Darting objects in night sky

al28283

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Even a helicopter would be hard pressed to "dart". It could be something deceptively close like birds or insects lit from below.

or bats like i mentioned before. I definately don't believe they were outside the atmosphere as some people are saying

Zubeneschamali

al28283 wrote: »

or bats like i mentioned before. I definately don't believe they were outside the atmosphere as some people are saying

Bats are all tucked up for the winter.

murphyaii

and whatever it was it moved in a straight line and it wasn't a shooting star or the space station as it moved like a ship of sorts.
from ballylinan in co laois where the sky is usually crystal clear.
still freaked out by it and it was like 2 weeks ago.

al28283

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Bats are all tucked up for the winter.

Either way I'd side with small and close rather than massive and far away

Zubeneschamali

murphyaii wrote: »

and whatever it was it moved in a straight line and it wasn't a shooting star or the space station as it moved like a ship of sorts.

So, not in a straight line?

ThunderCat

Is it possible that these sightings could be birds? The reason being that a lot of birds visit our shores solely during the winter months. Most of the time they arrive during the night aswell and the majority of these winter visitors are waders and waterfowl. General characteristics of these birds are that they have light underparts and dark backs and wings. The reason being when they float on water, anything looking up at them from below only see their light parts and thus the bird is somewhat disguised, and anything looking from above only see the dark parts which blend in well against the dark water. When they fly during the night however, their pale bellys are exposed and a lot of them fall victim to peregrine falcon attacks because the falcons can clearly see their pale underparts. I wonder is that what people are seeing? Various species fly at different altitudes also and stay silent a lot of the time so they don't attract attention. Apologies for going down the birdwatching route rather than offering up anything astronomical but it could be an answer nonetheless. Great thread by the way, has me facinated.

muskyj

this thread is hurting my head, simply because there doesn't seem to be any logical explanation for what the op and others have seen. like a few other posters i have 25+ years of sky observing experience and i have never seen anything like this (or anything that could not be explained easily for that matter). i have seen something like described on those tv shows that try to investigate if something is real or has been faked. they couldn't explain the footage either. speaking of which, could the op try and get some footage of this object as it would give a much better chance of identifying it. like others i believe this object is within the atmosphere but can't put forward any suggestions as to what it might be. i was thinking flying insects for a while (glowing or otherwise) but there are hardly any about this time year.

Lone Stone

i saw the same type of thing about 3 years ago now, it was bright kind of amber glow i was just putting the bins out when i looked up and saw what i thought was a really bright star, It was still at first then it shot down i thought it was a shooting star so i stopped to look at it. Then as it was shooting down it just stopped didnt slow down or anything just stopped on the spot then darted off in another direction then up in a arc to a little spiral move then just shot off out over the sea by the howth road in dublin, i never saw anything like it.

It looked like huge distances in seconds nearly, because i would often see planes going by around here and it would take them a fair bit longer to move the distance this thing did.

auzworld

I told my wife about these things... and never thought she really thought i was serious.... and again... people... yesterday ... after 8 mins studying sky .. found another... even with a bright moon ... was going one direction west ... then started moving north....I admin it was just bearly visible but there... luckly my wife was at hand and she too witness this moving in straight lines but then different directions ..... slowing down then speeding up ...... she was saying "what is it ??"
I'm glad she doesn't think i'm making this up....
maybe these are more active over the city than rural areas ....
muskyj and understand your frustration of not seeing something similar

Zubeneschamali

auzworld wrote: »

understand your frustration of not seeing something similar

I'm not frustrated, I'm just not sure why this is in Astronomy and Space. If these things make sharp turns, they are not in space, they are low in the atmosphere.

Popoutman

People that have no experience in observing the sky often do not have the skills to track a steadily moving object against the sky background. The eye's movements in trying to follow it, combined with a lack of a background to compare the moving object against, leads to an optical illusion where something that is moving in a steady straight line will appear to move in non-straight ways. It isn't the object that is moving oddly, but the brain is being fooled as there aren't references to allow the inexperienced to see the true movement.

One thing that years of observing has taught me is to recognise my own limitations in perception, and that in turn allows be to use different methods to get useful information. E.g. averted vision for faint or extended objects, and looking at a background set of stars to see a satellite's movement instead of looking actively for movement by looking around.

Our vision system is very well set up, but it isn't perfect. At least once you know exactly how good or bad your own is, you can then be a lot more accurate with your observing.

3ndahalfof6

Could they be golden snitches.

auzworld

I agree with you popoutman... Its easy to be fooled due to your eyes tracking them and being fooled that stationary objects seem to move.... and as I said before I feel stronglly this was not the case ....
In light of recent events and looking at captures of youtube videos ... I'm buying the following setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmxRQEocSsI
.... already bought the Yukon Ranger Digital Night Vision 5 X42 Binoculars ... So once setup and I do capture video I'd share it on this fourm ..

Popoutman

Make sure to get a good tripod mount, and when taking footage, try to get a decent length of time where you are not actually touching the tripod or binoculars. This makes it a lot easier to good analysis afterwards, as it makes it unnecessary to compensate for the shakiness of hand-holding.

Zubeneschamali

auzworld wrote: »

So once setup and I do capture video I'd share it on this fourm ..

I'd suggest the Nature & Birdwatching forum, or Aviation & Aircraft. I wouldn't know one wader from another in night footage, and I'm not big on helicopters, either.

auzworld

Popoutman - Thanks for advice and will take that onboard !!
Zubeneschamali ... I would like to get peoples opinions and feel its in the right place .... if you not interested in judging any that might arise... thats ok !

DaveR1

Video of something like what ye have seen
http://vimeo.com/57757618

Appears at 1.30 - 1.35 in the time lapse sky video.
Difference is 1 second on the video = approx 10min real time.

H3llR4iser

Let's just "man up" and admit it, shall we? There's nothing know to mankind that makes any sense to explain what the OP reported and shows in the Death Valley timelapse video.

Explanations such as Chinese lanterns, birds, insects, sparks from chimneys, hallucinations and the likes are a pure act of clutching at straws, sometimes more of a leap of fantasy than it would be to say UFO; which technically speaking is the correct term here, Unidentified Flying Object, since most likely the "light" was indeed in the atmosphere or in close proximity of it, otherwise the phenomena would have been observed by most astronomers and observatories in the northern hemisphere.

The only thing that pops up my mind, without exploring the possibility that nobody wants to explore, is: are there any man-made satellites with a relatively quick redeployment capability? E.g. equipped with thrusters that allow them to be remotely repositioned?

It would be a very good idea to keep the observation - I'll do myself (Cork area), weather permitting. Would be good to collect more data and perhaps some footage.

Zubeneschamali

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Let's just "man up" and admit it, shall we? There's nothing know to mankind that makes any sense to explain what the OP reported and shows in the Death Valley timelapse video.

That Death Valley footage is amazing! It's as if someone invented some kind of craft that travels through the air and has artificial lights on it!

The only thing that pops up my mind, without exploring the possibility that nobody wants to explore, is: are there any man-made satellites with a relatively quick redeployment capability? E.g. equipped with thrusters that allow them to be remotely repositioned?

Nothing that could change orbit so fast that it would make a visible tight turn seen from the ground. A Saturn 5 moonrocket somehow lofted into orbit couldn't make a tight turn like that even firing it's main engines.

Orbital speed is really, really fast, like 10,000 miles an hour fast. You cannot turn quickly at those speeds, full stop.

al28283

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Let's just "man up" and admit it, shall we? There's nothing know to mankind that makes any sense to explain what the OP reported and shows in the Death Valley timelapse video.

Explanations such as Chinese lanterns, birds, insects, sparks from chimneys, hallucinations and the likes are a pure act of clutching at straws, sometimes more of a leap of fantasy than it would be to say UFO; which technically speaking is the correct term here, Unidentified Flying Object, since most likely the "light" was indeed in the atmosphere or in close proximity of it, otherwise the phenomena would have been observed by most astronomers and observatories in the northern hemisphere.

The only thing that pops up my mind, without exploring the possibility that nobody wants to explore, is: are there any man-made satellites with a relatively quick redeployment capability? E.g. equipped with thrusters that allow them to be remotely repositioned?

It would be a very good idea to keep the observation - I'll do myself (Cork area), weather permitting. Would be good to collect more data and perhaps some footage.

I'm not sure "man up" really applies to the situation .


As for your satelitte theory, apparently these things move much much faster than planes. Considering planes would be far closer than any satellite, meaning these things are either moving many times the speed of a plane. It is far more likely that whatever these are they are much closer than they seem.

H3llR4iser

Ah, poor stupid me not knowing what a plane is nor how a satellite works.

Let's all decide it's a bat reflecting a lot of light wearing a tinfoil suit, because saying "we don't know what it is" about something that we have no idea what it is seems somewhat unacceptable.

ps200306

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Let's just "man up" and admit it, shall we? There's nothing know to mankind that makes any sense to explain what the OP reported and shows in the Death Valley timelapse video.

Whatcha mean? The ones in the video are quite clearly planes. At 1:25 you see the red beacon light of a plane and at 1:35 the white strobe light. In both cases, if you freeze frame it you can see that the path is actually a trail of dots ... due to the fact that both types of light flash on and off.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Ah, poor stupid me not knowing what a plane is nor how a satellite works. Let's all decide it's a bat reflecting a lot of light wearing a tinfoil suit, because saying "we don't know what it is" about something that we have no idea what it is seems somewhat unacceptable.

Of course we don't know what it is... hence the thread. However, there's no harm ruling out the impossible and speculating from among the remaining possibilities. We're trying to get from guesswork to a plausible hypothesis.

H3llR4iser

ps200306 wrote: »

Whatcha mean? The ones in the video are quite clearly planes. At 1:25 you see the red beacon light of a plane and at 1:35 the white strobe light. In both cases, if you freeze frame it you can see that the path is actually a trail of dots ... due to the fact that both types of light flash on and off.



Of course we don't know what it is... hence the thread. However, there's no harm ruling out the impossible and speculating from among the remaining possibilities. We're trying to get from guesswork to a plausible hypothesis.

Seems like you are right about the Death Valley video; I hadn't even considered the trail at 1.26 as it's clearly a plane. The on that circles three times between 1.30 and 1.35 is a tough call, as it appear to be a continuous trail - however I think that if you run through it carefully, you can spot a faint hint of green light before the turn at the right of the screen, and then a faint hint of red - the nav lights on the wingtips.

I have no problem saying I was wrong.

What I do have a problem, however, is the condescending attitude - read above posts.

Another issue is that I find it amusing that most of the times, looking for a "reasonable explanation" only becomes an exercise of pure closed-mindedness, with most of the hypothesis put forward being beyond absurd, stretched and ridiculous - e.g. bats, insects, birds, laser pointers and so on. They're just as pretentious and air-thin as somebody shouting "it's aliens coming get us", have the same non existing foundations but are somehow considered more acceptable just because they're the lazy option: something simple, reassuring and known.

al28283

H3llR4iser wrote: »

bats, insects, birds, laser pointers and so on.

We know these things exist so it so it's not a stupid idea to start there before going on to aliens or something else we don't know exist.

Saying we don't know what this is so we shouldn't even try hazard a guess kinda defeats the entire purpose of discussing it.

ps200306

al28283 wrote: »

We know these things exist so it so it's not a stupid idea to start there before going on to aliens or something else we don't know exist.

Saying we don't know what this is so we shouldn't even try hazard a guess kinda defeats the entire purpose of discussing it.

+1. As I said before, we start by ruling out the impossible. Then we have a spectrum of more or less likely things. There are some things we can't rule out categorically, but I don't think it's unfair to say that objects that are visible at 400 km distance are unlikely to be darting about with accelerations that would have to be similar to that of a bullet in the barrel of a rifle. A bat or a bird may be highly unlikely, but it's very much more likely than a space-based object moving with an acceleration of 10,000 g.

Mountainsandh

How do you know for sure what's impossible though ?

Imagine a time traveller, who's able to make calls from his handsfree mobile set (to our century), from the 16th century (where he has travelled).

Now imagine two contemporaries observing this man talking, and speculating whether he's just mad talking to himself, talking to a tiny entity they can't see, talking to a God of some form etc... and one of them stating that it's clearly impossible he could be talking to a real other person in another location, because it's clearly impossible his word could be transmitted through thin air to a location they can't see with their own eyes.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about and you have great science to back you up, but how can you be 100 % positive that something is impossible ?

edit : excuse the convoluted example, it's just the best way I can think of to illustrate how something that seems impossible to us at this moment in time may in fact, not be so.

al28283

Mountainsandh wrote: »

How do you know for sure what's impossible though ?

Imagine a time traveller, who's able to make calls from his handsfree mobile set from the 16th century.

Now imagine two contemporaries observing this man talking, and speculating whether he's just mad talking to himself, talking to a tiny entity they can't see, talking to a God of some form etc... and one of them stating that it's clearly impossible he could be talking to a real other person in another location, because it's clearly impossible his word could be transmitted through thin air to a location they can't see with their own eyes.

Popoutman

You never start by ruling out the impossible. You start with ruling in what is likely and/or the simplest, then only ruling that out if there's good enough reason to and understanding exactly why that reason is good enough. After that, look at the next more likely or simple reason.

Zubeneschamali

H3llR4iser wrote: »

most of the hypothesis put forward being beyond absurd, stretched and ridiculous - e.g. bats, insects, birds, laser pointers and so on.

The most weird looking thing I ever saw in the sky was back in 2006: a cluster of orange lights which flew across the sky while I was in the park near my house: I knew for a fact it/they couldn't be in space (it/they changed direction), or a plane (no red/green or strobe lights, no sound), or any other thing I had ever seen in 20 years of skywatching. Could it be a blimp hung with lights? I was stumped.

But it flew over again a few minutes later when I was on a road with streetlights, and it was just a barn owl, about 20 feet up. The orange lights I had seen were reflections of distant sodium streetlights on its plumage.

So even someone who has spent years staring at stars, planets, satellites, comets and other strange lights in the sky can be fooled by a bird and mistaken perspective.

Mountainsandh

al28283 wrote: »

excuse the convoluted example, it's just the best way I can think of to illustrate how something that seems impossible to us at this moment in time may in fact, not be so.

Impossible speeds, impossible sharp turns ?