Darting objects in night sky

al28283

Bats can hover, not for minutes at a time but the can hover. They also very hard to hear unless you're very close

Maudi

auzworld wrote: »

ps200306 >> The turn around the star was just smaller the moon in size ..... sharp enough .... but was doing a clockwise move...
I'd be able to look away and find them again due based on the patch of sky i was looking at due to their movement ... I'd need to concentrate on that patch but would find them again ... I got very good eyesight and don't wear corrective lenses ...
regarding averting my gaze ... I would focus on the stationary star and see movement from these things at the corner of my eye ..
Nope .. it was not a towel .. .I think one of them was holding a phone

monkeysnapper > no i'm not using anything ... will dig out a a pair of bio's and try to steady them on something stationary if i can...

hi..i dont smoke but f its clear i would be out for a look every hour or so..ive seen lots of (i presume to be )space junk going across the sky.small star size moving fairly slowly...ive spotted the i.s.s a few times..im gona keep an eye out for your tingys ..if im looking north what position on the clock should i be looking.so to speak.

Jesus Nut

I think I have seen the same thing you have OP.

I have no clue as to what it is.

I am a Pilot and twice while flying at night I have seen this type of thing in the sky and asked Shannon Radar to confirm if there was other traffic in my area and I got a No.

Last year, at about 2am I was at Birmingham airport on the ramp. It was a clear night and I spotted the same thing and a couple of other crew and workers on the airport ramp seen 2 things aswell. They stop. Then dart off fast or move slow. We called the airport tower at the time to see if they had anything odd on radar but they didnt.

We put it down to mabey the RAF testing some sort of new aircraft not disclosed to the public yet or mabey the yanks.

ZeRoY

An airplane coming directly towards your direction can be funny sight too....

nervous_twitch

I've also seen something very similar (but have kept schtum until now for fear of sounding like a loon.) Initially I thought it was a satellite, as it was travelling through the sky in that same way, but then it just stopped - remained completely stationary for about 20 seconds - before darting across the sky at a completely different angle, with incredible speed. Its movements were strictly linear though, no circles.

It was definitely an object outside of our atmosphere (ie not a chinese lantern ) and looked pretty much identical to how a satellite might, just with this bizarre, impossible trajectory. I'm fairly rational though so I assume it was just an optical illusion or something. Maybe a satellite, a star and a meteoroid conspiring to confuse me. Or maybe it was the twelve beers I had. Kidding. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled while the skies are clear.

auzworld

The first time I saw one..... I though I was looking at some metor ... but when it stopped .. I was like Wtf ?? ... then changed direction ... was like WTF ??? Well .. I glad I'm not the only person that see these things .... as you mentioned defo outside of our atmosphere .... I believe this is true ... !!

al28283

nervous_twitch wrote: »

It was definitely an object outside of our atmosphere

How can you tell it's outside of our atmosphere? I'm certain that's impossible to tell with the naked eye

nervous_twitch

al28283 wrote: »

How can you tell it's outside of our atmosphere? I'm certain that's impossible to tell with the naked eye

Perhaps you're right. I think my semantics are wrong. I just meant it didn't appear to be of the troposphere; too far out to be a bat or a bird or a plane. It looked no different from a satellite or star. But like I said, optics aren't always reliable so I don't know.

MMAGirl

no idea what it was. I saw the exact same thing last week.

Ive seen plenty of meteors, satellites, space station, chinese lanterns and so on.
It was definitely none of those. Wasnt my imagination because my husband saw it too.

ps200306

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Perhaps you're right. I think my semantics are wrong. I just meant it didn't appear to be of the troposphere; too far out to be a bat or a bird or a plane. It looked no different from a satellite or star. But like I said, optics aren't always reliable so I don't know.

But a star may be a billion times wider than a satellite. So something that looks like a star or satellite could just as easily be a torch from half a mile away or a bat in a tinfoil suit. Depth perception is notoriously non-existent at night.

A plane at 30,000 ft is probably doing 700 miles per hour. Something that looks similar but is "darting" about is super unlikely to be at that distance -- it would have to be not only doing the same or greater speed but also undergoing pretty impossible accelerations. For a satellite you could multiply that by a factor of at least 25.

On that basis I'd say we're looking at something a lot closer to home.

ps200306

Would the people who have seen this be willing to say what region of the country they've seen it in? I do most of my sky watching in Wexford and have never seen it there.

ps200306

Also - what time of night? How long after sunset? What angular altitude -- e.g. close to the horizon or the zenith or somewhere in between? Was it near any constellations or planets that you recognised? Was there any moon?

auzworld

Well I live in west dublin ( walkinstown area ) .... So the area of sky would be a bit more west .. about more half way from horizon and it travelled to near vertical of my location... 2-3 nights ago i witnessed it on a clear night without a moon .... there would have been small patches of cloud in areas but largely clear.... will try to give you more detail when i get another clear night as tonight is cloudy ... would have been 9pm -10 pm at the time.

ps200306

On these cold nights ... has anyone considered the possibility of sparks from a neighbour's chimney? It would certainly have the right sort of erratic movement. You might poohpah the idea of not being able to tell the difference between something ten yards away and ten light years away, but at night it's completely impossible. I remember seeing a large fire on the ground from a plane once -- it was only when it was still visible half an hour later I realised it was either the biggest fire ever... or a light on the end of the wing.

Motopepe

dont forget eye floaters!

ps200306

Motopepe wrote: »

dont forget eye floaters!

I wouldn't think they'd produce luminous effects -- they don't for me anyway.

nervous_twitch

ps200306 wrote: »

But a star may be a billion times wider than a satellite. So something that looks like a star or satellite could just as easily be a torch from half a mile away or a bat in a tinfoil suit. Depth perception is notoriously non-existent at night.

A plane at 30,000 ft is probably doing 700 miles per hour. Something that looks similar but is "darting" about is super unlikely to be at that distance -- it would have to be not only doing the same or greater speed but also undergoing pretty impossible accelerations. For a satellite you could multiply that by a factor of at least 25.

On that basis I'd say we're looking at something a lot closer to home.

I'm not an idiot. Whatever I saw I can't explain - even if it was indeed a plane, it was still undergoing pretty impossible accelerations. I've no doubt there's a reasonable explanation for whatever it was, I just havent worked out what that might be. Those who say bats, or lanterns or floaters (all of which, as a regular stargazer, I have seen) really don't have a clear idea of what I'm referring to. It wasn't on the horizon. It was up. The faintest pin of blue light, which - when stationary - sat amongst the stars like any other. The kind of thing you'd only see if you were specifically looking at the night sky.

I knew I shouldnt have said anything, because people immediately assume you're heralding the arrival of aliens. I know that it was either a natural phenomenon or something that my own vision misunderstood (though with all these similar reports I do wonder), but for someone to say it was just a plane or chimney sparks is insulting tbh.

nervous_twitch

Also, I'm in South Dublin. Can't remember if the moon was out or not. About one or two am. Much closer to zenith than horizon. I'd taken out the telescope to look at Vega and Deneb.

ps200306

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I'm not an idiot. Whatever I saw I can't explain - even if it was indeed a plane, it was still undergoing pretty impossible accelerations. I've no doubt there's a reasonable explanation for whatever it was, I just havent worked out what that might be. Those who say bats, or lanterns or floaters (all of which, as a regular stargazer, I have seen) really don't have a clear idea of what I'm referring to. It wasn't on the horizon. It was up. The faintest pin of blue light, which - when stationary - sat amongst the stars like any other. The kind of thing you'd only see if you were specifically looking at the night sky.

I knew I shouldnt have said anything, because people immediately assume you're heralding the arrival of aliens. I know that it was either a natural phenomenon or something that my own vision misunderstood (though with all these similar reports I do wonder), but for someone to say it was just a plane or chimney sparks is insulting tbh.

n_t, I definitely didn't mean to imply that you were an idiot. I was just interested in your original statement that "It was definitely an object outside of our atmosphere". I take it now that you meant "its appearance was like objects outside our atmosphere but its behaviour makes that unlikely/impossible". I'm not sure why you would consider a suggestion like chimney sparks insulting, bearing in mind that you agree that whatever it was, it was probably not what it appeared to be. In other words, it was star-like in appearance but behaved as only a very nearby object could normally behave, in terms of angular speed and acceleration. I think if someone had said to me that my fire spotted from the air was actually a light on the end of the plane's wing, I would not have been insulted but would have tried to explain why a wing light was not consistent with the appearance and behaviour I was seeing (in which case, as it turns out, I would have been wrong).

maguffin

This isn't exactly the same, but it shows you that some thought it was a UFO, others a 'Drone' and some a 'Planet'.....but everyone saw these lights including the TV presenter....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZc3jM_xxZ4

and...UFO doesn't always mean 'aliens'

ps200306

So, what have we got so far?

• luminous object(s) seen at night
• point like, akin to a star or satellite in appearance
• steady light, not flashing
• sometimes moving, sometimes stationary
• changes in speed and direction characterised as "darting"
• mostly linear motion but some reports of circular motion
• one report of multiple objects, not behaving in unison
• no sound or smell reported
• clear viewing conditions, no obvious cloud nearby
• suburban area (as reported so far)
• infrequent -- most (but not all) people reporting just one incident

Things we can probably rule out:

• objects outside the atmosphere -- angular speed and acceleration would be physically impossible
• objects illuminated by sunlight (satellites, noctilucent clouds etc.) -- not high enough and sun too far below the horizon
• meteors or other falling objects -- sharp changes of direction unlikely, and stationary appearance impossible
• electric discharge phenomena -- aurorae (too southerly, too point like), lightning/ball lightning (wrong weather conditions?)

Things we can't categorically rule out, although each is unlikely in its own way (but also bearing in mind that when we have ruled out the impossible there is only whatever is left):

• nearby incandescent material -- Chinese lanterns, sparks, fireworks
• optical illusions, including those resulting from eye defects, peripheral vision, and low light acclimatisation
• projected lights -- torches, car headlights, laser pointers

I'd be inclined to rule out optical illusions, since we have various degrees of experienced observers who would be on the lookout for such things. I'm not convinced by lanterns or sparks, although I do think with the right combination of calm conditions with wind shear at different levels you could possibly reproduce the stationary plus erratic behaviour. Most likely for me at the moment is a laser pointer. Amateur astronomers increasingly use them, they can project compact spots, stationary and darting motion is easily explained, there could be multiples, a user might encircle an object of interest, and so on. Would have to bear in mind though that a projected laser spot is probably actually no more than a few hundred metres to a couple of kilometres away, so would be unlikely to be seen in a truly remote location.

Calibos

maguffin wrote: »

This isn't exactly the same, but it shows you that some thought it was a UFO, others a 'Drone' and some a 'Planet'.....but everyone saw these lights including the TV presenter....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZc3jM_xxZ4

and...UFO doesn't always mean 'aliens'

Mere seconds into the video I said that's Sirius or Capella. Classic example of a bright star that scintillates like that with colours in the bad seeing below about 25* in alt.

ps200306

Calibos wrote: »

Mere seconds into the video I said that's Sirius or Capella. Classic example of a bright star that scintillates like that with colours in the bad seeing below about 25* in alt.

Could be exacerbated by layers of different density air also. Possible temperature inversion conditions. That could also explain the sighting that had one of the objects fall to a lower position and stop again. Basically a mirage in the air.

auzworld

I would rule out lazer pointers as I feel a lazer point would dart across the sky too quickly and not be kept steady very easily. this has a steady speed generally but and accelerate quicker .. and stops dead... no shaking .. no flashing lights nor sounds. ....does not instantly zip across the sky ..but speed up quite quickly at times.

I did have someone come out to verify the movement I saw on my second sighting... which was a relief (they could not explain it )

I found the the fainter stars are the ones that are more likely to be this kind of object.

ps200306

Curiouser and curiouser

maguffin

auzworld wrote: »

I would rule out lazer pointers as I feel a lazer point would dart across the sky too quickly and not be kept steady very easily. this has a steady speed generally but and accelerate quicker .. and stops dead... no shaking .. no flashing lights nor sounds. ....does not instantly zip across the sky ..but speed up quite quickly at times.

I did have someone come out to verify the movement I saw on my second sighting... which was a relief (they could not explain it )

I found the the fainter stars are the ones that are more likely to be this kind of object.

Agreed!!

This is an example of a Laser Pointer being used to point at the moon....as you can see it has a distinct and very visible beam, and doesn't produce a spot (it only does this if shone upon a surface):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E20ZEFS_7FY

so...not a laser pointer then!!

Duff

Seen this phenomena before as well. About 2 years ago I was out my back garden about 10 p.m getting some coal from the bunker and happened to look up and seen what I thought at first was a satellite. It was on a fixed trajectory at first then suddenly stopped, changed speed and took off at a right angle. Stopped again, made some zig zag movements and then took off at a speed that was too fast for my eyes to follow. No idea what it was. This was in North East Leinster out in the countryside with no light pollution so I got a good clear view of it.

Tragamin2k2

saw these a few times, first time i was about 7 and there was 2 of them.darted around with each other, then away from each other, then came together really fast and vanished. really freaked me out

Popoutman

In ~25 years of stargazing and paying attention to the sky and its phenomena, I've not seen anything that fits this description.

As I've an interest in both aviation and weather phenomena as well as the stargazing, I have a habit of paying attention to the skies on a regular basis. I've seen some unusual things over the years but I've seen nothing that could be described as the above.

Responding to give another data point, even if it's a negative one.

From the descriptions, it sounds as these are most likely local to the observer, either in the immediate vicinity or even effects within the eyes. Otherwise there would be more reports from experienced astronomers, and footage from meteor camera which would easily pick up things like these as described. The lack of these suggests that what is being perceived is not at any great distance.

Zubeneschamali

Popoutman wrote: »

In ~25 years of stargazing and paying attention to the sky and its phenomena, I've not seen anything that fits this description.

Me neither. The only things which look like stars but move are satellites and space junk in orbit, and they can't do turns or circles, or dart about generally.

Even a helicopter would be hard pressed to "dart". It could be something deceptively close like birds or insects lit from below.