Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ferroli SYS 10-23 problem

Options
  • 08-01-2013 12:34pm
    #1
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭


    I have a Ferroli 10-23 sys that is banging when it runs. I have been told it is more than likely a blocked heat exchanger. A new heat exchanger is approx 500euro for the part. Can the old one be descaled? It is in a very hard water area and is more than likely scale. I can take it out myself. Thanks.


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    I can take it out myself.
    No you cannot. By law it must be carried out by a registered gas installer (RGI). Prison sentence plus €15,000 fine if you do. It will be copped by RGI on next service and reported on cert that is sent back to RGII.


  • Options
    #3
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    No you cannot. By law it must be carried out by a registered gas installer (RGI). Prison sentence plus €15,000 fine if you do. It will be copped by RGI on next service and reported on cert that is sent back to RGII.

    Thanks for the law advice. Any help with the initial problem. I have an RGI taking it out. I did not mean me literally. He is advising a new one but i reckon its worth descaling.


  • Options
    #4
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »

    Thanks for the law advice. Any help with the initial problem. I have an RGI taking it out. I did not mean me literally. He is advising a new one but i reckon its worth descaling.
    That is not what you said!

    It is hit & miss whether you can successfully descale a heat exchanger. Usually with DS40 in conjunction with a power flusher overnight.
    I would take your RGI's advice as he is one standing in front of the boiler examining it.


  • Options
    #5
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    That is not what you said!

    It is hit & miss whether you can successfully descale a heat exchanger. Usually with DS40 in conjunction with a power flusher overnight.
    I would take your RGI's advice as he is one standing in front of the boiler examining it.

    OK. Removed the exchanger flushed and soaked for 24hours in vinegar. Installed and boiler is working fine. Saved 471 euro in parts alone.


  • Options
    #6
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »

    OK. Removed the exchanger flushed and soaked for 24hours in vinegar. Installed and boiler is working fine. Saved 471 euro in parts alone.
    Who removed it?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Who removed it?

    Friend is an RGI so mates rates. He reckons a minor blockage can cause it. About an hour and half labour each way. In fairness its not worth the hassle for an RGI to spend two days messing with a heat exchanger that might or might not unblock. Better off getting a new one.


  • Options
    #8
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »

    Friend is an RGI so mates rates. He reckons a minor blockage can cause it. About an hour and half labour each way. In fairness its not worth the hassle for an RGI to spend two days messing with a heat exchanger that might or might not unblock. Better off getting a new one.
    Did he issue you with an RGII Cert 3 following the repair?


  • Options
    #9
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Did he issue you with an RGII Cert 3 following the repair?

    Maybe if i sent on you on his details you could discuss with him if he is a competent RGI. I asked a simple question and you seem to be more interested in the qualifications of the RGI. Please keep it on topic. To summarise for anyone else who has a similar problem. Yes.. a heat exchanger can be descaled unblocked but does require a considerable amount of time and effort. I think this thread can now be closed.


  • Options
    #10
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Maybe if i sent on you on his details you could discuss with him if he is a competent RGI. I asked a simple question and you seem to be more interested in the qualifications of the RGI. Please keep it on topic. To summarise for anyone else who has a similar problem. Yes.. a heat exchanger can be descaled unblocked but does require a considerable amount of time and effort. I think this thread can now be closed.

    Well a descale with vinegar says a lot about their qualifications and their professionalism, congrats on your savings. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #11
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »

    Maybe if i sent on you on his details you could discuss with him if he is a competent RGI. I asked a simple question and you seem to be more interested in the qualifications of the RGI. Please keep it on topic. To summarise for anyone else who has a similar problem. Yes.. a heat exchanger can be descaled unblocked but does require a considerable amount of time and effort. I think this thread can now be closed.
    I did not know you are a Moderator!
    No, I am not interested in his details but was more interested in IF you worked illegally on a gas boiler as you distinctly said:
    jsd1004 wrote: »
    I can take it out myself.
    And
    jsd1004 wrote: »

    OK. Removed the exchanger flushed and soaked for 24hours in vinegar. Installed and boiler is working fine. Saved 471 euro in parts alone.

    If an RGI carried out the work, excellent, as a Cert 3 will have been issued and copied to RGII & the system has been tested to be operating safely.
    However, if you carried out the works yourself, well need I say more....
    Somebody who has an RGI there doing the work would never naturally use the terms you have as the RGI would not be getting you to find out how to do it!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    shane0007 wrote: »
    I did not know you are a Moderator!
    No, I am not interested in his details but was more interested in IF you worked illegally on a gas boiler as you distinctly said:


    And


    If an RGI carried out the work, excellent, as a Cert 3 will have been issued and copied to RGII & the system has been tested to be operating safely.
    However, if you carried out the works yourself, well need I say more....
    Somebody who has an RGI there doing the work would never naturally use the terms you have as the RGI would not be getting you to find out how to do it!
    Me thinks the RGI was imaginary!!


  • Options
    #13
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Dtp79 wrote: »
    Me thinks the RGI was imaginary!!
    Aye and there is nothing like gas to give somebody a wake up call!
    Lets hope he does not find out the hard way.


  • Options
    #14
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    I did not know you are a Moderator!
    No, I am not interested in his details but was more interested in IF you worked illegally on a gas boiler as you distinctly said:


    And


    If an RGI carried out the work, excellent, as a Cert 3 will have been issued and copied to RGII & the system has been tested to be operating safely.
    However, if you carried out the works yourself, well need I say more....
    Somebody who has an RGI there doing the work would never naturally use the terms you have as the RGI would not be getting you to find out how to do it!

    I can assure you an RGI has removed the heat exchanger and handed it to me. I was initially going to install a new boiler as a new boiler was in the region of 650 euro and not much more than a heat exchanger. I am a qualified BMeng but would not go near a gas boiler as i do not have a hands on mechanical background. I do however have a wealth of experience in general problem solving and know that limescale and any strong acid (vinegar hcl citric acid) will disolve alkaline based deposits. FYI the supplier of the new gas boiler had offered to source me a non reg plumber to install a direct replacement boiler for 150euro as my RGI does not do full install (just servicing and maintenance). So contrary to what you might think there does not seem to be a shortage of plumbers to do RGI work. MY RGI knew the guy and said yes he would put it in and actually said the guy is a good plumber and knows his stuff.


  • Options
    #15
    Robbie.G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭Robbie.G


    With that last statement you've open a whole big can of worms good luck


  • Options
    #16
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    I can assure you an RGI has removed the heat exchanger and handed it to me. I was initially going to install a new boiler as a new boiler was in the region of 650 euro and not much more than a heat exchanger. I am a qualified BMeng but would not go near a gas boiler as i do not have a hands on mechanical background. I do however have a wealth of experience in general problem solving and know that limescale and any strong acid (vinegar hcl citric acid) will disolve alkaline based deposits. FYI the supplier of the new gas boiler had offered to source me a non reg plumber to install a direct replacement boiler for 150euro as my RGI does not do full install (just servicing and maintenance). So contrary to what you might think there does not seem to be a shortage of plumbers to do RGI work. MY RGI knew the guy and said yes he would put it in and actually said the guy is a good plumber and knows his stuff.

    So who put it back.


  • Options
    #17
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    jsd1004 wrote: »

    I can assure you an RGI has removed the heat exchanger and handed it to me. I was initially going to install a new boiler as a new boiler was in the region of 650 euro and not much more than a heat exchanger. I am a qualified BMeng but would not go near a gas boiler as i do not have a hands on mechanical background. I do however have a wealth of experience in general problem solving and know that limescale and any strong acid (vinegar hcl citric acid) will disolve alkaline based deposits. FYI the supplier of the new gas boiler had offered to source me a non reg plumber to install a direct replacement boiler for 150euro as my RGI does not do full install (just servicing and maintenance). So contrary to what you might think there does not seem to be a shortage of plumbers to do RGI work. MY RGI knew the guy and said yes he would put it in and actually said the guy is a good plumber and knows his stuff.
    So you have in your possession a cert 3 from the RGI then?


  • Options
    #18
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    I can assure you an RGI has removed the heat exchanger and handed it to me. I was initially going to install a new boiler as a new boiler was in the region of 650 euro and not much more than a heat exchanger. I am a qualified BMeng but would not go near a gas boiler as i do not have a hands on mechanical background. I do however have a wealth of experience in general problem solving and know that limescale and any strong acid (vinegar hcl citric acid) will disolve alkaline based deposits. FYI the supplier of the new gas boiler had offered to source me a non reg plumber to install a direct replacement boiler for 150euro as my RGI does not do full install (just servicing and maintenance). So contrary to what you might think there does not seem to be a shortage of plumbers to do RGI work. MY RGI knew the guy and said yes he would put it in and actually said the guy is a good plumber and knows his stuff.
    Right where do I start.....
    Well first off, what supplier gave you that advice? That statement really p****s me off. He should be shut down & never let supply even a screw for a gas boiler.
    Next off, your RGI stands over this guys gas works? Well, that really says a lot for your RGI, doesn't it? It is not only illegal but extremely dangerous. Even you have a duty of care to the persons surrounding you. You well know it is a criminal offence to work on a gas appliance (even opening the boiler) if you are not a registered gas installer. This is for good reason. A gas explosion will not only take down your house, but also any building surrounding yours. It can kill & mame without prejudice, old & young & if I knew your installation was carried out by an unregistered person whether it be you or some fruitloop, considered it reported to both RGII and the gas supplier as an immediate unsafe & dangerous installation.

    But hey, what do I know, we are in a recession, and saving a few bucks is worth more than a life nowadays!

    With regard to your so called successful flush, it may or may not be. You may have got rid of it, or the bones of it is probably still there. It depends on the exchanger whether every bit can be got at. Is there iron oxide mixed with the scale? Are all the exchanger hotspots free or just skimmed? Usually not.
    Why was there scale there in the first instance? If you have not addressed this, it won't be long before it is back and you will be getting back your team of "experts" again!


  • Options
    #19
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Right where do I start.....
    Well first off, what supplier gave you that advice? That statement really p****s me off. He should be shut down & never let supply even a screw for a gas boiler.
    Next off, your RGI stands over this guys gas works? Well, that really says a lot for your RGI, doesn't it? It is not only illegal but extremely dangerous. Even you have a duty of care to the persons surrounding you. You well know it is a criminal offence to work on a gas appliance (even opening the boiler) if you are not a registered gas installer. This is for good reason. A gas explosion will not only take down your house, but also any building surrounding yours. It can kill & mame without prejudice, old & young & if I knew your installation was carried out by an unregistered person whether it be you or some fruitloop, considered it reported to both RGII and the gas supplier as an immediate unsafe & dangerous installation.

    But hey, what do I know, we are in a recession, and saving a few bucks is worth more than a life nowadays!

    With regard to your so called successful flush, it may or may not be. You may have got rid of it, or the bones of it is probably still there. It depends on the exchanger whether every bit can be got at. Is there iron oxide mixed with the scale? Are all the exchanger hotspots free or just skimmed? Usually not.
    Why was there scale there in the first instance? If you have not addressed this, it won't be long before it is back and you will be getting back your team of "experts" again!

    Jesus get a grip drama queen. I am sitting here with the RGI. The RGI installed it certified the boiler and agreed happy days it works. He said it might clog again the boiler might stop but he/it is not going to kill anyone even if it does. You know that the heat exchanger can be removed with just removing the gas connection to the burner. There is only gas when the gas valve is open. The only possibility of a gas leak at that connection is when the gas valve is open and then not very likely. So less of the blow the whole neighbours kids up please. I am fully aware as he is that the heat exchanger may block in the future again.


  • Options
    #20
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Jesus get a grip drama queen. I am sitting here with the RGI. The RGI installed it certified the boiler and agreed happy days it works. He said it might clog again the boiler might stop but he/it is not going to kill anyone even if it does. You know that the heat exchanger can be removed with just removing the gas connection to the burner. There is only gas when the gas valve is open. The only possibility of a gas leak at that connection is when the gas valve is open and then not very likely. So less of the blow the whole neighbours kids up please. I am fully aware as he is that the heat exchanger may block in the future again.

    Less of the name calling. I did not take that immature attitude with you & I expect the same respect back.

    I was referring to non-RGI's working on a gas appliance, such as the guy your RGI recommends to work on a gas appliance that is also not registered! How would he know or you for that matter if you disturbed a joint, or did not seal the flue correctly or any number of things you could do to a gas boiler that creates an issue, both gas & flue.

    I notice both you and him are keeping stum about your comments about your supplier and installer. Perhaps he should discuss those recommendations with RGII.


  • Options
    #21
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    jsd1004 wrote: »

    Jesus get a grip drama queen. I am sitting here with the RGI. The RGI installed it certified the boiler and agreed happy days it works. He said it might clog again the boiler might stop but he/it is not going to kill anyone even if it does. You know that the heat exchanger can be removed with just removing the gas connection to the burner. There is only gas when the gas valve is open. The only possibility of a gas leak at that connection is when the gas valve is open and then not very likely. So less of the blow the whole neighbours kids up please. I am fully aware as he is that the heat exchanger may block in the future again.
    Not very likely???
    Is that what you'd say to a judge if something did go wrong?? It's backward attitudes like yours that ends up killing people


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Jesus get a grip drama queen. I am sitting here with the RGI. The RGI installed it certified the boiler and agreed happy days it works. He said it might clog again the boiler might stop but he/it is not going to kill anyone even if it does. You know that the heat exchanger can be removed with just removing the gas connection to the burner. There is only gas when the gas valve is open. The only possibility of a gas leak at that connection is when the gas valve is open and then not very likely. So less of the blow the whole neighbours kids up please. I am fully aware as he is that the heat exchanger may block in the future again.


    Just so you are crystal clear.

    If you are not a Registered Gas Installer, it is illegal to do any work on the boiler, any. Be it electrics or on the wet side. Basically, you can not remove the cover.

    Of course no one can tell you what to do in your home, unless of course you get caught out for whatever reason. Insurance companies are getting better at this.


  • Options
    #23
    anthonyos
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭anthonyos


    id rather have a non rgi plumber install my boiler than an rgi brick layer or a taxi man


  • Options
    #24
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    anthonyos wrote: »
    id rather have a non rgi plumber install my boiler than an rgi brick layer or a taxi man


    Then you would have an uncertified installation. No warranty or insurance claim if something went wrong.

    I see your point and all legit guys would agree but why not go for a RGII plumber? Ass completely covered then.


  • Options
    #25
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Would you if it was LPG?

    At least the bricklayer could rebuild your house if he knocked it and the insurance company would pay out!


  • Options
    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OP just to clarify, boilers can go bang or produce high levels of carbon monoxide, they are more inclined to do this after they have been poked at I find.

    The ease at which bad things can happen is frightening at times, sadly, it can be over something silly being done or not being done at the time, this knowledge leads to grumpy RGI's like me who get grumpier when there's even the suggestion of the inexperienced working on gas.

    The only thing protecting a RGI from the powers that be is the cert they must leave, hence the importance of a cert for the RGI and the cert protects the householder if ever the need arises.

    It takes a large amount of paranoia to work safely on gas and a sprinkling of OCD, unfortunately there the bits I find that are missing when the inexperienced work on gas.


  • Options
    #27
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Youd be suprised what turns up with a basic soundness test.

    And the proper gauge is about 100 euro. All the rest its very hard to see a small drop


  • Options
    #28
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Less of the name calling. I did not take that immature attitude with you & I expect the same respect back.

    I was referring to non-RGI's working on a gas appliance, such as the guy your RGI recommends to work on a gas appliance that is also not registered! How would he know or you for that matter if you disturbed a joint, or did not seal the flue correctly or any number of things you could do to a gas boiler that creates an issue, both gas & flue.

    I notice both you and him are keeping stum about your comments about your supplier and installer. Perhaps he should discuss those recommendations with RGII.

    Just to be clear my RGI said he knew the plumber and he is a good plumber. He did not recommend him or endorse him to do gas work. Aside from that just because someone gets a fas cert does not make them a good installer. RGI's can blow the neighbours house up too.


  • Options
    #29
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Just to be clear my RGI said he knew the plumber and he is a good plumber. He did not recommend him or endorse him to do gas work. Aside from that just because someone gets a fas cert does not make them a good installer. RGI's can blow the neighbours house up too.

    but there insurance covers them to blow someones house up :D


  • Options
    #30
    gifted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,891 ✭✭✭gifted


    Where can I get popcorn around here?..some great entertainment here :D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Just to be clear my RGI said he knew the plumber and he is a good plumber. He did not recommend him or endorse him to do gas work. Aside from that just because someone gets a fas cert does not make them a good installer. RGI's can blow the neighbours house up too.


    Might be worth throwing a system cleanser in to prevent blockages in the future or even a power flush if funds allow.


Advertisement