Unaccompanied learner drivers face penalty points

J_R

Hi,

OK, the cabinet approved the bill here :

Specific ban on texting, and new range of penalty points for mobile phone use, speeding, seatbelts and driving unaccompanied


New road safety measures are among a range of provisions in the Road Traffic Bill 2012 signed off by Cabinet today, including new and higher penalty points on key offences and a specific ban on text messages while driving, Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport Leo Varadkar has confirmed.

“Ireland has made huge strides in reducing road deaths, under successive governments. However, we can never become complacent about road safety. The Christmas safety campaign launched this week should remind people to be vigilant over the festive season. My Department is also bringing forward a range of other long-term measures in the Road Traffic Bill 2012. Ireland is currently ranked sixth in the EU for road safety. I want us to become the safest country in Europe,” Minister Varadkar said.

The new Bill will include a Graduated Driver Licensing system. The Graduated system will include a new category of Novice Driver, covering people in their first two years after qualification. This will be denoted by an ‘N’ plate on vehicles.

Novice and learner drivers will be subject to a new, lower threshold of six penalty points for automatic disqualification, rather than the normal 12. The lower alcohol limit of 20mg (‘virtual zero’) already applies to L and N plate drivers, as well as professional drivers.

The Penalty Points system is also being adjusted in light of a review conducted earlier this year. This review involved consultations with a range of groups, including the Oireachtas Transport Committee involving members of the Opposition.

The changes to the Penalty Points are as follows:

Learner drivers who are driving without a qualified driver will face penalty points for the first time with 2 penalty points applying (4 on conviction);
Not displaying L or N plates will face penalty points for the first time, with 2 penalty points applying (4 on conviction);
Penalty points for mobile phone use, including the new provision related to texting, will rise from 2 to 3 points (5 on conviction);
Penalty points for speeding will rise from 2 to 3 points (5 on conviction) –contingent on the conclusion of the current review of speed limits;
Penalty points for not wearing a seatbelt will rise from 2 to 3 points (5 on conviction).

The Bill will allow a blood sample to be taken from an unconscious driver following a serious road traffic collision, and tested when they give their consent.

Non-technological tests for impaired driving – such as walking a straight line, pupil dilation – will in future be usable as evidence in Court. This test can be used to detect drug driving.

The Bill will also strengthen the law in relation to texting while driving by making it an offence to use or handle the keypad of a mobile phone for the purpose of texting or receiving information. While the current legislation makes it an offence to hold a mobile phone while driving, the new Bill will clarify that this also relates to texting.



It will be possible for the first time to prohibit the driving of a vehicle which has been deemed unroadworthy by the NCT. There will also be enabling legislation to allow local authorities to provide parking and charging bays for electric vehicles and for car clubs. These and other measures provided for in the Bill will help to promote safer driving on our roads, as well as safer vehicles.

Following approval of the proposals by Government, legal drafting of the Bill will now take place in the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel. The Minister hopes to bring the Bill before the Oireachtas early in 2013.

The proposals are currently available on the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport website.

Ends

Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport: 01 6041090 / 01 6041087
http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=690

Bit disappointed they did not bring a new set:-

Aiding and abetting, for driving instructors who allow their pupils to commit driving offences/break the law whilst under their supervision.

Might do away with these idiotic "pretests"

deadman1972

areyawell wrote: »

(1) I am not saying I'm entitled to it whatsoever and stop misquoting me. Yes it is the law and I know I'm not exempt it and I know I am breaking the law. It is my choice and If I ever get done I will take my 2 penalty points and 100 quid fine and get on with it.



(2) The way you are talking is that all learner drivers or terrible drivers and or the cause of every accident on the road.

(3) I think the majority of learner drivers or safer than the ones with the full license drivers as you never see them speeding.

(4) How is me driving put peoples lives at danger when theres idiots on the road who are constantly speeding, overtaking in dangerous situations, unable to use roundabouts properly, refuse to indicate, tailgate, drink driving, dangerous cutting on motorways aloud on the road and these are the people at risk for causing accidents.

(5)I do not like getting taken over on a 80 km/h road by some lunatic with traffic oncoming and going 120 km/h. I witness this every day driving.

(6)They way you are telling it is, if a fully licensed driver is driving irresponsibily and knocks down someone its okay because they have there 20 min test past?

(1) Areyawell your actions say different. The fact that you are knowingly and fragrantly breaking such an obvious law and see nothing wrong with it says it all really. It is people like you that perpetuate the "sure i will take my medicine IF i get caught" attitude, no different to drunk drivers. The fact that you think what you are doing is ok because you HAVE to get to college and that allows you to break the law is mind boggling. And yes that is exactly your frame of mind IMHO because you continue to do it therefore by your actions there is nothing wrong with what you are doing. I am just curious but is there any other laws you think do not apply to you because of your circumstances?:rolleyes:

(2) I never said nor did i allude to anything that would suggest that i believe all learner drivers are the cause of all accidents and terrible drivers. If you actually read what i said and gave it some thought you would see that. I find it insulting that you are putting words in my mouth tbh. Show me where i said anything like that please

(3) I take it that you are privy to some facts that the rest of us are not so seeing that you could make this statement? Please quote your source for the education of us all.Oh btw how do you know who is a learner driver and who is not? Think about that now before you answer please;)

(4) You are in same category as those people that you mention here, if you have not passed the driving test then you are for whatever reason unable to demonstrate a BASIC level of skill and that is the reason that the law is there to protect other road users. Sorry but thats a fact even if whingers do not want to admit to it.Passing the test does not make you automatically a competent driver,no test will,that like everything else in life comes with experience.However the test is there to show a basic level of skill that once PASSED will allow you to start gaining that experience,the fact that you think its okm to bypass this stage is immature and shows an entitlement attitude imho.

(5) Curious to know how you are able to tell what exact speed other drivers are doing,have you some contraption in your car that allows you to make such a determination? You witness this every day driving eh? Geesus where do you drive,Afghanistan maybe? And do you drive so much that you can make such a statement and have you so much road experience that you are qualified to make that statement? I am not saying you don't witness this but my advice is if its that bad get off the road for your own safety;)

(6) As to your last point all i can say is WTF? Show me where i said anything like that and PROVE i said it. Otherwise thats a near liable statement tbh.Please read my point 4 above as to full licence drivers and levels of competency.I never said it was ok to kill another human being, how dare you suggest i did.:mad:

deadman1972

BTW areyawell i think the way this is going if we want to continue we should either start a seperate thread or pm instead,not fair to hijack this thread any further IMHO

areyawell

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

OK, the cabinet approved the bill here :


Bit disappointed they did not bring a new set:-

Aiding and abetting, for driving instructors who allow their pupils to commit driving offences/break the law whilst under their supervision.

Might do away with these idiotic "pretests"

N plates should apply to anyone with four penalty points or more in my opinion as well.

bookmad

Are these things going to be enforced straight away or not till the bill is passed . Also in relation to the 'N' plates if you pass your test before the bill is to do you still need to get these i.e. pass in December . With the new license coming out would it be alright if you have passed this month that you wait before getting the license by driving with the statement of pass until you can apply for the card. Other wise I would need to get another wallet. Writing on my own situation and also a friends in relation to the 'N' plates

Motor-Ed

The changes when activated will take effect from the given date and won't be retrospective. But if you hold back and don't apply for the FULL and the activation date passes then you will put yourself into new system.
Similar to those who passed Theory Test but didn't get their Learner Permit til after 4/4/11 put themselves into EDT.

bookmad wrote: »

Are these things going to be enforced straight away or not till the bill is passed . Also in relation to the 'N' plates if you pass your test before the bill is to do you still need to get these i.e. pass in December . With the new license coming out would it be alright if you have passed this month that you wait before getting the license by driving with the statement of pass until you can apply for the card. Other wise I would need to get another wallet. Writing on my own situation and also a friends in relation to the 'N' plates

oceanman

i always find it laughable that a learner is required to be accompanied at all times, if the learner is going to have a crash, whats the other driver supposed to do? jump over on the drivers lap and grab the wheel from their hand!!.....its a joke

deadman1972

oceanman you are missing the whole point, the licenced driver is there as a safety buffer,to calm less experienced drivers,to instruct and guide learners as to things they might be missing etc. not to grab the wheel as you suggested,i mean really come on:rolleyes:

areyawell

deadman1972 wrote: »

oceanman you are missing the whole point, the licenced driver is there as a safety buffer,to calm less experienced drivers,to instruct and guide learners as to things they might be missing etc. not to grab the wheel as you suggested,i mean really come on:rolleyes:

ah come on now its a cod especially if a learner fecks up and panics and the driver beside them is not even insured to drive the car, whats to stop a irresponsible driver giving lessons and encouraging the learner to speed and overtake? The whole system is a joke! only should be aloud 2 accompany with no more than 2 penalty points

deadman1972

areyawell i asked ya to pm me if ya wanted to discuss this further but you chose not to do that. First of all lack of insurance has nothing to do with competency or proficiency of driving skills so even if the passenger was not insured that has nothing to do with their purpose being there in first place:)

Second what has the fact that passenger might not be insured got to do with them being responsible or not? You are not making any sense in your statements tbh.

Third in answer to your question about irresponsible driver encouraging learner to speed and drive recklessly, there is nothing on earth to stop that and never will be as regards laws, however most people have a little thing called common sense and thankfully they choose to use it wisely otherwise nobody would be safe on the roads.

No driver with even two points should be driving at all and certainly should not be allowed to act as the responsible party to a learner, since by default if they have points chances are they are not responsible themselves.

You are correct though the whole system is a joke but a lot of the problems are easily fixed if the lawmakers and voters only had the balls to do whats needed IMHO and provided the resources to enforce the laws as well.:eek:

Lastly you really can't admit that what you are doing is wrong can you? You are not entitled to drive on your own so please stop,you are not qualified to do so solo and even after your test you may not be for a while as is the case with most people tbh. I am sorry but i feel you still have an entitled attitude and the fact that you are willing to unnecessarily risk other road users safety by driving solo while not qualified to do so i find very worrying. To my mind that puts you in the same category as someone that drives drunk or drugged when it comes to being irresponsible sorry.:(

Miike

Can someone please explain this to me? Does this new novice driving license apply to me, even though I have a current, in-date, provisional? o.O

allanb49

same here I've applied for my test in the new year will I have to wear these n plates? have had my lp for 16 months now only getting a car in the next week been doing lessons for a year and a half

Mariusz Pudgyanovski

this accompanied learner malarky might be feasible for a teenager living at home. i just did my theory test and about to get a learner permit. im 29 and live on my own 2 hours away from family.
what am i supposed to do?

apparently pass the test on CBT lessons alone..

areyawell

deadman1972 wrote: »

Lastly you really can't admit that what you are doing is wrong can you? You are not entitled to drive on your own so please stop,you are not qualified to do so solo and even after your test you may not be for a while as is the case with most people tbh. I am sorry but i feel you still have an entitled attitude and the fact that you are willing to unnecessarily risk other road users safety by driving solo while not qualified to do so i find very worrying. To my mind that puts you in the same category as someone that drives drunk or drugged when it comes to being irresponsible sorry.:(

Hmm I put peoples lives at risk? What about all the scumbags on the road who dangerously overtake and speed and the oul ones that couldn't work a microwave let a lone a car. Are they not worse than me driving safely on my provisional? So if a full license driver crashes its okay since they have a full license? Any Learner drivers i've seen on the road never speed or anything. I sometimes have a full license driver beside me when driving but never tell me I'm doing anything wrong, same as if there not there. Driving instructor told me I'm ready to take the test and passed a pre-test allready. Just waiting on the full test again now but unfortunatly nerves are getting the better of me and barely failed the last one a couple of months ago. Legs were shaking in the car

deadman1972

areyawell you still don't get it do you? Or is it that you choose to ignore the facts? Ok lets try this another way, i am not saying that passing your test automatically makes you a better or safer driver,i never said that. If you have done your lessons and for whatever reason did not pass your test then the simple truth is you were not good enough,thats it, no ands ifs or buts about it,its really that simple. This excuse i continuously hear of oh me nerves me nerves is goddam irritating tbh,fair enough you could get a dose of nerves on the day but that just means you are not ready and should not be driving on your own,full stop.

If you are the type of person that gets nervous behind the wheel a lot then you should not be driving at all imho,you are a danger to yourself and everybody else . This thing you say "what about the boy racers,what about the old people" stop it please,this conversation has piss all to do with them.Stop bringing up other situations to take away from the fact that you have not passed your test,you are driving illegally. Unless a childs life is in danger there is absolutely no excuse for what you are doing, but hey go ahead i guess the law does not apply to you.

Oh and btw if you do knock into some poor unfortunate good luck with insurance because you will not be covered on your own.So thats no liscence,no insurance, no consideration for other road users.

areyawell

deadman1972 wrote: »

areyawell you still don't get it do you? Or is it that you choose to ignore the facts? Ok lets try this another way, i am not saying that passing your test automatically makes you a better or safer driver,i never said that. If you have done your lessons and for whatever reason did not pass your test then the simple truth is you were not good enough,thats it, no ands ifs or buts about it,its really that simple. This excuse i continuously hear of oh me nerves me nerves is goddam irritating tbh,fair enough you could get a dose of nerves on the day but that just means you are not ready and should not be driving on your own,full stop.

If you are the type of person that gets nervous behind the wheel a lot then you should not be driving at all imho,you are a danger to yourself and everybody else . This thing you say "what about the boy racers,what about the old people" stop it please,this conversation has piss all to do with them.Stop bringing up other situations to take away from the fact that you have not passed your test,you are driving illegally. Unless a childs life is in danger there is absolutely no excuse for what you are doing, but hey go ahead i guess the law does not apply to you.

Oh and btw if you do knock into some poor unfortunate good luck with insurance because you will not be covered on your own.So thats no liscence,no insurance, no consideration for other road users.

Sure I'm hardy like, I don't care about the law! :rolleyes: Havn't been in any accident in a year driving roughly 550KM to 700KM a week so I think I'll be fine. If I get done, I get done. Why if only a childs life is in danger? Should I not drive if an adults life is in danger?

Sure If I'm driving illegally how come Gaurds don't do anything if they stop you? Surely if it was illegal they would summons you? No they don't they don't say a word to learner drivers unless you do something stupid then they might consider summonsing but generally no guard does summons any learner driver so how am I driving illegally? Went through checkpoints and they saw the L plates and just checked the tax, insurance and NCT and went on my way. How am I breaking the law so? Another one they checked my license and saw I'm on a provisional and said where are you going to? I replied to college. They said thats grand and left me on my way. So in my view its that illegal!

Miike

deadman1972 wrote: »

areyawell you still don't get it do you? Or is it that you choose to ignore the facts? Ok lets try this another way, i am not saying that passing your test automatically makes you a better or safer driver,i never said that. If you have done your lessons and for whatever reason did not pass your test then the simple truth is you were not good enough,thats it, no ands ifs or buts about it,its really that simple. This excuse i continuously hear of oh me nerves me nerves is goddam irritating tbh,fair enough you could get a dose of nerves on the day but that just means you are not ready and should not be driving on your own,full stop.

If you are the type of person that gets nervous behind the wheel a lot then you should not be driving at all imho,you are a danger to yourself and everybody else . This thing you say "what about the boy racers,what about the old people" stop it please,this conversation has piss all to do with them.Stop bringing up other situations to take away from the fact that you have not passed your test,you are driving illegally. Unless a childs life is in danger there is absolutely no excuse for what you are doing, but hey go ahead i guess the law does not apply to you.

Oh and btw if you do knock into some poor unfortunate good luck with insurance because you will not be covered on your own.So thats no liscence,no insurance, no consideration for other road users.

Suffering of situational anxiety suggests people should not be allowed to drive on their own?

People with the common cold should have their license suspended so, incase they sneeze while driving - IMAGINE THE HAZZARD.

Rational thinking... better tomorrow.

deadman1972

Hey Mike make a valid point would ya sp i can counter it?;)

areyawell as per usual you have missed the point completely. The Garda don't do you for it because there is so many L drivers doing it they do not have the resources to prosecute,its that simple. You ARE breaking the law, if you gave a crap about being a legit driver you would look that up and find out i am right,by default if an L driver is driving on their own their licence is invalid since they are ILLEGAL. Because their licence is invalid they therefore have no insurance cover in the event of an accident.

Please check the facts before ye reply to me if ye don't mind. Stop pissing and moaning without anything to back it up.

areyawell if your childs life is in danger then its simple there are no rules,you do what you must, IMHO thats the ONLY situation where breaking the law is acceptable. If an adults life is in danger then call an ambulance. The fact that you think its acceptable to joke about what you are doing by saying "sure i am hardy" says volumes about your character as a person and your attitude towards your fellow man.

areyawell all i have seen in your replies so far are excuses and more excuses,nothing substantive,makes me think you know you are wrong but persist in using the old excuse "but sure the Garda let me go so it must be ok".

areyawell

deadman1972 wrote: »

Hey Mike make a valid point would ya sp i can counter it?;)

areyawell as per usual you have missed the point completely. The Garda don't do you for it because there is so many L drivers doing it they do not have the resources to prosecute,its that simple. You ARE breaking the law, if you gave a crap about being a legit driver you would look that up and find out i am right,by default if an L driver is driving on their own their licence is invalid since they are ILLEGAL. Because their licence is invalid they therefore have no insurance cover in the event of an accident.

Please check the facts before ye reply to me if ye don't mind. Stop pissing and moaning without anything to back it up.

areyawell if your childs life is in danger then its simple there are no rules,you do what you must, IMHO thats the ONLY situation where breaking the law is acceptable. If an adults life is in danger then call an ambulance. The fact that you think its acceptable to joke about what you are doing by saying "sure i am hardy" says volumes about your character as a person and your attitude towards your fellow man.

areyawell all i have seen in your replies so far are excuses and more excuses,nothing substantive,makes me think you know you are wrong but persist in using the old excuse "but sure the Garda let me go so it must be ok".

Did the Hardy thing not sound a bit sarcastic with the rolleyes no? Sure if the guards don't prosecute why would I not drive by myself? If you don't get in trouble why would I stay off the road when its convenient for me to drive?

Its also illegal to speed on the roads don't you know? Drivers out there with 6 penalty points so If I get caught on my own like they get caught speeding I will get 2 penalty points. How can you not see this? If people could get away with constantly speeding obviously more people would speed? Please make a valid point about it instead of its the law blah blah blah. 2 penalty points and 70 quid fine is not a big deal!

People chance speeding all the time and driving while on the phone. I get the same punishment. In the new law in getting two penalty points its the same as either of them!!!!!!!! The country and guards knows that learner drivers need cars for work, college etc so will leave them off.

Last point I make cause you don't seem to be getting it at all.