Cleaning .22 advice please

CZ455.22LR

Got a hoppes cleaning kit with 3 piece alliminium rod plus a bore guide from yodave (for cz455).

First time cleaning, some resistance pushing the rod through the guide. After a few passes I noticed metal shavings - the rod was being sheared going thru the chamber.

So I cleaned again without the guide and no resistence, removed all the shavings and seems ok.

Could I have damaged the bore?

Is the bore guide essential? Seems to be causing the problem. Is it wise to clean with a rod and no bore guide? Or would I be better off using a bore snake?

zeissman

CZ 22lr bores are very tight and a lot of 22 rods wont fit them.
I use my 20 cal rod to clean mine.

tac foley

1. Walk into kitchen.

2. Open pedal bin.

3. Carefully insert your three-piece cleaning rod into the part of the bin reserved for total sh&te.

4. Go to nearest gun dealer and buy a ONE-piece cleaning rod that is at least ~ten inches longer than your entire barrelled action. As had already been pointed out, a .20cal rod is better than most .22cal rods, especially where a newer CZ is concerned. Also get a Hoppes pointy thing that takes the smallest cotton patches, and use this instead of all the metallic brushes that you may have. You are only shooting lead, not copper or cupro-nickel jacketed bullets and do not need all the finagling stuff, pouring and swabbing, scrubbing and energetic cleaning that goes with such ammunition. I have .22 rifles that are over a hundred years of old that are STILL accurate, as I proved this very morning - rods and patches, but no metallic brushes, are all I have every used in my .22 rifles.

Other opinions may, of course, differ. I'm good with that.

tac

Cass

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1.

A brush has no place going near a rimfire (or a C/F for that matter). One piece rod, good cleaning products, and you're done.

It wasn't me!

Counter to the above, I have found that a very thorough application of a bronze brush has a noticeably positive effect on my accuracy after a certain point. I only see it if I get lax about brushing though and the accuracy does deteriorate. To avoid this, I give it a good brushing every five hundred rounds or so if I remember. (Probably closer to a thousand most of the time, as I tend to forget how many I've shot until I notice a dent in accuracy and then check shots fired and clean it...)

tac foley

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Counter to the above, I have found that a very thorough application of a bronze brush has a noticeably positive effect on my accuracy after a certain point. I only see it if I get lax about brushing though and the accuracy does deteriorate. To avoid this, I give it a good brushing every five hundred rounds or so if I remember. (Probably closer to a thousand most of the time, as I tend to forget how many I've shot until I notice a dent in accuracy and then check shots fired and clean it...)

Well, there ya go!

As I noted, opinions and experiences will differ - on this occasion, by 180 degrees. :eek:

I've found, in my experience, that using a brush of any kind in any of my .22 rifles over the last fifty-something years had caused the accuracy to go straight down the pan, and they all need a good thirty to fifty rounds down them before they are back to where they were before. However, in mitigation, the very newest of my little collection dates from early 1963 - so perhaps metallurgy has changed since then.....

Everybody must do as they think best.

tac

demonloop

In my experience you are both correct.

A better quality barrel will perform better after a good rodding (!) with the bronze brush. Its an efficient cleaner.

A poorer quality barrel will perform worse, as the brush will be very efficient at stripping out the lead that is filling the imperfections in the poorer barrel.

Re: three piece rods - buy a good one that fits together precisely and it works fine. Buy a poor one and they're ****e.

One piece is a safer bet, but not always ideal for travelling. A good pull through is a useful alternative.

Cass

I have owned new, and old (40+ years) Cz and Anschutz rifles. Never used a brush on it.

I'm not saying to use one is wrong, but i personally never use one on any rifle and this translated to rimfire. I allow the cleaning agents to do their job, and keep mopping out with plenty of patches. Never suffered loss of accuracy in any rifle due to my process.

CZ455.22LR

Thanks for all the advice....

So if I use a one piece rod do I need to use a bore guide? Does anyone else use one?

Does anyone refer a bore snake?
 

Cass

CZ455.22LR wrote: »

So if I use a one piece rod do I need to use a bore guide? Does anyone else use one?

Yes. Always.

Does anyone refer a bore snake?
 

I always carry one, and it's a handy accessory to have. However i don't use it exclusively or more to the point i don't use it when i have access to a rod, and patches.

Witcher

Is a nylon brush not a compromise between patches only and using a bronze brush?

IRLConor

tac foley wrote: »

and they all need a good thirty to fifty rounds down them before they are back to where they were before.

Ah yes, sighters.

Joking aside, a thorough cleaning of any rifle I've used has required some shooting in to bring it back to where it was before. Some have required more shots than others. These days, I normally count on at least 5 fouling shots after a light cleaning (what it gets before it's put away) and at least 10 after a really thorough cleaning.

nastros

Sorry to high jack this thread but I am curious what cleaning agents do people recommend to put on the patches I have heard people talk about hoppes no9 but I am unsure if this is mainly for centerfires or do people use it for rimfires also.

Witcher

Hoppes will work for all firearms, I've used it in my .22 and shotgun.

Cass

Hoppe's No.9 is a brand more so than a specific cleanser. However it usually is referred to as a copper solvent, but that's not to say it will not work to some degree. Others use MPro-7, etc. but these are still C/F designed cleaning solutions. It's usually lead, and carbon that is left in the barrel so you would look at BoreTech Rimfire blend to clean the lead and powder/carbon fouling out.

Alternatively you could opt for KG-1 carbon remover then use one of the copper solvents and should get decent to good results. All depends on the solvent, and technique you use to clean.

It wasn't me!

I'm using the Boretech Rimfire Blend at the moment. It's very good indeed. Definitely makes cleaning quicker, easier and more efficient than using the likes of 3 in 1 as I was before.

minktrapper

How often should a rifle be cleaned.

It wasn't me!

This is under target shooting, so requirements and procedures might be different than for most people's hunting purposes. For me, it get cleaned every time it gets fired, whether that be one shot or five hundred, it gets cleaned when I get home. Now mostly that's a couple of wet patches (in the .22) and then patch dry/clean. For hunting, if the centrefire gets shot, it gets an oily patch or two and then patched dry/clean. It gets copper solvent every couple of boxes probably, forty or fifty rounds. As said though, it depends on how critical accuracy is for you and what you're comfortable with.

Cavan duck buster

Any one know ware i can get this?

http://www.bluewonder.us/BlueWonderGunCleaner.html

clivej

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Any one know ware i can get this?

http://www.bluewonder.us/BlueWonderGunCleaner.html

http://shop.bluewonder.us/

It was product of the year in 2002. So other better bore cleaners have been produced since then.

IWM is using Boretech Rimfire Blend and looks to be happy with it. It is made for the .22lr and will remove all the sh!te that rimfires produce, i.e lead and carbon.
I found this place in the UK for it
http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/ecatalog/boretech-rimfire-blend-p-1023.html?osCsid=c63gg9ttthc9h75g8841qqc331

IRLConor

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Any one know ware i can get this?

http://www.bluewonder.us/BlueWonderGunCleaner.html

Sounds like the vfg blue paste I've used before. It's scary how much stuff it takes out of the gun. Supposedly "clean" guns could take ten or twenty patches through them before the last of the lead & carbon would come out.

021CRETE01

Cass wrote: »

Yes. Always.


I always carry one, and it's a handy accessory to have. However i don't use it exclusively or more to the point i don't use it when i have access to a rod, and patches.

Hi Cass,
I am returning to .22lr shooting after 30yrs approx.In fact I am collecting my CZ 455 (with mod) next weekend. With so much info available on the net now
the subject of shooting and gun care has become more interesting but also a bit confusing. For instance, using a bore sight while cleaning with rod, what is a bore sight & why use it?Long ago I just used a pull- through but now I have a 3-piece rod with brass brushes and mop. What could possibly go wrong by using this kit?

Thanks for listening,
021CRETE01

Cass

021CRETE01 wrote: »

For instance, using a bore sight while cleaning with rod, what is a bore sight & why use it?

No idea.

Boresight to me was always the process of looking through the bore to sight in or zero the rifle. no idea what it is in terms of cleaning. Perhaps a bore guide? If so then it's a piece of shaped plastic that sits in the action and protects spillage of cleaning products, and gives the rod a straight run into the barrel. Useful, and good, but not essential. After saying that i always use one but it's up to yourself.

Long ago I just used a pull- through but now I have a 3-piece rod with brass brushes and mop. What could possibly go wrong by using this kit?

There is nothing inherently wrong with a three piece rod. I personally wouldn't use one. The three piece rod it weakest at the points where each piece connects to the next. This can cause a bowing effect when the rod is run into the barrel, and from prolonged use can cause damage, wear, or other problems to the chamber/barrel. Now the chances are slim, but why take the chance at all when a one piece rod eliminates it.

The reason i don't use a brush especially a brass one is again the wear factor. When you run a rod with brush up the barrel it collects the fouling, and oils/solvents you have in the barrel. Once the brush exits the barrels all this "gunk" is trapped within the bristles, and most people pull the rod straight back down through the barrel. The brush, still full of gunk, acts like a lapping paste and from prolonged use can cause damage to the crown of the rifle effecting accuracy.

Again a simple solution is to either unscrew the brush each time it exits the barrel or as i do, let the solvents do the work, and don't use a brush.

It's all personal choice. The processes i use are long, and tedious. I sometimes feel like short cutting it, but don't for the life of the rifle.

tac foley

021CRETE01 wrote: »

...now I have a 3-piece rod with brass brushes and mop. What could possibly go wrong by using this kit?

Well, I'm not Cass, but I too have an opinion based on around sixty years of shooting, some of it accurately - I began when I was six, BTW.

I have nothing to add to Cass's methodology and gun-cleaning régime, since we share them more or less exactly, with the exception of just one thing.

Ditch the multi-piece rod and get a high-quality one piece item of the correct calibre that takes a variety of ends - Hoppes make a great system. The first 'end' you should get is a spike, and bag of patches - they come in 1000's BTW. You'll probably find that you don't need anything else. Put the cleaner of choice on the patch, and PUSH the patch through the bore - it will drop off at the other end. I push mine into a modified soda-pop bottle that fits over the muzzle - when it's full of patches, I throw it away. Follow the cleaner recommendations precisely - it should be a long time before you need to use anything drastic on a .22 rimfire rifle - I shoot one made in 1910 that hasn't been cleaned with more than a push-through in living memory, and my dad's Walther, bought in 1930-something, is the same - so are the other five.

Centre-fire is a bit more complex, but not beyond the wit of most to cope with. Obviously, since even I have managed to keep my seven centre-fire rifles shooting well, even those from the end of the 19th century.

tac

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

................ with the exception of just one thing.

Ditch the multi-piece rod and get a high-quality one piece item of the correct calibre that takes a variety of ends

/ahem ............

Cass wrote: »

There is nothing inherently wrong with a three piece rod. I personally wouldn't use one.

tac foley

Cass wrote: »

/ahem ............

I never suggested that you did, but the OP does. My advice was aimed at him, not you. I wouldn't have the gall to offer you any advice.

tac

021CRETE01

Cass wrote: »

No idea.

Boresight to me was always the process of looking through the bore to sight in or zero the rifle. no idea what it is in terms of cleaning. Perhaps a bore guide? If so then it's a piece of shaped plastic that sits in the action and protects spillage of cleaning products, and gives the rod a straight run into the barrel. Useful, and good, but not essential. After saying that i always use one but it's up to yourself.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a three piece rod. I personally wouldn't use one. The three piece rod it weakest at the points where each piece connects to the next. This can cause a bowing effect when the rod is run into the barrel, and from prolonged use can cause damage, wear, or other problems to the chamber/barrel. Now the chances are slim, but why take the chance at all when a one piece rod eliminates it.

The reason i don't use a brush especially a brass one is again the wear factor. When you run a rod with brush up the barrel it collects the fouling, and oils/solvents you have in the barrel. Once the brush exits the barrels all this "gunk" is trapped within the bristles, and most people pull the rod straight back down through the barrel. The brush, still full of gunk, acts like a lapping paste and from prolonged use can cause damage to the crown of the rifle effecting accuracy.

Again a simple solution is to either unscrew the brush each time it exits the barrel or as i do, let the solvents do the work, and don't use a brush.

It's all personal choice. The processes i use are long, and tedious. I sometimes feel like short cutting it, but don't for the life of the rifle.

Hi Cass,
Apologies for mistake, you are totally correct--it was "bore guide" I actually meant and not "bore sight".It all makes sense now.Thanks for explaining.
Regards,
021CRETE01