N11 Glen of the Downs warning

bido

axe2grind wrote: »

Only 2 there when I passed and a 3rd en route when I got to Kilmac.
Ambulance arrived when I passed and both lanes were still open.

I find it difficult to fathom why there should be accidents there so frequently.

Speed and bad road design :mad:

spank_inferno

axe2grind wrote: »

Only 2 there when I passed and a 3rd en route when I got to Kilmac.
Ambulance arrived when I passed and both lanes were still open.

I find it difficult to fathom why there should be accidents there so frequently.

The camber / directional tilt of the road is wrong

Bad design or construction.

RosieJoe

spank_inferno wrote: »

The camber / directional tilt of the road is wrong

Bad design or construction.

Is that "in your opinion" or based on an engineering analysis

The biggest cause of accidents on that section of road is Driver error most likely caused by speeding and/or inability to read road conditions IMO

loyatemu

RosieJoe wrote: »

Is that "in your opinion" or based on an engineering analysis

The biggest cause of accidents on that section of road is Driver error most likely caused by speeding and/or inability to read road conditions IMO

Obviously people should tailor their driving to the conditions but if there are a lot of accidents concentrated in a short stretch then the road engineering is probably deficient.

RosieJoe

loyatemu wrote: »

Obviously people should tailor their driving to the conditions but if there are a lot of accidents concentrated in a short stretch then the road engineering is probably deficient.

The thing about the bend coming into/out of the glen, both directions the speed limit was set to 80kph when it was first opened.

There was then a review done and it was deemed that the speed limit going northbound was to be increased to 100kph as the road allowed this. I fail to see how now, due to a few accidents, the road can be declared as badly designed/engineered.

spank_inferno

RosieJoe wrote: »

Is that "in your opinion" or based on an engineering analysis

The biggest cause of accidents on that section of road is Driver error most likely caused by speeding and/or inability to read road conditions IMO

Think of a nascar race track.

As you curve left the track banks up on the right..... put simply the road should grade slightly up on the right for a left curve.

There is an 80 kph limit southbound because at the curve this compensating gradiant is not there.
Its flat or worse tilted in the wrong direction slightly.

So at speed, it becomes trickier to control the vehicle on a curve if that compensating gradiant is not there.

I was on a driving holiday in NZ this year for a month.
Every road, dual or single carriageway had compensating gradiants for every curve..... dissapointed we arent quite as clever.


So is the road badly designed... yes.
Should drivers be more savvy wrt the oncoming road.... also yes!

RosieJoe

spank_inferno wrote: »

Think of a nascar race track.

As you curve left the track banks up on the right..... put simply the road should grade slightly up on the right for a left curve.

There is an 80 kph limit southbound because at the curve this compensating gradiant is not there.
Its flat or worse tilted in the wrong direction slightly.

So at speed, it becomes trickier to control the vehicle on a curve if that compensating gradiant is not there.

I was on a driving holiday in NZ this year for a month.
Every road, dual or single carriageway had compensating gradiants for every curve..... dissapointed we arent quite as clever.


So is the road badly designed... yes.
Should drivers be more savvy wrt the oncoming road.... also yes!

Actually, the southbound limit is 80kph because of the tightness/acuteness of the bend. This was explained when Wicklow Co Co set the northbound limit to 100kph but left the southbound limit at 80kph.

spank_inferno

RosieJoe wrote: »

Actually, the southbound limit is 80kph because of the tightness/acuteness of the bend. This was explained when Wicklow Co Co set the northbound limit to 100kph but left the southbound limit at 80kph.

Well they werent going to admit to a construction / design flaw now were they?

RosieJoe

New list of recommendations on speed limits was published today, indo article here.

This is being discussed in the motors forum but I had to laugh at this one

So-called ‘silly signs’ - such as a 100kmh speed limit on a dangerous corner where a lower speed would be more appropriate – will be removed.

Were the Auditors reading this thread?

RosieJoe

I see a bit of work being carried out over the last few days. Council depot on the corner is getting a new fence and the road has a anti-skid layer added.

Stallingrad

RosieJoe wrote: »

I see a bit of work being carried out over the last few days. Council depot on the corner is getting a new fence and the road has a anti-skid layer added.

There was a really bad crash there a few days ago involving a number of cars, think they finally realized that some changes had to be made.

StonedParadoX

so this is what their doing then?

its not anything to do building a house or anything?

my mate was convinced it was that!

its just making that area a safer place?

RosieJoe

Stallingrad wrote: »

There was a really bad crash there a few days ago involving a number of cars, think they finally realized that some changes had to be made.

I knew that, I was just commenting on the work they are doing to "improve" the corner safety.

The Real B-man

RosieJoe wrote: »

I see a bit of work being carried out over the last few days. Council depot on the corner is getting a new fence and the road has a anti-skid layer added.

Yes i noticed this Yesterday its a Machine that basically scraps a thing layer of Tarmac off evenly to improve Traction they have used this from Eden Gate Roundabout to Kilcoole and Works well without the Cost of Resurfacing

whizbang

IMO one of the major reasons for the number of accidents is the lighting.

Southbound, there is a ridiculous amount of street lighting at the Glenview Hotel junction, which serves only to increase the speed of traffic approaching the bend.

Approaching the bend, the lighting drops to zero in less than 50 Meters, causing drivers to reach for headlights etc, at the moment of turning.
Coupled with very poor reflectivity on the central concrete barrier, its like going into a black hole for some drivers.
Further down the road, the difference in height of the carriageways means drivers are looking directly into oncoming headlights, causing sudden braking. this then ripples back to the traffic negotiating the corner.

Northbound, the sudden opening up of the valley, the increased lighting after the bend, the junction on the bend, all seem to lull drivers into thinking the road is widening out, rather than turning.

It would be a simple matter to fit reflectors onto the concrete barrier, and ideally raise the height by about 25cm.
Also graduate the lighting changes by turning off a few streetlights.

.243

There is nothing wrong with the road,its driver error and complancy ,i use it several times a day and have used it in all conditions,if there was something wrong with the road there would be accidents on it on a daily basis,ive seen everything from the emergency services to boy racers take those corners well in excess of the speed limit thats put on it and still they magically are able to come out the other side without causing a crash

miller50841

I drive along there a lot and find heading South very badly designed as there is no room for error whatsoever.

There are crashes there a lot and they skimmed the surface heading North towards Dublin but on the other side.

Inexperienced drivers, speed, badly maintained cars eg. Tires, brakes, suspension, defective lights not aligned correctly or lamps blown, not considering weather conditions such as strong gusts, rain and ice.

I have a few recommendations where a metal sheet/screen could be erected on the concrete barrier to stop oncoming lights dazzling drivers as the road height difference also why can't anti skid surface be laid to increase grip also better road reflectors also rumble strips as a early warning to wake up even the best of drivers and also the ones that say they know the road well.

When it is raining dark and windy driving into this turn can be very difficult and put you off a bit.
I really hate the way the road is so narrow as you are right up against the barrier.

I am sure some points I have made have been mentioned but no harm in bringing them up.
People should write to the council and mention their worries.

whizbang

I'm continually amazed at the number of drivers, who obliviously trundle along the outside lane, (Southbound)
then to quite suddenly decide they need to be in the left lane, and try to pull in exactly at the apex of the corner.

Alun

whizbang wrote: »

I'm continually amazed at the number of drivers, who obliviously trundle along the outside lane, (Southbound)
then to quite suddenly decide they need to be in the left lane, and try to pull in exactly at the apex of the corner.

I agree, it's pure bad driving, nothing else. There might be a case for some barriers to prevent headlight blinding, but otherwise there's nothing wrong with the layout or design at all in my opinion.

RosieJoe

There was another crash there today. OH passed it going northbound at lunchtime. Car upside down and a horse ibox on its side were 2 of cars/items involved

sso

RosieJoe wrote: »

There was another crash there today. OH passed it going northbound at lunchtime. Car upside down and a horse ibox on its side were 2 of cars/items involved

I was there. It was a single car accident. Driver aquaplaned into barrier and flipped car. No other cars involved. Driver survived thankfully.

Stallingrad

Anyone notice the new armco heading North where they have just erected that new fence? If you loose control there you're going to be impaled on the ends of new barrier as they didn't curve it into that entrance.

loyatemu

Stallingrad wrote: »

Anyone notice the new armco heading North where they have just erected that new fence? If you loose control there you're going to be impaled on the ends of new barrier as they didn't curve it into that entrance.

all new Armco barriers seem to end square-on - it must be the current design, I assume its been tested.

Stallingrad

loyatemu wrote: »

all new Armco barriers seem to end square-on - it must be the current design, I assume its been tested.

No doubt, a curved barrier may bounce you back out into the road which could end badly too, still wouldn't want to slide, side on, into that barrier.

zanador

A crash going south bound early the morning. Perhaps big flashing danger signs are needed?

Stallingrad

Remedial works carried out yesterday and the entrance southbound, abrading the surface and adding small reflective squares to the barrier.

RosieJoe

Stallingrad wrote: »

Remedial works carried out yesterday and the entrance southbound, abrading the surface and adding small reflective squares to the barrier.

Saw that, now we can drive even quicker around the bend

Batesy

Those reflective squares are very distracting if nothing else.

I must say unless it's a drivers very first time driving this road I don't get how there are so many incidents there.

miller50841

Batesy wrote: »

Those reflective squares are very distracting if nothing else.

I must say unless it's a drivers very first time driving this road I don't get how there are so many incidents there.

Many many reasons there are crashes there,

Few examples would be inexperienced drivers, bad tyres, driving too fast for the conditions, not knowing the road and not expecting such a severe turn, getting confused going from well lit road to pitch black etc.

I am a lot happier with the latest improvements and hope it is kept in better repair from now on. I don't see the reflectors lasting long on the side wall of the concrete barriers but I do believe they will help especially with on coming car's, trucks and so on coming towards you.

fred funk }{

They've now installed a couple of cameras looking each way on the northbound side.

They're clearly looking to see how so many accidents are happening there.