Have babies got more complicated?

looksee

Just reading a thread in PI talking about how much support the non-caring parent should pay for a baby, and I am a bit bemused by the costs. At the same time I am a granny and know how much kit my grandchildren need.

I can see how useful all this stuff is, but I can't help remembering rearing my own kids and I don't recall they being all that expensive till they were at school.

As small babies 40 years ago they lived in baby-grows - a new invention at the time, matinee jackets and for going out in winter those all in one teddy bear suits. They slept in sleeping bag nightdresses (which I made) then as they got bigger, zip up sleeping suits. Not a lot different there except that they didn't have anything approaching the quantity of clothes that children have now.

They had a cot, a very basic plastic carry cot, a very basic buggy - nothing like the modern ones, though the modern ones are much more comfortable, a high chair, a baby bath. Car seats were not compulsory but we did have them, the small babies lay in a carry cot on the back seat. Not very safe but that was it then.

The first two had terry nappies, so we had a couple of buckets, Nappysan and a twin tub washer. Plastic overpants. I'm saying 'we' - daddy changed the occasional nappy, but hadn't a clue what to do with the soiled one!

They had bottles, a simple (plastic box) steriliser with Milton, and formula powder in a tin. Dried baby rice in a packet.

Gripe water, baby asprin (!), sudocreme, vaseline, talc, Johnsons baby soap and shampoo. We did eventually get nappy liners, but there were no baby wipes. Cot bedding and towels.

And as far as I remember, that was it.

We took our first child to Kenya when she was about 2 months old, I was just 24, and our second was born there. We lived miles from anywhere (100 miles from Nairobi) there were no shops, doctors, or anything else. All water had to be boiled and cooking was done on a charcoal stove.

We did have some good neighbours with experience of rearing children, but generally speaking I worked on instinct. No one told me what to do, no one said I couldn't feed them bananas and baby rice at 6 months, no one told me when I should put them to bed or potty train them. The youngest was one when we left to come to Ireland, and in the time we were there the eldest had a bit of a cold once, and that was all. We were very lucky, they were both very healthy, sturdy children. The next two, in Ireland, were a different story.

As the children grew up I made pretty well all their clothes - this was pre-Dunnes and clothes just couldn't be bought, not for any sort of sensible money. I remember going into a shop in Kilkenny - The Monster House as it was then - to buy a teeshirt. I stood at the counter and asked if they had any childrens teeshirts, and the assistant turned and took a box off the shelf behind her, opened it up and there were a few childrens' teeshirts, about 3 year old size. Price? £7. Seven Irish Pounds! That was about 1975 or 6, and was an impossible amount of money to pay for a child's garment. Needless to say I didn't buy it.

At the time it didn't seem strange. It would seem impossible now to anyone who is accustomed to the modern equipment and facilities for babies. I suppose that has always been the way, things progress. Does anyone else recognise their child-rearing in this description?

Sorry if I have rambled on too long, but I think there are probably loads of stories out there once you start thinking.

Offy

Great post looksee, very interesting reading.

Wils110

I'm 26 and think its more complicated now thanks to doctor google nurse yahoo

I always think to myself when I was a kid there was none of this and I'm alright then arguments start

maringo

Don't you think the advertising industry convinces young parents that the child needs whatever and pushes it at them. The new in-between milk seems to be the rage now though there is absolutely no need for it or hasn't been up till the food industry decided to promote it. its a bit like household cleaning products - thousands of them - people seem to fall for a different product to clean this, another one to clean that when in fact detergent is detergent and a few different ones are all you need and not a plethora of them. Having said that I think most young parents are great - my daughter in law cooks up once a week for the baby and liquidises/freezes it rather than feed jars of factory baby food. Saves a fortune and good wholesome food instead of factory processed stuff. That's as well as working fulltime too.

Jellybaby1

Ditto everything you said Looksee. I loved to see the lovely fresh white terry nappies blowing in the wind on the washing line.

psicic

Advertising and marketing are at the root of it all. There's a buck to be made, and all these 'child experts' and manufacturing companies are going to do their best to make sure they're the ones who make it!

And most people see that.

Right up until they have a kid.

Then it's 'spend-spend-spend' so baby can have the best.

I've seen this happen with a lot of my female friends in the 30 year old age-group. All rational and highly critical of people 'wasting' money on the newest baby fad... then they have their sprog and they have to spend money hand-over-fist because this innovation is the one that'll make the difference.

And never try and debate it with them when the mist of parenthood has descended... oh god, no...

It's great that there's support out there for new parents to provide general guidance and maybe pull up some of the parents with the poorest skills - but the truth is the majority would get on just fine without paying quite so much for this 'aid'.

I can't say I really know what they're thinking, but I'm often left with the feeling that many are in a sort of a loop - the more they spend, the greater the feeling that there is some parental inadequacy that they can address... just... by... spending... a... little... more...

KKkitty

I'm 31 and have 2 kids. Times have changed dramatically since my parents had all of us. My mother and aunt would often tell me of simpler times where stylish clothes for babies were practically nonexistent, everything was hand me downs, there wasn't this and that gadget for babies either and most of all money as you said wasn't there for nice things. For babies of today there's every gadget under the sun.

Rubecula

Not only more complicated but a lot more expensive The old nappies could used washed and reused. Now it is single use and throw away. Gripe water is almost impossible to get, so modern things are used instead at extortionate prices. Fancy clothes are expensive.

I think babies are being used by companies to make money myself. The whole thing disgusts me. And on a side note, how many babies are born at home these days? They simply just have to be born in 'proper' facilities in a clean sterile (ha ha) environment at a hospital.

Chucken

Our house hasnt a corner left without baby things in it since the little grandson arrived. *Sigh* I dunno, he seems to be content to be fed, warm and entertained but it seems he "needs" all "the stuff".
He has more clothes than he'll ever get to wear, he's growing so fast!

Momma and Daddy are fairly sensible in all fairness, its the extented family that went bananas buying things. ....(ok, and me :pac: But all from Adverts etc, 2nd hand.)

The one thing I find hilarious is the new type cloth nappies. You'd need a mortgage to buy a set of them http://www.littlecomfort.com/pocket-nappies-popeazy-s/126.htm.

I bought about 3 dozen of them on Adverts for about 50euro. If I hadnt found them, they would be buying disposables forever!

I remember I had 2 dozen Terry towelling nappies and managed to drag my 2 kiddies up with just that amount. Theres only 13 months between them so I had the 2 of them in nappies together. Bucket-napisan-twin tub-clothes line----job done!

Also, I only remember buying very little new clothes....everything they wore was 2nd hand. Blue on a girl? Ahhh who cared :pac:

Jellybaby1

One granny used to knit matinee jackets for my babbies. One day when she decided to knit a jacket for our boy she wouldn't go and buy new blue wool. She just knitted with what she had. Yep, pink wool! He's in his 30's now and I still haven't told him!

Cienciano

Rubecula wrote: »

Not only more complicated but a lot more expensive The old nappies could used washed and reused. Now it is single use and throw away. Gripe water is almost impossible to get, so modern things are used instead at extortionate prices. Fancy clothes are expensive.

I think babies are being used by companies to make money myself. The whole thing disgusts me. And on a side note, how many babies are born at home these days? They simply just have to be born in 'proper' facilities in a clean sterile (ha ha) environment at a hospital.

Ah now! I agree with the OP, but if you seriously had the option of disposable nappies (just paid €15 for just over 100 nappies) or washing runny shíte out of toweling nappies what would you choose?

Jellybaby1

Not the sweetest description Cienciano, but back then, there was no choice. Money would never stretch to disposables.

Jamie Starr

I'm not an oulwan or an oulfella, but modern children's buggies are hilarious. They look like lunar rovers.

KKkitty

Were the days of terry towel nappies hard? Never experienced it myself so wouldn't, know.

NIMAN

As a new parent, I do think we have it a lot easier than our parents had it. We have so many things to make it so much easier, and I often wonder how our parents coped. Then again maybe we have too much stuff?

I agree that marketing of new products for kids is way OTT. Things to seal smelly nappies in a little bag for you to put in the bin? I buy nappy bags from the likes of Tescos, 300 for 50p. Why buy a machine to do it?

Also think the follow-on milk is a nonsense too. They convince parents that they are bad if they DON'T buy it for their children. They need it for brain development! So the older generations who never got it much be right thicko's, eh!

Only thing I would say is a great development are disposable nappies (environmentalists may not agree). I vaguely remember my mum holding heavily loaded towel nappies into a flushing toilet to get them as clean as possible before boil washing. I think to do that nowadays would be a bit of a pain tbh.

Jellybaby1

KKkitty wrote: »

Were the days of terry towel nappies hard? Never experienced it myself so wouldn't, know.

Only time it got the better of me was on wet or frosty wintery days and trying to dry 'em without an all-electric clothes dryer. Otherwise no, not rocket science. Drop the gunk including liner into loo, flush loo, soak nappies in Napisan overnight and pop the cover on the bucket, next day drain off into loo, flush, wring out gunky nappies wearing rubber gloves of course, pop nappies into washing machine, wash on high temperature include fabric softener, hang out on very long washing line to dry, watch and listen to them flap in the beautiful summer sunlight, and cuddle baby! Heaven!!! No, really! Dead easy when you remember that some folk are changing nappies for their elderly parents, those sons and daughters are the heroes.

seamus

I agree to a certain extent that there are a lot of things being advertised as essential, such a follow-on milke, even though babies haven't changed in 10,000 years. Somehow billions of children were born and raised and weaned successfully from breast to solids before SMA even existed.

There is also a little bit of "Ah sure, I raised twelve kids doing it my way" from grandparents and older people. They forget that the way that they raised their children also differed from how they were raised, due to fashion or fad. There are plenty of things which we look back on now and are rightfully aghast - carrying kids in a basket on the back seat, smoking in bed with the child in the same room, etc.

There are a few "new" ways of handling children particularly in relation to SIDS, which many older people seem to think is nonsense, but in those cases I'll go with the research over the experience every day. Any "method" which tries to suggest that children today are somehow fundamentally different to children 30 years ago though, I just completely ignore. Usually it's an attempt to sell you something, or it's a new problem which has been introduced by new technology - that you can only leave a child in the car seat for 90 minutes, for example.

looksee

A lot of it is down to what you are used to. If you have never used disposable nappies then managing terry nappies isn't an issue. If you know there are disposables but you can't afford them, then again, get on with the terry nappies. If you can afford disposables and are used to them, then you would have to be a serious environmentalist to bother with terry nappies.

If you are a working-outside-the-home mother you are not likely to have time for the terry nappies either. And I think it is true they need more management as they are more likely to cause nappy rash.

I agree there are some modern practices that are definitely better for children, there are also some that are fads. The whole feed on demand/leave them to cry argument is one. There is a little bit of sense on both sides of the argument, the problem is when mothers are so anxious to do it 'right' that they take the whole thing to extremes.

There isn't any intention to say 'we were right' its just a bit of nostalgia.

Alice1

Hmm, I did find that the decrease in the amount of "stuff" needed correlates precisely to the increase in the size of the child! When they are very small, there seems to be endless pieces of equipment - as they get older (and the parent gets wiser) you find you don't really need as much.

Jellybaby1

True Alice, until they reach the early teen years, and then its designer labels all the way! But relax, that will end when they have to buy them themselves! We discovered that as well! :rolleyes:

pwurple

I think attitudes are a bit mad alright. People seem to buy loads of things when children don't give a toss about second hand. The consumerism of today I suppose. We got a new buggy as a gift from my late grandmother, but every single other baby thing is second-hand. Bottles and steriliser were my friends ones, clothes were all hand-me downs, and beautiful ones at that. Carseat was a trusted cousins, cot was my own one as a baby. Books we get in the library. So far, we have bought a couple of sleeping bags, a baby monitor, shoes and nappies. She got a trike for her birthday, and a doll from santa. We have been very lucky to have all this support, but our attitude seems to be different to some parents. My first cousin has a baby 1 year younger, so I washed, folded and packed up the clothes, steriliser etc, offered them to her, and she looked me up and down and said 'My Baby will be getting new things'.

She proudly told me after christmas that she queued for 2 hours on stephens day in the rain at 5 am for the sales to open, and spent 200 euro on baby clothes age 6 months to 12 months. With 2 vaccuum packed huge bags of that age clothes sitting in my attic unused waiting for the next family baby.

I don't get it.

The one thing I do love though is the modern baby monitor. Having experienced cot death in our family, it was something I was totally terrified about. The movement sensor baby monitor that bleeps if the breathing stops for 20 seconds is the best invention ever.

Neyite

I'm the same as you Pwurple, we got nearly everything secondhand from a relative. The only exceptions being the cot mattress and the car seat. We also bought our buggy, simply because it was on offer, and we hadnt seen anything secondhand. Other items we got as gifts, like the sensor monitor.

In a way, I'm glad of the recession - in the tiger years many people would have looked at you, shocked for not going on a mad spending spree, buying everything new as if second hand meant you dont love your child. But thankfully these tools have disappeared back into the woodwork.

I've noticed you can spend as much or as little on baby equipment - I admired a friends highchair and in a baby shop saw the same one and pointed it out to the OH. It was €265, not including the cushion, or straps for small baby. And the eejit working there trying to tell me it was excellent value, that the child would have it to adulthood. (but, um, there are these inventions called "chairs" that he could use?) All I wanted was something compact, that could dismantle or fold for storage easily, pull up to the table directly and was easy clean. Ikea had one for €20, and its brilliant.

The follow-on milk scam campaign annoys me.

eviltwin

I have a 15 yr old and a 3 yr old. I can see a difference in even those 12 years.

When the first was born you got pregnant and had a baby, bought it some clothes and a few toys and that was it.

With my second before he was even born I was being given flyers for pregnancy pilates, home nurses etc.

And all the ads for must have gimmick items ( a baby wipe warmer being one that I recall as being the most wft item )

I can see how new parents get sucked in by all this because the advertising is so emotive ie if you care about your baby and their wellbeing you will buy this item

Chucken

A baby wipe warmer? :eek: :pac:

Can someone tell me why baby cant have a nice bath every night?

I used to bath my 2 at 6pm every evening. Then into the jaamies and supper time. Off to bed by 7 or 7.30.

Now. baba gets 'topped and tailed' every day and a bath once a week (all done according to hospital and PHN instructions)

I was minding the baba here yesterday evening and he'd been a bit fussy all day, so by 7pm I thought maybe a bath would soothe him. Momma paniced saying he'd already had his weekly bath :rolleyes:

She agreed to try it and lo and behold, one comfy happy little munchkin

looksee

Goodness I didn't know that chucken. Yes we had daily baths in the evening, lovely cuddly clean babby, prevented nappy rash, happy and sleepy and fun in the bath!

Chucken

looksee wrote: »

Goodness I didn't know that chucken. Yes we had daily baths in the evening, lovely cuddly clean babby, prevented nappy rash, happy and sleepy and fun in the bath!

Another thing is, we had stocked up on sudo creme, baby bath, talc etc...cant use those either

Its all about water and lumps of cotton wool for all areas now.

One thing that has dawned on us though is, our memories of 'baby smell' are mostly associated with Johnsons products :pac:

looksee

Well I kinda get the talc, and even the baby bath, but what's wrong with sudocreme? Magic cure-all for all skin issues!

Chucken

looksee wrote: »

Well I kinda get the talc, and even the baby bath, but what's wrong with sudocreme? Magic cure-all for all skin issues!

Prevention is not better than the cure it seems.

We used to slatther it on bums at every change but now you wait until baby gets nappy rash...which of course he shouldnt cos of all the water and cotton wool

Rubecula

Chucken wrote: »

One thing that has dawned on us though is, our memories of 'baby smell' are mostly associated with Johnsons products :pac:

You mean to say the lovely baby smell is in fact furniture polish?

Chucken

Yes Rube

Shiny babies :pac:

Neyite

I dont see why a bath every night is a bad thing. Its not like it takes loads of water. It relaxes the baby, and if they have a rash or dry skin it can soothe the itch.

I was conned sold a cream for a rash behind his knees for €12. Did nada and now I have a pricey moisturiser that I don't need. I used porridge oats in the bath (tip: put porridge oats in a pop-sock to soak out all the good stuff but stop them floating around the bath) and its cleared him right up after using a range of creams to no avail in the last 6 months.

The wipes nonsense I ignored once I got out of hospital and saw they didnt cause any reaction on him.

Rubecula

porridge is a wonder, that I know, but that is the first time I have heard of that.. I know it helps adults with skin disorder though so perhaps it is the same with babies.

I had my first child 29 years ago and it was definitely different than today, about 3 years ago I was talking to a couple who were having their first baby and they were telling me they had paid a thousand euros for the buggy, I nearly fell over from shock I could not conceive how anyone could pay that much for a buggy.

Alice1

This was recommended for my daughter's eczema - super for babies too.

Jellybaby1

In my teens in the 70's I had heard of making your own face mask with porridge oats, and also face scrub. Wondrous!

eviltwin

mariaalice wrote: »

I had my first child 29 years ago and it was definitely different than today, about 3 years ago I was talking to a couple who were having their first baby and they were telling me they had paid a thousand euros for the buggy, I nearly fell over from shock I could not conceive how anyone could pay that much for a buggy.

The buggy for my first cost about 80 quid in 1997. Fast forward to 2009 when my son was born and we went into Mothercare and looked for a buggy only to be told they were now called "travel systems". We ended up getting one that was - thankfully - on sale 50% off. It cost just shy of 400 euros which we thought was mental but to think people spend 700+ on prams!!!!!!

My first car cost less than that. :eek:

amdublin

Yes the travel "system" thing makes me really mad :mad:

pwurple

1000 euro! Is it gold plated or something? Mine was brand new, a fancy 3-wheeler lie-flat one with snuggly covers and it was about 200.

Travel systems are a scam alright. Thanks be to goodness my grandmother got me that buggy or I might have fallen for the speil telling me I needed one.You want a monstrous car to store all the bits as well... I think they might be in cahoots with the mammy-wagon industry. Huge 4x4's or station wagons rolling around with 1 child in them.

The wipe warmer made me laugh... A friend of mine has one of those, I had forgotten all about that. She was miffed when she went to use my changing area one day (not a dedicated changing table either, oh my!), how could I possibly wipe my childs bum with a non-pre-heated wipe. hehe. I couldn't bring myself to mention I didn't have a plug-in electric bottle warmer either.

amdublin

Top 10 useless products for babies

http://shiveredsky.blogspot.ie/2006/12/top-10-most-ridiculous-products-for.html?m=1

looksee

Yup, a load of useless products.

EXCEPT the reins - or leash as she calls it. I don't see the problem on a child up to about 3 - 4. My kids had them. I can even remember wearing one, and it didn't warp me (well except for this preference ... never mind)

Much better to put on reins and let the child move about than hauling them by the hand without ever letting go. And if the child wants to hold hands, and sometimes they do, no problem.

I much prefer them to the twisty plastic wrist to wrist things that you see - at least with reins if the child trips you can generally save a serious tumble.

If this were a fashionable forum I would now be berated from a height!!

Jellybaby1

Yep, we had reins too. But then, one of ours was a runner! Couldn't keep up with him, especially when I was 9 months gone with our second. If I hadn't had the reins God knows where he'd be now! :eek:

Neyite

I think my lad is gonna need the reins. A right fidget he is so god help me when he starts crawling.

wandatowell

I'll be relying on hand-me-downs from my sister when I have my own kids.............actually now I think about not much has changed in 25 years

Chucken

From the useless list...The Baby Keeper! Wont this do the same job




The baby in the bucket thingy..how do you get the baby out?

Pull him up by the ears??? Or literally throw the baby out with the bath water?

:rolleyes:

seamus

amdublin wrote: »

Top 10 useless products for babies

My brother and his wife swear by the bucket bath, but we borrowed theirs and we found it quite difficult. The baby is sitting in the bath. Therefore it's next to impossible to properly get in to clean the undercarriage without lifting her up, negating the "hands free" sales point of the bath.
Also, it's supposed to work flawlessy and allow you to leave a 6 week old sitting in the bath without using your hands, but unfortunately 6 week olds don't seem to understand that and try to drown themselves at every opportunity.

Chucken wrote: »

Prevention is not better than the cure it seems.

We used to slatther it on bums at every change but now you wait until baby gets nappy rash...which of course he shouldnt cos of all the water and cotton wool

Yeah, we took a parenting course with a very experienced midwife and that was the advice. Clean water, cotton wool, bingo-bango the baby's bottom will be fine. "Don't use sudocrem, the baby's bottom will just get very sensitive". Of course after two weeks of trying to clean up monster nappies using just water and cotton wool, and no ointment afterwards, the result was serious nappy rash for us.
The MIL prescribed using baby lotion instead of water and slathering on the sudocrem and lo and behold we now have a lovely baby bottom with no soreness or rashes.

Other advice like "just one wipe on her lady parts is all she needs, you don't want to irritate it". Really? So when the poo has gone right up the front and the back three times a day I'm supposed to try catch it all in one go?

Chucken wrote: »

Can someone tell me why baby cant have a nice bath every night?

Dries out the skin. I think frequent bathing has been linked with eczema, but I never heard once a week. We were told every second day if it's necessary.

For some reason there seems to be this huge gulf between clinical recommendations and the reality. Clinically you can say that babies don't sweat much and have sensitive skin therefore less baths are better, but in reality the baby has been puking and crapping all over itself for the past seven days. I wish it was just sweat!

Jellybaby1

Chucken wrote: »

....The baby in the bucket thingy..how do you get the baby out? ....

I think they mean you to drain the babby off. A bit like draining the spuds!

Chucken

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I think they mean you to drain the babby off. A bit like draining the spuds!

:pac::pac::pac:

Alice1

Those freaky disembodied hands - janey, they are giving me the creeps.

Chucken

The one thing I do love though is the modern baby monitor. Having experienced cot death in our family, it was something I was totally terrified about. The movement sensor baby monitor that bleeps if the breathing stops for 20 seconds is the best invention ever.[/QUOTE]

Can we skip back to this?

Im curious about it. Lets suppose the alarm goes off, what do you do then?
I suppose Im more aware of things that can go wrong now than I was was with my own kids. I think I raised them in a daze

looksee

Maybe just picking the baby up would wake it enough to start breathing again, or at least you could try cpr http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Accidents-and-first-aid/Pages/CPR.aspx bottom of the page. Its a good question though.

Chucken

Ya, I was just thinking, how many people would go into cpr mode on a baby?

I was talking to a friend of mine who is in the red cross about this over Christmas. He's going to organise something for new/not so new parents, to teach basic first aid.

I think there has been 12 babies born in the town since September-ish. Quite a few for a small town. It'll be fun when they're all teenagers