Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

woodoo

jh79 wrote: »

If the grass is greener why stay with the PS

You are forgetting that i was responding to bombastic. Unless he decides we all get new contracts

tayto lover

jh79 wrote: »

If the grass is greener why stay with the PS

But they're not. Just look at the nurses. Only 30 applied for 1,000 places. The penny has dropped big time.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

But they're not. Just look at the nurses. Only 30 applied for 1,000 places. The penny has dropped big time.

How free are they to apply unions are prone to be bullys

tayto lover

jh79 wrote: »

How free are they to apply unions are prone to be bullys

Ah Jaysus. You can't have it every way. Will ya give over.

Boombastic

woodoo wrote: »

You are forgetting that i was responding to bombastic. Unless he decides we all get new contracts

that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Current staff forced to sign, or signed out

fall

fall wrote: »

It takes 25 years to reach the top of the incremental scale in secondary teaching as an example. Every year you teach and gain experience your responsibilities grow eg you become a tutor. This means as well teaching, preparing, correcting and dealing with discipline issues of your timetabled classes you are the liaison person between tutor and year head for a group of thirty students. you are not allocated any additional time to do this. You intervene in discipline issues and manage all records for that group of students. This can include reports four times a year, meetings with parents, social workers etc and all day to day issues that 30 teenagers will present with.
Most teachers will also engage in extra curricular activities as well like sports, musicals, trips abroad etc.. In an average day a teacher will engage with over one hundred students and be expected to meet their individual educational needs and be answerable to them and their parents.
There are some bad teachers and I think it should be easier to get rid of them but I also think the teaching profession should attract high quality people and this requires attractive remuneration.

A science degree in 2nd level get 50k to 60'kfor basic stuff you could be in industry working with toxic chemicals and various bacteria and getting paid lot less

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

A science degree in 2nd level get 50k to 60'kfor basic stuff you could be in industry working with toxic chemicals and various bacteria and getting paid lot less

I have some teaching experience but it was not for me, 2nd level is not academically challenging in fairness

fall

jh79 wrote: »

A science degree in 2nd level get 50k to 60'kfor basic stuff you could be in industry working with toxic chemicals and various bacteria and getting paid lot less

15 years experience for 50k and the welfare of your students is not basic. Toxic students can be just as harmful as chemicals

fall

fall wrote: »

15 years experience for 50k and the welfare of your students is not basic. Toxic students can be just as harmful as chemicals

No it is not the same

Boombastic

fall wrote: »

15 years experience for 50k and the welfare of your students is not basic. Toxic students can be just as harmful as chemicals

I'd give them the €50,000 after 15 years. As long at the school working week for teachers is lengthened from 22 to 39. (note I said teachers, not students, they can use this as their planning time). Summer holidays shortened to 6 weeks. No more allowances for yard duty etc.

Celticfire

Boombastic wrote: »

Time to re-draft all contracts, remove increments and stop sending the new recruits to the slaughter..or are the public sector not willing to reform:eek:?

Boombastic wrote: »

that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Current staff forced to sign, or signed out

Is this supposed to be a serious forum or AH?

Boombastic

Celticfire wrote: »

Is this supposed to be a serious forum or AH?

Serious.

Celticfire

Boombastic wrote: »

Serious.

So what's happens then if nobody signs up to your little plan?
Now you've no Doctors, Paramedics, Firefighters,Teachers,Nurses, nobody to clean your water, Police force, Army etc etc

Boombastic

Celticfire wrote: »

So what's happens then if nobody signs up to your little plan?
Now you've no Doctors, Paramedics, Firefighters,Teachers,Nurses, nobody to clean your water, Police force, Army etc etc

Start recruitment, offer full time permanent jobs. There are thousands of people with all sorts of skills on the dole and in the private sector who would snap up these positions if they became available. Train them where necessary. For example, There is a surplus of teachers in the country wanting a full time job, no shortage, as for the others, recruit new people, from abroad if necessary. 2010 and 2011 nurses will take up the jobs offered.

Doctors- Are they under the CP agreement?
Army - probably can cut numbers there, not exactly a vital service within our country. We need some for moving money etc but call some back from oversea tours / Start recruitment
Clean water? councils, using money from the household charge
Garda-How long is Garda training? 18 month to 2 years, start recruiting and training


Not as many as you think won't sign, if the option they are facing is the dole. They're are no shortage of people to fill most of these areas.


Also too many middle managers and surplus admin. Restructuring is needed in a lot of departments.

MysticalRain

Celticfire wrote: »

So what's happens then if nobody signs up to your little plan?
Now you've no Doctors, Paramedics, Firefighters,Teachers,Nurses, nobody to clean your water, Police force, Army etc etc

That would probably bring on an onslaught of mass privatization.

Be careful what you wish for. It may have some unintended results.

tayto lover

Garda shot tonight in Dundalk and in critical condition.
I suppose all the anti Public Sector heroes will still want to cut their wages.
Get a life lads.
Stupid comments regarding lads on dole replacing the Public Sector workers will be comforting to his relatives i'm sure.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

Garda shot tonight in Dundalk and in critical condition.
I suppose all the anti Public Sector heroes will still want to cut their wages.
Get a life lads.
Stupid comments regarding lads on dole replacing the Public Sector workers will be comforting to his relatives i'm sure.

So CP2 should be cancelled?


Edit: Not all people will come from the dole. A lot of people in short time contracts would only be too delighted to take the option of longer ones, people moving from private sector to public sector.

@mysticalrain, privatisation is not the only option

Celticfire

Boombastic wrote: »

Start recruitment, offer full time permanent jobs. There are thousands of people with all sorts of skills on the dole and in the private sector who would snap up these positions if they became available. Train them where necessary. For example, There is a surplus of teachers in the country wanting a full time job, no shortage, as for the others, recruit new people, from abroad if necessary. 2010 and 2011 nurses will take up the jobs offered.

Doctors- Are they under the CP agreement?
Army - probably can cut numbers there, not exactly a vital service within our country. We need some for moving money etc but call some back from oversea tours / Start recruitment
Clean water? councils, using money from the household charge
Garda-How long is Garda training? 18 month to 2 years, start recruiting and training


Not as many as you think won't sign, if the option they are facing is the dole. They're are no shortage of people to fill most of these areas.


Also too many middle managers and surplus admin. Restructuring is needed in a lot of departments.

Who's going to do the recruiting? Your HR departments are gone also.
Who's going to do all the training ?
No Police force for 2 years

You've actually gone beyond silly.....

MysticalRain

tayto lover wrote: »

Garda shot tonight in Dundalk and in critical condition.
I suppose all the anti Public Sector heroes will still want to cut their wages.
Get a life lads.
Stupid comments regarding lads on dole replacing the Public Sector workers will be comforting to his relatives i'm sure.

That was a cheap shot.

tayto lover

MysticalRain wrote: »

That was a cheap shot.

It was probably the most appropriate post in a thread full of cheap shots so suck it up.

Boombastic

Celticfire wrote: »

Who's going to do the recruiting? Your HR departments are gone also.
Who's going to do all the training ?
No Police force for 2 years

You've actually gone beyond silly.....

You seem to think that everyone will go, they won't


No police force for 2 years? I never said that. Start recruiting and training now. Cut down current pay step by step over the 2 years. in 2 years we will have new Gardai on a new salary and the older ones will have there cut down to match

fall

Boombastic wrote: »

I'd give them the €50,000 after 15 years. As long at the school working week for teachers is lengthened from 22 to 39. (note I said teachers, not students, they can use this as their planning time). Summer holidays shortened to 6 weeks. No more allowances for yard duty etc.[/

22 hours are literally your teaching hours ie class contact. Every other hour is admin/ pastoral care/ meeting parents/ detention/ extra classes/ extra curricular. Some of those are on site and some are off. Any full time teacher does not do less than 39 hours. Only 22 are timetabled. How long does it take to correct the homework of thirty students for example? These are the things when people talk about teachers that are not mentioned. The 22 hours are teaching time alone and not one second of anything else is accounted for. Teachers worth their salt are still in school in June, reorganising, researching and available to exam students.

Boombastic

fall wrote: »

22 hours are literally your teaching hours ie class contact. Every other hour is admin/ pastoral care/ meeting parents/ detention/ extra classes/ extra curricular. Some of those are on site and some are off. Any full time teacher does not do less than 39 hours. Only 22 are timetabled. How long does it take to correct the homework of thirty students for example? These are the things when people talk about teachers that are not mentioned. The 22 hours are teaching time alone and not one second of anything else is accounted for. Teachers worth their salt are still in school in June, reorganising, researching and available to exam students.

I know 22 hours is contact time. There contract should be for 39. The other 17 hours are for planning, correcting etc. Teachers already put in these hours, why are they so against formalising them? It's acknowledging the hours they already do.

Celticfire

Boombastic wrote: »

You seem to think that everyone will go, they won't


No police force for 2 years? I never said that. Start recruiting and training now. Cut down current pay step by step over the 2 years. in 2 years we will have new Gardai on a new salary and the older ones will have there cut down to match

So you don't want everyone to sign up or sign out right now..... only when they've trained their replacements, is that your logic? :rolleyes:

MysticalRain

tayto lover wrote: »

It was probably the most appropriate post in a thread full of cheap shots so suck it up.

And you have done a fine job making your own side look unreasonable. Sometimes saying nothing is the smartest thing to do.

tayto lover

MysticalRain wrote: »

And you have done a fine job making your own side look unreasonable. Sometimes saying nothing is the smartest thing to do.

Ha ha. Are you for real coming out with some of the stuff you have said and then to talk about being smart.

Boombastic

Celticfire wrote: »

So you don't want everyone to sign up or sign out right now..... only when they've trained their replacements, is that your logic? :rolleyes:

For instance in the gardai, existing ones have 2 years to decide if they wish to resign their contracts. In the mean time the recruitment embargo is lifted immediately and recruitment is started again on the new terms and conditions. People on part time and short contracts will be given the opportunity to sign up for the new contracts.

tayto lover

A Garda has been shot dead near to where i live tonight doing his duty and we have lads here who never did anything dangerous in their lives talking drivel about how to cut his wages. Shame on them.

Condolences to his wife and two young children.

Vizzy

tayto lover wrote: »

Garda shot tonight in Dundalk and in critical condition.
I suppose all the anti Public Sector heroes will still want to cut their wages.
Get a life lads.
Stupid comments regarding lads on dole replacing the Public Sector workers will be comforting to his relatives i'm sure.

Unfortunately the Garda has since died - RIP

ardmacha

In the mean time the recruitment embargo is lifted immediately and recruitment is started again on the new terms and conditions

You could make a film about it, Police Academy might be a good title.