Garda wiped driving slate for two judges and RTE presenter

Death and Taxes

TWO judges, a leading rugby player and a television presenter were among those who had penalty points illegally written off, a garda whistleblower has alleged.
In at least nine cases highlighted in the dossier, a motorist who had their points quashed went on to be involved in a fatal road-traffic accident.

A source told the Irish Independent: "What the material suggests is that this is a cultural issue within the force – something that has become custom and practice over the years, but is only now coming to light."



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-wiped-driving-slate-for-two-judges-and-rte-presenter-3309822.html

If this is true, and I for one suspect that it is, it just shows that culture of endemic corruption in the Gardai remains unabated!

Red Crow

Corruption just like in any other job.

seamus

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

MagicMarker

Why does a Garda even have this ability?

Pottler

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why does a Garda even have this ability?

What's that, the ability to use a computer? Bit hard to neuter it out of them in Templemore probably.

kneemos

Never heard of much or any corruption in the Gardi.

sparksfly

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

True, but a tolerence of corruption on any level by us in our lawmakers and lawkeepers eventually drags us down.
We allowed it to fester in our regulation and planning sectors with disasterous results.

Cianos

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

Maybe correct in comparison to some other countries, but I don't see the value in being contrary in light of any type of corruption. Who's to say that this is the worst form of corruption within the Gardai in any case?

Odysseus

Wrong of course, but things like this are going to happen, its not the end of the world. Things liuke this happen always did and will continue; we will never be able to wipe it out totally.

homewardbound11

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why does a Garda even have this ability?

Most gards I have encountered are a cross between hank on the movie " ME MYSELF AND IRENE" And a lot of those november tashes that are out there this month let them have their power trip. They deserve it after all.
sorry, a little touchy here after getting my last round of penalty points.

Pps.no disrespect to the movember efforts and cause. Just some of the mustaches are visuals to aid the above descriptive.

Cianos

Pottler wrote: »

What's that, the ability to use a computer? Bit hard to neuter it out of them in Templemore probably.

Surely the database infrastructure should not allow anyone to go in and edit fields. Probably assuming a lot here, but if penalty points are issued they should expire according to the date issued, and any other method of their removal should require some sort of process that is beyond the access of regular Gardai.

Abi

There used to be a time when the police of this country were friends of the church rich and powerful! Drink driving charges quashed, parking tickets ripped up, even the blind eye turned to the odd murder!

Ghandee

It starts with penalty points,

Next thing they're hiding guns and flushing a kilo of coke down the jacks for a drug dealer:pac::pac:

anncoates

Even at this nascent stage of the thread, the whataboutery about these deeds is already showing.

It's wrong whatever way you look at it. And it's not necessarily the case that a guard willing to do this couldn't be leaned on for other things.

Death and Taxes

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

Nine of those who had their penalty points quashed were later involved in fatal crashes!

Death and Taxes

kneemos wrote: »

Never heard of much or any corruption in the Gardi.

Try googling Mc Brearty case!

pickarooney

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Nine of those who had their penalty points quashed were later involved in fatal crashes!

It doesn't specify that they caused them, mind.

Porkchop McGee

So what? No one has been arrested for the banks going broke. The perpetrators of religious rape and their protectors continue to go unpunished. This society has bigger problems to get its knickers twisted over.

JazzyJ

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

Granted its more than 20 years ago, but the far reaching allegations of corruption continue to this day:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/detective-hits-out-at-denial-of-fr-niall-molloy-coverup-3297163.html

Dicky Pride

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

The naivety and stupidity of this post really irks me. The fact of the matter is if they can do this then they're more than likely up to a hell of a lot more. Guards in this country, for the most part, do not do a good job and most of them are arrogant, ignorant and on a 40 year long power trip.

How many times have you heard the words "Where are the guards when you really need them"?

Dicky Pride

Porkchop McGee wrote: »

So what? No one has been arrested for the banks going broke. The perpetrators of religious rape and their protectors continue to go unpunished. This society has bigger problems to get its knickers twisted over.

Dear Lord.

There's a woman living in my town who was punched in the face during a night out. But so what. There was a woman raped elsewhere. A man was beaten to within an inch of his life. But so what, another man was killed. You wouldn't be the sharpest tool in the shed, would ya Porkchop?

anncoates

Porkchop McGee wrote: »

This society has bigger problems to get its knickers twisted over.

I give up.

The person is correct that made the point that trivial matters like this just add to an overall festering of a corruption culture.

Plus no member of AGS should ever be in the postilion where they are compromised and potentially open to blackmail for a matter like this.

Porkchop McGee

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Dear Lord.

There's a woman living in my town who was punched in the face during a night out. But so what. There was a woman raped elsewhere. A man was beaten to within an inch of his life. But so what, another man was killed. You wouldn't be the sharpest tool in the shed, would ya Porkchop?

Clearly sharper than you, boss, but thanks for your effort anyway.

humanji

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Nine of those who had their penalty points quashed were later involved in fatal crashes!

How would penalty points have stopped those fatal crashes?


While not on a Serpico level, it's still good to know there's some honest Gardaí trying to force a change in their ethics. Just wondering if anything will actually come of it, though. Or is it just a slow news day and will be forgotten in tomorrow.

Wacker The Attacker

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why does a Garda even have this ability?

What they give in one hand they take away something else in another according to this thread.

Death and Taxes

Porkchop McGee wrote: »

So what? No one has been arrested for the banks going broke. The perpetrators of religious rape and their protectors continue to go unpunished. This society has bigger problems to get its knickers twisted over.

How wrong can one post be?
Three directors of Anglo alone are on bail awaiting trial, and we have lost count of the number of priests, brothers, lay teachers etc who have been convicted for abuse.
A corrupt police force should worry the citizens of any state.

Wacker The Attacker

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

The problem is though, that several of these drivers went on to become involved in fatal road traffic accidents.


Immediately raising the seriousness of the situation from one of simply quashing penalty points

I know its 9 from 50,000 but no matter how you look at it thats 9 lives lost

Death and Taxes

humanji wrote: »

How would penalty points have stopped those fatal crashes?


While not on a Serpico level, it's still good to know there's some honest Gardaí trying to force a change in their ethics. Just wondering if anything will actually come of it, though. Or is it just a slow news day and will be forgotten in tomorrow.

Potentially, knowing that they were not above the law and could not act with impunity might have affected how they drive.

Itsdacraic

Ah here, almost everyone I know has gotten off with various minor traffic incidents over the years by ringing various cops they know and asking if he could have a word with the Garda that issued the fine/points etc

anncoates

People don't realize the irony of defending a bit of 'rule breaking' and nepotism by local Gardai and politicians while losing the plot over bankers and regulators.

Fair enough the scale of financial impact re: the latter is much bigger, but it's the same base culture - and the passive acceptance of same from the public - that informs both.

kincsem

50,000 cases quashed. One case would be a scandal.

minidazzler

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why does a Garda even have this ability?

Garda Superintendents have the power, not rank and file Gardai I would think.

Porkchop McGee

WileyCoyote wrote: »

How wrong can one post be?
Three directors of Anglo alone are on bail awaiting trial, and we have lost count of the number of priests, brothers, lay teachers etc who have been convicted for abuse.
A corrupt police force should worry the citizens of any state.

We have lost count? Don't talk garbage. The point being this is minor corruption on the grand scheme of things as clear and obvious wide scale corruption is right before your eyes every day and, as a society, we let it slide. Sure go on, get up in arms over a garda making points disappear if it eases your conscience.

pitythefool

anncoates wrote: »

People don't realize the irony of defending a bit of 'rule breaking' and nepotism by local Gardai and politicians while losing the plot over bankers and regulators.

Fair enough the scale of financial impact re: the latter is much bigger, but it's the same base culture - and the passive acceptance of same from the public - that informs both.

Career suicide but fair play anyway

Wacker The Attacker

pickarooney wrote: »

It doesn't specify that they caused them, mind.

True. It also doesnt state if the drivers would have received bans

Gee_G

I think this is a disgrace, once penalty points are logged,they should not be able to be removed! Between these sort of cases and the cases a while back on some sexual abuse involving Garda's(I don't remember the details I just remember hearing it), people are going to lose all respect for the authorities the same way they have for priests/religion and I think it's going to become a very sad state of affairs. They're no secret service but they are all we got :)
Ps- this is coming from a person with quite a few Gardai in it and have nothing against them

MagicSean

For those of you interested, gardai cannot wipe penalty points. Penalty points actually have nothing to do with the gardai. They are dealt with by the department of transport. In fact, the Garda system doesn't even allow a Garda to see how many points a person has.

What I suspect the Independent and the op are confusing the issue with are traffic fines that have been issued and subsequently cancelled before being paid. Again this is not possible for a Garda to do. It must be requested by a Superintendent or higher and it can only be done by an Inspector or higher.

Hope this was helpful to the op as I'm sure he'd like all the facts. *looks at ops sig* Never mind.

Wacker The Attacker

Gee_G wrote: »

I think this is a disgrace, once penalty points are logged,they should not be able to be removed! Between these sort of cases and the cases a while back on some sexual abuse involving Garda's(I don't remember the details I just remember hearing it), people are going to lose all respect for the authorities the same way they have for priests/religion and I think it's going to become a very sad state of affairs. They're no secret service but they are all we got :)
Ps- this is coming from a person with quite a few Gardai in it and have nothing against them

checks username

pitythefool

Odysseus wrote: »

Wrong of course, but things like this are going to happen, its not the end of the world. Things liuke this happen always did and will continue; we will never be able to wipe it out totally.

Former Munster and Ireland rugby player Eddie Halvey was drunk and caused a crash where someone died, so it was the end of the world for that person plus years of suffering for their family

If he is the international involved then what would you say

Gee_G

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

checks username

Quite a few in the family, not one myself

minidazzler

Gee_G wrote: »

I think this is a disgrace, once penalty points are logged,they should not be able to be removed!

Yes, they should if there is a valid reason. As in someone caught speeding by a Gatso because they were actually on the way to the Hospital with a kid who was in an emergency situation.

What they shouldn't be removed for is because "Ah, sure, he's a judge, gotta stay on his good side"

Wacker The Attacker

minidazzler wrote: »

Garda Superintendents have the power, not rank and file Gardai I would think.

On this basis, is it reasonable to assume that either a) It's the rank of superintendent and above that are\were quashing the points and\or b) lower ranking gardai were moving it upstairs so to speak.

Death and Taxes

Porkchop McGee wrote: »

We have lost count? Don't talk garbage. The point being this is minor corruption on the grand scheme of things as clear and obvious wide scale corruption is right before your eyes every day and, as a society, we let it slide. Sure go on, get up in arms over a garda making points disappear if it eases your conscience.

I dont need my conscience eased.
This kind of wide scale institutional corruption was a precurser to the disaster that has beset this country of late.
50,000 cases of corruption in penalty points alone, who knows what even more serious cases were taken care of by the Gardai for their political ad influential friends!

seamus

sparksfly wrote: »

True, but a tolerence of corruption on any level by us in our lawmakers and lawkeepers eventually drags us down.
We allowed it to fester in our regulation and planning sectors with disasterous results.

Cianos wrote: »

Maybe correct in comparison to some other countries, but I don't see the value in being contrary in light of any type of corruption. Who's to say that this is the worst form of corruption within the Gardai in any case?

Not being contrary or dismissive of it. Simply making the observation that a story about relatively low-level corruption being national news is actually a good thing on two points:

1. It means that the population are less accepting of these small corruptions. In times gone by, it was taken for granted that if you knew a garda then you could have speeding fines and drink driving charges quietly dropped. If you put that in the paper, people would say, "Well, no **** sherlock". Now it's considered abhorrent enough to be worth printing. That's a good thing.

2. At least one Garda has no problem breaking ranks in order to try and do the right thing. This kind of behaviour has been on the increase in recent years with young Gardai arresting senior Gardai for minor things like speeding and drink-driving, and this report is just another welcome example that things are constantly getting better in the force.

No, we can't ignore low-level corruption, but at the same time where there is power, you will get corruption. It's a fact of humanity and no police force is immune to it.
The seriousness of the problem should be measured by the seriousness of the corruption, which in this case isn't exceptionally serious, so should be taken as an indicator that things are getting better.

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Nine of those who had their penalty points quashed were later involved in fatal crashes!

As said above, you have no idea if penalty points would have made difference or if these people were even at fault in these incidents.

Dicky Pride wrote: »

The naivety and stupidity of this post really irks me. The fact of the matter is if they can do this then they're more than likely up to a hell of a lot more. Guards in this country, for the most part, do not do a good job and most of them are arrogant, ignorant and on a 40 year long power trip.

Do you want some salt and vinegar for that chip? Yeah, most Gardai do nothing more than push people around for their own gain for 40 years. Typical ignorance, I'm not surprised.

"If they can do this, they can do more". Slippery slope fallacy. I break the speed limit from time to time, like everyone does. That doesn't mean that I habitually drink-drive.

dvpower

minidazzler wrote: »

Garda Superintendents have the power, not rank and file Gardai I would think.

Why would Superintendents have this power?

Cee-Jay-Cee

The article says a superintendent has the discretion to cancel a ticket. Ordinary guards can't quash tickets once they're on the system. I don't really see quashing speeding tickets as corruption. If they were taking payment for doing so then yes but other wise it's just a managerial decision.

Wacker The Attacker

Wheres Jimmy McNulty from the wire when you need him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_53g9m0hVQ

Gee_G

minidazzler wrote: »

Yes, they should if there is a valid reason. As in someone caught speeding by a Gatso because they were actually on the way to the Hospital with a kid who was in an emergency situation.

What they shouldn't be removed for is because "Ah, sure, he's a judge, gotta stay on his good side"

Right ok, I agree with you there. That's one of a few situations that they should be. But not 50,000 different incidents!

Grayson

humanji wrote: »

How would penalty points have stopped those fatal crashes?


While not on a Serpico level, it's still good to know there's some honest Gardaí trying to force a change in their ethics. Just wondering if anything will actually come of it, though. Or is it just a slow news day and will be forgotten in tomorrow.

The points might have resulted in a disqualification. Maybe that's why they were removed.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

seamus wrote: »

I think if quashing penalty points is the worst form of corruption that the media can find in the Gardai, then we're not in a bad place at all.

If they go on to kill somebody, when they should not have been on the road then it's pretty serious.

anncoates

CJC999 wrote: »

If they were taking payment for doing so then yes but other wise it's just a managerial decision.

Must add that one to the cute hoor lexicon although it's bulging already.