Request for YOUR feedback on Superthreads

Trojan

Hi Rugby folks,

We got the following feedback and we think Ciaran has a point:

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Apologies in advance about the following rant, but as a point of feedback to any mods that are listening: I don't know about anyone else, but I can't stand the way this forum has become all about super-threads. It makes the entire forum unnavigable. If I want to read about the team announcement for Ireland, and discussion about the team announcement, I have to sift through the hundreds of pages on the Ireland thread and try to guess where it might be somewhere between page 550 and 750. It makes it impossible to find posts relevant to a particular thing. I wish more people could just start threads about a relevant topic, or about posts that they think other people would be interested in.

I mean, why just stop at a handful of threads about 1. Leinster, 2. Munster, 3. Ireland, 4. Everyone else. Why not just have one thread called 'Rugby'? Is it any wonder that this forum has about 30 contributors that post 95% of all content? It is impossible to read anything unless you're on boards for hours a day.

Some people hate the "superthreads". And some people think superthreads make the forum EASIER to navigate as you often have tons of threads that are irrelevant to many forum users, and a thread you are interested in could end up on page 3 in less than an hour after the last post.

We can eventually put a question to a poll, but before we do that we'd like to have some comments and suggestions on both side of the argument. Is there a middle ground, ie a limitation to amount of these superthreads? Or should we just encourage posters to start up new threads for every topic?

-The Rugby mods (and an interested admin)

Hagz

I think the provincial superthreads work perfectly, and I personally find them easy to keep up with. It's the international superthread that passes me by. It's extremely difficult to keep up with the Ireland superthread, at least I find.

molloyjh

I don't think there's anything wrong with the superthreads for regular posters, in fact I personally like them. But I do get Ciarans point all right. Maybe a superthread sub-forum for Ireland, the provinces and things like that? This will prevent too many new threads opening up from us regulars, but also free up the root rugby forum for those that aren't here on a (pretty much) daily basis.

It also means that someone like Ciaran can start a thread on something like team announcements even if it is already being discussed on the superthread?

lologram

I'd say there's a middle ground. You have to trade off having too many threads vs having them completely unusable. I personally have long since stopped considering contributing to the Ireland superthread. As Ciaran said, I think the current system completely stifles wider engagement by users.

PhatPiggins

Loved them when I was student hate them now I can't spend more then 20 minutes a day on here.

thomond2006

The provincial superthreads are fine, since they're rarely extremely busy. If someone wants to bring up a small point about a province that wouldn't suit a match thread, they're pretty handy.

Threads like the Ireland superthread are too messy since it gets far too busy during "peak" times of the season.

Banbridgeman2

I hate the super threads. You have to wait until arguments finish in them before posting. Take the Ireland thread for example, there might be 10 pages arguing about Murray's inclusion and if I make a solitary post about a different subject still relevant to the thread like for example Ireland's defensive tactics it gets lost in the pages discussing Murray's inclusion. Similarly I hate having to shift through 30+ pages to see if something has already been discussed. I'd leave the super threads as places where people can talk generally but I would stop merging threads such as 'Ireland 15 Named', 'Les Kiss Sacked' into them. Sometimes the topic is big enough to have its own thread but is merged anyway which is annoying. I would much prefer a Sexton v O'Gara thread on its own where posters can knock themselves out than clogging up the Ireland forum for example

Tox56

Same feedback as most of the above, provincial threads are fine, but the Ireland thread can be impossible to navigate at times.

jacothelad

There obviously is a happy medium between gigantically long threads and a new one every time a player breaks a fingernail. I'd imagine many posters are unable to keep up and could be lost if they don't have time to browse all day unlike old fogies like me.

Teferi

Just adding my support for keeping the provincial superthreads, they work well.

The Ireland one doesn't, nor do I feel that the Autumn Internationals thread does either. Too much varied information with no real relation to each other.

ionadnapokot

yea i find the Provincial super threads fine to sift through.
Ireland and Autumn international superthreads rarely stay on point and go off on tangents

CIARAN_BOYLE

Agreed international superthreads are bad, but if you get rid of it there will be 30 active Ireland threads at the one time and crap about ROG v Sexton or Murray v Redden will dominate all of them so sticking to topics would probably have to be enforced.

justsomebloke

Truthfully I think we need the super threads as without them I think the forum would actually a lot more annoying to navigate with too many similar yet slightly different threads populating the front page with a lot of people rehashing the same thing and letting smaller topics slip through the cracks as they go off the front page to often.

However I do think there are probably numerous cases at the moment where topics are being posted in the super threads were they should probably be a split off. However to get this write would take a good bit of work from both the users and mods.

If we do create a sub-forum my suggestion is that only an Ireland team sub forum is created as I think any further sub forums would dilute the amount of people viewing the rugby forum as they would get peeved off at having to go into all the other sub forums.

danthefan

What about a specific team selection thread? I guess it would take a mod to manage it so would involve some work, but have it locked and stickied so nobody else can post in it and just update it with team selections from all the different provinces/Irish side as applicable. Would save having to trawl a thread looking for a team selection.

I've no bother with provincial super-threads.

who_me

Personally, I don't have a problem with the superthreads, as long as there's a match-specific thread as well. So, match-specific stuff on the match thread, with the general (Irish rugby tribal warfare...) stuff on the super thread.

OTOH, it can be nice to jump into the superthread immediately after an Irish game, but it's difficult to find that point in the thread. For that reason, perhaps if the thread was 'split' after Irish games? i.e. if the superthread was closed and a new one opened. It might also cut short some of the arguments which rumble on and on and on.

justsomebloke

danthefan wrote: »

What about a specific team selection thread? I guess it would take a mod to manage it so would involve some work, but have it locked and stickied so nobody else can post in it and just update it with team selections from all the different provinces/Irish side as applicable. Would save having to trawl a thread looking for a team selection.

Don't think it would be have to be locked. If it is only team selections that can be posted you aren't going to get that many people posting in it. Yes there maybe a bit of duplication if left open but it shouldn't make it much harder to navigate and it would be easier for mods to remove duplicates rather then users having to wait for a mod to get the time to post it

In relation to stickies we're meant to keep it to a max of 3 so we try not too add any more

BBDBB

I think Ciaran raises a fair point for some users

It depends upon the way you use boards/rugby forum

For regular users who are able to spend a lot of time here then Id guess that Superthreads are convenient

but I think they do stifle debate by limiting the entry points into conversations on a wider variety of sub topics and for the more casual user. its less appealing to either go back and re-read everything since the last visit on a few threads or to interject with a comment when an alternative of lots of different headings for topics would enable a more pick and mix approach


Neither is ideal for all. As both offer different things to different categories of user

durkadurka

Why not get a match thread going very early rather than waiting for the team announcement or for one of thomond's ( or whoever) excellent previews.

Like get the Argentina match thread going now including selection arguments injury updates etc. that would free up the Ireland thread for more general gossip stuff.

.ak

danthefan wrote: »

What about a specific team selection thread? I guess it would take a mod to manage it so would involve some work, but have it locked and stickied so nobody else can post in it and just update it with team selections from all the different provinces/Irish side as applicable. Would save having to trawl a thread looking for a team selection.

I've no bother with provincial super-threads.

Problem with that is where do you draw the line on the discussion, i.e when do you lock the thread. Could be messy imo, and would probably lean towards a very crowded thread again anyhow. Thanks tho.

As user I'm in agreement some of the threads are very hard to sift through. As a mod it's even worse, as you generally need to read each and every post and it's hard to keep a bearing on it especially when a thread burst into flames.

Personally I'm leaning towards the idea of a sub-forum, as I think from both point of views it's easier to manage.

danthefan

.ak wrote: »

Problem with that is where do you draw the line on the discussion, i.e when do you lock the thread. Could be messy imo, and would probably lean towards a very crowded thread again anyhow. Thanks tho.

As user I'm in agreement some of the threads are very hard to sift through. As a mod it's even worse, as you generally need to read each and every post and it's hard to keep a bearing on it especially when a thread burst into flames.

Personally I'm leaning towards the idea of a sub-forum, as I think from both point of views it's easier to manage.

I was thinking it could have no discussion in it. One of the complaints was not being able to find team announcements, such a thread would solve that.

Just an idea anyway, obviously might not be a very good one.

justsomebloke

danthefan wrote: »

Just an idea anyway, obviously might not be a very good one.

With Twitter, Facebook and team specific websites I'm just not sure if there is a user base here looking for that functionality. However if you start a thread on it we can see if the need is there and if there is a user base who are willing to update it.

.ak

danthefan wrote: »

I was thinking it could have no discussion in it. One of the complaints was not being able to find team announcements, such a thread would solve that.

Just an idea anyway, obviously might not be a very good one.

Gotcha, sorry I misread your post.

ray jay

Surely match threads are the appropriate place for team announcements to go? It certainly seems to be the logical starting place for a match discussion to kick off, and it works well for provincial matches. The Ireland superthread is a little too busy alright, perhaps a thread for general Ireland news and then separate threads for topics of sufficient interest to garner a good number of replies would be the best option (Murray/Reddan :pac:). A separate national team forum is a little excessive given it would see little use for much of the year.

justsomebloke wrote: »

With Twitter, Facebook and team specific websites I'm just not sure if there is a user base here looking for that functionality. However if you start a thread on it we can see if the need is there and if there is a user base who are willing to update it.

No, I'd agree with your initial assessment that boards is not a sensible place for a simple announcement and nothing else, forums are specifically for discussion after all.

pickarooney

I find the superthreads highly annoying both because they're impossible to follow if you're not reading them constantly (and I hate just reading part of a thread and probably missing a post answering the question I wanted to ask) and because they bump everything else off the front page.

Also, and I realise I might be alone on this, they just look so boring. I hate seeing a full page of threads with virtually the same name.

freyners

The provincial superthreads are perfect because people use them correctly, they are used as a gossip/update thread to discuss players or new developments at the provinces. When a match is on, most of the talk and reaction goes in the match thread

The AI thread is a disaster imo, there are too many issues on going at one time and makes the thread hard to follow as there can be three or four topics going on at the one time and stuff gets lost in the middle

The Ireland thread suffers from the same problem, 4/5 different topics being discussed and its hard to find the information you want. On team announcement days if you dont look at thread early afterwards you have to go back numerous pages to see the selection (first world problems i know) which can be frustrating.

The other difference between the provincial and national threads is that in provincial threads 95% of the posters posting there are followers of that team, you'll rarely find major disagreements over selections/opinions on the province as a whole everyone is familiar with the players/set-up discussed etc etc.

When it comes to Ireland however, outside of some of the posters here, most posters are very familiar with their own players and not so much with other teams. This can lead to obvious tribalism from some posters which can end up de-railing the thread This itself is not a problem, if this was a place where everyone agreed with each other it would boring. But when things get heated or hen wthere are marginal calls, things can become very heated very quickly and the ban stick comes out,

My opinion is that for all things relating to the national team, one thread is not sufficient. Its cluttered, difficult to navigate and (especially times like these when there is a lot of activity) must be a pain to moderate at times. A sub-forum/three or four dedicated threads might ease some of the issues and take away the clutter problems.

Sorry for the rambling post , just a few things I've noticed from the last month or so

molloyjh

justsomebloke wrote: »

Truthfully I think we need the super threads as without them I think the forum would actually a lot more annoying to navigate with too many similar yet slightly different threads populating the front page with a lot of people rehashing the same thing and letting smaller topics slip through the cracks as they go off the front page to often.

However I do think there are probably numerous cases at the moment where topics are being posted in the super threads were they should probably be a split off. However to get this write would take a good bit of work from both the users and mods.

If we do create a sub-forum my suggestion is that only an Ireland team sub forum is created as I think any further sub forums would dilute the amount of people viewing the rugby forum as they would get peeved off at having to go into all the other sub forums.

Just for the record I was thinking more of a single superthread sub-forum rather than multiple sub-forums. I'm sure you'd find if you were doing this that a lot of conversation would move off the superthreads onto other threads anyway and in some way de-clutter the superthreads.

Banbridgeman2

I think a sub forum isn't a good idea though, the forum would just look too bare. I just think there should be less merging. It would allow users to look at the topics they want to and not have to shift through the topics they don't. I see the point of merging but I don't think the rugby forum is so busy that it's necessary. Might stop a few posters from getting dragged into provincial tit-for-tats when theyve only opened the thread to get the starting 15 as well

errlloyd

I think "Discussion" and "debate" need to be kept (largely) out of the superthreads. They should really just be for following announcements. Any debates or discussions should be placed in their own threads, this would also allow mods to close them more easily, and allow people to kind of choose whether they want to take part.

I can see how frustrating it is for someone who comes on boards in the evening to try to find out the team which was announced at midday, just for the thread to have moved on several hundred posts since then on one particular aspect of the team choice.

I also think we need a superthread on bitching about Kidney.

phog

Superthreads is the way to go - no new threads should be started (bar match threads) that should/can be covered in one of the superthreads.

At times the same topic is covered, posted, duplicated across a few threads and following them can be a mare.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

I think "Discussion" and "debate" need to be kept (largely) out of the superthreads. They should really just be for following announcements. Any debates or discussions should be placed in their own threads, this would also allow mods to close them more easily, and allow people to kind of choose whether they want to take part.

I can see how frustrating it is for someone who comes on boards in the evening to try to find out the team which was announced at midday, just for the thread to have moved on several hundred posts since then on one particular aspect of the team choice.

I also think we need a superthread on bitching about Kidney.

Surely team announcements would be better suited to a match thread though? The team superthreads are more for general team discussions than specifics like that. It would make more sense from the perspective of a less regular user to have that specific sort of info more easily available in specific threads.

Rigor Mortis

Given that we are really talking about five Super Threads; Ulster, Munster, Leinster, Connacht and Ireland, is there any grounds to allow sub -forums for each of those - at least on a trial basis.

It strikes me that, taking Sci Fi as an example, that there are probably more regular users and a lot more activity for any of the five teams than there is for Doctor Who or Star Trek. Not intentionally dissing the Sci Fi fans.

BBDBB

:eek: dont start the Trekkies off ffs!



It seems to me that the purpose of a "super" thread is one of collation, keeping things tidy and easy to access under a convenient banner headline that acts as a direction finder for users. It shouldnt be at the expense of other threads or prevent the same issue being raised seperately. Is the duplication such a bad thing? Im sure when in the club house or pub after a game there are several conversations about identical incidents/issues.

awec

Superthreads are good and bad IMO.

They're good in the sense that they keep things together, and provide somewhere to make throwaway comments about a topic (say I have something to say about Ulster, but what I have to say doesn't warrant me starting a new thread).

The problem though with superthreads is if there is more than one topic being discussed at any time it gets really confusing. Like if 2 people are discussing one player while 5 others are discussing another player, or someone is discussing a event during a game while others are discussing the merits of an international callup.

I don't read the Leinster / Munster threads because when I do I usually have about 20 pages to read and who can be bothered with that? If that 20 pages were 4 threads of 5 pages each I'd read them at my leisure, and I'd be able to follow the conversation far better. The Ireland thread is just as bad, if not worse.

I'd like to see anything topical or worthy of proper discussion being given it's own thread, even if the topic in question is related to one of the superthreads. And then the superthreads can be used for the stuff that doesn't warrant a thread being started.

Fishooks12

I like the provincial super threads tbh

The Ireland one is tough to navigate but I'd fear the kind of stupid/player bashing threads that would spawn from it being disbanded.

In saying that I'm a student and a heavy user but I can understand how it would be frustrating for guys not checking in as often

Fight_Night

Superthreads are good for provincial stuff. Conversations do become a bit saturated but it gives you a medium to leave a comment that on its own wouldn't be worthy of a thread.

Ireland superthread is no good though. Very messy. All the problems you have in the provincial superthreads are far more prominent here. Instead of 1 page arguments there are 10 page arguments which makes it impossible for anything else to be discussed.

Fight_Night

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Given that we are really talking about five Super Threads; Ulster, Munster, Leinster, Connacht and Ireland, is there any grounds to allow sub -forums for each of those - at least on a trial basis.

It strikes me that, taking Sci Fi as an example, that there are probably more regular users and a lot more activity for any of the five teams than there is for Doctor Who or Star Trek. Not intentionally dissing the Sci Fi fans.

Sub forums are a very bad idea imo. Alienates the users and discourages the more neutral fans from posting.

irishbucsfan

Is there anything to be said for super duper threads?

Scioch

I like the superthreads, handy to keep up with stuff without having 12 different threads popping up in your notifications or having to jump around so much.

I get the point about the Ireland thread though, if you're away for a day its hard to find anything related to something that happened particularly the team announcement.

That can be solved with a team announcement thread though. Might also help the Ireland thread as it would draw a lot of the short term bickering over selection which would stop the thread being swamped in such a short space of time.

tolosenc

I think superthreads work well for the more constant, ongoing nature of things like the province, or le Cafe du Rugby, etc. But for things with a very start stop nature, eg Ireland, it just doesn't work. Traffic volume is too high, and then nothing happens for months. AI superthread is impossible, too many conversations going on at the same time.

ScissorPaperRock

I don't think sub forums for provinces are a good idea either, it'll just cause more divisionism between people.

Why not have general discussion threads, but allow more specific threads where there is scope for discussing a topic on its own.

Unfortunately, unless reorganising things would encourage a load of new posters to begin posting, I can see a lot of threads ultimately ending up dying after a few posts or ending up in provincial rows.

awec

The other issue with Superthreads is unless you have been following the thread you have no idea what's being discussed. In other threads the thread title is relevant.

Superthread = open thread. Read post. Don't understand context of post. Look at the quoted post. Keep going back through quoted posts until you find the comment that started the discussion. Realise that you've gone back 10 pages. Read forward, trying to figure out which posts are part of the discussion you are reading and which are about something else. Catch up to the initial post. Read the post after that. Realise it's a different discussion, so start going back through the quotes etc etc etc.

At this point, realise you can't be arsed and click on the "Last page" link, skipping the 5 pages of comments and not reading them at all.

Swiwi

Teferi wrote: »

Just adding my support for keeping the provincial superthreads, they work well.

The Ireland one doesn't, nor do I feel that the Autumn Internationals thread does either. Too much varied information with no real relation to each other.

I agree. Prefer Match threads eg SA vs Aus, rather than a generic Autumn International thread.

Maybe have a general Ireland discussion thread, and then separate match day threads

.ak

What would people think of an Ireland sub-forum? Just an Ireland one.

roycon

yes perfect. ireland thread is always a joke. also move the leinster munster matchday thread into that as well. basically any big match discussion just banish it to the ireland forum

roycon

the provincial threads have a consistent but not explosive level of traffic so they should stay. the leinster thread is my favourite thread on boards and im only on it once every 3/4 days

Fishooks12

.ak wrote: »

What would people think of an Ireland sub-forum? Just an Ireland one.

I like it

.ak

roycon wrote: »

yes perfect. ireland thread is always a joke. also move the leinster munster matchday thread into that as well. basically any big match discussion just banish it to the ireland forum

Oddly enough the munster v leinster threads don't cause too many issues, it's mostly the Irish international ones...

ScissorPaperRock

.ak wrote: »

What would people think of an Ireland sub-forum? Just an Ireland one.

Could be a good idea, if there is enough traffic for it.

I think a sub-forum would only be warranted if it encourages broader discussion within a wider range of threads. If you aren't going to have a larger number of threads and a separation of topics then I don't see any point in a sub-forum. (e.g a subforum with an Ireland superthread would be kind of pointless...)

Banbridgeman2

.ak wrote: »

What would people think of an Ireland sub-forum? Just an Ireland one.

Personally don't like it, I like having everything in one forum. I think that it also encourages new posters to post on provincial threads. But that's just me

.ak

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Could be a good idea, if there is enough traffic for it.

I think a sub-forum would only be warranted if it encourages broader discussion within a wider range of threads. If you aren't going to have a larger number of threads and a separation of topics then I don't see any point in a sub-forum. (e.g a subforum with an Ireland superthread would be kind of pointless...)

Yes, we would be doing it to get away from the Ireland super thread specifically.

padser

.ak wrote: »

What would people think of an Ireland sub-forum? Just an Ireland one.

I'd absolutely love it.

I try and avoid most of the Ireland discussions as they get swamped with lots of irregular posters, lots of flaming and generally just a lot of sh1t. If we could move it all to its own sub forum that would be better again, much easier to avoid.

Regarding super threads I really like them.

The provincial ones are populated (by and large) by regular, well informed posters and are where I do the vast majority of my rugby reading (I read the Leinster one very few days and scan the Munster one every couple of weeks). It's incredibly handy to have it all in one place. I know I wouldn't have missed any major story if I am up to date with them.

The Irish superthread neatly packages up most of the sh1t I don't want to read into one place allowing me to easily avoid it. A sub forum would be even better but the current system is fine.

If there was one change I'd make to the superthreads it would be to ban certain users who try and just use them to create trouble (eg capt bb, jm08 in the Leinster thread) from posting in those specific threads. If you have been borderline trolling in a superthread for months but never quite enough to be banned I'd love to see those posters banned from specific threads while allowing them to still post elsewhere (eg the Ireland thread or Ireland sub forum)