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The elephant in the room thread.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,499 ✭✭✭ Capri



    We now know the price and value of things ;)

    If the govt copped on and made life easier then things might be different :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,530 ✭✭✭✭ galwaytt


    Capri wrote: »

    We now know the price and value of things ;)

    If the govt copped on and made life easier then things might be different :cool:

    And if they read this thread they might take umbrage at the whole scene and fubar it for everyone......

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,525 ✭✭✭✭ carchaeologist


    galwaytt wrote: »
    And if they read this thread they might take umbrage at the whole scene and fubar it for everyone......

    They have it pretty ****ed up as it is with the 1980 NCT lockdown and the 5 digit ZVs. All this contributes to the problem.

    Wonder will the budget make things any worse...


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,530 ✭✭✭✭ galwaytt



    They have it pretty ****ed up as it is with the 1980 NCT lockdown and the 5 digit ZVs. All this contributes to the problem.

    Wonder will the budget make things any worse...
    Number plates are the least of the issues. €€€ is much more.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    great thread Carchy...an Elephant that needs pointing out....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,525 ✭✭✭✭ carchaeologist


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Number plates are the least of the issues. €€€ is much more.

    Indeed, but if number plates didn't matter why have we have the even sillier 131 and 132 series plates on the way next year. One seems to follow the other.

    I forgot to mention the idiotic import series plates in my original post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭ unfit2006


    The VRT on imported vehicles over 30 years old is what ....€200.

    An old Irish tax book costs €200, maybe €300 depending on make/model.

    So its really much the same cost either way

    It appears to me that most guys bringing in an old car from UK would now go the "ringing" route rather than impose one of those ridiculous ZV plates on their classic car.

    The plate now certainly does matter. I would never have considered the "ringing" of an imported classic in the past but I would consider it now and only because of the shambles of this whole ZV plate thing.

    The loss of revenue to the state on the ringing of 30 year old imports is not/never will be significant in real terms so it's really a matter of preserving some degree of integrity in the Irish classic car scene at the end of the day. That is the thing that bothers me about the practice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,457 ✭✭✭✭ Mr Benevolent


    Why does the ZV plate thing matter so much anyway? I've always wondered why some people get sniffy over the issue,. Surely a licence plate is a licence plate?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    unfit2006 wrote: »
    The VRT on imported vehicles over 30 years old is what ....€200.

    An old Irish tax book costs €200, maybe €300 depending on make/model.

    So its really much the same cost either way.
    You're assuming the car is actually pre-1980. There's benefits to be have for having the docs for an earlier model than the one you might actually have, depending on the year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,525 ✭✭✭✭ carchaeologist


    Confab wrote: »
    Why does the ZV plate thing matter so much anyway? I've always wondered why some people get sniffy over the issue,. Surely a licence plate is a licence plate?

    Indeed, but the illegal practice of cloning cars is the big issue. And like it or not most people do like a nice looking plate on their classic.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    Indeed, but the illegal practice of cloning cars is the big issue. And like it or not most people do like a nice looking plate on their classic.

    indeed and the State could be earning from this rather than some chancer with an old book. Personal plates are big business elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭ mountai


    Well its a great relief to know that all cloned vehicles have valid insurance. Even though false information has been given when taking out these policies. I bet there will be a "Feeding Frenzie" among a certain group , to get their hands on these Log Books.!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    i don't believe thats true. Never been tested.

    I'm sure if the Insurance Company proved the vehicle stolen/ crashed was not in fact the one insured, then they would not have to pay out, or if they did, they would come after the owner for the money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭ mountai


    corktina wrote: »
    i don't believe thats true. Never been tested.

    I'm sure if the Insurance Company proved the vehicle stolen/ crashed was not in fact the one insured, then they would not have to pay out, or if they did, they would come after the owner for the money.

    I have been assured it is true.If you click on the link (sorry I cant do Links) in the" Cloned Car" post on this page, follow the discussion , and you will see that many learned Legal People have given this opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ superfly35


    I was in at an insurance desk for my own insurance, and the lady was on the phone with somebody questioning the validity of the policy as the insured car was not the one the claim was but forward to.

    So I have to say, I would think that if the VIN number in the chassis does not correspond to the logbook a discuss might start....

    I did your other threat too, but I would not want to be having this discuss at all with an insurance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    i'm pretty sure that fraud would negate a policy....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    I read the posts...most of them don't say that they are insured, most of them say the opposite. One guy said that a third party would be paid out, but also said that the Insured would be pursued through the courts...as for Learned Posters...well I have no idea of anyones qualifications on there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,525 ✭✭✭✭ carchaeologist


    It's a grey area, but an open discussion is no harm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭ mountai


    corktina wrote: »
    I read the posts...most of them don't say that they are insured, most of them say the opposite. One guy said that a third party would be paid out, but also said that the Insured would be pursued through the courts...as for Learned Posters...well I have no idea of anyones qualifications on there.

    With respect corktina, anyone who is able to refer to Law,and can quote from Insurance Acts etc is a credible person in My eyes. However I bet not too many of them would know how to change a Timing belt on a Pinto Engine, or set up the Timing on an old BMC one!!!!!!!!!!.
    The consensus of opinion seems to be that Third Party Claims MUST be honoured by the Ins Co in the event of a claim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    well also with respect, I can refer to Law and quote acts to you , in fact I could totally make it up and you wouldn't know the difference....

    I have little doubt that an Ins Co would pay out third party claims ex Gratia (and pursue the Insured for the cash ) but that's NOT the same as being insured... it wont cover the Insured for Legal and Medical costs for a start.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ superfly35


    I would say even if the insurance do pay the claim of the third party, I am sure they will suit to get back there cash and you might lose house and so on the back of it.

    So I would say it is the equivalent of driving un-insure really, except you are put your hand in the sand.

    But that say I am not a law man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭ mountai


    corktina wrote: »
    well also with respect, I can refer to Law and quote acts to you , in fact I could totally make it up and you wouldn't know the difference....

    I have little doubt that an Ins Co would pay out third party claims ex Gratia (and pursue the Insured for the cash ) but that's NOT the same as being insured... it wont cover the Insured for Legal and Medical costs for a start.

    I defer to your Knowledge in this matter (And this is NOT BEING SMART)
    All that I was ever worried about was the innocent third party. They now are not at the risk I thought they might have been. As for "Legal and Medical" costs for the person who took out the policy giving false information ---- Fcuk Em !!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ superfly35


    Well I would say the insurance of the innocent third party will surely with pleasure chase this other guy for you. ;-)

    It is the same as when you drive a non-insured car really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    mountai wrote: »
    I defer to your Knowledge in this matter (And this is NOT BEING SMART)
    All that I was ever worried about was the innocent third party. They now are not at the risk I thought they might have been. As for "Legal and Medical" costs for the person who took out the policy giving false information ---- Fcuk Em !!!

    i read it that you were releaved about Insurance being valid from his own point of view, I apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick. I too am glad that third parties wont suffer from this sort of behaviour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭ Casati


    Dades wrote: »
    You're assuming the car is actually pre-1980. There's benefits to be have for having the docs for an earlier model than the one you might actually have, depending on the year.

    I understand why say a log book for a 1980 911 or XJS might be worth a bob to ring a much newer car and avoid the tax and large VRT, but in the case of the cars at the top of this thread I can't see why somebody would take the risk simply to get a an Irish number plate.

    In the case of a crash with serious injury/ claim, I can see an assessor finding this out very quickly leaving the driver potentially un-insured. Not worth it just to have a HI plate instead of a ZV or 81 TS plate me thinks?

    I always thought that classic car owners were into cars and not simply into the reg on the car!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭ w124man


    As regards insurance and wrong vehicle details, if you have an accident in a vehicle which isnt what you say it is on your insurance then you are not insured. Simple. If your car is 'cloned' then you have revenue and Garda issues in addition to insurance issues. It isnt worth it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,499 ✭✭✭ Capri


    Ad....
    car starts on turn of the key..drives and stops. Log book is also available.. The chassis is suffering from rust in usual merc places.

    Log book is also available :confused: If you buy a car, you get the logbook - or is that now a seperate sale ??? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    w124man wrote: »
    As regards insurance and wrong vehicle details, if you have an accident in a vehicle which isnt what you say it is on your insurance then you are not insured. Simple. If your car is 'cloned' then you have revenue and Garda issues in addition to insurance issues. It isnt worth it.

    yep...if I went out in my spare Fiesta which was not insured and crashed it, but rushed home for the plates off my road-legal Fiesta, would my policy be valid? I'd say the Insurance Company would say, "yes your Insurance is valid but NOT on that car" .They'd say the same for a cloned car, so I can't see that you are insured when you drive a classic and use the taxbook and plates off a long dead car.

    The car insured is not the one that has injured a third party and therefore they are NOT covered under that policy


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭ bbsrs


    Recycling is good , so recycling green log books and old number plates is good too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭ bbsrs


    corktina wrote: »

    i read it that you were releaved about Insurance being valid from his own point of view, I apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick. I too am glad that third parties wont suffer from this sort of behaviour.
    I don't condone driving without proper insurance . Just for information , in the case of an uninsured/improperly insured car causing third party damage ,all claims go through MIB . We pay for MIB via our insurance policy's .


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