Retailers and the Xmas Period.

Procrastastudy

Dudara - please move this to after hours if you feel it's more appropriate. It's an honest question though perhaps not 100% in keeping with the forum but I can't think of anywhere more appropriate.

Something I've wondered and would like people's opinions on. Next have said they will be opening at 6am on boxing day in the UK - here I'm not sure what the story is but I'd like to share my experience of retailing at xmas and wonder what other people's thoughts are.

Retailers in Ireland used to typically close early on Xmas eve (3pm) and stay closed Xmas and Stephen's day opening again on the 27th. More and more retailers are now opening on Stephens day and some as in the example above are opening at silly times in the morning to create false demand.

The amount of work required to move, even a small sized operation, from Xmas mode to Sale mode is huge and requires staff to be in stores while they are closed (either Xmas eve or before opening on Stephens day). What are people's thoughts? I have to admit it used to ruin Xmas for me. Notwithstanding I had to travel some distance I couldn't have a drink or even a particularly late night and I spent the entire day knackered.

What are people's thoughts? Should retailers be allowed to open Stephen's Day?

Kintarō Hattori

Where there is demand, absolutely. I worked in High Street retail for 10 years and each time we were open on St. Stephen's Day, we were phenomenally busy. People came in to spend vouchers, take advantage of sales and of course to return unwanted presents.

In retail you make half of your years profit during the Christmas period. That's not just in the run up to the big day but from St. Stephen's Day right on into January. By not opening when there is demand you're potentially putting jobs and even businesses themselves at risk.

As I said, where there's demand for shops to be open I don't see the harm in them trading.

Ken.

To be honest its our fault. When I say our I mean consumers. If the demand wasn't there shops wouldn't open. I remember working in Dunnes stores in 1997 when the store in Newbridge done 24 hour opening for the first time.

Everyone said it was a waste of time,no one would show up. I started at midnight and for the first hour their was not one single customer. 1.10am it was like the whole of the town had descended on the place. In 3.5 hours Dunnes took in a week and a half's take. The following year nearly every Dunnes and most tesco's opened 24 hours in the run up to Christmas.

cookie1977

Bobby Kerr this morning on newstalk was talking about this (Insomnia/Dragons Den fame). He said he loved coming in early stephens day and working late christmas eve because people were so nice and you were guaranteed a bit of cash (his words paraphrased).

As long as people want it I see shops meeting that need. I don't see a huge problem with it. Although I sympathise with workers who would prefer to have the time off.

GreeBo

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Where there is demand, absolutely. I worked in High Street retail for 10 years and each time we were open on St. Stephen's Day, we were phenomenally busy. People came in to spend vouchers, take advantage of sales and of course to return unwanted presents.

In retail you make half of your years profit during the Christmas period. That's not just in the run up to the big day but from St. Stephen's Day right on into January. By not opening when there is demand you're potentially putting jobs and even businesses themselves at risk.

As I said, where there's demand for shops to be open I don't see the harm in them trading.

Not if nowhere is open...

Procrastastudy

Just something I should have mentioned. How much money do you think is lost by not opening Xmas day? Surely if everyone was closed on the 26th no one would lose any money - people would just spend it on the 27th?

cookie1977 wrote: »

Bobby Kerr this morning on newstalk was talking about this (Insomnia/Dragons Den fame). He said he loved coming in early stephens day and working late christmas eve because people were so nice and you were guaranteed a bit of cash (his words paraphrased).

As long as people want it I see shops meeting that need. I don't see a huge problem with it. Although I sympathise with workers who would prefer to have the time off.

Most large chain retailers don't allow staff to take tips. I'd actually have less of a problem with it if they did.

Gumbi

Consumers will spend money either way. The shops are just making sure they get a piece of it. To think that money won't be spent simply by closing the shops on Stephen's Day is quite naive in my opinion.

Kintarō Hattori

GreeBo wrote: »

Not if nowhere is open...

There'll always be some place open taking in the business that you could have had, had you been open.

cookie1977

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Most large chain retailers don't allow staff to take tips. I'd actually have less of a problem with it if they did.

Well I'm not sure if he was remenising or speaking as the boss.

TheDriver

Personally I think if everywhere was closed Stephens Day then we would all come out shopping on the following day. Isn't Christmas Day the biggest online shopping day of the year?

wyndham

It's similar to the Sunday opening argument and it's a tragedy of the commons. If shop A is open, shop B must be open also or will lose custom. Shop A opens a little earlier and closes later, so shop B follows suit.

From experience tourists from Germany and Austria are always amazed to find that shops are open as normal here on Sundays, as they have very strict laws about it. Up to a only a few years ago, shops closed at lunchtime on Saturday and didn't reopen until Monday.

Kintarō Hattori

wyndham wrote: »

From experience tourists from Germany and Austria are always amazed to find that shops are open as normal here on Sundays, as they have very strict laws about it. Up to a only a few years ago, shops closed at lunchtime on Saturday and didn't reopen until Monday.

Which as someone who works Monday-Friday with little free time at lunch, this would peeve me right off. I'm delighted the majority of Shops are open at the weekend.

Stheno

wyndham wrote: »

It's similar to the Sunday opening argument and it's a tragedy of the commons. If shop A is open, shop B must be open also or will lose custom. Shop A opens a little earlier and closes later, so shop B follows suit.

From experience tourists from Germany and Austria are always amazed to find that shops are open as normal here on Sundays, as they have very strict laws about it. Up to a only a few years ago, shops closed at lunchtime on Saturday and didn't reopen until Monday.

There were 24 hour shops in the 80s

Sunny Dayz

It's down to internet sales that stores are open on st. Stephens day. If bricks and mortar stores stayed closed on st stephens day, the money would otherwise be spent online.

Sunny Dayz

But it's unfair on the workers and their families. My sister has to work st. Stephens day in Dublin. She will spend tomorrow traveling home, enjoy Christmas day at home, then someone is going to have to drive her back to Dublin early on Stephens morning as there probably won't be any buses or trains. For us, st stephens day was always for going around visiting friends and relations.

Kintarō Hattori

I don't mean to sound harsh but if you work in retail then you must expect to work during the Christmas period. As already stated, it's when 50% of retails profits are made.

If you're in retail and don't want to work Christmas- find another job.

GreeBo

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

There'll always be some place open taking in the business that you could have had, had you been open.

But is that not the point of this thread....that no where should be allowed to be open, so they dont compete with each other over who can be open the earliest for the longest?

WildCardDoW

I work in retail, we aren't open until the 27th! Always fear there will be on year when they change their minds, but think the people higher up realise this is the time of the year when staff are working their hardest and need that extra day!

Also, on a personal level I disagree with it, at this stage the bigger retailers should simply have an online sale and open their doors as normal on the 27th, the smaller guys probably aren't open anyway. Also, I guarantee that the people in head office will be off!

Posy

I think it's a bit sad that people can't wait an extra day to go to the sales.
Shopping during a busy sale is my idea of hell! I would prefer to be at home with my selection box and Christmas films.

Guy:Incognito

GreeBo wrote: »

But is that not the point of this thread....that no where should be allowed to be open, so they dont compete with each other over who can be open the earliest for the longest?

Shops are private businesses. They should be allowed open whenever they want.

keithclancy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Shops are private businesses. They should be allowed open whenever they want.

Sorry, I'd disagree with that.
The workers need some time off like you get in any job.

Guy:Incognito

keithclancy wrote: »

Sorry, I'd disagree with that.
The workers need some time off like you get in any job.

There are plenty of businesses that run 24-7 all year round.

People are under no obligation to take a job in retail. The owners can and should be free to decide when they open their own shops.

Ken.

I worked in security for 5 years. For 4 of those my shifts were 8am-8pm Christmas eve, 8pm Christmas day to 8am 26th and 8pm 26th to 8am 27th. Then for new year I was either 8am-8pm new years eve and new years day or the night shift. 3 years in a row I seen in the new year sitting in a hut on a site.

I fücking hate Christmas so didn't mind.

The Jman

I was feeling a bit depressed about having to work all day tomorrow Ken but your post has made me a little happier about my job. For this I shall be eternally grateful

keithclancy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

There are plenty of businesses that run 24-7 all year round.

People are under no obligation to take a job in retail. The owners can and should be free to decide when they open their own shops.

Nah, still disagree, there no need for it, tbh I find it a bit bizarre that people need to go out and buy something immediately and cannot wait for 1 day.

Getting butter from Tesco is hardly life or death now is it.

Guy:Incognito

keithclancy wrote: »

Nah, still disagree, .

You disagree that someone should be able to do what they want with their own business? I find that very odd.

borderlinemeath

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You disagree that someone should be able to do what they want with their own business? I find that very odd.

It's actually the PLCs/multinationals that are opening St Stephens day. The majority of privately owned businesses tend not to open, they're usually owned by people who have actually worked as retailers for years and recognise the need for the extra day for the workforce to recharge their batteries.


St Stephens day is a public holiday. Pretty much every bank/public holiday throughout the year retailers open limited hours, usually mimicking Sunday trading times, typically 12-6. But the likes of Next managed to make a balls up of that with their ridiculous 5.30am opening hours. The likes of BTs, Arnotts, Debenhams followed but at least they don't open at stupid o'clock.

For people that work in retail that have to travel home any distance for Christmas day, it's so disheartening heading back in a few hours later so somebody can get a few quid off a handbag or a TV. That's if they can get to work on time via the limited public transport in operation.

For what it's worth it's a bit ridiculous that shoppers can't wait the extra day, certainly there's vital services that have to work but at least they (hopefully) get a few days off at some point over the festive season. Retail workers really get a raw deal over Christmas, with very little in the way of thanks, extra pay or even a bit of gratitude. Consumers can be the biggest load of w@nkers particularly pre christmas rush and post christmas sales, treating workers like something they stepped in, not to mention the usual suspects that try and return something that they got as a present, with no receipt and they want full price value for it. And when you tell them that it's now only €half price, and that's all their entitled to they scream blue murder about their non existent rights....

I don't miss retail...

Corruptedmorals

I think it's ridiculous. There should be more than two 'sacred' days (the other is Easter Sunday). If they all just opened on the 27th I'd have no problem with that. This year I was given the option of working either Stephen's Day or New Year's Day. Working for Dunnes before now and for all of their enormous faults as a company, they never opened on Stephen's Day and not that many open on New Year's Day (some do). Next are the ones who started the Stephen's Day trend. I hate them for that, and for forcing their staff to work insane hours on top of that.

I also know that in the case of shopping centres, centre management will put pressure on some retailers to open to make it worth their while to open the centre, and to spread the cost around. This absolutely happened in the case of one shopping centre.

Most retail workers will be working full hours 6+ days in a row until Christmas Day, and many will be back in on Stephen's Day. What kind of rest or Christmas quality time is that? Not to mention of course, the Christmas period and sales period are insanely busy and see a sharp rise in rude and impatient customers stressed out of their heads. I think shops should be banned from opening on the 26th- if none of them can open, then there's no pressure to open to match competitor X.

P. Breathnach

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You disagree that someone should be able to do what they want with their own business? I find that very odd.

There are many respects in which people can not do what they want with their own businesses: price regulation; health & safety issues; public health; noise nuisance; you name it.

Retailers should also consider staff welfare.

We are no longer living in Dickensian times, even though some people seem to hanker after those conditions.

Gumbi

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

I think it's ridiculous. There should be more than two 'sacred' days (the other is Easter Sunday). If they all just opened on the 27th I'd have no problem with that. This year I was given the option of working either Stephen's Day or New Year's Day. Working for Dunnes before now and for all of their enormous faults as a company, they never opened on Stephen's Day and not that many open on New Year's Day (some do). Next are the ones who started the Stephen's Day trend. I hate them for that, and for forcing their staff to work insane hours on top of that.

I also know that in the case of shopping centres, centre management will put pressure on some retailers to open to make it worth their while to open the centre, and to spread the cost around. This absolutely happened in the case of one shopping centre.

Most retail workers will be working full hours 6+ days in a row until Christmas Day, and many will be back in on Stephen's Day. What kind of rest or Christmas quality time is that? Not to mention of course, the Christmas period and sales period are insanely busy and see a sharp rise in rude and impatient customers stressed out of their heads. I think shops should be banned from opening on the 26th- if none of them can open, then there's no pressure to open to match competitor X.

Ultimately supply will meet demand. The consumer has driven the shops to do this. If there were such a ban, the same amount of money would be spent, albeit not in Irish shops, in which case, would you rather see that same money spent online? The money going to companies in other countries? Companies that don't support Irish jobs?

Either way, the money will be spent. We are a consumer nation. Ultimately, the shops are just meeting a demand set by the consumer.

Stheno

I used work in tech support for american pc users.

As if that in itself wasn't bad enough, busiest three days of the year were Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Stephens Day

9pm - 8am I did on those days three years in a row, same with new years eve/day

Also worked Y2K new years eve, the company did shut down our centre for 2 hours so we got to have mini celebration as the americans were a few hours behind us.