Quinn: Schools spend too much time on religion and Irish

csallmighty

I agree with the religion part, that should be done at home or at a Sunday school or not at all even.

But stop teaching Irish? Why dont we as a nation walk backwards into British rule again if we're going to give up our native language.

I think that schools don't spend enough time teaching Irish. I cant even manage to string a sentence together as gaeilge anymore and its a shame.

Rodin

If someone has been 'learning' Irish for 12 years and can barely say their name, age, and where they come from only, then they must be simple.

ballsymchugh

csallmighty wrote: »

I agree with the religion part, that should be done at home or at a Sunday school or not at all even.

But stop teaching Irish? Why dont we as a nation walk backwards into British rule again if we're going to give up our native language.

I think that schools don't spend enough time teaching Irish. I cant even manage to string a sentence together as gaeilge anymore and its a shame.

former labour minister conor cruise o'brien would be proud of ruairi today!

MadsL

Rodin wrote: »

If someone has been 'learning' Irish for 12 years and can barely say their name, age, and where they come from only, then they must be simple.

Or the rest of the class is so disruptive learning is impossible.

MadsL

csallmighty wrote: »

I agree with the religion part, that should be done at home or at a Sunday school or not at all even.

No schoolchildren should have a basic understanding of what Islam is??

anirishlad

I'm in 5th year and we are not told to formulate our own sentences we just take down points and learn them retarded

Shryke

csallmighty wrote: »

I agree with the religion part, that should be done at home or at a Sunday school or not at all even.

But stop teaching Irish? Why dont we as a nation walk backwards into British rule again if we're going to give up our native language.

I think that schools don't spend enough time teaching Irish. I cant even manage to string a sentence together as gaeilge anymore and its a shame.

British rule has nothing to do with this so don't get hysterical. English is the spoken language in Ireland and that's not going to change. Luckily enough it's also spoken around the world, as are many other languages. None of them are Irish.
Bit of a nonsensical attitude to have when you can't speak the language, not that that would effect you adversely in any way whatsoever.

Rodin wrote: »

If someone has been 'learning' Irish for 12 years and can barely say their name, age, and where they come from only, then they must be simple.

You're insulting most of the country. The point you've missed and that others have made is that the language isn't really thought. You learn off a few bits and pieces throughout school without practicing the language itself. I hated the damn thing and so did everyone else with a few exceptions.
It was atrocious and the only focus in class was on learning off exactly what you might need for the leaving cert. And the wagon we had teaching us, Jesus. She was half a tonne and shaped like a round bale, and the violent mood swings...

MadsL

csallmighty wrote: »

I think that schools don't spend enough time teaching Irish. I cant even manage to string a sentence together as gaeilge anymore and its a shame.

Out of interest, what efforts since you left school have you made to learn Irish? If none, then it really isn't that important to you other than some ritualistic talisman to ward off the evil Brits. Could you not just get a "Celtic" tattoo?

GalwayGuy2

However, my real issue with Irish primary education comes with History. In History, I was taught about Cu Chulainn, Ferdia, Brown Bull of Cooley, all that useless fucking horseshit. I knew NOTHING of actual history, but my brain was and still is stuffed with these literal fairy tails, and they were taught in "history". It's fucking ludicrous. Get that shit out of the classroom, religion at least deserves acknowledgement, but mythology is a load of ****

My main beef with secondary school history is that it completly glides over the more, eh, questionable acts of the irish side during the war of independence, or the Easter rising.

lily09

The new report out today places ireland very strongly in literacy and has improving results in maths and science.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1211/fourth-class-pupils-strong-in-reading-assessment.html

On top as a fourth class teacher I teach religion for 30 mins a week max. Enough to appease the priest/ diosecan inspector but not enough to impinge to much on the children's ed. Of course I am lucky it is not a sacrament year and therefore can do this.
Irish on the other hand I am torn about. I would really love the people on tis thred who say it is taught poorly to tell me how to teach it well. I make iridh board games, we watch cartoons and make movies and still there is an underlying apathy.

Daith

PseudoFamous wrote: »

However, my real issue with Irish primary education comes with History. In History, I was taught about Cu Chulainn, Ferdia, Brown Bull of Cooley, all that useless fucking horseshit. I knew NOTHING of actual history, but my brain was and still is stuffed with these literal fairy tails, and they were taught in "history". It's fucking ludicrous. Get that shit out of the classroom, religion at least deserves acknowledgement, but mythology is a load of ****

What the hell is difference between religion and mythology?

books4sale

MadsL wrote: »

No schoolchildren should have a basic understanding of what Islam is??

They can learn from watching the News most nights of the week.

wp_rathead

PseudoFamous wrote: »

religion being taught in schools is fine so long as it's taught objectively and all religions are given proportional attention. Maybe a twice monthly lark if needs be, but frankly it could be done away with to little ill effect.

However, my real issue with Irish primary education comes with History. In History, I was taught about Cu Chulainn, Ferdia, Brown Bull of Cooley, all that useless fucking horseshit. I knew NOTHING of actual history, but my brain was and still is stuffed with these literal fairy tails, and they were taught in "history". It's fucking ludicrous. Get that shit out of the classroom, religion at least deserves acknowledgement, but mythology is a load of ****

Just don't have it thought as "History"- but I don't see anything wrong with old Irish tales about "The Salmon of Knowledge" etc. being thought, they are part of our culture.. Don't think there were included as part of "history"- if they were/are your right they shouldn't be thought as history. But these tales have way more justification to be included in curriculum than stories about a son of a Jewish carpenter in Palestine

Plus in my primary school we learnt about Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Viking Invasion, Norman Invasion in history

djPSB

Irish is our National language and would still be our spoken language only for the Brits invaded.

I think it would be sad to see it die out completely. Most young kids might not appreciate our roots.

On the other hand, learning Irish poems and pros is absolutely pointless. Kids need to be taught how to speak and understand languages so that they can be put to practical use. There should be more focus on the oral and aural examinations.

csallmighty

MadsL wrote: »

Out of interest, what efforts since you left school have you made to learn Irish? If none, then it really isn't that important to you other than some ritualistic talisman to ward off the evil Brits. Could you not just get a "Celtic" tattoo?

I have enrolled in classes but never have the time to attend because of work.

I can speak and understand spoken Irish a bit and regularly have conversations with my mother, but I cant grasp written Irish for some reason.

The whole British rule thing was just a badly conveyed joke. Some people didn't get it maybe because I didn't add a :P or "lol" at the end.

4zn76tysfajdxp

anncoates wrote: »

I don't think it's such a bad thing to make the national language compulsory. albeit taught in a context that might bring it to life a little.

Yes, I think this is a good idea. Maybe less of a focus on poems and stories and more so on conversational skills through Irish. It would be culturally beneficial, I reckon, though it may not please those who think education is only worthwhile if you're creating another drone for the multinationals.

books4sale

csallmighty wrote: »

But stop teaching Irish? Why dont we as a nation walk backwards into British rule again if we're going to give up our native language.
.

What the blue blazes are you blowing on about?

90% of the bloody population can't string two sentences of Irish together after 12 years of study so I don't see your point.

Judgement Day

I can't help but feel that the religion thing is a bit of a red herring or else there must be a vast difference between Catholic and Protestant schools. In both my primary and secondary schools we had one half hour scripture class a week - hardly onerous or time wasting. On the other hand my children attend a Church of Ireland primary school where they waste a enormous amount of time every day learning Irish, and things through Irish. For what it's worth, in my view, Irish is not the native language of most Protestants not to mention the diverse range of other nationalities which attend the school. Sectarianism at work, not very PC of me but there you have it.

chughes

djPSB wrote: »

Irish is our National language

What is a national language? Is it the language the majority of people speak on a daily basis?

Blaming the Brits is a bit pointless also. We have been independent for 90 years now. I think we can safely say that the mess is now of our own making.

Pottler

It's taught. Feckin thread about education and it's "they thought us this" and "they thought us that". They didn't feckin concentrate enough on the difference between thought and taught. Too busy teaching Irish and Religion..

Jimoslimos

Judgement Day wrote: »

For what it's worth, in my view, Irish is not the native language of most Protestants not to mention the diverse range of other nationalities which attend the school. Sectarianism at work, not very PC of me but there you have it.

Seriously? Very very wrong. Some of our most ardent advocates for the language have been Protestant, including our first President.

I see no point in the State continuing to forcibly teach the Irish language to successive generations of Irish children other than to keep the dwindling fires of a misplaced concept of nationalism burning. I would be quite happy if Irish became an optional subject taught in secondary school. If a dead language is going to be taught in primary school, then it should at least be a relatively useful dead language; teach Latin, perhaps, or maybe some variant of Ancient Greek. At least with Latin or Greek children would be learning something quite useful and not wasting countless hours over their twelve or so years of primary and secondary education being force-fed Irish, all with the end goal of barely being able to state their own name and age. And if you're going to teach a language, and that language preferably being a modern one, actually teach the language; don't require rote-learning of sentences, paragraphs and entire stories. That's not teaching; that's an exercise in memory retention and word-for-word regurgitation.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'd like Irish to be preserved but taught in a manner which will ensure fluency among students. How do the Germans and Dutch teach English so effectively? A decent percentage of their populations are either fluent or have a good command of the English language.

csallmighty

books4sale wrote: »

What the blue blazes are you blowing on about?

90% of the bloody population can't string two sentences of Irish together after 12 years of study so I don't see your point.

I explained it was meant as a joke. But if you look into it, without the our native language what makes us different from British? Nothing.

Where did you get 90% from?

Judgement Day

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Seriously? Very very wrong. Some of our most ardent advocates for the language have been Protestant, including our first President.

No, not very very wrong. Your point is like saying because Emmet, Tone etc. were Protestants that they represented the majority of the Protestant population - they didn't, they were regarded as renegades by most of their co-religionists.

My name is URL

Is it still the case that students can obtain higher points in their Leaving Cert if they take Irish exam papers? I never really understood that one. Why should anyone's education be worth more than others just because they completed a few exams in the native language? That's something that should be done away with right now if it hasn't been already.

MadsL

books4sale wrote: »

They can learn from watching the News most nights of the week.

How many teens do you know that watch the news or read a newspaper? If you are also implying that you can learn all you need to know about Islam from the six-one news, then I think you just proved my point.

djPSB wrote: »

Irish is our National language and would still be our spoken language only for the Brits invaded were invited over

FYP

lily09

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'd like Irish to be preserved but taught in a manner which will ensure fluency among students. How do the Germans and Dutch teach English so effectively? A decent percentage of their populations are either fluent or have a good command of the English language.

Because they listen to English pop songs, watch American TV shows and movies. They see English as a vibrant popular language whereas the only Irish cartoons available are spoken in dialects that children can understand even if they know the vocab.

csallmighty

gvn wrote: »

I see no point in the State continuing to forcibly teach the Irish language to successive generations of Irish children other than to keep the dwindling fires of a misplaced concept of nationalism burning. I would be quite happy if Irish became an optional subject taught in secondary school. If a dead language is going to be taught in primary school, then it should at least be a relatively useful dead language; teach Latin, perhaps, or maybe some variant of Ancient Greek. At least with Latin or Greek children would be learning something quite useful and not wasting countless hours over their twelve or so years of primary and secondary education being force-fed Irish, all with the end goal of barely being able to state their own name and age. And if you're going to teach a language, and that language preferably being a modern one, actually teach the language; don't require rote-learning of sentences, paragraphs and entire stories. That's not teaching; that's an exercise in memory retention and word-for-word regurgitation.

"A relatively useful dead language."

I talk nonsense most of the time, but that post was actually painful to read.

wp_rathead

My name is URL wrote: »

Is it still the case that students can obtain higher points in their Leaving Cert if they take Irish exam papers? I never really understood that one. Why should anyone's education be worth more than others just because they completed a few exams in the native language? That's something that should be done away with right now if it hasn't been already.

especially when they are given the English Exam paper aswell, they just have to answer in Irish