DEPRESSION SUPPORT- Anonymous posting is possible, see note in post #1.

PeterCasey

Called to a house last night collect money for contract work asked by the person to call when he has the money, went to the farm yard no light on anywhere walked around because his car was there I had one of my brothers with me he said there was somebody sitting inside no response he lived on his own fifty years of age eventually we got his attension. We started to talk between knackers , undesirable people calling the weather this year his whole world was caving in he was totally in fear he collapsed in front of us so we got him into the local hospital. You don't no what is going on with people we should all take care of one another he was one person under everybodys nose that nearly slipped away. Take care out there it certainly made myself my brother think and the locality we got the guards involved they are going to set up a text alert in the area.

Dozer1

Must be alot of people feeling the stresses of life this time of year, un-seasonal weather, long winter and cows calving is not an easy time.

I'm struggling to juggle it all badly at the moment sucklers calving and the day job is busy means home life is very stressful, reading back on the posts here always help.

hope anybody that's in trouble can see a way through these tough few weeks.

TomOnBoard

Dozer1 wrote: »

hope anybody that's in trouble can see a way through these tough few weeks.

+1

Take care yourself...

gr8 m8

Hello.

I was on this before but my name was hilux Mike I think. I suffered from depression and anxiety and the people on this helped me for which I thank you!

Well I'm sitting here now in the shed looking at the animals, I lost an animal today. The first in 2 years! I had a nervous breakdown in 2014 and did the therapy and all that. At the time of the breakdown i rang the department for help and they came in like a storm.

I failed in a suicide attempt a month ago and rang the department looking for help again! I told them that I was rapidly running out of fodder and the bills were mounting up. They came in last week to do the herd test with me and couldn't have been nicer, explained how human welfare was more important than animal welfare at the end of the day and said that they were going to help me!

So we got to work! The mood drastically changed so quickly, "haha, you won't get much for these animals", speaking in slang and giving each other winks and ignoring me if I ask a question. I blew up on them, told them that I want to know what they are talking about and it wasn't long before I got a dressing down.

I was told that no one else was going to help me and I should show them gratitude. Ones words were "no one else would put up with this ****". I apologised and explained that I was stressed out of my mind and was told that they would address it later!

They were in such a hurry to get finished before lunch on both days and when it was all done I said that I have 6 bales of silage left and what was I going to do. The vet said "let's face it, you don't like farming anyway!"

Long story short, they told me that because this was there second visit to the farm that they are going to make me sell the herd! I know that I let things go, I know that I left things get on top of me. But I lost 1 animal in 2 years and had enough fodder that with rationing I got through until tonight.

The cows have their heads down now and for the first time in I can't remember how long they are not balling at me but I don't know what i am going to do tomorrow!

After the department told me what they wanted me to do I broke down and was told there was no point in getting upset! They were talking about the next job they were off to and where they were stopping for lunch when I went up to close the gate and they were changing out of their dirty clothes so as not to dirty there fancy jeeps!

I'm heartbroken.

greysides

There is help available for fodder. Try Teagasc and the local IFA. I believe there's a Dept helpline too. Well done on holding things together so far and for posting here. You're not alone, even here in Wexford there's a lot starting to find themselves in trouble. Are there any neighbours you might ring, some may have some spare fodder for someone they know?
For yourself, Aware provides support & information for people who experience depression. Freephone 1800 80 48 48. You know the benefit of sharing as you are posting here. These people are the professionals.

gr8 m8

Hello.

Jesus, the neighbor next door has 20 cattle and about 100 bales of hay and won't part with any! One of those men that follows me to the Mart to see what I make and comes into the yard to see what I am doing but he knows I'm against the wall so I haven't seen him in a while!

I rang the department 2 weeks ago to see if I could zero graze my glas land and I still got no reply! They don't even try to feign interest anymore when I ring them!

greysides

Ring around, I know I'm in an area that's not hit as hard as others but here there are some with excess still so do try. You may have seen the Fodder Crisis thread in the main forum, there is discussion there that may give you some options.

Genghis Cant

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmerschemespayments/foddertransportsupportmeasure2018/frequentlyaskedquestions/

Latest Info above from the Dept in relation to the current fodder crisis. You might get some info there.

Local Co-op s seem a very good port of call too.

Ignore your neighbour you mentioned above, lads like that are the exception not the rule.

There are people out there that want to help.
This is a difficult time for many farmers, keep talking and looking for a path and you'll get over this hump.
Live horse and you'll get grass! The warm sun on our backs ain't that far away!
Keep posting here and between us all we'll try and help you.
Best of luck.

Upstream

Sorry to hear you have been going through a tough time. Everyone can go through hard times, so please don't feel bad for that. This farming forum is a great resource, with lots of people in the same boat together. When times are tough get help anywhere you can find it, things may not be as bad as you think. Greysides has posted some fantastic resources. Maybe use the forum here to list anything that you're worrying about and get things off your chest, and pick up some good advice and encouragement. We can all help encourage each other along.

capslock88

Sorry to hear youre down..good advice above..most coops are bringing in fodder thats not too dear and i'm sure they wouldn't let you with nothing if they knew you were in dire straits...also could you sell a few animals when the test comes through?..even any few would surprise you how much theyd lighten the load...i know they mightn't be fit but sometimes you just have to cut your losses in order to lighten a bit....we have been very lucky that a neighbour had extra and he gave us some silage to tide us over..otherwise we'd have been badly off enough as alot of people are around here...

Try not to be too upset about an animal dying..it happens to the best of us and often there is nothing you can do about it...just try to remember that often on the darkest days when its nearly impossible to look on the bright side and the weather is horrific and ground is destroyed with no growth or fodder that summer will be here in the next couple of weeks and the sun will shine again...heard a nice story at a wedding recently where the priest said when he was young their house burned down and as himself and the family were standing there watching their home go up in flames and it seemed like the end of the world a work man told them 'there'll be great days yet'...and he always remembered it and they had great days after that...so even though it looks bleak tonight please remember youre not on your own, keep talking/asking for help and it will work out...

tom_k

Hi gr8 m8,

I remember you posting a long time ago, if I recall correctly you were saddled with debt and even sold timber out of the ditch to deal with it, I was impressed with that as some of your struggles at the time mirrored my own (then and now).

As the other good folk here have mentioned, please use any of the services available for your own well being whether it's Aware, your doctor/counsellor/therapist or just someone you can call into for a cuppa tay and unload on them.

In relation to your dealings with the department, there is a complaints procedure you can use, some say it's not worth it as they'll be on your back but it sounds like they may be there already. I believe that in the event of not being satisfied with this you can get the office of the Ombudsman to investigate. Leave this process to one side for now though and concentrate first on yourself and then your stock.

Keep a diary of all contacts with Dept officials/vets etc. get names and titles etc. This will stand to you in the future regardless. Even if you don't end up doing battle with them you can use it as a basis for your memoirs:D Consider having a friend present for future visits.

On the fodder, what little you have stretch it as long as possible, maximise concentrates usage and try to get a load of fodder stretcher mix or hulls or palm kernels or whatever your co-op or merchant can supply. Many are in this situation, not that knowing that helps much.

Minimise contact with negative people, there's a few everywhere.

Thanks for sharing here. I hope my words of dubious wisdom are of some use.

I wish you well.

bogman_bass

I think the first thing to know is that if you decide to go buying more fodder or sell some cattle to get past the hump that there is no wrong option as long as you do something.
Sometimes the fear of doing the wrong thing means you do nothing. Whichever of those two you go for is the right one. Always.

Do you need to talk to someone for yourself? If you do then do it be it Aware or Samaritans ([URL="tel:116123"]116 123)
or Pieta house [/URL][URL="tel:1800247247"](1800 247 247)[/URL]
If you think its more serious call an ambulance.

its been a tough winter and you have the finish line in sight there will be fine weather later this week and it's amazing what a bit of sun does to everybodies mood.

gr8 m8

Hello.

I'm contemplating applying for a job in the department of agriculture actually!

Never wrestle with pigs

Sell them ta feck before they put you in the grave. Buy a handful of runner heifers, make way more silage than you need and tipp along. Money isn't in it anymore and you Heath is your wealth.

whelan2

Are you full time on the farm? I found this last couple of months tough, I try and get away each day for an hour. Even to kids training to talk to other non farming people. Clear the head. I've lost two cows in the last week due to doing the splits, yes I'm annoyed over it, one of them was my best cow. If the weather was better they wouldn't have been housed and probably wouldn't be dead now. But when I'm off farm I leave the farm worries at home

_Brian

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

Jesus, the neighbor next door has 20 cattle and about 100 bales of hay and won't part with any! One of those men that follows me to the Mart to see what I make and comes into the yard to see what I am doing but he knows I'm against the wall so I haven't seen him in a while!

I rang the department 2 weeks ago to see if I could zero graze my glas land and I still got no reply! They don't even try to feign interest anymore when I ring them!

It’s easier to ask forgiveness than get permission.
If zero grazing gets you out of a hole then I wouldn’t hesitate to do just enough to get by.
Animal and indeed farmer welfare should always come in ahead of the bull**** paperwork farming being imposed.

I’d send them notification, no reply within 48 hours and your taking that as permission to work away on animal welfare grounds.

It sickens me to see the lads to the pin of their collar and the department blanking them. The reality is someone is afraid to make that decision and so is just sitting on it.

Was talking to a guy yesterday pleading to get his Genomics payment out but they’re stonewalling him, he’s borrowing in the CU to ride things over which is a disgrace.

Doctors room ghost

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Sell them ta feck before they put you in the grave. Buy a handful of runner heifers, make way more silage than you need and tipp along. Money isn't in it anymore and you Heath is your wealth.

Good idea and plenty of options available.you could sell out stock and lease it to a lad for rearing replacement dairy heifer if the ground suits and lads interested.you could also plant the lot of it and get a job off farm that might suit.you have options available if you want a change

Willfarman

I would be very reluctant to contact the department on anything. Keep your head firmly under their radar as best you can. Are you intending to graze all the cattle mike or are you holding some for sale when you pervieve the trade to be better.
Are you in test?
Despite the negativity you may be hearing from guys the trade is quite strong. Sell some if it’s at all practical.
Ring teagasc and ifa. They will source some kind of forage for you when you nothing.

Shower, shave, and change your clothes every morning no matter how bad you feel. Make your bed without fail. You’ll be surprised how these little things give you a micro lift. Stay clear of alcohol and try walk briskly every day for a half hour at least. Easier said than done.

Reggie.

Willfarman wrote: »

I would be very reluctant to contact the department on anything. Keep your head firmly under their radar as best you can. Are you intending to graze all the cattle mike or are you holding some for sale when you pervieve the trade to be better.
Are you in test?
Despite the negativity you may be hearing from guys the trade is quite strong. Sell some if it’s at all practical.
Ring teagasc and ifa. They will source some kind of forage for you when you nothing.

Shower, shave, and change your clothes every morning no matter how bad you feel. Make your bed without fail. You’ll be surprised how these little things give you a micro lift. Stay clear of alcohol and try walk briskly every day for a half hour at least. Easier said than done.

Something similiar to what you said Will but I love this speech from this admiral (commander of America's special operations group at the time)

https://youtu.be/3sK3wJAxGfs

Willfarman

Love it!!

Buford T. Justice XIX

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I'm contemplating applying for a job in the department of agriculture actually!

Jaysus, things are never THAT bad:D:D

Look, you have the back broken of your problem by talking about it. Help is out there. You'll look back in a few weeks time and wonder what you were worried about.

My advice would be to ring your county IFA office. They will put you in touch with lads who deal with problems like this every week. It doesn't matter if you are a member or not, have a chat with the person dealing with this and explain your issues.

Fair play for keeping the animals looked after, firstly, a lot of lads would let that slide so that is hugely in your favour in any dealings with the Dept. The IFA will also back you up in dealings with the Dept and discuss ways for you to get through this that would suit your situation more than the Dept soultions and they won't let you have to deal with them on your own.

You're not alone in this, every farmer round here is under pressure but we're getting through it with some help from outside. It's nothing to be ashamed of, this is pretty unprecedented weather for the last few months.

And we're always here as well even for just a rant so no need to feel you're alone in this. Feel free to PM me with a few fcuks if you feel like it, I'll take no notice:)

gr8 m8

Hello.

I'm just out of a meeting with the department vet and she explained everything to me. She told me that I am farming on the side of the road in view of the public and I don't have adequate housing or slurry storage, that they have gotten complaints about animals being out in all weather.

She explained that basically I'm only a cross compliance inspection away from being shut down!

I explained that if the weather had not been so terrible then it would all look different and she agreed but said that the weather is what it is! She thinks that if I just step back from it for a while and rest up and pull the place back together and work on the infrastructure then there will be no issue with me going back to farming in the future!

I can see where the department is coming from, I really can. I'm after calming down a good bit and want to tank you for all your advice and good wishes. But where I was angry, that hole seems to be filling up with guilt and shame over the state of the farm. I feel that because of my pig ignorance that it was the animals that suffered and have been paying the price!

I never saw myself as a cruel person but obviously my actions paint a different picture.if I could apologise to my animals I would! I would also apologise to agriculture as a hole for being such black spot against the proud community that stoke it's fires!

Reggie.

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I'm just out of a meeting with the department vet and she explained everything to me. She told me that I am farming on the side of the road in view of the public and I don't have adequate housing or slurry storage, that they have gotten complaints about animals being out in all weather.

She explained that basically I'm only a cross compliance inspection away from being shut down!

I explained that if the weather had not been so terrible then it would all look different and she agreed but said that the weather is what it is! She thinks that if I just step back from it for a while and rest up and pull the place back together and work on the infrastructure then there will be no issue with me going back to farming in the future!

I can see where the department is coming from, I really can. I'm after calming down a good bit and want to tank you for all your advice and good wishes. But where I was angry, that hole seems to be filling up with guilt and shame over the state of the farm. I feel that because of my pig ignorance that it was the animals that suffered and have been paying the price!

I never saw myself as a cruel person but obviously my actions paint a different picture.if I could apologise to my animals I would! I would also apologise to agriculture as a hole for being such black spot against the proud community that stoke it's fires!

I wouldn't be apologising to anybody but yourself. You said it yourself that you did nothing intentionally to your animals. You only did what you could when you could.

Very easy for people on the outside to point fingers and criticise others. How do you know they wouldn't have ended up the same way as yourself.

You never went out of your way to harm your animals or cause them suffering so hold your head up lad.

Water John

Things are rough on many farms. Don't believe you're in any way alone. Have you anyone you can ask for help. That may not be actual physical but someone to talk things over with.
A few chats. A bit of a plan.

HughCassidy

Take care mate have a chat with your local GP you are under stress since last August it has never stopped raining conditions farmers have been through have been shocking I have never seen the likes on a lovely evening like this it is onwards upwards. Don't mind your neighbor a balloon full of wind would have more in him I know his type take care of yourself .

whelan2

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I'm just out of a meeting with the department vet and she explained everything to me. She told me that I am farming on the side of the road in view of the public and I don't have adequate housing or slurry storage, that they have gotten complaints about animals being out in all weather.

She explained that basically I'm only a cross compliance inspection away from being shut down!

I explained that if the weather had not been so terrible then it would all look different and she agreed but said that the weather is what it is! She thinks that if I just step back from it for a while and rest up and pull the place back together and work on the infrastructure then there will be no issue with me going back to farming in the future!

I can see where the department is coming from, I really can. I'm after calming down a good bit and want to tank you for all your advice and good wishes. But where I was angry, that hole seems to be filling up with guilt and shame over the state of the farm. I feel that because of my pig ignorance that it was the animals that suffered and have been paying the price!

I never saw myself as a cruel person but obviously my actions paint a different picture.if I could apologise to my animals I would! I would also apologise to agriculture as a hole for being such black spot against the proud community that stoke it's fires!

How are you doing now?

gr8 m8

Hello.

Well the truth is that I am all over the place! I'm wrecked tired and seem to split my time between extreme anger and deep shame. I'm not sleeping or eating and I am living in constant fear of the phone ringing.

The department official that drew the short straw and has to deal with me rang me in work last Friday week and I was talking to him and trying to assure him that I was after moving cattle even though it didn't show up on the computer in his office. While talking to him I missed a call from the department vet and when I finally got off the phone to him, the vet had left a text message saying that she would be returning out to the farm the following Monday at midday with an even higher ranking department official! She signed off with "thanks" followed by her name. I rang her back straight away and explained how I was talking to the department when she called and then went through the same information as I told to the department man! When I enquired about the visit on Monday she told me that was basically a treat and wasn't going ahead because I was moving animals!

I have been very sick the last week with a head cold and hay fever that lead to a severe chest infection, this coupled with worry and torment and lack of sleep and loss of appetite and basically I'm in a bad way all around! But it all pales when I think of the phone call that I will get from the department on Tuesday probably!

When I first contacted them, they were all about helping me and said that maybe I should scale back to 10 or 20 animals but somewhere they decided that I had to go back to zero animals but let it slip that zero was the number they were working towards all along!

I'm terrified to ask questions or go up against them in case they decide to take the herd number off of me. If they came tomorrow and looked at all the cattle out on the grass and the calves running around then it is like a different place but I know that they can't unsee what they have already saw.

My heart is broken because I got through such a winter and when things are looking up again i have to turn my back on all the animals and won't even see the new born calves running through the fields for the summer!

All this has come to such an indelible climax without anyone ever intervening In the bad days and when I finally look for help then this is what happens. It has shown me that my failure and short comings are just that, they are mine and mine alone!

A morbid message I agree, but that is how I am doing now!
Mike.

greysides

Sounds to me like you should engage a solicitor so you're not dealing with the Dept on your own. I would imagine some form of compromise is possible.

Buford T. Justice XIX

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

Well the truth is that I am all over the place! I'm wrecked tired and seem to split my time between extreme anger and deep shame. I'm not sleeping or eating and I am living in constant fear of the phone ringing.

The department official that drew the short straw and has to deal with me rang me in work last Friday week and I was talking to him and trying to assure him that I was after moving cattle even though it didn't show up on the computer in his office. While talking to him I missed a call from the department vet and when I finally got off the phone to him, the vet had left a text message saying that she would be returning out to the farm the following Monday at midday with an even higher ranking department official! She signed off with "thanks" followed by her name. I rang her back straight away and explained how I was talking to the department when she called and then went through the same information as I told to the department man! When I enquired about the visit on Monday she told me that was basically a treat and wasn't going ahead because I was moving animals!

I have been very sick the last week with a head cold and hay fever that lead to a severe chest infection, this coupled with worry and torment and lack of sleep and loss of appetite and basically I'm in a bad way all around! But it all pales when I think of the phone call that I will get from the department on Tuesday probably!

When I first contacted them, they were all about helping me and said that maybe I should scale back to 10 or 20 animals but somewhere they decided that I had to go back to zero animals but let it slip that zero was the number they were working towards all along!

I'm terrified to ask questions or go up against them in case they decide to take the herd number off of me. If they came tomorrow and looked at all the cattle out on the grass and the calves running around then it is like a different place but I know that they can't unsee what they have already saw.

My heart is broken because I got through such a winter and when things are looking up again i have to turn my back on all the animals and won't even see the new born calves running through the fields for the summer!

All this has come to such an indelible climax without anyone ever intervening In the bad days and when I finally look for help then this is what happens. It has shown me that my failure and short comings are just that, they are mine and mine alone!

A morbid message I agree, but that is how I am doing now!
Mike.

Mike, I'd echo greysides here. You need someone in your corner to even up the numbers.

As far as I know, the Dept shouldn't have phoned twice in the one day. It looks to me like there are two officials dealing with this that aren't communicating or else they are trying to wear you down by sheer numbers.

Those two phone calls boiled my p!$$ when I read it! That's just intimidation, pure and simple

You too have rights here. You don't need to be dealing with this on your own and you have the right to have someone else there when the Dept officials call.

I don't know if you are a member of any farm organisation but they have representatives who deal with cases like this and many worse fairly often.

I highly, highly recommend that you contact one of them and ask for some help in dealing with this. It's not going to end as badly as you fear, there is always room for negotiation and the reps are very, very good at dealing with negotiations with the dept.

Water John

Certainly, if its Cork, you can contact me and I'll help as much as I can. I understand, animal welfare concerns but as Buford said, many places a lot worse.
You have rights too, they aren't, a law unto themselves.