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Garda wiped driving slate for two judges and RTE presenter

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    #32
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Why does a Garda even have this ability?

    Garda Superintendents have the power, not rank and file Gardai I would think.


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    #33
    Porkchop McGee
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Porkchop McGee


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    How wrong can one post be?
    Three directors of Anglo alone are on bail awaiting trial, and we have lost count of the number of priests, brothers, lay teachers etc who have been convicted for abuse.
    A corrupt police force should worry the citizens of any state.
    We have lost count? Don't talk garbage. The point being this is minor corruption on the grand scheme of things as clear and obvious wide scale corruption is right before your eyes every day and, as a society, we let it slide. Sure go on, get up in arms over a garda making points disappear if it eases your conscience.


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    #34
    pitythefool
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭pitythefool


    anncoates wrote: »
    People don't realize the irony of defending a bit of 'rule breaking' and nepotism by local Gardai and politicians while losing the plot over bankers and regulators.

    Fair enough the scale of financial impact re: the latter is much bigger, but it's the same base culture - and the passive acceptance of same from the public - that informs both.

    Career suicide but fair play anyway


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    #35
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    pickarooney wrote: »
    It doesn't specify that they caused them, mind.


    True. It also doesnt state if the drivers would have received bans


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    #36
    Gee_G
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Gee_G


    I think this is a disgrace, once penalty points are logged,they should not be able to be removed! Between these sort of cases and the cases a while back on some sexual abuse involving Garda's(I don't remember the details I just remember hearing it), people are going to lose all respect for the authorities the same way they have for priests/religion and I think it's going to become a very sad state of affairs. They're no secret service but they are all we got :):)
    Ps- this is coming from a person with quite a few Gardai in it and have nothing against them :)


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    #37
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    For those of you interested, gardai cannot wipe penalty points. Penalty points actually have nothing to do with the gardai. They are dealt with by the department of transport. In fact, the Garda system doesn't even allow a Garda to see how many points a person has.

    What I suspect the Independent and the op are confusing the issue with are traffic fines that have been issued and subsequently cancelled before being paid. Again this is not possible for a Garda to do. It must be requested by a Superintendent or higher and it can only be done by an Inspector or higher.

    Hope this was helpful to the op as I'm sure he'd like all the facts. *looks at ops sig* Never mind.


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    #38
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Gee_G wrote: »
    I think this is a disgrace, once penalty points are logged,they should not be able to be removed! Between these sort of cases and the cases a while back on some sexual abuse involving Garda's(I don't remember the details I just remember hearing it), people are going to lose all respect for the authorities the same way they have for priests/religion and I think it's going to become a very sad state of affairs. They're no secret service but they are all we got :):)
    Ps- this is coming from a person with quite a few Gardai in it and have nothing against them :)


    checks username


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    #39
    pitythefool
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭pitythefool


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Wrong of course, but things like this are going to happen, its not the end of the world. Things liuke this happen always did and will continue; we will never be able to wipe it out totally.

    Former Munster and Ireland rugby player Eddie Halvey was drunk and caused a crash where someone died, so it was the end of the world for that person plus years of suffering for their family

    If he is the international involved then what would you say


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    #40
    Gee_G
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Gee_G


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »


    checks username
    Quite a few in the family, not one myself :D


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    #41
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Gee_G wrote: »
    I think this is a disgrace, once penalty points are logged,they should not be able to be removed!

    Yes, they should if there is a valid reason. As in someone caught speeding by a Gatso because they were actually on the way to the Hospital with a kid who was in an emergency situation.

    What they shouldn't be removed for is because "Ah, sure, he's a judge, gotta stay on his good side"


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    #42
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Garda Superintendents have the power, not rank and file Gardai I would think.


    On this basis, is it reasonable to assume that either a) It's the rank of superintendent and above that are\were quashing the points and\or b) lower ranking gardai were moving it upstairs so to speak.


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    #43
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Porkchop McGee wrote: »
    We have lost count? Don't talk garbage. The point being this is minor corruption on the grand scheme of things as clear and obvious wide scale corruption is right before your eyes every day and, as a society, we let it slide. Sure go on, get up in arms over a garda making points disappear if it eases your conscience.

    I dont need my conscience eased.
    This kind of wide scale institutional corruption was a precurser to the disaster that has beset this country of late.
    50,000 cases of corruption in penalty points alone, who knows what even more serious cases were taken care of by the Gardai for their political ad influential friends!


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    #44
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    sparksfly wrote: »
    True, but a tolerence of corruption on any level by us in our lawmakers and lawkeepers eventually drags us down.
    We allowed it to fester in our regulation and planning sectors with disasterous results.
    Cianos wrote: »
    Maybe correct in comparison to some other countries, but I don't see the value in being contrary in light of any type of corruption. Who's to say that this is the worst form of corruption within the Gardai in any case?
    Not being contrary or dismissive of it. Simply making the observation that a story about relatively low-level corruption being national news is actually a good thing on two points:

    1. It means that the population are less accepting of these small corruptions. In times gone by, it was taken for granted that if you knew a garda then you could have speeding fines and drink driving charges quietly dropped. If you put that in the paper, people would say, "Well, no **** sherlock". Now it's considered abhorrent enough to be worth printing. That's a good thing.

    2. At least one Garda has no problem breaking ranks in order to try and do the right thing. This kind of behaviour has been on the increase in recent years with young Gardai arresting senior Gardai for minor things like speeding and drink-driving, and this report is just another welcome example that things are constantly getting better in the force.

    No, we can't ignore low-level corruption, but at the same time where there is power, you will get corruption. It's a fact of humanity and no police force is immune to it.
    The seriousness of the problem should be measured by the seriousness of the corruption, which in this case isn't exceptionally serious, so should be taken as an indicator that things are getting better.
    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Nine of those who had their penalty points quashed were later involved in fatal crashes!
    As said above, you have no idea if penalty points would have made difference or if these people were even at fault in these incidents.
    Dicky Pride wrote: »
    The naivety and stupidity of this post really irks me. The fact of the matter is if they can do this then they're more than likely up to a hell of a lot more. Guards in this country, for the most part, do not do a good job and most of them are arrogant, ignorant and on a 40 year long power trip.
    Do you want some salt and vinegar for that chip? Yeah, most Gardai do nothing more than push people around for their own gain for 40 years. Typical ignorance, I'm not surprised.

    "If they can do this, they can do more". Slippery slope fallacy. I break the speed limit from time to time, like everyone does. That doesn't mean that I habitually drink-drive.


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    #45
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Garda Superintendents have the power, not rank and file Gardai I would think.
    Why would Superintendents have this power?


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    #46
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    The article says a superintendent has the discretion to cancel a ticket. Ordinary guards can't quash tickets once they're on the system. I don't really see quashing speeding tickets as corruption. If they were taking payment for doing so then yes but other wise it's just a managerial decision.


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    #47
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Wheres Jimmy McNulty from the wire when you need him?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_53g9m0hVQ


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    #48
    Gee_G
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Gee_G


    minidazzler wrote: »

    Yes, they should if there is a valid reason. As in someone caught speeding by a Gatso because they were actually on the way to the Hospital with a kid who was in an emergency situation.

    What they shouldn't be removed for is because "Ah, sure, he's a judge, gotta stay on his good side"
    Right ok, I agree with you there. That's one of a few situations that they should be. But not 50,000 different incidents!


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    #49
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    humanji wrote: »
    How would penalty points have stopped those fatal crashes?


    While not on a Serpico level, it's still good to know there's some honest Gardaí trying to force a change in their ethics. Just wondering if anything will actually come of it, though. Or is it just a slow news day and will be forgotten in tomorrow.

    The points might have resulted in a disqualification. Maybe that's why they were removed.


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    #50
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    seamus wrote: »
    I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

    If they go on to kill somebody, when they should not have been on the road then it's pretty serious.


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    #51
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    CJC999 wrote: »
    If they were taking payment for doing so then yes but other wise it's just a managerial decision.

    Must add that one to the cute hoor lexicon although it's bulging already.


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    #52
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    seamus wrote: »
    I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

    Fair point, plenty of cases of Guards prosecuted for much worse. Still nobody should be treated favourably because of status in society.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #53
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dvpower wrote: »
    Why would Superintendents have this power?
    There needs to be, at some point, the ability to cancel a fine - clerical errors, garda errors, etc.

    Auditing this is quite difficult unless there's a pattern in terms of who is doing the quashing.

    Certainly the Garda ombudsman should be auditing these databases and looking for patterns of Gardai continually quashing fines, or fines being quashed for dubious reasons, etc. If they thought that someone was looking over their shoulder, they'd be far less likely to take the risk of being caught.


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    #54
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,938 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Porkchop McGee wrote: »
    So what? No one has been arrested for the banks going broke. The perpetrators of religious rape and their protectors continue to go unpunished. This society has bigger problems to get its knickers twisted over.
    well if bankers and priests/bishops are getting their points quashed??


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    #55
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    I'm more concerned with the fact that two judges had points removed. Would these judges have known about it? Or even asked for it? If they asked for it does that mean we have two judges willing to ask for special favours? How can they be impartial then?


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    #56
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Grayson wrote: »
    The points might have resulted in a disqualification. Maybe that's why they were removed.
    There's a hell of a lot of presumptions to be made without knowing the facts. We don't know how many points these drivers had. We don't know why they received those points. We don't know the circumstances of the fatal crashes and who was to blame. So as it stands, it's little more than coincidence.


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    #57
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    kincsem wrote: »
    50,000 cases quashed. One case would be a scandal.

    And if you get onto your TD enough he/she'll will help squash that disqualification on the license.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #58
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    dvpower wrote: »
    Why would Superintendents have this power?

    It's in the article

    "Garda superintendents have the power to adjudicate on and cancel penalty points if it is shown they were issued in error, or if there are extenuating circumstances involved, such as a medical emergency. They can intervene if written to by a motorist who wishes to appeal the points levied against them. "


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    #59
    pitythefool
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭pitythefool


    MagicSean wrote: »
    It's in the article

    "Garda superintendents have the power to adjudicate on and cancel penalty points if it is shown they were issued in error, or if there are extenuating circumstances involved, such as a medical emergency. They can intervene if written to by a motorist who wishes to appeal the points levied against them. "

    I suppose we will have to see, why the were written off before we can comment then


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    #60
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    MagicSean wrote: »
    It's in the article

    "Garda superintendents have the power to adjudicate on and cancel penalty points if it is shown they were issued in error, or if there are extenuating circumstances involved, such as a medical emergency. They can intervene if written to by a motorist who wishes to appeal the points levied against them. "
    Seems strange to me that we would be giving gardai quasi judicial powers in cases that they themselves detect and investigate.


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    #61
    pitythefool
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭pitythefool


    dvpower wrote: »
    Seems strange to me that we would be giving gardai quasi judicial powers in cases that they themselves detect and investigate.

    For back scratching purposes i would presume


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