Is it time to stop giving to third world countries and use the money here.

Prometheus

Should we still send money to other countries, when things are far from good in our own backyard. India for instance has its own space exploration agency!
Should we feed and clothe our own needy first?

lazygal

Dey tuk our space programme.

Cavehill Red

We are borrowing money to give to tinpot dictators who can then buy weapons to oppress their people, and we are doing so while cutting the basic provision to the most deprived and vulnerable in our own society.
The only way this could make even less sense is if the whole thing was overseen by a transvestite donkey in a lizard mask.

charlie_says

Cavehill Red wrote: »

We are borrowing money to give to tinpot dictators who can then buy weapons to oppress their people, and we are doing so while cutting the basic provision to the most deprived and vulnerable in our own society.
The only way this could make even less sense is if the whole thing was overseen by a transvestite donkey in a lizard mask.

Hehehe

jessiejam

Prometheus wrote: »

Should we still send money to other countries, when things are far from good in our own backyard. India for instance has its own space exploration agency!
Should we feed and clothe our own needy first?

If it wasn't going on foreign aid it certainly wouldn't be providing clothing and food to our needy. It would be going into the banks.

lazygal

Cavehill Red wrote: »

.The only way this could make even less sense is if the whole thing was overseen by a transvestite donkey in a lizard mask.

That's next on my to do list.

Biggins

Why can't we all just give our money to North Korea I say!

A great bunch of lads, they are...

sure joe

sure didnt eamon gilmore give millions of our money to some african that he got an email from. he later said something about how it could have happened anybody. poor eamo was sure he had won the lotto and would double his money. he could then put the taxpayers money back and add the millions to what him and his wife already have.

Death and Taxes

Again, we have this thread every couple of weeks!

halfpintofmilk

We have given Africa trillions in aid since live aid,and charities for them were set up before then giving them millions..Although it didnt kick off much since live aid promotional tours of them..
I would say we should look after our own homeless and needy first,i am a firm believer charity begins at home.

midlands paranormal researcher

i agree to a point but or however charity begins at home and TDs need to look at them selfs and give back some money to the people.....just thinking wasnt it ghanda we gave 4 million too and was used in the wrong way

midlands paranormal researcher

i agree to a point but or however charity begins at home and TDs need to look at them selfs and give back some money to the people.....just thinking wasnt it ghanda we gave 4 million too and was used in the wrong way

Biggins

WileyCoyote wrote: »

...we have this thread every couple of weeks!

Its that time of the month again!

The King of Moo

The needy in the Third World are much needier than the needy here so no.

mattjack

midlands paranormal researcher wrote: »

i agree to a point but or however charity begins at home and TDs need to look at them selfs and give back some money to the people.....just thinking wasnt it ghanda we gave 4 million too and was used in the wrong way

I didn't even know there was a country called ghanda.

halfpintofmilk

The King of Moo wrote: »

The needy in the Third World are much needier than the needy here so no.

Charity begins at home,i dont see africans returning the favour being honest.

Biggins

mattjack wrote: »

I didn't even know there was a country called ghanda.

:eek:

Seriously?

(yea, I know your jesting)

ArmaniJeanss

Ghana merged with Uganda on Friday, Ghanda is the new name.

mattjack

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Ghana merged with Uganda on Friday, Ghanda is the new name.

I've seen a rubber band, a horse fly but never ever heard of ghanda...

Death and Taxes

Topic done to death
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056828220&page=13

Biggins

mattjack wrote: »

I've seen a rubber band, a horse fly but never ever heard of ghanda...

First name Mahatma...

Tiddlypeeps

The stupidity of the whole situation astounds me. We are borrowing money just to send it to countries that squander it on weapons and warmongering.

If there was significant evidence to suggest that the money we send out in aid was actually helping the situation in developed countries then an argument could be made for continuing to send aid. I would still be on the side of stopping it until we get back on our feet but at least the situation wouldn't be as black and white as it is now.

repsol

mattjack wrote: »

I didn't even know there was a country called ghanda.

If there is they are probably getting money from us!

The King of Moo

halfpintofmilk wrote: »

Charity begins at home,i dont see africans returning the favour being honest.

Charity might begin at home but it doesn't have to end there.

And expecting someone to "return the favour" isn't how charity works. Generally if you give someone aid, they're not in a position to "return the favour," and if you're truly charitable you don't expect them to.

And we're not in a bad enough position to need aid from most African countries.

Cavehill Red

Also, crucially, AID DOESN'T WORK AND ACTUALLY DESTROYS AFRICAN ECONOMIES AND LIVES.
All it achieves is nice colonial jobs for the aid workers.
Don't believe me? Ask Dambisa Moyo, an African economist for the World Bank.

crockholm

Ireland donates millions- nice warm fuzzy feeling of charity
China donates millions-gets mining rights
hmmmmmmmm

the purple tin

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

The stupidity of the whole situation astounds me. We are borrowing money just to send it to countries that squander it on weapons and warmongering.

If there was significant evidence to suggest that the money we send out in aid was actually helping the situation in developed countries then an argument could be made for continuing to send aid. I would still be on the side of stopping it until we get back on our feet but at least the situation wouldn't be as black and white as it is now.

We could save time if we just donated our money straight to the arms manufacturers.

mattjack

crockholm wrote: »

Ireland donates millions- nice warm fuzzy feeling of charity
China donates millions-gets mining rights
hmmmmmmmm

Is China near the country called Ghanda ?

The King of Moo

mattjack wrote: »

Is China near the country called Ghanda ?

Sure, how do you think Ghanda bears got to China?

Tiddlypeeps

The King of Moo wrote: »

The needy in the Third World are much needier than the needy here so no.

Why can't people who feel this way just be happy with sending their own money off to third world countries?

Why do I and others who disagree with the concept have to foot the bill?

crockholm

Ghanda's king/warlord/pm/witchdoctor has promised china that she has no equal ally, hail Ghanda

The King of Moo

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Why can't people who feel this way just be happy with sending their own money off to third world countries?

Why do I and others who disagree with the concept have to foot the bill?

Because people are lazy sometimes, and might not bother.
Many people are also selfish and would choose to give no aid to anyone anywhere if they had a choice.
Frankly, I don't think most people are informed enough to choose how their taxes are spent.

I've no problem with reducing the amount spent on foreign aid and increasing the amount spent on helping the needy in Ireland.
I'd also like to see all aid go to the right people, and be intended to foster sustainable development.

But I hope we always continue to help those who are much, much worse off than the worst off Irish people.

BrokenArrows

These countries have gotten huge sums of money from all over the world and not much has changed. So yes I would agree with cutting off the funding.

asherbassad

Cavehill Red wrote: »

We are borrowing money to give to tinpot dictators who can then buy weapons to oppress their people, and we are doing so while cutting the basic provision to the most deprived and vulnerable in our own society.
The only way this could make even less sense is if the whole thing was overseen by a transvestite donkey in a lizard mask.

Are we now?
How much money does Ireland borrow and give to dictators?

I don't see too many of our so called needy up in arms when they buy their garments from Penneys and Dunnes.....garments that were produced in Asian sweatshops by women who have a lot less than the most miserable of our deprived.

A simple example would be America whose public really believe that they are the most generous with foreign aid. When asked what percentage of GDP the US donate in foreign aid, 10%, 5% or 1%, most respondents to the question responded 10%.

The real figure is 0.1%. That's one tenth of 1 percent. So in simple terms if America earned $100 then their foreign donation would be one dime. And most of that foreign aid goes with the stipulation that it be spent on US products.

SO.....how much does Ireland give. Probably just as fcuking stingy.
We bleat on about giving a few scraps to the pestilence stricken multitudes yet I don't hear anyone clamouring to give back the billions we received from Brussels to get our roads upgraded from boithrin status.....but I did hear complaints about giving to Latvia or Poland when they joined our cosy little EU clique.


The Norwegians are the most generous in the world with their foreign aid yet I've yet to hear one of them either complain or brag about it.


Can't give something with a good heart? Then don't give it at all.

Cavehill Red

asherbassad wrote: »

Can't give something with a good heart? Then don't give it at all.

Yes, that's what I'd like. Thanks for agreeing.
Also,which dictators? Pretty much all of them.

sure joe

the only money they should recieve is to fund permanent sterilisation. a few years back was looking at trocaire box on the front was an african woman with a baby, on the back it said something about struggling to feed her five children. heres a mad idea if you cant feed them dont have them.

mattjack

asherbassad wrote: »

Are we now?
How much money does Ireland borrow and give to dictators?

I don't see too many of our so called needy up in arms when they buy their garments from Penneys and Dunnes.....garments that were produced in Asian sweatshops by women who have a lot less than the most miserable of our deprived.

A simple example would be America whose public really believe that they are the most generous with foreign aid. When asked what percentage of GDP the US donate in foreign aid, 10%, 5% or 1%, most respondents to the question responded 10%.

The real figure is 0.1%. That's one tenth of 1 percent. So in simple terms if America earned $100 then their foreign donation would be one dime. And most of that foreign aid goes with the stipulation that it be spent on US products.

SO.....how much does Ireland give. Probably just as fcuking stingy.
We bleat on about giving a few scraps to the pestilence stricken multitudes yet I don't hear anyone clamouring to give back the billions we received from Brussels to get our roads upgraded from boithrin status.....but I did hear complaints about giving to Latvia or Poland when they joined our cosy little EU clique.


The Norwegians are the most generous in the world with their foreign aid yet I've yet to hear one of them either complain or brag about it.


Can't give something with a good heart? Then don't give it at all.

how much do we give ?

Nodin

sure joe wrote: »

the only money they should recieve is to fund permanent sterilisation. a few years back was looking at trocaire box on the front was an african woman with a baby, on the back it said something about struggling to feed her five children. heres a mad idea if you cant feed them dont have them.

You know not all aid is in the form of food....?

Madam_X

Is it literally a case of "We're in debt here but let's send loads of aid money to other countries anyway" though? Genuine question.

sure joe

Nodin wrote: »

You know not all aid is in the form of food....?

yes. whats your point

Nodin

sure joe wrote: »

yes. whats your point

You implied a simplistic scenario where shortage of food was linked to overpopulation.

Cavehill Red

mattjack wrote: »

how much do we give ?

Too fucking much, given that we're borrowing all of it.
Let me break it down. We're the eighth most generous per capita donors on Earth. We gave 636 million to Irish AID for ODA in 2011, which was about 2% of all taxes we took in. That's up from 142 million euro in 1996.
In percentage terms, we give 0.54% compared to 0.29% (Greece) or 0.35% (Germany).
It could have been worse. Remember when Bertie was striding the world in his yellow slacks promising the UN to give loads of charitable aid? The FF plan in 2007 was to donate 1.5 BILLION euro in ODA in 2012. They subsequently scaled that back to a mere half a billion in their 2010 plan. Thank God they got fecked out of office; they'd be handing the keys to our exchequer to Mozambique at that rate.

Madam_X

sure joe wrote: »

the only money they should recieve is to fund permanent sterilisation. a few years back was looking at trocaire box on the front was an african woman with a baby, on the back it said something about struggling to feed her five children. heres a mad idea if you cant feed them dont have them.

Yeh exactly - I mean it's not like she faces obstacles such as lack of education, lack of contraception, societal and cultural pressures to have children, expectation to provide sex whenever it's wished for, religious/superstitious pressures.
Perfectly sound logic to compare her to a woman in e.g. Ireland.

Cavehill Red

Madam_X wrote: »

Is it literally a case of "We're in debt here but let's send loads of aid money to other countries anyway" though? Genuine question.

Yes. ODA is routed through Irish Aid, which is directly funded from the Irish exchequer, which is itself now being funded by borrowing due to our enormous deficit, of which ODA is a part.

sure joe

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh exactly - I mean it's not like she faces obstacles such as lack of education, lack of contraception, societal and cultural pressures to have children, expectation to provide sex whenever it's wished for, religious/superstitious pressures.
Perfectly sound logic to compare her to a woman in e.g. Ireland.

simple so we quit funding them to overpopulate the world and let nature take its course

sure joe

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh exactly - I mean it's not like she faces obstacles such as lack of education, lack of contraception, societal and cultural pressures to have children, expectation to provide sex whenever it's wished for, religious/superstitious pressures.
Perfectly sound logic to compare her to a woman in e.g. Ireland.

like i said fund a sterilisation programme

Madam_X

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yes. ODA is routed through Irish Aid, which is directly funded from the Irish exchequer, which is itself now being funded by borrowing due to our enormous deficit, of which ODA is a part.

A reduction so, but not a complete cut - although definitely not countries where the money is funding the oppressive political status quo. But otherwise, while it may not be changing things on a macro level, small villages may be benefitting.
Life is a lottery - it's simple chance and luck that we were born here and not there. IMO those who have the means to have a decent standard of living shouldn't feel guilty about it, but should give back somewhat to those who don't have a chance, given that the former's good fortune is due to a mere accident of birth.

Nodin

sure joe wrote: »

simple so we quit funding them to overpopulate the world and let nature take its course

...what a charming world view.

repsol

sure joe wrote: »

like i said fund a sterilisation programme

All the do gooders will not like it Joe but it is hard to argue against.The population in Ethiopia is roughly double what it was during Live Aid.You cannot live in a place were it never rains,that is about as fertile as the surface of the moon and keep having endless kids and expect everyone else to pay year after year.If you feed a kid now you will be feeding her and her five kids in 20 years. If you cannot bear to watch the famine footage on BBC change channels or send your own money yourself.Govt money should be used in this country only

The King of Moo

repsol wrote: »

All the do gooders will not like it Joe but it is hard to argue against.The population in Ethiopia is roughly double what it was during Live Aid.You cannot live in a place were it never rains,that is about as fertile as the surface of the moon and keep having endless kids and expect everyone else to pay year after year.If you feed a kid now you will be feeding her and her five kids in 20 years. If you cannot bear to watch the famine footage on BBC change channels or send your own money yourself.Govt money should be used in this country only

Yeah, f**k them, let's all do bad!!

*kicks dog*

crockholm

I hate to say it but my compassion for the poor in these countries is nearing depletion, I gave one quarter of what was in my bank account to the ethopian famine victims of 1984-5, nearly 30 years later the bowl is still being waved, maybe its the culture,maybe we're screwing them here in the west,I dont know, anyone here spent much time in the affected countries, your input is needed