HMV going into administration

efb

Hogzy wrote: »

Thats what my girlfriend tell me all the time.

I think me and your gf could be friends.

Hogzy

efb wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0116/breaking16.html

Dublin closed. I really feel for the staff.

Its only temporary for the Irish stores. HMV Ireland has to apply to a court to be declared in examinership. HMV were probably wrong to refuse vouchers yesterday as the Irish Company was trading as usual. Once the High Court allows for the examinership the shops will reopen.

MagicSean

Hogzy wrote: »

No but I have written many assignments on criminal law, got a 2.1 in my Law degree, passed all 8 FE1 exams and I am currently training as a solicitor. So no, I havnt proven any cases of theft as a qualified solicitor but I plan on doing so in time.

Good luck to you. It's not as easy in a courtroom.

Biggins wrote: »

After a person could be charged with stealing, the thief indeed would have to very much prove payment was accepted in order to be found innocent.
How do you not understand this?

How do you not understand that it is up to the prosecutor to prove the ingredients of a crime?

melekalikimaka wrote: »

only by your distorted definition, look up a legal definition, compare it to his actions, leaving your emotions aside, basing it on facts of what happened.

Thief

surprised nothing will come of it tbh, all it would take would be a person to kick up a who ha about the theft

Did you look up the definition of theft by any chance? It clearly states it must be a dishonest act. And it also defines what a dishonest act is.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

What's all this dishonesty talk? He either broke a law or he didn't. When you buy something from a shop, it's an agreement between yourself and the shop for the transfer of goods for a certain price - Could I just walk up to your house, steal your TV and leave a 50 euro note behind saying it's mine now because I have paid you? No, I couldn't.


Invitation to treat.

Dishonesty is a required ingredient in an act of theft.

Hogzy

efb wrote: »

I think me and your gf could be friends.

I doubt it if both of ye think ye are correct all the time. :P

Melion

So will there be ridiculously cheap sales so they can sell stock?

Biggins

MagicSean wrote: »

...How do you not understand that it is up to the prosecutor to prove the ingredients of a crime?

I completely understand that - in this case if there was a case (yes, as I already mentioned, I doubt there will be), a judge would have an easy case to try I think because quite simply the man cannot prove that his form of legal consideration was willingly accepted on the day, for specific goods.

efb

Hogzy wrote: »

I doubt it if both of ye think ye are correct all the time. :P

We could both agree on how wrong you are mmm hmmm

Biggins

Melion wrote: »

So will there be ridiculously cheap sales so they can sell stock?

Again, debatable.
When a load of Dixons stores around Ireland closed some time back, there was no follow up with cheap sales.

srm23

I heard that oldLad didnt even know HMV were in administration until told half way down henry street

Hogzy

MagicSean wrote: »

Good luck to you. It's not as easy in a courtroom.

Are you a solicitor or barrister?

MagicSean

Hogzy wrote: »

Are you a solicitor or barrister?

Nope

melekalikimaka

Hogzy wrote: »

Are you a solicitor or barrister?

troll

Amirani

srm23 wrote: »

I heard that oldLad didnt even know HMV were in administration until told half way down henry street

They're not though.

Allyall

Now Blockbusters as well, i keep hearing the term "Double-dip Recession" bandied around..
What's that?

Does that mean we are going into a deeper recession or we have been in one, or what?

Also hearing that another 4 or 5 major retailers in deep sh!t..

It does sound scary for the first time since this recession started. How many people could that end up being on the live register? With families..

Time for an "alternative solutions" thread..


EDIT. Just saw this.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0116/hmv-vouchers.html

HMV has confirmed that its 16 shops in the Republic of Ireland are closed today.
In a statement to RTÉ News, the company said it is a short-term measure and they will reopen

Meanwhile, the National Consumer Agency has questioned the legal basis on which HMV in Ireland was refusing to honour gift vouchers.

It said HMV Ireland is a separate company to the UK operation and should accept vouchers with immediate effect.

Amirani

Allyall wrote: »

Now Blockbusters as well, i keep hearing the term "Double-dip Recession" bandied around..
What's that?

Does that mean we are going into a deeper recession or we have been in one, or what?

It means re-entering recession (2 consecutive quarters of negative growth) having emerged from a recession not long before.

DyldeBrill

Pretty sure that the worst of this recession is still to come unfortunately

Allyall

NiallSparky wrote: »

It means re-entering recession (2 consecutive quarters of negative growth) having emerged from a recession not long before.

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Pretty sure that the worst of this recession is still to come unfortunately

Jaysus... That's depressing stuff..

TwoShedsJackson

This 'civil vs criminal' argument is becoming a real pain in the balls.

o1s1n

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Pretty sure that the worst of this recession is still to come unfortunately

It's not just recession issues which are going on here though. The market for physical media has changed dramatically in the last few years. Even if the global recession never happened, you'd still have probably seen a huge reduction in the amount of people purchasing media in brick and mortar stores.

Hobbes

hellboy99 wrote: »

Blockbuster just gone into administration now, not looking good at all

The recession probably didn't help matters but it isn't why they are failing.

They had a dated business model that just isn't sustainable when you are competing against the likes of NetFlix, etc.

Likewise with Music shops like HMV. Why spend all that time going into town to buy a new CD/DVD when you can buy it online and listen to it straight away.

knucklehead6

Hogzy wrote: »

No but I have written many assignments on criminal law, got a 2.1 in my Law degree, passed all 8 FE1 exams and I am currently training as a solicitor. So no, I havnt proven any cases of theft as a qualified solicitor but I plan on doing so in time.

be careful..

There's already a supreme court justice, a circut court judge, God and possibly a Mega-City One judge here.

krudler

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Pretty sure that the worst of this recession is still to come unfortunately

people are saying that since 2008 ffs. The recession didn't close hmv, their business model and changing media forms did.

Dodge

krudler wrote: »

people are saying that since 2008 ffs. The recession didn't close hmv, their business model and changing media forms did.

In fairness they were right in 2008

Spot on about HMV though

Penn

Hobbes wrote: »

They had a dated business model that just isn't sustainable when you are competing against the likes of NetFlix, etc.

Agreed. Some of the Xtra-Visions I've been to over the past year have taken to selling toys, greeting/birthday cards and have a few computers for internet access. But that's no way of evolving your business to compete with online/streaming companies. If anything, it's taking up space for the product your customers do want (but can get cheaper online) and replacing it with a product they're not known for stocking (which people would normally get elsewhere which would have a better selection).

My local Xtra-Vision sells greeting cards... right next door to a newsagents with a bigger selection of greeting cards. Why? It's completely idiotic. Then the rest of the shop is packed that much tighter that it's harder to find what you're actually looking for (dvds packed so tightly in shelves that you can't flip through them to browse)

MagicSean

MagicSean wrote: »

Dishonesty is a required ingredient in an act of theft.

Can you point me to an example of this being the case? I.e. where someone has taken a tangible item from somewhere purposely, only to bring out the old "I didn't know I couldn't do that" defense?

Boombastic

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Can you point me to an example of this being the case? I.e. where someone has taken a tangible item from somewhere purposely, only to bring out the old "I didn't know I couldn't do that" defense?

HMV took money for vouchers they then didn't accept

chops018

Let me straighten it out for all ye "law" talkers on here. There must be a corresponding mens rea to the actus reus, if he honestly believed he was entitled to products in the store to the value of the voucher and he took them, well then he doesn't have the mens rea for theft. Of course, as has been mentioned, it has to be proved by the prosecution.

Also, why is the talk of contract law mixing with criminal law?

And I've seen some post with people saying "he either broke the law or he didn't", do people not know the law is a grey area. No respect being given on here to people who have spent years studying the intricacies of the law (be it procedural or academic).

Hogzy

Penn wrote: »

Agreed. Some of the Xtra-Visions I've been to over the past year have taken to selling toys, greeting/birthday cards and have a few computers for internet access. But that's no way of evolving your business to compete with online/streaming companies. If anything, it's taking up space for the product your customers do want (but can get cheaper online) and replacing it with a product they're not known for stocking (which people would normally get elsewhere which would have a better selection).

My local Xtra-Vision sells greeting cards... right next door to a newsagents with a bigger selection of greeting cards. Why? It's completely idiotic. Then the rest of the shop is packed that much tighter that it's harder to find what you're actually looking for (dvds packed so tightly in shelves that you can't flip through them to browse)

Why Chartbuster and Xtra vision couldnt pool their funds together (when they had funds) and start some sort of streaming business ill never know. They didnt even start a mail order rental service when they were popular. They have nobody to blame for their demise but themselves.

MagicSean

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Can you point me to an example of this being the case? I.e. where someone has taken a tangible item from somewhere purposely, only to bring out the old "I didn't know I couldn't do that" defense?

District court cases aren't generally reported. But here's one for you

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0712/1224319860909.html

Boombastic

Boombastic wrote: »

HMV took money for vouchers they then didn't accept

I'm in agreement that this is a terrible idea and totally unacceptable behaviour, however, essentially what they were selling was a piece of paper/plastic card of store credit that they were under no specific legal obligation to even honour - as it explains on the back.