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Dublin Bikes - expansion stalled?

  • 03-12-2012 11:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭ Dick Turnip


    Anyone know if the expansion of Dublin Bikes which was announced in the summer has been stalled/delayed/shelved?

    Have heard no mention of it since and I haven't seen any sign of new stations being installed on my travels. It was supposed to start by the end of the year (they have a few weeks to begin I suppose!) http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0730/1224321087209.html


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    Anyone know if the expansion of Dublin Bikes which was announced in the summer has been stalled/delayed/shelved?

    Have heard no mention of it since and I haven't seen any sign of new stations being installed on my travels. It was supposed to start by the end of the year (they have a few weeks to begin I suppose!) http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0730/1224321087209.html
    Yes indeed, I've seen no evidence whatsoever of the expansion taking place. Do they need to post planning permission notices at each location? Even some Part 8 work (i.e. done by DCC themselves) involves some sort of notification in the vicinity of works.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Deffo not stalled. I would take a guess that it is still in planning/discussion stage and will most likely appear in 2013.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    Agreement is/was due to be reached by the end of the year.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    monument wrote: »
    Agreement is/was due to be reached by the end of the year.

    Dont let that worry you ;)
    Still going ahead.

    Will be a great asset to the people of Dublin.
    As bad is the press that Dublin City Council and JC Decaux get, its a fantastic project for Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭ stocktrader


    no news is good news... or maybe not. any update?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    If I understand a recent Part 8 notice by DCC correctly, there will be an extra 10 spaces provided in the vicinity of the northeast corner of Stephen's green. And the existing stand will be moved to a nearby spot. Have heard nothing else though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭ Dick Turnip


    Sent an email to them through the contact us section of the site, asking when the next phase is due to kick off.

    Will keep ye posted if I get a response.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,374 ✭✭✭✭ foggy_lad


    If I understand a recent Part 8 notice by DCC correctly, there will be an extra 10 spaces provided in the vicinity of the northeast corner of Stephen's green. And the existing stand will be moved to a nearby spot. Have heard nothing else though.
    That has possibly more to do with the arrangements for the luas works for the extension to Broombridge?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    That has possibly more to do with the arrangements for the luas works for the extension to Broombridge?
    It is, but still relevant to this thread I believe? As an extra ten spaces are being provided, it is an "expansion" and the only one that has been specifically planned recently.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Heres the Part 8 Application - http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/MajorTransportProjects/Pages/ProposedTrafficManagementworksonStStephen%E2%80%99sGreenEastandStStephen%E2%80%99sGreenNorth,Dublin2tofacilitateLUASBroombridge.aspx

    I dont think the extra spaces are Dublinbikes, more so general public bike parking IIRC.

    Dublinbike expansion is still being sorted out contract wise i believe. I would expect an announcement on proposed locations in the next month or so. As soon as the councillors are happy with the figures then im sure the map, that some people have already seen :p will be made public.

    Dublin City Council, i would imagine are eager to get the expansion up and running ASAP.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    kceire wrote:
    Heres the Part 8 Application - http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTra...oombridge.aspx

    I dont think the extra spaces are Dublinbikes, more so general public bike parking IIRC.
    Surely this isn't hard to understand?

    Here's a section from the Part 8 notice: "Relocate the existing dublinbikes stand from the centre of St. Stephen’s Green East to the north of new signalised junction at Hume Street. The provision of 10 no. additional dublinbikes stands to the south of the signalised junction."

    I believe I'm right in saying the provision of 10 additional dublinbikes stands counts as an increase in capacity/an expansion to the service:rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Surely this isn't hard to understand?

    Here's a section from the Part 8 notice: "Relocate the existing dublinbikes stand from the centre of St. Stephen’s Green East to the north of new signalised junction at Hume Street. The provision of 10 no. additional dublinbikes stands to the south of the signalised junction."

    I believe I'm right in saying the provision of 10 additional dublinbikes stands counts as an increase in capacity/an expansion to the service:rolleyes:

    I was looking at the extra bike stand being placed at the junction of Hume street and SSG East, I wouldn't count 10 extra spaces on the existing DB stand there as part of the future expansion.

    The future expansion being discussed in this thread is in regards to the many many new stations being placed around the city. A few extra stands here and there, while great for the system, are not actually part of the future expansion that I am talking about in my posts.

    So you can take your smart arse comments and smart arsed rolleyes and put them on a DB and cycle home :rolleyes:

    As somebody that has already seen the future expansion maps I'll reserve judgement until they are made public. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    kceire wrote: »
    I was looking at the extra bike stand being placed at the junction of Hume street and SSG East, I wouldn't count 10 extra spaces on the existing DB stand there as part of the future expansion.

    The future expansion being discussed in this thread is in regards to the many many new stations being placed around the city. A few extra stands here and there, while great for the system, are not actually part of the future expansion that I am talking about in my posts.

    So you can take your smart arse comments and smart arsed rolleyes and put them on a DB and cycle home :rolleyes:

    As somebody that has already seen the future expansion maps I'll reserve judgement until they are made public. :rolleyes:
    There's nothing smart arsey in pointing out what's written down in a notice, as clear as day. You had claimed what I referred to was regular bike parking when a little reading of what you were commenting on would have told you otherwise.

    You mightn't be concerned about the extension of one db station in the city centre, but I am and it's possible that the future db expansion will need heavy coordination with Luas Broombridge works and the works above are probably part of this process. Goodness knows how we've waited so long for any kind of info on the specifics of any expansion anyway. Greater capacity in a central city db stand is still welcome news even if it only affects one station. An increase in the number of stands is an increase, even if it's not part of the greater set of plans which we (the unwashed masses who don't have access to the maps) are still waiting on... And instead of telling us that you've seen the final expansion plan maps, why not post some of the details and actually contribute some info on this??


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    There's nothing smart arsey in pointing out what's written down in a notice, as clear as day. You had claimed what I referred to was regular bike parking when a little reading of what you were commenting on would have told you otherwise.

    You mightn't be concerned about the extension of one db station in the city centre, but I am and it's possible that the future db expansion will need heavy coordination with Luas Broombridge works and the works above are probably part of this process. Goodness knows how we've waited so long for any kind of info on the specifics of any expansion anyway. Greater capacity in a central city db stand is still welcome news even if it only affects one station. An increase in the number of stands is an increase, even if it's not part of the greater set of plans which we (the unwashed masses who don't have access to the maps) are still waiting on... And instead of telling us that you've seen the final expansion plan maps, why not post some of the details and actually contribute some info on this??
    Surely this isn't hard to understand? = Smart Arsed
    ......... :rolleyes: = Smart Arsed




    On the plan you are referring to, its an extra few stands, not extra bikes.
    The part 8 is in reference to Luas BXD line, Nothing whatsoever to do with the DB expansion. Becasue the works involve moving the DB station, then they are facilitating the wider DB expansion in one move by adding the few extra stands there.

    While what you say is technically correct (DB station is getting extra stands, so technically it is an expansion), but in regards to the DB expansion scheme discussed in this thread it is not part of that as such.

    I will not post info on the expansion at this present time as it could result in me losing my job as they have not been made public yet, so the info i provide to this thread shall remain on par with yourself and evry other poster ;)

    I have provided enough info so far in telling people that the expansion has not stalled, it is being finalised and is 100% deffo going ahead in the near future.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    As the last poster said, delayed but not stalled:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0121/1224329103889.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭ [Jackass]


    All the universities should be high up the priorities list.

    UCD, Trinity, DCU, DIT....all would swarm all over this if they could use city bikes to get in and out of college.

    Also hope it's expanded to every village within the city suburbs...seems pointless at the moment that you can just get around town, but can't get to and from town to your home as there's very limited points outside of city centre...

    It's a superb project, just a shame like most things, it's been done completely half ass'd.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    All the universities should be high up the priorities list.

    UCD, Trinity, DCU, DIT....all would swarm all over this if they could use city bikes to get in and out of college.

    Also hope it's expanded to every village within the city suburbs...seems pointless at the moment that you can just get around town, but can't get to and from town to your home as there's very limited points outside of city centre...

    It's a superb project, just a shame like most things, it's been done completely half ass'd.

    I wouldn't exactly call it half assed. It's live about 2 years or so. The funding has to come from somewhere so that involves stages and stage by stage it will be advanced. Can't see it entering the suburbs anytime soon ie. Finglas, blanch etc etc as its just too far out IMHO.

    They are a city centre tool, not a commuting tool at present. City centre colleges are already readily supplied with stations and that will only get better with the expansion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    kceire wrote: »
    I wouldn't exactly call it half assed. It's live about 2 years or so. The funding has to come from somewhere so that involves stages and stage by stage it will be advanced. Can't see it entering the suburbs anytime soon ie. Finglas, blanch etc etc as its just too far out IMHO.

    They are a city centre tool, not a commuting tool at present. City centre colleges are already readily supplied with stations and that will only get better with the expansion.
    There's been no noises from Dublin City Council about increasing capacity in the existing central area already covered - the Part 8 application above notwithstanding :cool:

    Can we take it as a given that some kind of expansion within the core city centre is on the cards, on top of the expansion towards Heuston Stn. and docklands?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    Beefing up the current area is required given the extra demand expansion would place on the core area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    monument wrote: »
    Beefing up the current area is required given the extra demand expansion would place on the core area.
    100% agreed on that. I wonder if that will definitely happen though. Given how space is a premium in the city centre at the best of times. And the luas works may serve to remove even more space for a time also.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    Only some of the space in the city core is at a premium.

    There's loads of congested footpaths, but there's others with unused space.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭ markpb


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    It's a superb project, just a shame like most things, it's been done completely half ass'd.

    That's a bit insulting to the people involved. It takes 550 bikes and 44 stands to cover just the city centre. If they were to cover all the areas you mentioned and still have the stands close enough together, how many bikes would it need, how much would it cost to build and run, how many extra staff would be needed to shuffle bikes between stands? Who will pay for all that?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    There's been no noises from Dublin City Council about increasing capacity in the existing central area already covered - the Part 8 application above notwithstanding :cool:

    Can we take it as a given that some kind of expansion within the core city centre is on the cards, on top of the expansion towards Heuston Stn. and docklands?

    It is being expanded. The docklands and heuston is only phase one of the expansion. The full extent of the expansion extends further West, north and south.

    Rome wasn't built in a day, remember that ;)

    Don't mind the part 8 link posted here, that is simply a byproduct of the SSG works. The proper expansion is much larger in size and area covered.

    It was In the paper last week about the expansion so I don't understand the comment about the corpo not making any noise?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    kceire wrote: »
    It is being expanded. The docklands and heuston is only phase one of the expansion. The full extent of the expansion extends further West, north and south.

    Rome wasn't built in a day, remember that ;)

    Don't mind the part 8 link posted here, that is simply a byproduct of the SSG works. The proper expansion is much larger in size and area covered.

    It was In the paper last week about the expansion so I don't understand the comment about the corpo not making any noise?
    That's not what I'm referring to in my last post. I'm talking about the existing area that's served by dublinbikes right now and whether there will be increases in capacity or more city centre stations, which are very much needed also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    kceire wrote: »
    Rome wasn't built in a day, remember that ;)

    ...and that's an absolute disgrace too, typical of this country


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    AngryLips wrote: »
    ...and that's an absolute disgrace too, typical of this country

    You expect the analysis, design, construction and operation of a city wide, nearly free public transport model to be completed in one day :confused:

    That's not what I'm referring to in my last post. I'm talking about the existing area that's served by dublinbikes right now and whether there will be increases in capacity or more city centre stations, which are very much needed also.

    Yes, there will be new stations added and are mapped already. Will they happen in this phase or the next phase, i dont know at present.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭ markpb


    kceire wrote: »
    You expect the analysis, design, construction and operation of a city wide, nearly free public transport model to be completed in one day :confused:

    Unless I misread it, I think AngryLips was making a funny about us not building Rome faster :)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    markpb wrote: »
    Unless I misread it, I think AngryLips was making a funny about us not building Rome faster :)

    Maybe, the lack of smiley made me think he was serious :confused:

    Left my sarcasim hat at home today :(

    Anyway, Eoghan Murphy TD, seems to be on the ball with the information. He can certainly give out more info than what i am allowed to :)

    http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/2013/01/24/dublinbikes-expansion-update/

    http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/2012/08/10/dublinbikes-expansion/
    Today the National Transport Authority appeared before the Public Accounts Committee.

    We learned the following information regarding DublinBikes:

    · Roll out of the LeapCard to DublinBikes has hit a road block.

    · In the next 3 months negotiations with JC Decaux will conclude one way or the other.

    If they say yes, all systems are go for the expansion (see here for more). If they say no, we have to look at tendering for a parallel scheme to run alongside the existing one for the next twenty years or so. This would not be a good outcome but the ball is in their court.

    · The NTA has put aside €5 million euro for the expansion of the scheme in the next two years – 1000 extra bikes and 40 extra stations once they get the green light. Follow on funding for further expansion and the running of the scheme will depend on who the city partners with and what deal can be done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭ [Jackass]


    markpb wrote: »
    That's a bit insulting to the people involved. It takes 550 bikes and 44 stands to cover just the city centre. If they were to cover all the areas you mentioned and still have the stands close enough together, how many bikes would it need, how much would it cost to build and run, how many extra staff would be needed to shuffle bikes between stands? Who will pay for all that?

    How much did the project cost? 500k or so? Department of transport has a budget of something like 2 billion (2,000,000,000), as well as Dublin city council budget of 300 million or so?

    Considering the cost of Dublin bikes being virtually negligible in terms of budgeting and grants, and considering how they completely fluffed getting private funding for it (getting it for free essentially) by first negotiating a crap deal, and then abandoning the crap deal and just getting the tax payer to pay for it, and considering the take up has been so immense (reflecting the appalling standard of Dublin public transport, everything, such as LUAS as well, has massive take up as the city is begging for any decent facilities) and the lack or foresight to make it such a small located project....it is half ass'd imo.

    Even if the tax payer has to pay for it (the failure to get it privately funded is a joke none the less - every other city managed to do this), you would think the staggering take up would ring a few bells in the heads of civil servants that perhaps this is desperately needed, and prioritise it to allocate additional funding, even say 2 or 3 million, it could be massively expanded, doubling its city centre capacity and moving it to a 5km radius around the city centre. If people commute in and out of town on it, it might even make a bit of money towards offsetting the cost, as more journeys may be over 30 minutes. (although I know it's not the point to make money, but at least 1 transport system in Ireland without private sector management should try to at least break even).

    It's like people are surprised when uptake is big on any form of transport in the city - hands down Dublin has the worst public transport of any major city I've ever seen and one of the worst traffic management and congestion cities I've ever seen also.

    Regarding maintenance, there is massive inefficiency in allocation of human resources in public sector, a private management company, offset by a half decent private sector deal on funding / advertising would easily cover the cost.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    How much did the project cost? 500k or so? Department of transport has a budget of something like 2 billion (2,000,000,000), as well as Dublin city council budget of 300 million or so?

    Considering the cost of Dublin bikes being virtually negligible in terms of budgeting and grants, and considering how they completely fluffed getting private funding for it (getting it for free essentially) by first negotiating a crap deal, and then abandoning the crap deal and just getting the tax payer to pay for it, and considering the take up has been so immense (reflecting the appalling standard of Dublin public transport, everything, such as LUAS as well, has massive take up as the city is begging for any decent facilities) and the lack or foresight to make it such a small located project....it is half ass'd imo.

    Even if the tax payer has to pay for it (the failure to get it privately funded is a joke none the less - every other city managed to do this), you would think the staggering take up would ring a few bells in the heads of civil servants that perhaps this is desperately needed, and prioritise it to allocate additional funding, even say 2 or 3 million, it could be massively expanded, doubling its city centre capacity and moving it to a 5km radius around the city centre. If people commute in and out of town on it, it might even make a bit of money towards offsetting the cost, as more journeys may be over 30 minutes. (although I know it's not the point to make money, but at least 1 transport system in Ireland without private sector management should try to at least break even).

    It's like people are surprised when uptake is big on any form of transport in the city - hands down Dublin has the worst public transport of any major city I've ever seen and one of the worst traffic management and congestion cities I've ever seen also.

    Regarding maintenance, there is massive inefficiency in allocation of human resources in public sector, a private management company, offset by a half decent private sector deal on funding / advertising would easily cover the cost.

    If the private sector get their hands on it, it will become a profit making journey with the cost increasing for the end user, and that shouldn't happen.

    If the 5 year plan goes ahead as scheduled, it will be rolled out to Finglas, ballymun, ballyfermot etc

    Each expansion has to connect to another, so you can’t start in the city centre and then put a station in DCU, you have to work from the city centre out.

    Maintenance is already done by the private sector in jc decaux so your ill advised comments there are unfounded.

    The expansion is being funded by a 500k grant from the NTA and DCC are looking into private funding for future expansion.


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