearing on your goals.

The constant use of the word 'europhile' in a negative connotation made me switch off from this nonsense ages ago.

marienbad

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The constant use of the word 'europhile' in a negative connotation made me switch off from this nonsense ages ago.

Indeed, up to my one post I had just read the exchanges - maybe I should have continued in that mode

K-9

LindowMan wrote: »

I will say again.

The UK has a trade deficit with the EU but a trade surplus with the rest of the world.



A figure that is exaggerated due to the Rotterdam Effect, in which trade which just happens to be passing through Rotterdam but is on its way to a non-EU country is, for some reason, considered by Europhiles to be trade to the EU.

Yep, the Rotterdam effect, a good chunk of that trade would go on to other EU countries.

LindowMan wrote: »

You're getting confused between the BMW Mini and the great British icon, the Mini, produced by British Leyland. The two are unrelated.

The Mini is not produced anymore. The last were built in 2000.

Well it is not very affordable then!

Scofflaw

Lindow Man wrote:

I will say again.

The UK has a trade deficit with the EU but a trade surplus with the rest of the world.

The UK doesn't have a positive balance of trade with the rest of the world, at least according to their own statistics. On the contrary, it has a bigger trade deficit with the rest of the world than with the EU:

EU | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011
Exports | 112 | 122 | 153 | 127 | 142 | 125 | 142 | 158
Imports | 142 | 148 | 164 | 169 | 180 | 161 | 185 | 199
Balance | -30 | -27 | -11 | -41 | -38 | -37 | -43 | -41
| | | | | | | |
Non-EU | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011
Exports | 80 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 108 | 101 | 121 | 137
Imports | 112 | 125 | 139 | 143 | 163 | 147 | 177 | 195
Balance | -32 | -34 | -48 | -50 | -55 | -46 | -56 | -58

See also: https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/NonEUOverseasTrade/Pages/NonEuOTS.aspx

Why is it that nearly all these boasts and claims turn out to be untrue? Why do people not check them before making them? And why do people feel the need to bolster their position with false claims?

cordially,
Scofflaw

The Corinthian

Scofflaw wrote: »

Why is it that nearly all these boasts and claims turn out to be untrue? Why do people not check them before making them? And why do people feel the need to bolster their position with false claims?

Because of how they approach the question and why.

Most people use a deductive approach when viewing an issue; they see the pros and cons and from that arrive at a conclusion. Some, what we typically would call extremists or fanatics, do this backwards; they begin with the conclusion and then find evidence to support this, ignoring any conflicting evidence that would question the conclusion.

For example, where it comes to balance of trade, it was already pointed out to LindowMan that all he was demonstrating was that the UK has a bad balance of trade with everyone. Also, I pointed out that balance of trade is only one measure of economic well-being or advantage; one cannot ignore the importance of the financial services sector to the UK economy, which benefits hugely from open access to the EU financial markets - even if balance of trade was improved by a British exit from the EU, the damage to the UK economy through the damage to her financial sector would easily outstrip any advantages. Of course, the UK could negotiate access to the EU financial markets - but such access comes with a cost that would put in question the rational for leaving in the first place.

Yet these and numerous other facts (such as the fact that the oft-cited non-EU countries still have EU regulation imposed upon them) were ignored, or simply dismissed, by LindowMan.

Having seen many discussions on this subject here and elsewhere, there tends to be a common, underlying thread of logic from the more 'rabid' eurosceptics - indeed, they're almost all identical (and perhaps may simply be the same poster re-regging over and over again).

Ultimately that logic is based upon xenophobia; they don't want to be 'ruled' by Johnny Foreigner, but aware that such an argument would convince few people, will instead turn to pseudo-economics instead. Every single one of these posters has at one stage or another betrayed such sentiments without exception - even LindowMan, who was less than subtle about it compared to others.

So what it comes down to is a eurosceptic conclusion based on xenophobia, then subsequently rationalized using pseudo-economic arguments. These naturally quickly begin to sound ridiculous once tested, and because they cannot be defended rationally the proponent will use less than ethical stratagems (deflection, dismissal and deception) to do so.

FreudianSlippers

Scofflaw wrote: »

Why is it that nearly all these boasts and claims turn out to be untrue? Why do people not check them before making them? And why do people feel the need to bolster their position with false claims?

cordially,
Scofflaw

When you have such an entrenched viewpoint and want it to be true so badly, you will always find sources that support your point. You will see all of this guys "sources" are from anti-EU websites and periodicals (using that term loosely).

I'm sure I could find plenty of 'evidence' that cats murdered JFK, but that doesn't make it credible. Source: www.catassassins.info

Lockstep

I'm currently living in the UK and the entire EU question is coming up a lot. All of the below is based on my own anecdotal evidence so feel free to take it with a pinch of salt.
UKIP have become a lot more noticed (they have a billboard near my house warning against "Uncontrolled EU immigration", ignoring that the free movement of persons allows deportation on grounds of public policy, safety and so on) than before and pretty much every party seems to be scrambling to shore up their anti-EU credentials. I'm a member of the British Labour Party and it seems very divisive, with the Old Labour socialists generally anti-EU and the New Labour Blairites being a lot more positive about it. Only the LibDems seem to have any sort of coherence on the EU and overall, the extremes of the Far Left and the Far Right both seem to coalesce around the idea of the EU as an evil capitalist/socialist (delete as appropriate) empire.

It's fairly bizarre and to me, it seems that the main problems that people have with the EU are based on ignorance, seeing it as an evil empire that is trying to run roughshod over British pride. I'm fairly fascinated by it and I've been talking to people about it a lot over here and the arguments I've been hearing against the EU range from unelected bureaucrats (ignoring that the main power in the EU is the European Council) to outright xenophobia (such as the fictitious claim that EEA citizens can give birth here and get automatic citizenship). However, noone seems to be advocating leaving the EEA so worries about floods of immigrants are inherently misguided as only if Britain leaves the EEA will this be fixed.
It also seems to partially involve jingoism.

Membership of the EU isn't a colossal dealbreaker for me (I'm not going to leave the UK if it leaves the EU), but personally, I'd much rather Britain remained. If the EU is to have any sort of coherence or voice on the world stage it needs its strongest members and while France, Germany or the UK are individually no match for the US or USSR, when combined (and they have a lot more in common than they differ on) into an EU involving all of the member-states, they can offer a lot more. Plus, Britain has been a counterweight on European affairs for centuries and the EU is no different.

Lockstep

Also, this claptrap about immigration making Britain poorer is a load of rubbish.

This post should explain some stuff
It's the Adam Smith Institute and argues purely on economic grounds (no references to "Fairness" or "Justice") so hopefully this is impartial enough

WayneMolloy

Lockstep wrote: »

Also, this claptrap about immigration making Britain poorer is a load of rubbish.

This post should explain some stuff
It's the Adam Smith Institute and argues purely on economic grounds (no references to "Fairness" or "Justice") so hopefully this is impartial enough

Your own parties leader has admitted that they got it wrong on immigration.

djpbarry

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Your own parties leader has admitted that they got it wrong on immigration.

So what? Would the UK be better off if he got it right?

WayneMolloy

djpbarry wrote: »

So what? Would the UK be better off if he got it right?

Each opinion poll conducted on the issue show us that mass immigration is something that the british public are very concerned about. So yeah.

The UK cannot continue to accept the number of immigrants that they currently are receiving.

WayneMolloy

Lockstep wrote: »

Also, this claptrap about immigration making Britain poorer is a load of rubbish.

This post should explain some stuff
It's the Adam Smith Institute and argues purely on economic grounds (no references to "Fairness" or "Justice") so hopefully this is impartial enough

He seems to argue that immigration helps economic growth. Does the land grow too?

Overcrowding and cogestion is horrific in the UK - I wouldnt live there for all the tea in China.

Scofflaw

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Each opinion poll conducted on the issue show us that mass immigration is something that the british public are very concerned about. So yeah.

The UK cannot continue to accept the number of immigrants that they currently are receiving.

Some numbers on both of those:





Source: British Social Attitudes Survey 2012

cordially,
Scofflaw

djpbarry

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Each opinion poll conducted on the issue show us that mass immigration is something that the british public are very concerned about. So yeah.

Whether or not the British public are concerned was not what I asked.

The Corinthian

djpbarry wrote: »

Whether or not the British public are concerned was not what I asked.

Indeed; I was wondering about that. It's like going back to 2007 and doing a public survey on whether house prices are likely to continue going up for another three years.

Of course, that is probably how we did plan our economy...

Anyhow, it's already been pointed out that leaving the EU makes little difference to the question of immigration unless the UK want to leave the EEA too.

Lockstep

WayneMolloy wrote: »

He seems to argue that immigration helps economic growth. Does the land grow too?

Overcrowding and cogestion is horrific in the UK - I wouldnt live there for all the tea in China.

Is it? I see no problems at all over here so if you have any sources for this I'd be happy to see them.

WayneMolloy

Lockstep wrote: »

Is it? I see no problems at all over here so if you have any sources for this I'd be happy to see them.

The population of england and wales grows by 1, 000 every day. Do you think that this is sustainable?

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_277794.pdf

The Corinthian

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The population of england and wales grows by 1, 000 every day. Do you think that this is sustainable?

Spike the water supply with contraceptives, decrease the duty on cigarettes or create incentives so people move to other parts of the UK.

That should help given that over two thirds of the population growth is due to net births over deaths and not due to net immigration:

| '000 | %
Net: births minus deaths | 66.6 | 70.1
Net: migration from rest of the UK | -1.3 | -1.2
Net: international immigration | 29.7 | 31.1
| |
Total Population Growth | 95.0 | 100.0

Seemingly the birth rate is less sustainable than the immigration rate.