Practicality of M5

Bruce7

How much would it cost to run a car like this each year? I know what the tax and insurance would set me back, but petrol, servicing, parts etc. and is it very likely to be stolen?

I'm gearing up for the big conversation with my wife where I try to pass this off as a sensible option for a young family.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/M5/-V10-5.0/713234325470690/advert?channel=CARS

bazz26

How much do you plan on using it? As a daily commuter cost of ownership will not be cheap but overall probably still cheaper to own than a wife.

Bruce7

bazz26 wrote: »

How much do you plan on using it? As a daily commuter cost of ownership will not be cheap but overall probably still cheaper to own than a wife.

I found wife acquisition was a lot dearer than wife ownership!

Daily commute from suburbs into town, bit of running around the place at the weekend, probably 10 or so trips downs the country each year.

Duncan31

What mileage would you be doing? If small mileage, it might be a runner.

Of course its practical, its an estate car:D

Stheno

Bruce7 wrote: »

How much would it cost to run a car like this each year? I know what the tax and insurance would set me back, but petrol, servicing, parts etc. and is it very likely to be stolen?

I'm gearing up for the big conversation with my wife where I try to pass this off as a sensible option for a young family.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/M5/-V10-5.0/713234325470690/advert?channel=CARS

What sort of mileage? The best I can see on mileage for city driving is 11mpg and 14 combined

It might be sensible in terms of size and comfort, but certainly not from the drain on your wallet it would be at any sort of mileage.

The mechanically knowledgeable on here will have any possible issues to highlight for you

Matt Simis

Extremely heavy on fuel (but unless you do mileage who cares) and yes, it is a theft target (again pending your area and where you keep it stored). Tyres will be expensive, as would brake pads and such if needed. Otherwise many of the lesser parts are shared with the regular E60/61.

However its a fabulous car and in estate form its cooler than cool! :cool:

bazz26

From a practicality side it will be as practical as a regular E61 however cost per mile will most definately be higher, really depends on what you are comfortable with paying.

It is probably worth talking to someone with first hand experience of owning and running one, not sure if anyone here has one it but might be worth registering over on bmw-driver.net too.

Alanstrainor

I don't have anything to add...except that it's a monster of a car, and I'm jealous!

Bandara

It's not a runner IMO

First off its completely unsaleable being an estate, you'll lose your shirt on it.

Fuel would be about 12-13mpg, which is pretty sick, servicing/consumables would be upwards of 2000 a year (and that's providing nothing goes wrong).

If your prepared to accept it costing you between 10-15 grand a year for 3 years then go for it.

I'd hazard a guess that you don't really want an estate version, your only going for it cause it's cheaper than the saloon version of that car would be.

I feel ya buddy, but I think you'd regret this one !

Stheno

Hammertime wrote: »

It's not a runner IMO

First off its completely unsaleable being an estate, you'll lose your shirt on it.

Fuel would be about 12-13mpg, which is pretty sick, servicing/consumables would be upwards of 2000 a year (and that's providing nothing goes wrong).

If your prepared to accept it costing you between 10-15 grand a year for 3 years then go for it.

Can you give a breakdown of what makes up the servicing/ownership per year figures you've quoted?

bazz26

There are actually alot cheaper 2007 E60 M5s on carzone than this E61. €10k difference.

Bandara

bazz26 wrote: »

There are actually alot cheaper 2007 E60 M5s on carzone than this E61. €10k difference.

Just seen that, shows how hard it is to move them

Duncan31

Hammertime wrote: »

It's not a runner IMO

First off its completely unsaleable being an estate, you'll lose your shirt on it.

I'd hazard a guess that you don't really want an estate version, your only going for it cause it's cheaper than the saloon version of that car would be.

I dont know, there seems to be a strong following for everything in estate form now.

Padraig Mor

At the risk of offending you op, if you have to ask it may be to much! The Bazman may be along shortly; he had one for a while. He has posted re running costs; while I can't remember all the details, they were eye watering. Iirc he was getting 15mpg average, and that was mostly motorway. There's a few owners over on BMWdriver.net as well. From what I recall the main advice there was to ensure you got a GOOD warranty!

Bruce7

Bruce7 wrote: »

.......... and is it very likely to be stolen? ...........

It'd be a relatively easy way for someone to earn a few grand for an hour's work unfortunately.
Relatively low risk of being caught and prosecuted too.

mickdw

Padraig Mor wrote: »

From what I recall the main advice there was to ensure you got a GOOD warranty!

The 2 year BMW warranty would certainly be worthwhile on an M5. That said, its not much use if they make you pay mad money for the car to start with.
For me, BMW (not just M5) are one of the scariest brands now to run outside of warranty, the bills too often appear to be horrific even on stuff like a basic 520d.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Have one, it's not as bad as people make out. Great car really comfortable and smooth and also really hard and savage depending on your mood, the Carkson bull**** about the gearbox is rubbish.

1. Mpg round town 11 mpg, motorway or 100kph stuff around 24mpg. On track about 7mpg. Cost to fill 90 euro ish. Tank lasts about 400km.

2. Servicing is not so bad. Need a lot of expensive oil but apart from that. The service interval is long enough.

3. Needs a comprehensive warranty, do not buy one that's been serviced outside the BMW dealer network, you can't get warranty on one with a spurious service history. Engine repairs, gearbox and diff cost a bomb.

4. If your on small mileage the running cost are the same as any big engined car, a v8 etc...4 tyres about 1200 for good uns.

Personally I think they are a bargain at the moment for the performance. Expect one to cost 9-12k a year to run ( 4000 fuel at a tank a week, insurance, tax, depreciation, service etc). The performance is amazing and I have driven and owned some fast stuff, the pickup above 4k revs is amazing as is the sound. Like the gadgets like the HUD and a great looking car.

Watch out there a some really crappy ones out there, serviced by monkeys if at all. The one linked has been for sale for at least a year. If you can afford a new 60k (520d msport ) car then buy one of these instead for 30k, run it and have way more fun and know your driving a 500bhp 200mph super saloon.

pred racer

Bruce7 wrote: »

I found wife acquisition was a lot dearer than wife ownership!

Daily commute from suburbs into town, bit of running around the place at the weekend, probably 10 or so trips downs the country each year.

Wife disposal, is dearer than both put together;)

On the m5, just do it:cool:
The Touring is lovely, much nicer than the saloon Imo.

September1

You should be able to put LPG into this engine and cut costs of fuel.

Bruce7

Hammertime wrote: »

It's not a runner IMO

First off its completely unsaleable being an estate, you'll lose your shirt on it.

Fuel would be about 12-13mpg, which is pretty sick, servicing/consumables would be upwards of 2000 a year (and that's providing nothing goes wrong).

If your prepared to accept it costing you between 10-15 grand a year for 3 years then go for it.

I'd hazard a guess that you don't really want an estate version, your only going for it cause it's cheaper than the saloon version of that car would be.

I feel ya buddy, but I think you'd regret this one !

Nah, I'm going for the estate as I'll have 3 kids in car seats very soon, and I'm thinking I could stick one in the boot.

Thanks to all posters for the advice. I know this is not a sensible option, just trying to justify it.

Big Nasty

Hammertime wrote: »

Just seen that, shows how hard it is to move them

No - just goes to show how bloody expensive Dermot Wallace is.

Personally I don't like the E60, would rather an E39 but if you want something newer and an estate what about an RS6?

Atlantic Dawn

It's a large commitment on a car if it turns out too pricey to run you will have massive hassle shifting it. If it was me I would spend 5 to 10k on some similar barge and see how you get on with that, then if your happy trade up to a similar M5.

September1

September1 wrote: »

You should be able to put LPG into this engine and cut costs of fuel.

Ah stop :pac:

Matt Simis

Hammertime wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that you don't really want an estate version, your only going for it cause it's cheaper than the saloon version of that car would be.

I feel ya buddy, but I think you'd regret this one !

Wow you are so wrong there. Do we even want to know what you were qualifying that statement on?!
There are far more (as in this estate is like nearly one of a kind) saloons M5 available / cropped up and all of them much cheaper than this. Last year a family member bought a 2006 for 26k, now its high teens for one. One was up for 16k last month (yes an E60 M5).

I think its you that doesnt like Estates and your preception is coloured heavily; they cost more new and generally command a premium over the "standard" shape in Used sales. Same with the E61 535d, family also has one of them, rare too and again, noticeable premium over the common saloon.

September1 wrote: »

You should be able to put LPG into this engine and cut costs of fuel.

Everyone knows Im a huge LPG fan, but realistically.. its not suitable for a highly strung, 8000rpm M-Powered 10cylinder engine with 505BHP. It has been done and the results were poor, the LPG systems tried could not deliver the fuel at the rate required (noting the appetite of this engine for fueling) at high RPM causing drop backs to petrol (ie a bad thing). Maybe some world class ace LPG installer with best on market or custom injection system could make it work, but havent seen of such a thing. And the cost no doubt would be huge.

The F10 M5 has much better economy and might (might) be a runner in the future. The E39 M5 also shouldnt be too much a problem.

Stheno

Matt Simis wrote: »

Wow you are so wrong there. Do we even want to know what you were qualifying that statement on?!
There are far more (as in this estate is like nearly one of a kind) saloons M5 available / cropped up and all of them much cheaper than this. Last year a family member bought a 2006 for 26k, now its high teens for one. One was up for 16k last month (yes an E60 M5).

I think its you that doesnt like Estates and your preception is coloured heavily, They cost more new and generally command a premium over the "standard" shape used. Same with the 535d, family also has one of them, rare too and again, noticeable premium over the common saloon.

The depreciation is unbelievable once you go past 5/6 years on these!

I was reading up on them earlier when OP posted, and the figures seemed to show that for every 10 E60 saloons that were produced, only 2-3 touring were, so I imagine they are in short enough supply.

MetzgerMeister

It's funny that you're posting about the E61 today. On the chat thread (I think) someone posted a link to the most reliable and unreliable cars from 1997 - 2012 and the E61 M5 was #1 most unreliable.

Regardless of that though, I think that this car will be the one everyone wants in a few years time. Just like people are now scrambling after clean E30's or Toyota Twin Cams, the E61 will be the same in years to come.

TheBazman

I ran one for almost a year and to be honest it was great. You always have a niggle that if something goes wrong that it will be big money to fix however I had no major issues whatsoever. If you get a dealer warranty then all the better

I was doing 70% motorway/30% city driving and got an average of 17/18 mpg. You will not get more than 21 mpg consistently no matter what you try I know Fitzgeme says 24 mpg but that must be downhill with the wind behind you:)

The exhaust note is intoxicating and the performance is unreal. Saying that the best of the performance is to be had north of 7000 rpm which meant you would be doing silly speeds.

Running cost wise servicing, tyres, tax is not a huge amount more than say running a 535d. The big difference is the fuel. I was doing big miles and ended up filling it every 3 days and spending almost half that looking at the fuel light warning light.

As a side - that touring has been for sale for a long time and the price hasnt moved. It think it is quite a bit overpriced.

Voodoomelon

There's an element of ridiculousness about the E60 M5. The costs associated with is are truly eyewatering, in every single respect. You could probably run a proper exotic for similar money.

When you compare it to to ownership of any of the previous models and the newest model, it really is the black sheep of the herd. Such is the price of running a V10 I guess, its a totally different animal.

It's almost wasted commuting about our sh1te roads, getting less than 250 miles a tank, just so you can plant the foot the odd time. Sure you could probably say the same about any performance car in the same price range, but do they cost as much to run?

This E60 M5 to me is a track car, for the weekend. Not a money burner for the commute. The estate E61 baffles me.

Fishtits

Been there.

Buy from a BMW dealer with a water tight warranty... I had a flywheel replaced 10 days after purchase.

Awesome car. A full five seater that can take Grandma to church in comfort and make the boy racers cry on the way home.

An amazing piece of kit. I first drove mine in pissing rain - with the window open to hear the melody... gave it hell but was never aware of it ever loosing traction/electronics interfering etc.

Bad point: the gearbox is a dog and really takes time to get used to.

Overall, Blistering quick - I can't stress this too much, a complete engineered package - apart from the dog of a gearbox.

dredg

Have an E63 M6, not quite the same but same ballpark.

Tax: 1600 (may increase)
Fuel: €6500-7000 in a 12 month period.

My fuel costs are rough projections based on what I've done since August - 25km each way commute 4 or 5 times a week, trip from Kildare to limerick or galway every couple of months.

It's not cheap, but so so worth it. If you can afford it now is definitely the time to buy.

Re: warranty - I looked into it and decided it wasn't worth it. Wear and tear aren't covered, only outright failures. Clutch wears out? Buy a new one, not covered by warranty. Do your own research and decide for yourself but the list of exclusions put me off.

repsol

Make sure you give the car a thorough inspection as a set of tyres or discs for a car like this could produce an eye watering bill and no warranty will cover consumables.I personally think the estate is preferable to the saloon as it is rarer,more discreet and less likely to have been on a track than a saloon as well as more spacious.In terms of being stolen,it would be nigh on impossible without the keys.Having said that,if thieves really wants the car they will get the keys one way or another.If you want the car and have the cash,buy it.We aren't here for a long time ,we're here for a good time!:)

conzy

The E60 M5 is one of my all time favourite cars.. The engine is a masterpiece and I think it looks better than the F10

When I'm looking to change the car in a year or two and they are starting to fall below 15k I will be very tempted.

My biggest fear would be that something major would go wrong with it though, I'd say the repair costs would break me

This video is just wow...

http://youtu.be/xCtJVbJEHZg?t=37s

btkm8unsl0w5r4

There are two toes of e60 m5 out there. There are BMW dealer approved ones, with warranty and low mileage. These are expensive. Then there are the private sale ones, that were serviced down a ally, never got the right oil, never got the recalls done and were driven without any mechanical sympathy, these cost 16k. I notice the good ones don't hang around long as people really lust after this car.

Remember that the performance is 430 or Porsche turbo with the same associated running costs. As for not having a warranty, I have 2000 euro of warranty work done 2 months after buying mine. So going without is IMHO a big risk. The s85 engine was a totally new design and as such had certain issues that are comp,ex to fix cause its a really complex engine. Every bolt on this car has a torque value. For instance the diff oil bleed nut needs to be tightened to a certain torque and a new crush washer each time. So some tool who doesn't know this, induces a leak that costs a 6k smg gearbox.

The gearbox is great, so long as you get the updates done to avoid the problems the 2005 cars had. It's auto smooth, but it doesn't feel like an auto as the power is not linear it's in definite increments. Mostly I drive in manual, an here if it's jerky it's cause your doing it wrong,

Bazman I do get 24 on the motorway....then again I have brand new spark plugs and a lighter foot than you

The estate cost a good bit more than the saloon, I personally think the estate is a fantastic package, except I won't allow my dog in th m5 so it would be wasted on me.

To end my experience it's been less trouble than a 335i, less expensive than a 645i, less to service than a desiel x5 and faster than just about anything while still being practical. Now I am a BMW fanboy. Anyone that says its ridiculous to run I say people with new cars that cost 150€ to tax but cost 600000€ & depreciate 12k a year are ridicilious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zYWOqm_Zkc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnZVkdzXzFQ

Marcin_diy

if you ask for a running cost it won't be a good daily runner for you.
I'd think about something different - find cheaper m5 buy it, and buy another car that is cheap to run - use it week days, and use your m5 for trips and weekends.
in my opinion m5 in heavy daily traffic is just waste of money*

*If i was on decent salary I wouldn't probably care.

rebel.ranter

I saw this car on Monday evening in Dermot Wallace's showroom, super clean looking but didn't look as cool as the Aston next to it!
It is a nice car though.

I don't think the tax, insurance or fuel would be the biggest concern for me, at least these are known in advance.
I looked up the price of a set of OEM discs & pads for one of these, €300 per disc & €200 for a set of pads, almost 2.5 times the price of a 520d set. There's a lot of bespoke fitments on the car, like suspension, the brakes above & gearbox. The SMG pump alone costs about €2,500 (I checked as I have an SMG car myself).
Just be aware of the potential for a big bill.
The scariest part of ownership for me would be the chronic depreciation & then the nightmare of trying to find someone to buy it from you. If you can write off the full value of the car as a sunk cost in your head then I suppose anything above that is a bonus. I'm sure most dealers would give you a poor trade in on an M5. It might even be worth doing a hypothetical test to see the type of offer you might get.

The gearbox is not as smooth as a full auto but with a little bit of effort it can be reasonably smooth. It is not a rational buy as a family car but does every decision have to be?

Bohrio

I was tempted into swapping my rs4 for a sedan m5 a few months ago. They cost more or less the same but the m5 is bigger and more practical. In the end I just didnt like the feel of the car (but that's just me, I found it too big and heavy) but the car was very comfortable to drive and very quick.

However, is strongly adviced you get some sort of warranty, the reason why because if something goes really wrong the costs of fixing it will probably be higher than what you paid for the car. I have heard of repairs costing 10s of thounsands of euros. Also, if the engine blows a new engine is 50K!!!

So warranty is a must!!!

In regards fuel consumption I would think this car is as thirsty (if not more) than mine and I tell you this, I could have used use my car to communte to work every day (back in the days when I worked in the city centre) but I didnt. I live in sandyford, going to the city centre everyday will mean putting petrol every 4-5 days, that's around 100-120 euro per week or 400-400 per month. And imagine if I lived in kildare or someplae like that, multiply that by 2 or 3! And then you have to consider tyres (around 250 each) plus brakes (in mine costs 250 for the front pads, 1000 euro for the front discs plus fitting), etc. Everything on those kind of cars is expensive, I recently had to replace my glove box and a new one costs 650 euro (just the front door).

They are not cheap cars to maintain but they are a pleasure to drive. I use miine only during the weekends as I dont need a car to go to work (5 minute walk). But I could drive to work every day if I wanted to, but I know that if I do this every day, one day someone is going to reverse into it or scratch it etc... I still think is worth it... but just be aware!

Bandara

Matt Simis wrote: »

Wow you are so wrong there. Do we even want to know what you were qualifying that statement on?!
There are far more (as in this estate is like nearly one of a kind) saloons M5 available / cropped up and all of them much cheaper than this. Last year a family member bought a 2006 for 26k, now its high teens for one. One was up for 16k last month (yes an E60 M5).

I think its you that doesnt like Estates and your preception is coloured heavily; they cost more new and generally command a premium over the "standard" shape in Used sales. Same with the E61 535d, family also has one of them, rare too and again, noticeable premium over the common saloon.



Everyone knows Im a huge LPG fan, but realistically.. its not suitable for a highly strung, 8000rpm M-Powered 10cylinder engine with 505BHP. It has been done and the results were poor, the LPG systems tried could not deliver the fuel at the rate required (noting the appetite of this engine for fueling) at high RPM causing drop backs to petrol (ie a bad thing). Maybe some world class ace LPG installer with best on market or custom injection system could make it work, but havent seen of such a thing. And the cost no doubt would be huge.

The F10 M5 has much better economy and might (might) be a runner in the future. The E39 M5 also shouldnt be too much a problem.

Lol, take some deep breaths there

I already posted re: saloons being cheaper, and no your incorrect, I actually love the estate car shape. Always have.

oregano

Hammertime wrote: »

Lol, take some deep breaths there

I already posted re: saloons being cheaper, and no your incorrect, I actually love the estate car shape. Always have.

I'll vouch for this. In fact, hammertimes own car resembles a hearse.

Re resale, more people will buy a saloon, so statistically you have a better chance of selling a saloon quicker. That said, oddball cars only need one oddball buyer, so the estate may retain its value better due to supply and demand.

dharn

having read all the comments above i get the impression you would need to have a very large disposable income to afford owning one of these , it seems too risky for the average guy.You would need to be able to gamble 30000 a year and if you lost, it would not matter, if op is in this category then go for it, if not, dont

btkm8unsl0w5r4

A new engine is around 16k not 50k, however the chances of an engine going are small and there are only a few on the net, most of which were covered by BMW. A reliable engine by all accounts.

Voodoomelon

Beyond the odd coil and turbo problem, has there really been any unreliable petrol engines made by BMW in the last 15 years?

Matt Simis

Hammertime wrote: »

Lol, take some deep breaths there

I already posted re: saloons being cheaper, and no your incorrect, I actually love the estate car shape. Always have.

Good for you, though what I quoted was what you actually said..

Bohrio

Emberly Brave Monument wrote: »

A new engine is around 16k not 50k, however the chances of an engine going are small and there are only a few on the net, most of which were covered by BMW. A reliable engine by all accounts.

I didnt say engine were unreliable and i should have checked the price, however, it didnt surprise me as when i mentioned it to my mechanic he wasnt surprised as he said replacing my engine doesnt cost much less either.

If the op wants to know about common issues check this link

link

Not many, at least not considering the car it is. The only real experience I have with M5 is with my neighbours, he woke up one morning and the car wouldnt move, it was some smg electrical issue, he had to pay for it as it was out of warranty and it cost him around 8 k to fix. At least thats what he told me. A few months later he had another issue with the ignition, cost him another few thousand to fix, he sold it a few months ago. I still think is a great though... wouldnt put me off buying one

Bigus

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Beyond the odd coil and turbo problem, has there really been any unreliable petrol engines made by BMW in the last 15 years?

Big crank shaft issue on 6 cylinder diesels caused by the timing chain gear wearing but it's an integral part of the crank , so no option but to replace it. Very common at the moment with lots of cars off the road, both in and out of the dealer network.

dharn

Bigus wrote: »

Big crank shaft issue on 6 cylinder diesels caused by the timing chain gear wearing but it's an integral part of the crank , so no option but to replace it. Very common at the moment with lots of cars off the road, both in and out of the dealer network.

is it only six cylinder diesels ? so it does not apply to current 320d 520d i thought they had a similar setup

...... Petrol engines the query was about.

dharn

RoverJames wrote: »

...... Petrol engines the query was about.

sorry james you are right of course

The v8 coolant leak is a fairly shocking weakness imo.

Voodoomelon

Forgot about that chestnut alright.

What I do like about the E60 M5 is the F1 car scream of the V10. It sounds like nothing else. Although I heard one about a year ago start from cold late at night and it sounded like pure muck.

dharn

it is like many things in life you could get killed crossing the road but yet we do it every day, you could by a good secondhand m5 and nothing might go wrong

Bandara

Matt Simis wrote: »

Good for you, though what I quoted was what you actually said..

Which I corrected immediately after .....