Help getting into IT

Klair88

Hi all, basically for the last year and a half iv'e been really wanting a career in the IT industry. I know how tech minded i am and am good at problem solving etc. so i think its right for me. I have no experience or qualifications but am extremely eager.

Whats the best route to take? I'm thinking of doing the CompTia A+ and CompTia Network+ online courses through FAS, with a view to completing the CCNA course during the summer. Would this be the right way to progress into entry level network jobs? i have 2 friends who work in a small networking company and they tell me that as long as i have the CCNA, i can get a job with them. What are your thoughts?

NullZer0

What is your non-professional experience with IT?

Klair88

None besides being a mad gamer and knowing my way around a PC. I'm 24 and feel i want a career rather than a job so i don't mind starting from the bottom.

Can get work experience in a small networking company when i start my courses so ill get hands on experience with Cisco systems.

Tried doing a Web development/Database course but felt it wasn't for me. That's when i figured id be more into the Networking sides of IT. Is the compTia A+ and Network + the right courses to be starting off on?

Krusader

I had similar experience as you, did the A+, N+, CCNA, I would recommend doing the CCNA in the 2 exam route (you get 2 certs also CCENT, CCNA) if you have no hands on experience, also I would just do the A+ or Windows 7 then the CCNA as much of the N+ is covered in the 1st part of the CCNA/CCENT

A good guide to what exams are needed
http://certification.comptia.org/certroadmap

Free Exam videos for A+ N+ etc.
http://www.professormesser.com/

NullZer0

Personally, I don't put much value in A+ or N+ certification because they are slow and teach the basics that you could teach yourself without a certification.

For me, I started with MCSA but after some time I moved to Cisco certification.

So - If you are working with Cisco kit, I would recommend making a start on CCENT certification.
Everything you need is here.

There are no shortage of jobs out there for good network engineers with a little bit of experience and common sense.
The sky is the limit in my opinion.

Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions.

Klair88

Thanks for the replies and advice lads. Much appreciated.

Actually i'm due in hospital for surgery sometime this month(hopefully) so i want to do the A+, N+ while i'm in there and during recovering. Wont be right again til about March so id like to get them both done by then just so i know a bit going into the CCNA.

Will probably do the CCNA in 2 parts as it seems easier. Like i said 2 of my mates work in networking and they told me when i start the CCNA course i can do work experience with them, and then when i complete it and work hard enough there's a job there for me!

Suppose i'm just a bit nervous as iv'e no experience in the field, will be saving most of my dole in the credit union to take out a loan around spring to do the CCNA. Want to pass it first go and have no repeats. Couple that with the 3 months ill need to save the money and recover from surgery, you can probably see when i want to do the A+, N+.

Really want to be fully prepared and since FAS can give me the 2 CompTia certs free online, i think its perfect for me.

dozy doctor

iRock wrote: »

Personally, I don't put much value in A+ or N+ certification because they are slow and teach the basics that you could teach yourself without a certification.

For me, I started with MCSA but after some time I moved to Cisco certification.
This is the best decision I have ever made and 5 years later I now work for a well known vendor

So - If you are working with Cisco kit, I would recommend making a start on CCENT certification.
Everything you need is here.

Hi iRock,

Cheers for your post.... I recently bought a groupon deal for a CISCO certifiedbIT network training package which you can sew here https://www.groupon.ie/deals/national-deals/Career-Match/15143781

I was then going to do the A+ but it is so expensive so I am glad I saw your post....
What do you think of this online course in CISCO?

And for sure I will also pick up that book you recommend....
Just out of curiosity, agar sort of firm could I expect to try and gain employment with?

NullZer0

dozy doctor wrote: »

Hi iRock,

Cheers for your post.... I recently bought a groupon deal for a CISCO certifiedbIT network training package which you can sew here https://www.groupon.ie/deals/national-deals/Career-Match/15143781

I was then going to do the A+ but it is so expensive so I am glad I saw your post....
What do you think of this online course in CISCO?

And for sure I will also pick up that book you recommend....

So, I'm sure the course is fine.
However - at the end of the day, you can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The book that I posted is more than enough because you will be able to work through it at your own pace. You will also need access to equipment or a simulator should be just fine for CCENT.

I think its important that you enjoy it. This will make it much much easier and you will be more successful because of it. I failed the CCNA 3-4 times when I started out so persistence does pay off Had I not enjoyed it, I probably wouldn't have tried again.

What type of company could you expect to work in?
There are alot of different companies out there looking for network engineers but usually you will want to go higher than CCNA - at least to CCNP.

Have a search on the jobs websites for Network Engineer.

NullZer0

Klair88 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and advice lads. Much appreciated.

Actually i'm due in hospital for surgery sometime this month(hopefully) so i want to do the A+, N+ while i'm in there and during recovering. Wont be right again til about March so id like to get them both done by then just so i know a bit going into the CCNA.

Will probably do the CCNA in 2 parts as it seems easier. Like i said 2 of my mates work in networking and they told me when i start the CCNA course i can do work experience with them, and then when i complete it and work hard enough there's a job there for me!

Suppose i'm just a bit nervous as iv'e no experience in the field, will be saving most of my dole in the credit union to take out a loan around spring to do the CCNA. Want to pass it first go and have no repeats. Couple that with the 3 months ill need to save the money and recover from surgery, you can probably see when i want to do the A+, N+.

Really want to be fully prepared and since FAS can give me the 2 CompTia certs free online, i think its perfect for me.

If I was to start again, I would start from CCENT.
Thats not to say it's the way you should do things.

From my point of view - I feel I wasted my time on Windows Networking.
A+ is Trivial and Network+ is not much use for me.

Make up your own mind but try to stick with systems or networking. There is more opportunity for growth if you want to specialize in one area (at least in most cases).

Cuddlesworth

iRock wrote: »

Personally, I don't put much value in A+ or N+ certification because they are slow and teach the basics that you could teach yourself without a certification.

If you can't self study for the A+ or N+ and complete each exam in under a week when not working, your not cut out for a decent career in IT support. I would go so far as to say that for the CCNA as well but with a timeframe of 2-3 weeks. Its a very basic cert for networking.

If you want to get up to good money and stay on it, your looking at spending a considerable amount of your "personal" time upskilling for the remainder of your working life.

I make a point of saying career above. The amount of sub-par CCNA graduates being pushed out of FAS year on year is only going to have a negative effect on wages and the ability for new entrants to distinguish themselves, filling the basic job roles with lifers who have no drive to update their skill sets and move on.

NullZer0

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I would go so far as to say that for the CCNA as well but with a timeframe of 2-3 weeks. Its a very basic cert for networking.

The CCNA has gotten much harder recently.
I would say, with no experience - you need about 2 months of intense study to pass. At least I feel thats what I would need if starting again.

However, when you weigh in all the time spent not knowing "what to do", it will take much longer. The trick is to study the right things, in the right way on the first time around. Unfortunately, I didn't do this

trxking

You reckon having the A+,N+ and CCNA would be acceptable when applying for entry jobs??

NullZer0

trxking wrote: »

You reckon having the A+,N+ and CCNA would be acceptable when applying for entry jobs??

Depends - thats a difficult question.
You will find it difficult to get the first job for sure, but thats the hardest part.

Not just having the certification but actually understanding it is important.
If you are coming from scratch - try CCNA and get a helpdesk job for a year or so to become familiar with processes and how companies work... it may not be exactly what your after but its the first step on the ladder. After that, things progress faster.

Just my opinion of course, there are many different cases out there. See what others have to say.

moneymad

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If you can't self study for the A+ or N+ and complete each exam in under a week when not working, your not cut out for a decent career in IT support. I would go so far as to say that for the CCNA as well but with a timeframe of 2-3 weeks. Its a very basic cert for networking.

Yes if you are Albert Einstein.
The be proficient in subnetting alone for the exam alone takes weeks.

I'd agree with you on the A+ or N+.

Cuddlesworth

I've said this before here, the best certs to get for a entry level job role are the A+, N+ and the Microsoft Office Certs. Having a self taught Microsoft Office specialist or master on your CV puts you well ahead of all other candidates for entry level helpdesk roles.

Keep in mind that other candidates applying with most likely be Comp Sci degree holders or people with years of experience in similar roles. Both of which make them strong contenders but can also be classed as negative points under good management. In my last job, the helpdesk has solely been staffed with Graduates or people doing degrees part time(generally already working in the company). And it wasn't that a degree was a absolute requirement for the role, it was simply that there were no relative skill sets in other applicants without degrees to show any motivation or passion for the industry in their CV's.

areyawell

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I've said this before here, the best certs to get for a entry level job role are the A+, N+ and the Microsoft Office Certs. Having a self taught Microsoft Office specialist or master on your CV puts you well ahead of all other candidates for entry level helpdesk roles.

Keep in mind that other candidates applying with most likely be Comp Sci degree holders or people with years of experience in similar roles. Both of which make them strong contenders but can also be classed as negative points under good management. In my last job, the helpdesk has solely been staffed with Graduates or people doing degrees part time(generally already working in the company). And it wasn't that a degree was a absolute requirement for the role, it was simply that there were no relative skill sets in other applicants without degrees to show any motivation or passion for the industry in their CV's.

You are talking complete and utter nonsense here. Are you a recruiter?

NullZer0

moneymad wrote: »

Yes if you are Albert Einstein.
The be proficient in subnetting alone for the exam alone takes weeks.

I'd agree with you on the A+ or N+.

I see where you coming from but the thing is... subnetting is so easy that it's difficult. One day the penny just drops and it makes sense... its not a difficult thing to learn at all.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I've said this before here, the best certs to get for a entry level job role are the A+, N+ and the Microsoft Office Certs. Having a self taught Microsoft Office specialist or master on your CV puts you well ahead of all other candidates for entry level helpdesk roles.

Keep in mind that other candidates applying with most likely be Comp Sci degree holders or people with years of experience in similar roles. Both of which make them strong contenders but can also be classed as negative points under good management. In my last job, the helpdesk has solely been staffed with Graduates or people doing degrees part time(generally already working in the company). And it wasn't that a degree was a absolute requirement for the role, it was simply that there were no relative skill sets in other applicants without degrees to show any motivation or passion for the industry in their CV's.

Comp Sci graduates - years of experience?
How much does experience really count?
Experience will teach you how a company works, how processes work. It will teach you about change management, team work and project planning and implementation.


Microsoft Office Certification is a joke. If you want to work in networking / real sys admin work you need to become familiar with standards, protocols and various implementations. Monkey see, monkey do from a Microsoft book doesn't cut it.

A CV is not meant to showcase motivation or passion - that's the problem. Its an old, irrelevant system.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion here but I would advise anyone going for a career in IT to set the bar high. If you're not willing to study / commit to it then its probably not for you.

Cuddlesworth

moneymad wrote: »

Yes if you are Albert Einstein.
The be proficient in subnetting alone for the exam alone takes weeks.

I'd agree with you on the A+ or N+.

With Chris Bryant's subnetting workbook, it took me six hours to understand subnetting and about 7 days of picking up the book for 15 minutes and working through a couple of questions to get it to the point where I could breeze the CCNA. I'm not dumb but I'm not a genius by any ones standards, ipv4 subnetting isn't difficult.

As for the other poster, what part about being certified in Microsoft office products would be bad for a role which is mainly password resets, basic troubleshooting and usage questions about programs. The CCNA, while a basic networking cert, is a useless cert for the actual starting helpdesk role. Most company's have separated the physical aspect of computer repair to 2nd level support or contractors, meaning the A+ is relativity useless. If you are applying to a basic level 1 helpdesk role with a CCNA, your overqualified.

iRock wrote: »

I see where you coming from but the thing is... subnetting is so easy that it's difficult. One day the penny just drops and it makes sense... its not a difficult thing to learn at all.

As above, I would recommend Chris Bryant to anybody trying to learn subnetting.

iRock wrote: »

Comp Sci graduates - years of experience?
How much does experience really count?
Experience will teach you how a company works, how processes work. It will teach you about change management, team work and project planning and implementation.

As I said, large amounts of experience was a minus in my last company when it reached the hiring manager for low level roles. Anybody who has been in a level 1 type role for huge amounts of time with nothing to show for it were not wanted, they were considered to be inherently lazy. But your CV still had to make it past HR for large company's unless it was a direct recommendation. And what they are trained to look for is degrees and experience. Better to try and hit all the bases, rather then rule yourself out of the larger company's.

iRock wrote: »

Microsoft Office Certification is a joke. If you want to work in networking / real sys admin work you need to become familiar with standards, protocols and various implementations. Monkey see, monkey do from a Microsoft book doesn't cut it.

You know, they aren't actually that bad. The excel master stuff is pretty interesting.

But either way, I agree with the above. But if your looking for a helpdesk role(remember networking isn't for everyone and their are not exactly huge amounts of direct starting roles), its a tool to get in the door. Once there, move onto something like a CCNA or MCSE/MCSA. I would hire the guy with two years IT experience and a CCNA earned on the job, then the guy wet behind the ears with only a CCNA.

iRock wrote: »

A CV is not meant to showcase motivation or passion - that's the problem. Its an old, irrelevant system.

But it can showcase motivation and passion. If there is motivation or passion to actually highlight. The trick to a CV isn't to point out that you came in every day and did your job. Its to show that you came in and changed your job.

As a direct example, my friend recently left a high spec role. And when he left, the job spec had changed to include all the skill sets he had brought into it and they were now deemed essential to the role. Went straight onto his CV.

iRock wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion here but I would advise anyone going for a career in IT to set the bar high. If you're not willing to study / commit to it then its probably not for you.

Agreed. It never stops. Depressing in some ways. On the plus hard, I can safely say my job is boring at times but my future work never seems that way.

areyawell

A lot of ill informed nonsense in this thread.

Basically OP do the CCNA and a couple of other certs and put these on your C.V. and try to get graduate roles or entry level roles. When you get one you'll be grand. You'll be ahead of graduates for a lot IT roles as a lot of graduates don't have these certs for certain roles while graduates will be ahead in other area's.


you might start out with Active Directory, setting up new workstations, hardware/software troubleshooting at the start and then moving on to things like switches and hubs with someone looking over your shoulder with no pressure to see if you are setting them up right.

After a while might get into looking at Firewalls, Intrusion detection systems etc. The possibilities are endless!

moneymad

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

With Chris Bryant's subnetting workbook, it took me six hours to understand subnetting and about 7 days of picking up the book for 15 minutes and working through a couple of questions to get it to the point where I could breeze the CCNA. I'm not dumb but I'm not a genius by any ones standards, ipv4 subnetting isn't difficult.

That's fine until you have to move along and understand other areas of the ccna.
You make it sound like a breeze.

Krusader

The trick to networking is to understand why, why do we need ARP, STP, DNS, DHCP, TCP/UDP. Know why and your half way there, the CCNA is about this. IPv4 Subnetting isnt difficult, just find the incremental number, before the exam starts you should have your subnetting table jotted out and maybe some commands also.

I'd agree with Cuddlesworth that having MS Office Certs is a plus for Desktop Roles, especially Excel or Access

PatrickMc

Klair88 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and advice lads. Much appreciated.

Actually i'm due in hospital for surgery sometime this month(hopefully) so i want to do the A+, N+ while i'm in there and during recovering. Wont be right again til about March so id like to get them both done by then just so i know a bit going into the CCNA.

Will probably do the CCNA in 2 parts as it seems easier. Like i said 2 of my mates work in networking and they told me when i start the CCNA course i can do work experience with them, and then when i complete it and work hard enough there's a job there for me!

Suppose i'm just a bit nervous as iv'e no experience in the field, will be saving most of my dole in the credit union to take out a loan around spring to do the CCNA. Want to pass it first go and have no repeats. Couple that with the 3 months ill need to save the money and recover from surgery, you can probably see when i want to do the A+, N+.

Really want to be fully prepared and since FAS can give me the 2 CompTia certs free online, i think its perfect for me.

Klair88 not sure why you are paying for the CCNA as FAS do it as well ?

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

ipv4 subnetting isn't difficult.

CCNA has been updated IPv6 is on the curriculum now as well as IPv4.

NullZer0

PatrickMc wrote: »

CCNA has been updated IPv6 is on the curriculum now as well as IPv4.

Yes, but IPv6 is minimal in all of the Routing and Switching track at the moment.

donaghs

Klair88 wrote: »

Hi all, basically for the last year and a half iv'e been really wanting a career in the IT industry. I know how tech minded i am and am good at problem solving etc. so i think its right for me. I have no experience or qualifications but am extremely eager.

Whats the best route to take? I'm thinking of doing the CompTia A+ and CompTia Network+ online courses through FAS, with a view to completing the CCNA course during the summer. Would this be the right way to progress into entry level network jobs? i have 2 friends who work in a small networking company and they tell me that as long as i have the CCNA, i can get a job with them. What are your thoughts?

Considered any 3rd level IT courses? May stand to you better in the long run.
If a four year Computer Science degree seems to long, if you already have another degree you could look at doing a one-year post-grad conversion diploma. e.g. http://graduatestudies.nuim.ie/prospectivepostgrads/taughtcourses/scienceandengineering/mhg54

Klair88

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I kinda knew FAS do the CCNA too i'm meeting an officer next week to discuss options.

Great advice here from some and i hope it helps others understand how to get into a networking role. I am in an enviable position as my best friend has the ability in work to hire me if i get the CCNA done ASAP. So that's my goal.

iRock is right though, ill be setting the bar high once i get my CCNA and entry job and will be very willingly to study hard and up-skill constantly once i get my foot in the door.

I just need to start off first! Thanks again for all the replies.

PatrickMc

iRock wrote: »

Yes, but IPv6 is minimal in all of the Routing and Switching track at the moment.

Totally agree but you still have to know it to pass. What I was trying to say was theirs a lot more info to learn on this years CCNA that's all.

Have to say this has been a good debate on the subject.

Cheers for all the info iRock I'm an avid reader of your common sense posts and I'm not taking da Micheal !

All the best for 2013

mark renton

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If you can't self study for the A+ or N+ and complete each exam in under a week when not working, your not cut out for a decent career in IT support. I would go so far as to say that for the CCNA as well but with a timeframe of 2-3 weeks. Its a very basic cert for networking.

If you want to get up to good money and stay on it, your looking at spending a considerable amount of your "personal" time upskilling for the remainder of your working life.

I make a point of saying career above. The amount of sub-par CCNA graduates being pushed out of FAS year on year is only going to have a negative effect on wages and the ability for new entrants to distinguish themselves, filling the basic job roles with lifers who have no drive to update their skill sets and move on.

2-3 weeks for ccna? Are you extracting the urine here pal?

mark renton

john47832 wrote: »

2-3 weeks for ccna? Are you extracting the urine here pal?

Please disregard the question, I read the rest of ur posts, I know now ur talking crap...

Jelly 292

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If you can't self study for the A+ or N+ and complete each exam in under a week when not working, your not cut out for a decent career in IT support. I would go so far as to say that for the CCNA as well but with a timeframe of 2-3 weeks. Its a very basic cert for networking.

If you want to get up to good money and stay on it, your looking at spending a considerable amount of your "personal" time upskilling for the remainder of your working life.

I make a point of saying career above. The amount of sub-par CCNA graduates being pushed out of FAS year on year is only going to have a negative effect on wages and the ability for new entrants to distinguish themselves, filling the basic job roles with lifers who have no drive to update their skill sets and move on.

I call BS on this!! Have you actually got any of these certs??

Sub Par CCNA's? what exactly do you mean? A CCNA is a CCNA if you got it from self study, FAS or moon base alpha. If you pass your CCNA you got bloody great foundation for the future. Not very brain dumpable imo of thats what you mean.

For OP

A+ /MS certs/MS Office Skills- Help desk/ desktop support/support team leader role eventually.

Net+ is an odd one, it is a vendor neutral cert that has a very wide range but not to deep. Touches on a lot of stuff but does not go into subjects much. Handy bunched in with the above thing.

BUT

If you want to do solely Network work just save time and hassle and start your ICND1, it assumes you know nothing. Watse of time doing A+ and Net+ if a) you know PC hardware and
b) you want to do networking.

CCNA is the best start you can get imo, great cert that leads to a world of even better ones. Tough as hell and they expire but thats what makes them worth the effort.

EDIT.

Also coming from Scratch ICND1+2= CCNA, very doable in under 6 months if you put the time in, ignore people who say otherwise.

T-K-O

ICND1 is very possible in a few weeks. Once you wrap your head around sub-netting the remaining material is fairly basic.

Dont let the first part fool you, the level of difficulty increases pretty sharply in ICND2. ACL's, Inter Vlan routing, routing protocols etc, you need to practice over and over until it becomes second nature.

Dudes on here saying that the CCNA is easy are wrong, especially for guys coming in blind with no experience. Agree with the above poster 6 months is very doable but be prepared to work.

At 24 you should consider a part time degree

MRTULES

Sorry to hijack but I am loving this discussion.
I was planning on doing A+ and N+ myself. I tried A+ on line and used professor messer vids but struggled with it. It wasn't the content I was having trouble with( although some of it did seem a little out dated), more so the sitting through 3+ hours of videos at a time. I think I would be better off with a class room environment. My whole reason for doing these is to see which area of IT I am most interested in possibly pursuing a career in.
What I am wondering is the following:

1, I do not know if I would be into networking or not so would doing the A+ and N+ give me enough insight into to make a decision?

2, would these also give me an idea of other areas and help me find out an area I might like.

3, Is there any other course people might suggest that would cover a broad range of topics?

Thanks in advance for any comments you have.