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EUR100m a year government funding goes to Private schools

  • 11-12-2012 03:42PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    According to newstalk.

    :D

    You have to laugh.

    There has been numerous people texting in with the same schtick: my children deserve it. We saved up. We shouldn't be begrudged.

    begrudged government handouts... for FEE-paying schools :D:D


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Thought it'd be a lot more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Sounds like a bargain to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    This goes on the teacher's salaries though, right? The school still pays for everything else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    There was a thread about this a while back.

    It was determined that this is actually a bargain, saving the state a few hundred milion per year because it doesn't have to provide facilities for those students.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    TBH, I don't see why these schools are referred to as "private". If they receive public funding then they are not, imo, private. They are simply fee paying.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    Government pays for stuff shocker .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    How much is given to state funded 'public' catholic schools?

    As far as I am aware that figure includes the Gaelscoile out there and not just the Eton / Hogwarts type institutions that everyone envisions ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Meh. In other news, the government gives me a few mill a year, I'm not complaining about that!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    Leftist wrote: »
    the government is spending money on people other than me


    fyp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Complete no brainer this. Private schools save the government a fortune.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    wow....

    I imagine those championing public spending on a resourse for the wealthy, during a time of austerity, are the same people who think people from disadvantaged areas have no excuse and their self proclaimed 'entitlements' should be stripped.

    kinda sad. but shows why the country is in such a shocking state.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Nobody's championing anything. You've posted some rhetoric about wealthy versus disadvantaged and provided absolutely zero content.

    Why is this €100m poorly spent?

    As I say, this was discussed a few weeks back. If you removed the teacher funding from private schools, not only would you see an exodus of the best teachers out of the public system, but a huge glut of private kids would suddenly be foisted onto the public system as their parents became unable to afford soaring private fees.
    This would in the short to medium term increase the dept of education's expenditure by far more than €100m, resulting in a net cost to the state.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    ah, I follow now. kind of like if we expect proportional tax on corporations, they might leave?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Leftist wrote: »
    ah, I follow now. kind of like if we expect proportional tax on corporations, they might leave?
    No, nothing like that whatsoever.

    There's a common misconception that the parents who put their children in private schools are the top-tier salary earners like barristers, bankers, politicians, etc. This is true of handful of private schools, but in most cases the private schools are primarily catering to middle-class families who would be unable to afford a massive jump in these fees.

    There are about 30,000 students in private education each year, and the cost to the state of providing public education is about €8k per head per annum. It would cost the state nearly a quarter of a billion to educate these students, instead they're getting away with paying less than half of it.
    If the state was to pull this funding, private schools would have to raise fees by €3,500 per student to cover costs. In many private schools, this would represent an increase of more than 100% in their fees, which many parents could not afford. Which in turn would require the school to raise fees further to meet a shortfall until you reach an equilibrium where you have a small elite of parents who can afford to pay €8k+ per year to a private school, and the state is footing the bill for the majority of the other students who are now shoehorning themselves into the public schools.

    Have you done any research on this at all?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    seamus wrote: »
    No, nothing like that whatsoever.

    There's a common misconception that the parents who put their children in private schools are the top-tier salary earners like barristers, bankers, politicians, etc. This is true of handful of private schools, but in most cases the private schools are primarily catering to middle-class families who would be unable to afford a massive jump in these fees.

    There are about 30,000 students in private education each year, and the cost to the state of providing public education is about €8k per head per annum. It would cost the state nearly a quarter of a billion to educate these students, instead they're getting away with paying less than half of it.
    If the state was to pull this funding, private schools would have to raise fees by €3,500 per student to cover costs. In many private schools, this would represent an increase of more than 100% in their fees, which many parents could not afford. Which in turn would require the school to raise fees further to meet a shortfall until you reach an equilibrium where you have a small elite of parents who can afford to pay €8k+ per year to a private school, and the state is footing the bill for the majority of the other students who are now shoehorning themselves into the public schools.

    Have you done any research on this at all?


    The €3,500 per student is just for teachers wages there are additional costs to the state for fee paying schools

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Zab


    The €3,500 per student is just for teachers wages there are additional costs to the state for fee paying schools

    Nothing of note, no. There is a tiny amount of capital spending grants but no capitation grants.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Ah what the feck? Another private schools thread?? Everyone knows starting threads on that is my job :-P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Zab wrote: »
    Nothing of note, no. There is a tiny amount of capital spending grants but no capitation grants.

    How much is tiny, €10 million?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Zab


    How much is tiny, €10 million?

    €2.8 million last year, it's been steadily decreasing for the past few years. Obviously it's a reasonable sum of money but it isn't going to change an argument where we're already using rough figures like €3500 per head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,439 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    COYW wrote: »
    Complete no brainer this. Private schools save the government a fortune.

    I do love the fact the moderator of the Hockey forum posted this.

    :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    I for one am sick of my tax going towards rugby balls, blazers and elocution lessons.
    I got bet around with hurls and fondled by Christian Brothers and it done me no harm.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Bruce7


    Leftist wrote: »
    ah, I follow now. kind of like if we expect proportional tax on corporations, they might leave?

    Yes, kind of like that, well done. Sometimes if you try to grab too much, you end up with less than if you just left things alone.

    You'll find logic in a lot of different places. And poetry. And rhetoric.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    seamus wrote: »
    There's a common misconception that the parents who put their children in private schools are the top-tier salary earners like barristers, bankers, politicians, etc.

    Correct. One man I work with sends his two children to a private school. He decided to invest the money he would have spent on family holidays and such luxuries on education instead. The short term pain is worth the long term gain, in his eyes.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    seamus wrote: »
    No, nothing like that whatsoever.

    There's a common misconception that the parents who put their children in private schools are the top-tier salary earners like barristers,

    Have you done any research on this at all?


    Barristers, in practice, don't earn salaries.

    Have you done any research on this at all?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Gaelscoileanna are neither private or feepaying


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    I don't really see where this thread can go from here... fee paying schools are cheaper for the government, and they're not elite.... so there we have it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Well in fairness people are throwing around this "cheaper for the government thing" but I would rather focus on what is right. Are children being treated equally regarding education?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well in fairness people are throwing around this "cheaper for the government thing" but I would rather focus on what is right. Are children being treated equally regarding education?

    What about grinds? What about children who's parents bought them nice books, and educational toys? What about those damned children who had a teacher as a parent? How is that fair???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Not sure what the issue is, it's a well known fact that perpetuating inequality is worth every cent the govt spends on it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    What about grinds? What about children who's parents bought them nice books, and educational toys? What about those damned children who had a teacher as a parent? How is that fair???

    You dont see a difference between six years of schooling and the above?


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