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Is it time to stop giving to third world countries and use the money here.

Prometheus

Should we still send money to other countries, when things are far from good in our own backyard. India for instance has its own space exploration agency!
Should we feed and clothe our own needy first?

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The King of Moo

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Why can't people who feel this way just be happy with sending their own money off to third world countries?

Why do I and others who disagree with the concept have to foot the bill?

Because people are lazy sometimes, and might not bother.
Many people are also selfish and would choose to give no aid to anyone anywhere if they had a choice.
Frankly, I don't think most people are informed enough to choose how their taxes are spent.

I've no problem with reducing the amount spent on foreign aid and increasing the amount spent on helping the needy in Ireland.
I'd also like to see all aid go to the right people, and be intended to foster sustainable development.

But I hope we always continue to help those who are much, much worse off than the worst off Irish people.

BrokenArrows

These countries have gotten huge sums of money from all over the world and not much has changed. So yes I would agree with cutting off the funding.

asherbassad

Cavehill Red wrote: »

We are borrowing money to give to tinpot dictators who can then buy weapons to oppress their people, and we are doing so while cutting the basic provision to the most deprived and vulnerable in our own society.
The only way this could make even less sense is if the whole thing was overseen by a transvestite donkey in a lizard mask.

Are we now?
How much money does Ireland borrow and give to dictators?

I don't see too many of our so called needy up in arms when they buy their garments from Penneys and Dunnes.....garments that were produced in Asian sweatshops by women who have a lot less than the most miserable of our deprived.

A simple example would be America whose public really believe that they are the most generous with foreign aid. When asked what percentage of GDP the US donate in foreign aid, 10%, 5% or 1%, most respondents to the question responded 10%.

The real figure is 0.1%. That's one tenth of 1 percent. So in simple terms if America earned $100 then their foreign donation would be one dime. And most of that foreign aid goes with the stipulation that it be spent on US products.

SO.....how much does Ireland give. Probably just as fcuking stingy.
We bleat on about giving a few scraps to the pestilence stricken multitudes yet I don't hear anyone clamouring to give back the billions we received from Brussels to get our roads upgraded from boithrin status.....but I did hear complaints about giving to Latvia or Poland when they joined our cosy little EU clique.

The Norwegians are the most generous in the world with their foreign aid yet I've yet to hear one of them either complain or brag about it.

Can't give something with a good heart? Then don't give it at all.

Cavehill Red

asherbassad wrote: »

Can't give something with a good heart? Then don't give it at all.

Yes, that's what I'd like. Thanks for agreeing.
Also,which dictators? Pretty much all of them.

sure joe

the only money they should recieve is to fund permanent sterilisation. a few years back was looking at trocaire box on the front was an african woman with a baby, on the back it said something about struggling to feed her five children. heres a mad idea if you cant feed them dont have them.

mattjack

asherbassad wrote: »

Are we now?
How much money does Ireland borrow and give to dictators?

I don't see too many of our so called needy up in arms when they buy their garments from Penneys and Dunnes.....garments that were produced in Asian sweatshops by women who have a lot less than the most miserable of our deprived.

A simple example would be America whose public really believe that they are the most generous with foreign aid. When asked what percentage of GDP the US donate in foreign aid, 10%, 5% or 1%, most respondents to the question responded 10%.

The real figure is 0.1%. That's one tenth of 1 percent. So in simple terms if America earned $100 then their foreign donation would be one dime. And most of that foreign aid goes with the stipulation that it be spent on US products.

SO.....how much does Ireland give. Probably just as fcuking stingy.
We bleat on about giving a few scraps to the pestilence stricken multitudes yet I don't hear anyone clamouring to give back the billions we received from Brussels to get our roads upgraded from boithrin status.....but I did hear complaints about giving to Latvia or Poland when they joined our cosy little EU clique.

The Norwegians are the most generous in the world with their foreign aid yet I've yet to hear one of them either complain or brag about it.

Can't give something with a good heart? Then don't give it at all.

how much do we give ?

Nodin

sure joe wrote: »

the only money they should recieve is to fund permanent sterilisation. a few years back was looking at trocaire box on the front was an african woman with a baby, on the back it said something about struggling to feed her five children. heres a mad idea if you cant feed them dont have them.

You know not all aid is in the form of food....?

Madam_X

Is it literally a case of "We're in debt here but let's send loads of aid money to other countries anyway" though? Genuine question.

sure joe

Nodin wrote: »

You know not all aid is in the form of food....?

yes. whats your point

Nodin

sure joe wrote: »

yes. whats your point

You implied a simplistic scenario where shortage of food was linked to overpopulation.

Cavehill Red

mattjack wrote: »

how much do we give ?

Too fucking much, given that we're borrowing all of it.
Let me break it down. We're the eighth most generous per capita donors on Earth. We gave 636 million to Irish AID for ODA in 2011, which was about 2% of all taxes we took in. That's up from 142 million euro in 1996.
In percentage terms, we give 0.54% compared to 0.29% (Greece) or 0.35% (Germany).
It could have been worse. Remember when Bertie was striding the world in his yellow slacks promising the UN to give loads of charitable aid? The FF plan in 2007 was to donate 1.5 BILLION euro in ODA in 2012. They subsequently scaled that back to a mere half a billion in their 2010 plan. Thank God they got fecked out of office; they'd be handing the keys to our exchequer to Mozambique at that rate.

Madam_X

sure joe wrote: »

the only money they should recieve is to fund permanent sterilisation. a few years back was looking at trocaire box on the front was an african woman with a baby, on the back it said something about struggling to feed her five children. heres a mad idea if you cant feed them dont have them.

Yeh exactly - I mean it's not like she faces obstacles such as lack of education, lack of contraception, societal and cultural pressures to have children, expectation to provide sex whenever it's wished for, religious/superstitious pressures.
Perfectly sound logic to compare her to a woman in e.g. Ireland.

Cavehill Red

Madam_X wrote: »

Is it literally a case of "We're in debt here but let's send loads of aid money to other countries anyway" though? Genuine question.

Yes. ODA is routed through Irish Aid, which is directly funded from the Irish exchequer, which is itself now being funded by borrowing due to our enormous deficit, of which ODA is a part.

sure joe

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh exactly - I mean it's not like she faces obstacles such as lack of education, lack of contraception, societal and cultural pressures to have children, expectation to provide sex whenever it's wished for, religious/superstitious pressures.
Perfectly sound logic to compare her to a woman in e.g. Ireland.

simple so we quit funding them to overpopulate the world and let nature take its course

sure joe

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh exactly - I mean it's not like she faces obstacles such as lack of education, lack of contraception, societal and cultural pressures to have children, expectation to provide sex whenever it's wished for, religious/superstitious pressures.
Perfectly sound logic to compare her to a woman in e.g. Ireland.

like i said fund a sterilisation programme

Madam_X

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yes. ODA is routed through Irish Aid, which is directly funded from the Irish exchequer, which is itself now being funded by borrowing due to our enormous deficit, of which ODA is a part.

A reduction so, but not a complete cut - although definitely not countries where the money is funding the oppressive political status quo. But otherwise, while it may not be changing things on a macro level, small villages may be benefitting.
Life is a lottery - it's simple chance and luck that we were born here and not there. IMO those who have the means to have a decent standard of living shouldn't feel guilty about it, but should give back somewhat to those who don't have a chance, given that the former's good fortune is due to a mere accident of birth.

Nodin

sure joe wrote: »

simple so we quit funding them to overpopulate the world and let nature take its course

...what a charming world view.

repsol

sure joe wrote: »

like i said fund a sterilisation programme

All the do gooders will not like it Joe but it is hard to argue against.The population in Ethiopia is roughly double what it was during Live Aid.You cannot live in a place were it never rains,that is about as fertile as the surface of the moon and keep having endless kids and expect everyone else to pay year after year.If you feed a kid now you will be feeding her and her five kids in 20 years. If you cannot bear to watch the famine footage on BBC change channels or send your own money yourself.Govt money should be used in this country only

The King of Moo

repsol wrote: »

All the do gooders will not like it Joe but it is hard to argue against.The population in Ethiopia is roughly double what it was during Live Aid.You cannot live in a place were it never rains,that is about as fertile as the surface of the moon and keep having endless kids and expect everyone else to pay year after year.If you feed a kid now you will be feeding her and her five kids in 20 years. If you cannot bear to watch the famine footage on BBC change channels or send your own money yourself.Govt money should be used in this country only

Yeah, f**k them, let's all do bad!!

*kicks dog*

crockholm

I hate to say it but my compassion for the poor in these countries is nearing depletion, I gave one quarter of what was in my bank account to the ethopian famine victims of 1984-5, nearly 30 years later the bowl is still being waved, maybe its the culture,maybe we're screwing them here in the west,I dont know, anyone here spent much time in the affected countries, your input is needed

MaxSteele

I already said it in the previous thread on this and I'll say it again.

Tax is there to run and service the people paying for it. I.e the taxpayer. (Which it isn't doing too well at the moment)..
Not squander hundreds of millions of it on dependent families of 6+ in the horn of Africa because "Jolani has to walk 5 miles each day to draw water from the well" or whatever bleeding heart excuse Trocaire feed us.

horse7

Why not put up a pole on the subject.

MaxSteele

The King of Moo wrote: »

Yeah, f**k them, let's all do bad!!

*kicks dog*

Reported to the ISPCA.

crockholm

The King of Moo wrote: »

Yeah, f**k them, let's all do bad!!

*kicks dog*

or you could cook the dog and send it out, if you have any humanity left:pac:

Gyalist

Anyone who thinks that overseas aid is charity or that it is something for nothing, is seriously deluded.

Diairist

Yes, Africa has millions of people in awful poverty; there is high infant mortality and so on. However, I am aware that my tax and Mrs Merkel's money could be spent differently here - heating in Irish schools last November deserves a mention, unless you take sympathy on the business men / women who are short because too few cars are using our tunnels. Re the N3 discussions in 2007 "...he believed 70 per cent of the 16,000 people who commuted daily to Dublin from Kells would face an annual bill of up to €2,112 if they used the motorway. They would, therefore, continue to use the N3. "

Result " THE STATE is paying almost €500,000 a month to the private operators of the M3 motorway and the N18 Limerick Tunnel because traffic volumes have fallen short of guarantees given by the State, the National Roads Authority (NRA) has confirmed. " Technically it's from " Traffic Guarantee Payments " who " The NRA expects to pay another €6.7m to the companies in 2012 as a result of continued lower than expected traffic volumes."

Cavehill Red

Madam_X wrote: »

A reduction so, but not a complete cut - although definitely not countries where the money is funding the oppressive political status quo. But otherwise, while it may not be changing things on a macro level, small villages may be benefitting.
Life is a lottery - it's simple chance and luck that we were born here and not there. IMO those who have the means to have a decent standard of living shouldn't feel guilty about it, but should give back somewhat to those who don't have a chance, given that the former's good fortune is due to a mere accident of birth.

You must have missed the post where I pointed out that AID DOESN'T WORK and actually harms the recipients.
Read Dambisa Moyo on this. It's urgent for our sake and for that of African and Asian and South American nations that we end aid entirely and immediately. The ONLY people who benefit are the neo-colonial aid workers.

Nodin

horse7 wrote: »

Why not put up a pole on the subject.

Don't drag them into it, for jaysus sake.

repsol

Wake up people.We have Irish citizens whose toddler has Cancer having to beg people to buy a charity record to fund her treatment, kids living in squalid conditions in Irish hospitals etc and we are sending millions out to the far side of the world to feed someone elses kids. What the hell is wrong with you people????????

Potatoeman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governments_by_development_aid

To provide an alternative perspective, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development also lists countries by the amount of money they give as a percentage of their gross national income. The list includes international giving through official channels that qualify as Official Development Assistance, and national charitable giving. This list is as follows:

Sweden – 1.45%
Norway – 1.06%
Luxembourg – 1.04%
Denmark – 0.88%
Netherlands – 0.82%
Belgium – 0.55%
Finland – 0.54%
Ireland – 0.54%
United Kingdom – 0.52%
France- 0.47%

Aid needs to be for development and not just food and medicine. There are increasing numbers of refugee camps around the world where the population is growing and the people have nowhere to go. An economic downturn or increase in food prices will lead to an inevitable disaster. Short term aid should not be going to long term problems that have no resolution plan.