How would you handle this situation?

LegacyUser

What would you do? I have 2 children under the age of 10. My sister and boyfriend were visiting one evening. I had put the children to bed, but they never sleep straight away, so I often pop in and out of the sitting room to check they not getting up to mischief. This evening her boyfriend went to the toilet, I thought nothing of this. I was chatting, but as usual I thought to get up and check on the kids. When I came out of the sitting room, across the way, down the hall is their bedroom, the boyfriend is coming out. I initial gut reaction thought was 'what the hell are you doing in there', but because I did not expect this I said nothing and he did not offer an explanation as to why he went in, he just went back to sitting room and I went into the kids. I asked the kids, they gave no explanation. I have met him a few times previously and really liked him, but I wouldn't say I really know him. My kids really like him, because my sister and him are very good with them.
I understand the kids could have called him and wanted to talk to him, but he could have spoken to them from the hall because the end of the bunk bed met the doorway and kinda blocks it a little, so he had to kinda squeeze in and out of the room.
My dilemma is that in the current environment, I feel there are unwritten rules, people need to protect themselves as well as the children. If he was talking to them from the hallway, I would have been fine with that, but the fact that he went to the trouble of squeezing past the end of the bunk bed to get into room, has me concerned. He did not know that I check on the kids as regular as I do.
Though my sister is great with my kids, our relationship is not good, so I don't feel I can talk to her about this (the reason she was in my house was my mother was there). I have changed my plans for Christmas as to avoid them and I am planning on avoiding them until my kids are 18. They have called to my house since and received a very cold reception, which I am not proud of, but I don't know what else to do.
I don't want to talk to anybody about it, in case I am wrong about him, which I could be, but have no way of proving it either way. But I am finding the thoughts of having to avoid them over a long period of time stressful and they seem pretty solid not breaking up anytime soon. I would see them 2 or 3 times a year normally.

GreeBo

Sounds like you have decided he is a paedophile and are treating him as one, but are not willing to confront anyone about it.
I hardly think avoiding your sister for over 8 years is logical or practical.

Esoteric_

Instead of judging him instantly as a paedophile, talk to your children. It's not that difficult to ask 'So what happened when XXXX was in your room? Did he just come in to chat or did you call him in?'

Unless he has actually done something wrong, it's completely irrational to stay away from your sister until your children are adults.

Maybe mention to your sister that you don't think her boyfriend should be going into your kids' room when they're supposed to be going to sleep.

ABajaninCork

Did you ask the BF what he was doing in the children's room? If not, why not?? That's the first thing I would be doing.

Secondly - sit your kids down and TALK to them. Don't yell at them, ask leading questions or make accusations. Just ask them what happened when he went into the room. How long was he there for?

Why are you not willing or able to deal with the situation?

Avoiding your sister for something her bloke may or may not have done without explanation or finding out what happened is irrational to say the least. What are you going to tell your mother and sister when they ask (which they will)?

LegacyUser

@geebo: I did not confront him at the time because I was in shock, was not sure how to react.
@Abajanin
If I ask him about it, what do you think he will say? If he is a predator type, then he will deny it or make an excuse - if he is not, he will be very insulted and say he was in there for whatever reason, but how can I believe his answer anyway.

Secondly nothing would have to happen in the beginning predators break down barriers at first before actually committing any crimes e.g. going in children's rooms making them used to them being in there.

I always put myself in other's shoes when trying to work things out in my head and in the current climate and if i did not know people that well, I would not be caught dead in a child's room on my own and I am female.

@LyndaMcl:
I have asked my children why he was there and they said they did not know. I don't think it is wise to wait until he does something wrong.

ABajaninCork

guest123456789 wrote: »

@geebo: I did not confront him at the time because I was in shock, was not sure how to react.
@Abajanin
If I ask him about it, what do you think he will say? If he is a predator type, then he will deny it or make an excuse - if he is not, he will be very insulted and say he was in there for whatever reason, but how can I believe his answer anyway.

Secondly nothing would have to happen in the beginning predators break down barriers at first before actually committing any crimes e.g. going in children's rooms making them used to them being in there.

I always put myself in other's shoes when trying to work things out in my head and in the current climate and if i did not know people that well, I would not be caught dead in a child's room on my own and I am female.

@LyndaMcl:
I have asked my children why he was there and they said they did not know. I don't think it is wise to wait until he does something wrong.

If I ask him about it, what do you think he will say? If he is a predator type, then he will deny it or make an excuse - if he is not, he will be very insulted and say he was in there for whatever reason, but how can I believe his answer anyway.

Looks as though you've made up your mind without even making cursory inquiries. Fair enough. But HAS he done anything wrong? If anything, you should have set boundaries in the first place like LyndaMcL says. You should tell ANY visitors that they are not to go in the children's rooms if they're in bed. It's common sense anyway.

It seems to be you are unwilling to handle the situation, but would rather keep dodging your sister and her BF, until the kids turn 18. How practical is that?? I understand your need to protect your kids, but if I'm honest, I don't understand your stance.

LegacyUser

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If I ask him about it, what do you think he will say? If he is a predator type, then he will deny it or make an excuse - if he is not, he will be very insulted and say he was in there for whatever reason, but how can I believe his answer anyway.

Looks as though you've made up your mind without even making cursory inquiries. Fair enough. But HAS he done anything wrong? If anything, you should have set boundaries in the first place like LyndaMcL says. You should tell ANY visitors that they are not to go in the children's rooms if they're in bed. It's common sense anyway.

It seems to be you are unwilling to handle the situation, but would rather keep dodging your sister and her BF, until the kids turn 18. How practical is that?? I understand your need to protect your kids, but if I'm honest, I don't understand your stance.

As I said, I would think it common sense not to be going into children's rooms when they are in bed, I shouldn't have to say that. I am not sure what rock he was under when all this sh1t hit the news and everybody nowadays are more careful with how they behave around children. I don't think I am overreacting I said if he spoke to them from the hall, that was fine, there was no need for him to go to the trouble of literally squeezing past the end of the bunk beds to get into the room, the kids could hear him just as good from end of bunk bed as the side of bunk bed. So I can't think of any reason he would need to go into their room.

Big Bag of Chips

If he and your sister are very good to your kids, then he might have just heard them talking and popped in to say hello.

I think it's a litttle bit unhealthy that your first (and only) impression is that he is a predatory paedophile and you want nothing to do with him or your sister anymore.

I would be more inclined to think it was a bit naive of him to go into their room rather than having any malicious intent behind it.

At the end of the day it's up to you what you do, but you have asked "how would you handle this situation?" - I would use the opportunity to talk to my kids about being able to tell me anything. And it doesn't matter if someone asks them to keep a secret that they didn't like, it is always ok to tell me. I don't think I'd necessarily assume he was up to anything.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If he and your sister are very good to your kids, then he might have just heard them talking and popped in to say hello.

I think it's a litttle bit unhealthy that your first (and only) impression is that he is a predatory paedophile and you want nothing to do with him or your sister anymore.

I would be more inclined to think it was a bit naive of him to go into their room rather than having any malicious intent behind it.

At the end of the day it's up to you what you do, but you have asked "how would you handle this situation?" - I would use the opportunity to talk to my kids about being able to tell me anything. And it doesn't matter if someone asks them to keep a secret that they didn't like, it is always ok to tell me. I don't think I'd necessarily assume he was up to anything.

My sister has being going out with this guy for about 2 years and I have met them about 5 or 6 times when visiting my parent, during these visits I would be in the kitchen chatting to whoever and my sis and her BF would be playing with my kids in the sitting room, which I thought was sweet, because aside from my sis and I not seeing eye to eye, this did not affect her relationship with my kids.

So, after bedroom incident, I kinda put that out of my mind, thought I would make sure it would not happen again and forgot about it. But at the next encounter at my parent house, I again was in kitchen and one of my children was in sitting room watching cartoons. My sis and her BF got up late and came down stairs. My sis came into the kitchen to have her breakfast as I thought her BF would do, but he stayed in the sitting room. I really was not thinking anything wrong but when I went into sitting room, he was sitting right next to my child and she was sitting on edge of the seat looking uncomfortable. Now there were loads of seats in the room and most people would pick an empty one and not sit right next to someone else. So I asked my child later on why she was sitting on edge of seat so uncomfortable looking and she said 'she was shy'. I told her she could always move away if she was uncomfortable not to worry about other people.
So why would he stay in sitting room watching cartoons instead of coming into kitchen to speak to adults and have breakfast? My gut was telling me there is something funny here not my head. My head is saying I don't want to deal with this, this is stressful and I could be wrong.
So, am I getting from your replies that I should say it to him, because if there is some sort of consensus on that I will think about doing that? Should I say it to my sis? I am not sure if she would know what to do or have the emotional maturity to deal with this.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I would be more inclined to think it was a bit naive of him to go into their room rather than having any malicious intent behind it.

Even this annoys me; if the kids are awake, is it really that naive to go into their bedroom to say hello and/or have a bit of a banter with them? Despite what newspapers might want you to believe, there isn't a paedophile lurking at every corner.

I have two nieces, and sometimes when I visit my brother/sister-in-law, they might already be in bed; if I were to use the bathroom upstairs and hear that they were still awake, I wouldnt think twice about going in to see them. I have done, in fact. To be honest, this kind of hysteria worries me; it seems these days very adult male is not to be trusted around children alone.

OP, to suggest - to even insinuate - that someone is a paedophile is the worst thing you can do to anyone, and unless you have a fairly solid base of evidence (which it's clear you don't - you havent even spoken to your kids about it) I would think long and hard about what you do or say next.

I actually find it bizarre that you'd even come to this conclusion, unless your sister's BF has given you reason to believe he's a very shady character or something. Furthermore, I think it would be grossly unfair to deprive your children of contact from their aunt and her boyfriend, considering you have mentioned they all get along so well. To hazard a guess, if they get on that well, would it not make sense for him to call into see them?

Everything aside, I understand you only what to ensure your children are free from harm at all times; but this needs to work on a rational level. Talk to your children and let them know they can always talk to you, otherwise you're just going to have to wrap them up in cotton wool for the rest of their lives and drive yourself crazy.

ABajaninCork

guest123456789 wrote: »

My sister has being going out with this guy for about 2 years and I have met them about 5 or 6 times when visiting my parent, during these visits I would be in the kitchen chatting to whoever and my sis and her BF would be playing with my kids in the sitting room, which I thought was sweet, because aside from my sis and I not seeing eye to eye, this did not affect her relationship with my kids.

So, after bedroom incident, I kinda put that out of my mind, thought I would make sure it would not happen again and forgot about it. But at the next encounter at my parent house, I again was in kitchen and one of my children was in sitting room watching cartoons. My sis and her BF got up late and came down stairs. My sis came into the kitchen to have her breakfast as I thought her BF would do, but he stayed in the sitting room. I really was not thinking anything wrong but when I went into sitting room, he was sitting right next to my child and she was sitting on edge of the seat looking uncomfortable. Now there were loads of seats in the room and most people would pick an empty one and not sit right next to someone else. So I asked my child later on why she was sitting on edge of seat so uncomfortable looking and she said 'she was shy'. I told her she could always move away if she was uncomfortable not to worry about other people.
So why would he stay in sitting room watching cartoons instead of coming into kitchen to speak to adults and have breakfast? My gut was telling me there is something funny here not my head. My head is saying I don't want to deal with this, this is stressful and I could be wrong.
So, am I getting from your replies that I should say it to him, because if there is some sort of consensus on that I will think about doing that? Should I say it to my sis? I am not sure if she would know what to do or have the emotional maturity to deal with this.

Yes. You must talk to both. Speak to your sister first, then approach the pair of them together.

Big Bag of Chips

But you don't know who sat down first OP, you weren't in the room. He could have sat on the seat, and your child could have gone over and perched awkwardly on the corner beside him. Kids do it all the time. Mine will even squash in between me and the arm of the couch and perch on the corner of the cushion, when there is a whole empty seat beside me. Nieces/nephews/friend's kids all tend to sit on top of me (and others!).

Maybe he didn't come into the kitchen because he is picking up on the fact that you don't like him.

There are any number of maybes here...

But you are only thinking along one line.

LegacyUser

@jamrach. I appreciate you obviously have a good relationship with your brother,sil and their kids, your are a close family member. I have close family members that would do the same as you and I don't have a problem. This person is not close he is practically a stranger to me and my kids, my kids have taken to him because he is my sis BF, I trust my sis on her choice of BF, but these few incidents in the light that he is a stranger to me and my kids more or less, have given me a fright (for want of a better word).

Esoteric_

OP, I'm not trying to be rude here, but you're disregarding absolutely every piece of (good!) advice you've been given here. You clearly have it set in your mind that this man is a sexual predator, with seemingly NO basis for this assumption.

If you're not willing to follow what appears to be pretty unanimous advice, why are you posting here? Like, what do you expect to get? We're not going to tell you that he's a paedophile just to satisfy the (frankly, irrational) ideas you have.

LegacyUser

i felt compelled to pipe in here as feel this is getting overly one sided

i agree it is sad that there is so much fear out there, a lot of it not rational.

BUT, the reality is that the OP feels something is not quite right. A parent's instinct counts for something here and I don't believe she is wrong for finding this behaviour at least a cause of suspicion.

I agree ignoring the man and her sister are not the solution, but the reality is that she shouldn't be waiting for solid evidence before she acts here. she is completely correct about how grooming begins.

However, it is essential that you talk to your sister OP. Be tactful about it, don't accuse him of anything, but she needs to be put on notice. if there is something inappropriate about this guys behaviour it is likely that she has noticed it too. if she thinks the whole thing is ridiculous, that is fine, you can continue to set your boundaries and protect your kids as you see fit. no matter how upset you think she may be, it is important that you communicate your concerns.

I'm saying all of this knowing full well that this guy could be the nicest guy in the world, and he will probably be upset when he hears what you think. But reasonable people should understand that a mother's first priority is her children's safety.

Best of luck.

LegacyUser

@Lynda. I am posting here because I need to talk to somebody about this. I need to get my thoughts out of my head and see what people think. I cannot talk to anybody else about this. This is the only way I can get it clear in my head. So why don't you come down off your high horse and just respond with some good advise.

LegacyUser

It may be possible that your children are picking up on your odd behaviour/hostile vibes towards this man, and are acting accordingly?
Kids are fairly clued in, they know when their mum is her normal self& when her guard is up.
An isolated unexplained incident does not a predator make. Keep the lines of communication with your children open, certainly, but do not ask them "leading" questions (an example would be- "Don't you think it strange that X came into your room?", as opposed to "How come X was in your room?") Again, children will often reflect back what they think you want to hear. So if you're projecting this guy in a negative light, they too will begin to look on him with suspicion.
As for the sitting room story, I well remember as a girl of that age having "crushes" on older guys& acting awkwardly. It really could be that innocent.
If you've only met the guy 2-3 times in the last year, you actually don't know him that well AT ALL. Maybe if you did, it might set your mind at ease a bit more? There's an element of "stranger danger" to the whole thing at the moment.
Why not just say directly to him, on his own, "Look, there's been something that's been bothering me since your visit to my house, I should have brought it up, but why were you in that room?" And leave that question open in the air for him to answer. His response should tell you all you need to know.

woodoo

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Maybe he didn't come into the kitchen because he is picking up on the fact that you don't like him.

That was my first thought, some people are shy and not particularly comfortable in their in laws house, children tend to be more easy to deal with in them situations.

He should not have went into the room most adult men these days know to well about the hysteria and would never do that. Its very sad but i wouldn't even let someone elses child sit on my knee or take them anywhere or spend any time alone with them. Your reaction to this man proves me right. Its a pity but that seems to be the way these days.

LegacyUser

woodoo wrote: »

That was my first thought, some people are shy and not particularly comfortable in their in laws house, children tend to be more to easy deal with in them situations.

He should not have went into the room most adult men these days know to well about the hysteria and would never do that. Its very sad but i wouldn't even let someone elses child sit on my knee or take them anywhere or spend any time alone with them. Your reaction to this man proves me right. Its a pity but that seems to be that way these days.

I was perfectly nice to him up to this point, it was after this that I began to think that I need to be more careful.
Hysteria, this is an interesting word, because I get the feeling that just because I am picking up on behaviour that is nowaday's not socially normal for people who are not so well known to the family and I am anonymously asking for advice, I am being hysterical and perhaps other mothers in my situation who have nowhere to turn in this kind of situation, will now be afraid to look for advise because they are afraid they will be labelled hysterical (and I am constantly second guessing myself about this). Are there no professional organisations that I could talk to about this who could guide me on how to best deal with my situation.

Esoteric_

guest123456789 wrote: »

@Lynda. I am posting here because I need to talk to somebody about this. I need to get my thoughts out of my head and see what people think. I cannot talk to anybody else about this. This is the only way I can get it clear in my head. So why don't you come down off your high horse and just respond with some good advise.

I already gave good advice, just to point out.

At the end of the day, there's very little else that any of us can say. You won't talk to him, because you 'know' he'll deny anything. You won't talk to your sister because things are fraught between you both. You've already spoken to your kids. What else can you do except cut contact with them, for something which could be nothing?

And I'd appreciate you not insulting me when I'm trying to help, thanks.

LegacyUser

wait a sec wrote: »

i felt compelled to pipe in here as feel this is getting overly one sided

i agree it is sad that there is so much fear out there, a lot of it not rational.

BUT, the reality is that the OP feels something is not quite right. A parent's instinct counts for something here and I don't believe she is wrong for finding this behaviour at least a cause of suspicion.

I agree ignoring the man and her sister are not the solution, but the reality is that she shouldn't be waiting for solid evidence before she acts here. she is completely correct about how grooming begins.

However, it is essential that you talk to your sister OP. Be tactful about it, don't accuse him of anything, but she needs to be put on notice. if there is something inappropriate about this guys behaviour it is likely that she has noticed it too. if she thinks the whole thing is ridiculous, that is fine, you can continue to set your boundaries and protect your kids as you see fit. no matter how upset you think she may be, it is important that you communicate your concerns.

I'm saying all of this knowing full well that this guy could be the nicest guy in the world, and he will probably be upset when he hears what you think. But reasonable people should understand that a mother's first priority is her children's safety.

Best of luck.

Thank you, I really appreciate your post. I will take what you have said on board.

LegacyUser

OP am I right I assuming your a single mum? What kind of male role models do your kids have around them? Have you brothers or your dad etc around them? I ask because my friends two kids when they were younger tended to act very clingy and sometimes awkward around any male visitors. She's a single mum and an only child who lived a good 3 hours from her parents. Her kids had no contact with their dad or any other major male role model in their lives so when male visitors came over they tended to be clingy to them. I stayed one night with my BF at the time who wasn't good with kids and he complained the youngest followed him everywhere and wanted him to go play with him in his room just the two of them. Your kids may well have latched on to your sisters BF but have picked up on your dislike and are worried about getting in trouble with you. They may well have been taking that night and called him in and he just didn't think, or maybe they dropped something off the bunk or were doing something they shouldn't have and asked he not tell mammy. Do you know anything about this guy? Does he come from a small or big family? Is he just use to being round lots of kids and doesn't think anything of it? Or is not use to being around kids and doesn't know what's inappropriate. Or as others have said he's picked up on your dislike for him and maybe thinks the way to win you over is to be good with the kids.

I'm not trying to mock your reaction to this OP but it does seem a very OTT and kids are very quick to pick up on that. Talk to you sister, it's really the only option here as your approach of cutting them out is just not a solution. Also talk to your kids, you can't wrap them in wool forever OP but you can make sure they know then can talk to you about anything if they need to.

woodoo

OP just keep a good tight eye on him and see how things go. But don't go spreading rumours about him on such flimsy evidence.

LegacyUser

Can't log in wrote: »

OP am I right I assuming your a single mum? What kind of male role models do your kids have around them? Have you brothers or your dad etc around them? I ask because my friends two kids when they were younger tended to act very clingy and sometimes awkward around any male visitors. She's a single mum and an only child who lived a good 3 hours from her parents. Her kids had no contact with their dad or any other major male role model in their lives so when male visitors came over they tended to be clingy to them. I stayed one night with my BF at the time who wasn't good with kids and he complained the youngest followed him everywhere and wanted him to go play with him in his room just the two of them. Your kids may well have latched on to your sisters BF but have picked up on your dislike and are worried about getting in trouble with you. They may well have been taking that night and called him in and he just didn't think, or maybe they dropped something off the bunk or were doing something they shouldn't have and asked he not tell mammy. Do you know anything about this guy? Does he come from a small or big family? Is he just use to being round lots of kids and doesn't think anything of it? Or is not use to being around kids and doesn't know what's inappropriate. Or as others have said he's picked up on your dislike for him and maybe thinks the way to win you over is to be good with the kids.

I'm not trying to mock your reaction to this OP but it does seem a very OTT and kids are very quick to pick up on that. Talk to you sister, it's really the only option here as your approach of cutting them out is just not a solution. Also talk to your kids, you can't wrap them in wool forever OP but you can make sure they know then can talk to you about anything if they need to.

No I am not a single Mom, they have a fantastic Dad and they are age 4 and 6, so too young for crushes. They have no idea about how I feel towards this person.

LegacyUser

woodoo wrote: »

OP just keep a good tight eye on him and see how things go. But don't go spreading rumours about him on such flimsy evidence.

Thank you.

CarMe

OP I don't think a lot of the posters have been fair to you. You're children are under ten so they've been on this earth a good long time and Im presuming you've never before had these feelings about a man around them, I think that in itself says a lot. Never under estimate gut instinct, my friend was abused by her uncle and another friend by a neighbour and like this the parents later admitted they never felt quite right about them. You've no solid evidence, I should bloody hope not and certainly don't wait until you do!!
I really hate this insinuation that's it's weird that you automatically think peadofile, seems so old Ireland, don't talk about the fact the fact they exist and people are continuously coming out and saying they were abused now and the horrible fact is people will be coming out with the very same sad stories when our kids are adults too OP so do whatever it takes to keep your children safe and I commend you on not brushing your niggling feelings under the carpet. This man is probably lovely, though what you've outlined would ring alarm bells for me to be honest.
When you address this I would do it with your sister alone and explain to her exactly how you feel and why.

GreeBo

CarMe wrote: »

I really hate this insinuation that's it's weird that you automatically think peadofile, seems so old Ireland, don't talk about the fact the fact they exist and people are continuously coming out and saying they were abused now and the horrible fact is people will be coming out with the very same sad stories when our kids are adults too OP so do whatever it takes to keep your children safe and I commend you on not brushing your niggling feelings under the carpet. This man is probably lovely, though what you've outlined would ring alarm bells for me to be honest.

It is weird to automatically assume someone is something as heinous as a paedophile! Logically there are far more people who are not paedophiles than who are and deciding that someone is one on the "evidence" that the OP has shared so far is pretty poor imo, especially considering what would happen to this man if the OP's "feelings" became public knowledge.

Having children doesnt give you the right to support irrational behaviour.


We had a thread on here before about an inlaw accusing someone of being a paedophile and making inappropriate advances towards their children. There are very serious legal implications involved where this is heading OP, you need to get this resolved one way or another, pussy-footing around doing nothing will achieve precisely that, nothing.

Either move on or bring it up, either way it must come to a head and be resolved for everyones sake.

LegacyUser

GreeBo wrote: »

It is weird to automatically assume someone is something as heinous as a paedophile! Logically there are far more people who are not paedophiles than who are and deciding that someone is one on the "evidence" that the OP has shared so far is pretty poor imo, especially considering what would happen to this man if the OP's "feelings" became public knowledge.

Having children doesnt give you the right to support irrational behaviour.


We had a thread on here before about an inlaw accusing someone of being a paedophile and making inappropriate advances towards their children. There are very serious legal implications involved where this is heading OP, you need to get this resolved one way or another, pussy-footing around doing nothing will achieve precisely that, nothing.

Either move on or bring it up, either way it must come to a head and be resolved for everyones sake.

I would just like to point out that, I am not trying to frighten men into not interacting with children. Men are as important in children's lives as women and I have had very wonderful, loving and caring men in my life. My Dad's friends used to always talk to me and try and have a laugh with me when I was a kid. I appreciated that and enjoyed that and I would hate to think that men would be afraid to have fun and interact with children nowaday's.
My point is as a parent it is my job to protect my children and the adult's around us need to facilitate me in doing that. This person who will always remain anonymous and there is no worries about legal issues as I am only on here looking for advise on how best to move forward. He who is most likely naive in his actions, need to realise that they have a responsibility to help me in keeping my children safe. Therefore when I put my children to bed, which should be the safest place on the planet for them, then no unauthorised person should cross the threshold of their bedroom.

LegacyUser

CarMe wrote: »

OP I don't think a lot of the posters have been fair to you. You're children are under ten so they've been on this earth a good long time and Im presuming you've never before had these feelings about a man around them, I think that in itself says a lot. Never under estimate gut instinct, my friend was abused by her uncle and another friend by a neighbour and like this the parents later admitted they never felt quite right about them. You've no solid evidence, I should bloody hope not and certainly don't wait until you do!!
I really hate this insinuation that's it's weird that you automatically think peadofile, seems so old Ireland, don't talk about the fact the fact they exist and people are continuously coming out and saying they were abused now and the horrible fact is people will be coming out with the very same sad stories when our kids are adults too OP so do whatever it takes to keep your children safe and I commend you on not brushing your niggling feelings under the carpet. This man is probably lovely, though what you've outlined would ring alarm bells for me to be honest.
When you address this I would do it with your sister alone and explain to her exactly how you feel and why.

You are right I have never had these feelings about any of the other men in their lives. I am not about to gather any more evidence. The other posters seem unhappy with my lack of evidence. I think a practical stranger entering my children's bedroom is evidence enough for me to be concerned. But this is where I am stumped, I hate the fact of what I might be implying about this guy and almost can't verbalise it, I want to just pretend it didn't happen, but that is not good enough either. So I rather try to avoid them. Therefore nobody ever has to know my thoughts. But, I am getting the feeling from the posters that is not the solution either. Thank you, I appreciate your calm and balanced response to my post.

ibarelycare

OP what does your children's father have to say about this situation?

You said that your children said "I don't know" when you asked them why your sister's bf was in their bedroom. Did you leave it at that? Did you ask them if he was interacting with them in any way, if he just walked in and stood there? Or what? It seems strange that you would ask them why he was in their room, they would answer "I don't know" and you would not ask them any further questions.

ifElseThen

You need to gently pry a bit more with your children to try to see if anything untoward has happened. Until you can find a satisfactory answer, I think you have every right to be cautious about letting him be around your children. As adults, both your sister and her bf should understand your concerns. I'd much rather risk offending somebody than let my 2 children be in a position where something could happen. Until you know him better, I think you're dead right to not leave him alone with them.
Have a read of this,
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/09/24/120924crat_atlarge_gladwell

All too often, people give the benefit of doubt to the abuser.

If you want to avoid offending your sister, be normal around him but just ensure he is never alone with your children. Better safe than sorry.

LegacyUser

ibarelycare wrote: »

OP what does your children's father have to say about this situation?

You said that your children said "I don't know" when you asked them why your sister's bf was in their bedroom. Did you leave it at that? Did you ask them if he was interacting with them in any way, if he just walked in and stood there? Or what? It seems strange that you would ask them why he was in their room, they would answer "I don't know" and you would not ask them any further questions.

My DH says 'that he would not have done this, if he were in this guys shoes', because of people needing to protect themselves and allowing parents protect their children. He is stumped on this issue also, we both secretly wish they would break up so that we could stop having to dwell on this issue.

Yes, I left it at that at that time, I did not want to make them think that there was any thing wrong by probing too much, as I was unsure myself. They are young and I don't think I would have got a better answer out of them, it was late and they were tired.

LegacyUser

I realise now what I should have done and it would have saved me a lot of stress and heartache. Firstly, my big worry about this, because of the lack of evidence, was labelling this guy or associating him in the wrong with any sort of bad conduct towards my kids, at the same time I was not about to stand around and gather more evidence for my case. I needed him to know I was not happy about him entering the kids room, but was not sure how to go about approaching this conversation without making him feel absolutely terrible if he acted in innocence. I feel the conversation I should have had with him, and will have is this: 'That I as a parent need to protect my children and though I know you entered the room in absolute innocence, you as an adult need to help me to protect my kids and you also need to protect yourself. I love the good relationship you and my sis have with my children and I don't want to damage that, but we need to have an understanding that there is a important need for me to make sure my kids are safe and for you to keep yourself safe too.'
I would hope he would understand my position and realise that I am verbalising this not out of any hysteria, but out of a need for practicality. Thanks for your posts, it has really helped me straighten things out in my head.

Neyite

OP, I read your thread shortly before bedtime. Initially, I admit I wrote you off as over-reacting, that its a terrible thing to think of someone and that you really had no proof as such to accuse anyone and told myself I'd write you a nicely post along those lines in the morning.

But, during the course of the night -feeding a baby, I thought some more about it and I wasn't so sure that was the right thing to say either. Its easy to tell you that you have no proof that this man is a pedophile, and that you cant say it out aloud. But, as parents, do we wait for proof? do we wait until our children are hurt in such a way it can have lifelong reprecussions? do we err on the side of politeness even when our instinct is howling at us due to social convention at the expense of our childrens' innocence? but then, if we dont wait, are we written off as hysterical mammies, and further alienating good male role models in our childrens lives because they also fear that even a benign interest in children will be seen as perverted?

Its a catch 22. Its a massively damaging accusation to brand someone without proof, but when the proof occurs, its already too late and children have been affected.

And you don't have proof here OP. What you have is a mother's instinct that something is, well, off. I believe in instinct when it comes to my child. If my instinct is telling me that my child is sicker than a GP thinks, I have no bones about going to A&E for another opinion. But your instinct could be wrong too, and you will have ripped this family apart if you say it to your sister - he potentially may be around in your sisters life for many years to come. An accusation like that simply does not get forgotten.

If you ask him what he was doing in the children's bedroom, he probably has a plausible explanation - either because he is entirely innocent or because he is a pedophile with a good cover story - you are none the wiser. If you voice your suspicions to your sister, she WILL tell him, maybe your parents and all hell will break loose. We don't want to believe that the people we love are like that. He may not be like that - he may be a man who is blissfully unaware that other men are careful to be seen as appropriate around children, and would be horrified if it happened to a child he knew.

Child abuse is a fear of mine OP, as I had a "funny uncle" situation (not really an uncle more a distant relative referred to as an uncle) as a child. My mother, acting on her instinct from an innocent remark from me (despite Dad thinking she was over-reacting) discovered it before anything sinister happened to me. So, I see where you are coming from. But I also see that you could severley affect this mans life if you are wrong and he is simply oblivious to child abuse dangers.

There are age-appropriate books that I remember my mother getting - they were colouring books where you coloured in good touches and bad touches, when its good for a child to keep a secret, when its not, etc. It explained to a child without explaining if you know what I mean. I dont know where you would get them - maybe ISPCC might be a starting point to obtain the right way to educate your girls without shattering their innocence.

Other than that, personally this is what I would do - you see this man rarely. Minimise but don't cut out the visits entirely. And when you do visit, you and your husband work it between the two of you to always have one of you with a watchful eye- one of you sober while the other has a drink. A baby monitor (one that makes a sound when its switched off in the bedroom eg. Angelcare is one that makes a crackling sound on the receiver when switched off) if you are in the sitting room. Maybe even you and your husband take a child each into your beds for the night.

I would contact the ISPCC if I were you OP. They will have resources that can help you, and offer advice - I guarantee that you are not the first to approach them with nothing more than instinct about someone in the family.

username123

What Im failing to compute on this whole thread is why you did not, when you saw him coming out of the childrens room, ask him what he was doing in there and make it extremely clear that he is not welcome to go into your childrens bedrooms.

Although I would not be assuming that he is a sexual predator just based on what you have posted.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, at the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right. But if you honestly feel that this man is a threat to your children then you need to speak up. Have you other nieces and nephews? Does he have contact with them?

I'm not saying that he is a danger to anyone, but if you feel strongly enough that you are considering cutting off all contact with your sister until your children are adults then you really should tell other members of your family your fears. And allow them to make their own decisions too.

They may agree with you, and all tackle it as a family. Or they may be able to allay your fears a bit and help you to relax more about him.

Either way you can't bury your head and hope it goes away (or that they break up).

Edit: By the way - my 5 year old daughter has her future husband picked out since she was 3! And my very shy, very introvert 6 year old arrived home from school last week asking me how do you know when you're 'in-love' (it seems he is!) I would have thought 4 and 6 much too young for crushes, apparently not!

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

OP, I read your thread shortly before bedtime. Initially, I admit I wrote you off as over-reacting, that its a terrible thing to think of someone and that you really had no proof as such to accuse anyone and told myself I'd write you a nicely post along those lines in the morning.

But, during the course of the night -feeding a baby, I thought some more about it and I wasn't so sure that was the right thing to say either. Its easy to tell you that you have no proof that this man is a pedophile, and that you cant say it out aloud. But, as parents, do we wait for proof? do we wait until our children are hurt in such a way it can have lifelong reprecussions? do we err on the side of politeness even when our instinct is howling at us due to social convention at the expense of our childrens' innocence? but then, if we dont wait, are we written off as hysterical mammies, and further alienating good male role models in our childrens lives because they also fear that even a benign interest in children will be seen as perverted?

Its a catch 22. Its a massively damaging accusation to brand someone without proof, but when the proof occurs, its already too late and children have been affected.

And you don't have proof here OP. What you have is a mother's instinct that something is, well, off. I believe in instinct when it comes to my child. If my instinct is telling me that my child is sicker than a GP thinks, I have no bones about going to A&E for another opinion. But your instinct could be wrong too, and you will have ripped this family apart if you say it to your sister - he potentially may be around in your sisters life for many years to come. An accusation like that simply does not get forgotten.

If you ask him what he was doing in the children's bedroom, he probably has a plausible explanation - either because he is entirely innocent or because he is a pedophile with a good cover story - you are none the wiser. If you voice your suspicions to your sister, she WILL tell him, maybe your parents and all hell will break loose. We don't want to believe that the people we love are like that. He may not be like that - he may be a man who is blissfully unaware that other men are careful to be seen as appropriate around children, and would be horrified if it happened to a child he knew.

Child abuse is a fear of mine OP, as I had a "funny uncle" situation (not really an uncle more a distant relative referred to as an uncle) as a child. My mother, acting on her instinct from an innocent remark from me (despite Dad thinking she was over-reacting) discovered it before anything sinister happened to me. So, I see where you are coming from. But I also see that you could severley affect this mans life if you are wrong and he is simply oblivious to child abuse dangers.

There are age-appropriate books that I remember my mother getting - they were colouring books where you coloured in good touches and bad touches, when its good for a child to keep a secret, when its not, etc. It explained to a child without explaining if you know what I mean. I dont know where you would get them - maybe ISPCC might be a starting point to obtain the right way to educate your girls without shattering their innocence.

Other than that, personally this is what I would do - you see this man rarely. Minimise but don't cut out the visits entirely. And when you do visit, you and your husband work it between the two of you to always have one of you with a watchful eye- one of you sober while the other has a drink. A baby monitor (one that makes a sound when its switched off in the bedroom eg. Angelcare is one that makes a crackling sound on the receiver when switched off) if you are in the sitting room. Maybe even you and your husband take a child each into your beds for the night.

I would contact the ISPCC if I were you OP. They will have resources that can help you, and offer advice - I guarantee that you are not the first to approach them with nothing more than instinct about someone in the family.

Very helpful post. Thanks.

iusedtoknow

You know...my favourite guy in the whole world when I was growing up was my much older sisters boyfriend. (there was 20 years between us, and her boyfriend was another 3 years older on top that that.

Whenever he was over at our place he would alway nip into my room for a "goodnight champ". My sister would babysit us every so often, we'd sleep over and Mike would watch us if the sister had to go out for whatever reason. He'd be the one that would take us down to the park and push a little higher than needed on the swings, a little faster than needed on the roundabout.
I was a nervous kid growing up, and sometimes i would sit awkwardly in the room when I was first getting to know him.

There was never a sniff of anything funny about it, even though he was an only child and didn't have a lot of experience with kids. I read this topic and actually spoke to my mum about it, and asked if she ever felt anything like you feel. She said that if she went through life raising 6 kids thinking that everyone wanted to harm us, she'd never have accomplished anything with her days.

He is still one of my favourite guys in the world and the father of my nephews and nieces.

The only child-molester that has ever been involved in my life is my 4th class teacher, who did 4 years in Kildare for what he did (not to me).

Your kids could be awkward around him because they only see him every so often and you could be depriving them of a very positive role model.
Tread carefully, unless you have proof - you could very possibly ruin this guys life (personally with your sister and in the community, (mud like this sticks) and be perpetuating the idea that every guy that is nice to kids is a potential molester.

LegacyUser

iusedtoknow wrote: »

You know...my favourite guy in the whole world when I was growing up was my much older sisters boyfriend. (there was 20 years between us, and her boyfriend was another 3 years older on top that that.

Whenever he was over at our place he would alway nip into my room for a "goodnight champ". My sister would babysit us every so often, we'd sleep over and Mike would watch us if the sister had to go out for whatever reason. He'd be the one that would take us down to the park and push a little higher than needed on the swings, a little faster than needed on the roundabout.
I was a nervous kid growing up, and sometimes i would sit awkwardly in the room when I was first getting to know him.

There was never a sniff of anything funny about it, even though he was an only child and didn't have a lot of experience with kids. I read this topic and actually spoke to my mum about it, and asked if she ever felt anything like you feel. She said that if she went through life raising 6 kids thinking that everyone wanted to harm us, she'd never have accomplished anything with her days.

He is still one of my favourite guys in the world and the father of my nephews and nieces.

The only child-molester that has ever been involved in my life is my 4th class teacher, who did 4 years in Kildare for what he did (not to me).

Your kids could be awkward around him because they only see him every so often and you could be depriving them of a very positive role model.
Tread carefully, unless you have proof - you could very possibly ruin this guys life (personally with your sister and in the community, (mud like this sticks) and be perpetuating the idea that every guy that is nice to kids is a potential molester.

You are an individual and one of the lucky ones and so was I and there was 9 of us, but I remember my Dad wouldn't let me go swimming with a guy who offered to take me and my friend to the public swimming pool and her Mom had said it was OK, she wouldn't go without me, I was mad with my Dad at the time.
Have you heard of the Savy Report, one of the authors on the Vincent Browne show a few years ago describe child sexual abuse as been epidemic in this country and in light of that I am not about to take changes with my children's lives. I want to take precautions and nobody has to get hurt.

LegacyUser

guest123456789 wrote: »

and in light of that I am not about to take changes with my children's lives. I want to take precautions and nobody has to get hurt.

Fine, don't take chances. Take precautions. BUT, approached in the wrong manner, someone will get hurt here. Either you, your husband, your sister, or your sisters' boyfriend. Of course your childrens' safety must take priority over other peoples' feelings, but equally you don't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
What does need to happen, in the current absence of concrete evidence, is that you approach this guy with your husband, explain that you like him from what you know of him, however you are uncomfortable with him entering your childrens' room- or indeed ANY room of the house (so as not to directly infer that he is a child abuser) at nighttime with neither your knowledge or consent. These are the ground rules for someone being in your home. There needs to be an OPEN AND HONEST conversation between you, your husband, and this guy. Who knows, there may be a- strange!- explanation behind it all. If not, well then you've marked his cards. Get on with it.

CaraMay

I think op the best course of action for you going forward is to be straight up and if you dont like something then say it out. I cant understand why you didnt question him when he was coming out of the kids room or afterwards. Likewise, why did you not ask your kids for more detail.

There is no point letting your thoughts run off days or weeks after the event. you need to strike while the iron is hot in future.

LegacyUser

there is a man at my sons school who i dont feel right about either. he is a little too familer with the kids (just a little) and like that i just have a 'feeling' i have seen him touch my sons face when he thought he was alone and he also was sitting extremly close to an uncomfortable looking child at a party.
i am not sure if he is just a little odd but not a peodophile, and sadly it means i dont encourage a friendship between his son and my son but i am not taking any chances.
finally i agree with your husband (and my husband), because of the currant cilmate men are unfortunatly having to be very careful the way they interact with children so they should be more careful about touching/being alone with children who are not family etc. (why would a man at school need to touch my sons face, and your sis boyfriend has only met the kids a few times)
GO WITH YOUR GUT always.

LegacyUser

I would like to make an important conclusion from all the replies I have read a number of times and because this is such an important issue.

Since I posted this thread, I have been called irrational and hysterical. But, I would like to point out that hysteria can lean on the other side too, where people are so fearful of someone being called a paedophile in the wrong, the suggestion is 'to give him the benefit of the doubt', or you don't have enough evidence, you need more evidence (gathering evidence is not an option).

So on one side you have the danger of somebody being labelled a paedophile in the wrong (which is a terrible thing and should never happen to anybody) and because of that, parents are at a loss to dealing with behaviour that make them feel uneasy.

So the guidelines for dealing with suspicious behaviour as outlined in above posts:
Let people who enter your house know without drama, that all bedrooms are out of bounds, especially when children are in bed to sleep, it's their quite time.

If a person does something that you are not comfortable with, question them immediately 'while the iron is hot'. Nobody has time to think, so should get a honest response.

If your children are being invited somewhere for a play date and you don't know the people, but the kids are friends. You can say they won't go without you.

It is important to build up trust with people you are trusting your children to.

The guidelines for adults (men and women) dealing with children:

You have to allow the parents to keep the children safe and help them in doing so.

Be natural, have a laugh with kids, they love that and nobody wants to damage that.

But don't be alone with them unless this is OK with the parents.

Can anyone improve on this?

Neyite

guest123456789 wrote: »

So the guidelines for dealing with suspicious behaviour as outlined in above posts:
Let people who enter your house know without drama, that all bedrooms are out of bounds, especially when children are in bed to sleep, it's their quite time.

If a person does something that you are not comfortable with, question them immediately 'while the iron is hot'. Nobody has time to think, so should get a honest response.

If your children are being invited somewhere for a play date and you don't know the people, but the kids are friends. You can say they won't go without you.

It is important to build up trust with people you are trusting your children to.

The guidelines for adults (men and women) dealing with children:

You have to allow the parents to keep the children safe and help them in doing so.

Be natural, have a laugh with kids, they love that and nobody wants to damage that.

But don't be alone with them unless this is OK with the parents.

Can anyone improve on this?

I would add that a parent research age-appropriate material that educates children without shattering their innocence that if an adult makes them feel uneasy, or wants them to keep secrets etc how to verbalise that to their parents,. Children dont have the vocabulary at their age to explain what grooming or abuse is, but they do get vibes the same as the rest of us from overly-interested adults.

P. Breathnach

guest123456789 wrote: »

...
So the guidelines for dealing with suspicious behaviour as outlined in above posts:
Let people who enter your house know without drama, that all bedrooms are out of bounds, especially when children are in bed to sleep, it's their quite time.

If a person does something that you are not comfortable with, question them immediately 'while the iron is hot'. Nobody has time to think, so should get a honest response.
...

I'm not convinced that an immediate challenge would flush out an honest response if you are dealing with a real predator. From what I have read (I'm fortunate not to have experience of the problem) people who prey on children are often very accomplished liars.

And how do you win back the ground if you have missed taking those steps? That's the position you find yourself in. I suggest that you do not deal with it, because your position has already been weakened by not reacting immediately. Get your husband to speak to him along the lines of "My wife told me that you popped into the children's bedroom to talk to them. We would prefer that you didn't do that sort of thing because we want them to have boundaries, and we want them to see their bedroom as a space that only they and their parents enter.". Of course he should be attentive to the reaction he gets.

LegacyUser

OP, if it was a woman coming out of your kids room, would you have thought any differently of the situation?

LegacyUser

etsrpons particles wrote: »

OP, if it was a woman coming out of your kids room, would you have thought any differently of the situation?

I wasn't sure whether I should answer this question, because my post was not about whether the person is a man or a women. My post is about how to keep my children safe, when people do things perhaps in innocence that don't allow me that confidence.

But since you asked I did some research that you may be interested in:
Characteristics of Perpetrators and Context of Sexual Violence
• Most perpetrators of child sexual abuse (89 per cent) were men acting alone. Seven per cent of children were abused by one female perpetrator. In 4 per cent of cases more than one abuser was involved in the same incident(s). - Savi Report page xxxv of the Executive Summary. http://www.drcc.ie/about/savi.pdf

Neyite

etsrpons particles & OP, PI is not for discussing hypothetical scenarios - that's taking it off topic. Stick to the issue presented please.

ahnow

Op, alarm bells are ringing. No one, man or woman in this day and age would be caught dead on their own in a childs bedroom in that situation. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT on this. I was abused by someone in the family as a child, it happens much more than you think, I believe its something along the lines of one in three girls and one in four boys. Why is this man putting himself in a childs bedroom? Why is he sitting so close to your child in the sitting room and seeking them out? Do not for the sake of politeness let this go OP, I cannot CANNOT stress this enough. If you have to even just get it out in the open. Tell him straight out that you do not like his behaviour, and tell him in front of others that you would feel more comfortable if he kept an appropriate distance from your children. Then you need to speak to your children. There are ways to tell young children about abuse so as to prevent it, books like "It's OK to say no" etc. do everything possible to prevent this from happening. And yes perhaps he is innocent in all of this. But look at the cost if hes not.

LegacyUser

ahnow wrote: »

Op, alarm bells are ringing. No one, man or woman in this day and age would be caught dead on their own in a childs bedroom in that situation. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT on this. I was abused by someone in the family as a child, it happens much more than you think, I believe its something along the lines of one in three girls and one in four boys. Why is this man putting himself in a childs bedroom? Why is he sitting so close to your child in the sitting room and seeking them out? Do not for the sake of politeness let this go OP, I cannot CANNOT stress this enough. If you have to even just get it out in the open. Tell him straight out that you do not like his behaviour, and tell him in front of others that you would feel more comfortable if he kept an appropriate distance from your children. Then you need to speak to your children. There are ways to tell young children about abuse so as to prevent it, books like "It's OK to say no" etc. do everything possible to prevent this from happening. And yes perhaps he is innocent in all of this. But look at the cost if hes not.

I really appreciate your post. I cannot imagine what you have been through and I am so sorry that, that happened to you. I will do everything in my power to keep my children safe.

I needed to highlight the predicament I found myself in, in hindsight, I think I did not address the bedroom incident out of shock and politeness. I was stopping every urge in me to cry 'what the hell are you doing in there' (this is my gut reaction), because I did not want to seem hysterical(this is my head at work).

I needed to ask myself some questions before I blow this whole thing open. Like, did the kids ask him to pick something up. I asked them 'why he was in there?' and they said 'they did not know', they were old enough to tell me if they had asked him to pick up a teddy or something, but their answer was'I don't know'. Which made me think he went in for no reason and there was no reason to go in as he was as close to them standing in the hallway as going to the effort of entering the room which was not easy to do for a big, tall guy, because of the orientation of the beds. He did not offer an explanation, but felt compelled to exit the room when he heard me coming, he did not speak to me and went back to sitting room. This all could be innocent, but what if it is not?

I remember my sister telling me how a scientist discovered the way electrons worked; he observed people getting onto a bus, they filled up the empty spaces first, before filling the seats next to each other. He was sitting in my child's personal space and she was uncomfortable and as her mother I could read this, I know she did not sit there. She would have been fine with him, if it was her sitting in his space, but not the other way round. My kids jump up on their uncles, granddad etc. but that is usually on their terms and they look comfortable and happy when they do this.

I am not about to call this guy a paedophile, I have no evidence for that, but I want him to know that I am not happy about him being alone with my kids without me knowing and now I don't think I am happy about him being alone with my kids even if I do know. I missed my opportunity to handle this and I wondered if the second incident happened because he thinks I am a stupid or weak mother. Even if the first incident had not occurred I would have thought the second strange anyway, but I am joining the dots, so to speak.

So now how to manage the situation so that nobody gets hurt? I think I will do what one of the posters suggested, asking my husband to speak to him, man to man. That will have a two pronged effect; this is a man telling him that he thinks it was not appropriate, and he will be attentive in future about how he behaves around my kids and any other kids.