F****n Dublin Bus!!!

cdebru

LFCFan wrote:

There has been more than one occasion when we've had buses pass us with the 'Out of Service' sign up even though we are at start of the route and when it arrived it had it's proper sign up and it was at the correct time but when it dropped off it's last passengers the driver changed to 'Out of Service' and passed by us. When you're relying on this bus and then have to get an overpriced taxi it really makes the blood boil. I sent a complaint to Dublin Bus but never got a reply.

so when do you think the driver would change the sign to out of service in the middle of the route
just because a bus happens to arrive at a terminus at the time that a bus is due to leave does not mean that that is the scheduled bus
the driver could be finished having worked his 8 hours or he could be running late due to heavy traffic for example
although he might arrive at the time a bus is due he could have meant to be the bus from 30 minutes ago in which case he may be sent to the other terminus or further up the road in order to try and regulate the service.

the driver does not make the decision to take the bus out of service he is operating to the running board or the instructions of the controller

LFCFan

cdebru wrote:

so when do you think the driver would change the sign to out of service in the middle of the route
just because a bus happens to arrive at a terminus at the time that a bus is due to leave does not mean that that is the scheduled bus
the driver could be finished having worked his 8 hours or he could be running late due to heavy traffic for example
although he might arrive at the time a bus is due he could have meant to be the bus from 30 minutes ago in which case he may be sent to the other terminus or further up the road in order to try and regulate the service.

the driver does not make the decision to take the bus out of service he is operating to the running board or the instructions of the controller

So you're saying that it's just coincidence that the bus was leaving the Terminus at the exact time the scheduled bus should have been and the actual bus for that time just didn't show up? Bull****. For a start the previous bus had been on time because we had just missed it and saw it pull away. Also, it's not the only time this has happened.

the driver could be finished having worked his 8 hours

So you're saying, if the driver has done his 8 hours, it's ok for him to put the out of service sign up and piss off home without making sure there is a replacement bus?

pork99

I was in Rathmines last week, it was 10.30am and I decided to get a bus into "an Lar". As I was walking to the stop I saw bus after bus - about 10, mostly empty, buses pass me.

However when I got to the stop I waited and waited and waited. Eventually a crowded bus turned up after 20 minutes. I could have (should have) walked into town in that time.

I know that on an equivalent route in London - a main street leading to the city centre - there would be a bus at least every 5 minutes even with London's traffic congestion being as bad as Dublin's. How come they can get it right and Dublin Bus can't?

BuffyBot

there would be a bus at least every 5 minutes even with London's traffic congestion being as bad as Dublin's.

Trust me, having lived there I can tell you it doesn't always work that way. There were many occasions where I was left standing around waiting for a bus which was due to arrive every x minutes.

cajun_tiger

how about waiting 1 hour and 45 mins at 6 pm wednesday night at the first stop no bus arived... the 25a is suposidly every 15 mins

cdebru

LFCFan wrote:

So you're saying that it's just coincidence that the bus was leaving the Terminus at the exact time the scheduled bus should have been and the actual bus for that time just didn't show up? Bull****. For a start the previous bus had been on time because we had just missed it and saw it pull away. Also, it's not the only time this has happened.

it is not unusual for a bus to arrive at the terminus at the time another bus is due to leave
if he is finished he would take that bus back to the garage while another driver starting his days work or returning from his break would be taking a fresh bus from the garage
there is nothing unusual about this
it is not coincidence it is meant to be that way

LFCFan wrote:

So you're saying, if the driver has done his 8 hours, it's ok for him to put the out of service sign up and piss off home without making sure there is a replacement bus?

it is not the drivers job to check if another duty is operating
he follows a board which gives the times he is supposed to operate at once he has done his days work the board tells him to pull the bus in or park it at a city centre terminus
the driver doesn't decide when the bus operates

so what are you saying once he is behind the wheel he should keep driving indefinitely that would not be a very safe practise
there are laws that govern how long you can drive minimum break times rest periods etc
and they are about to be tightened up with the introduction of the 48 hour maximum working week

cdebru

pork99 wrote:

I was in Rathmines last week, it was 10.30am and I decided to get a bus into "an Lar". As I was walking to the stop I saw bus after bus - about 10, mostly empty, buses pass me.

However when I got to the stop I waited and waited and waited. Eventually a crowded bus turned up after 20 minutes. I could have (should have) walked into town in that time.

I know that on an equivalent route in London - a main street leading to the city centre - there would be a bus at least every 5 minutes even with London's traffic congestion being as bad as Dublin's. How come they can get it right and Dublin Bus can't?

that is not unusual either at that time of the morning it is the hangover from the rush hour
it takes a couple of hours to get things back on track

cdebru

cajun_tiger wrote:

how about waiting 1 hour and 45 mins at 6 pm wednesday night at the first stop no bus arived... the 25a is suposidly every 15 mins

first stop outside terminus i presume
basically the buses get stuck in traffic coming out of town
so they dont make it to the outer terminus then because they are so late some will be sent back into town out of service as that is were the larger number of people are travellling from

Victor_Meldrew

LFCFan wrote:

So you're saying, if the driver has done his 8 hours, it's ok for him to put the out of service sign up and piss off home without making sure there is a replacement bus?

Of course it's ok for him to piss off home. If he's done his 8 hours, his day's work is done and it's none of his business whether or not there's a replacement bus. That's the job of his superiors. In only a year of driving for DB, I've learned that in that situation, the worst thing you can possibly do is try to help the stranded passengers. You don't get any thanks, just bloody ear-ache.

LFCFan

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

Of course it's ok for him to piss off home. If he's done his 8 hours, his day's work is done and it's none of his business whether or not there's a replacement bus. That's the job of his superiors. In only a year of driving for DB, I've learned that in that situation, the worst thing you can possibly do is try to help the stranded passengers. You don't get any thanks, just bloody ear-ache.

This is just a general issue about Dublin Bus and there complete incompetance on certain matters. Surely there is some system in place whereby the driver informs the depot that he's finishing his shift and either have a replacement driver available or send another bus to do the route??

cdebru

LFCFan wrote:

This is just a general issue about Dublin Bus and there complete incompetance on certain matters. Surely there is some system in place whereby the driver informs the depot that he's finishing his shift and either have a replacement driver available or send another bus to do the route??

it is just your complete lack of understanding on how it works

do you think dublin bus dont know when a driver is finished his shift it would be a rather incompetant system if they relied on drivers to tell them when they are finished so they could send out the next driver

think about what you are saying instead of mouthing off about things you clearly have no understanding of

LFCFan

cdebru wrote:

it is just your complete lack of understanding on how it works

Of course I have no understanding of how it works. I'm not a Bus Driver and I don't work for Dublin Bus so how the hell would I know how it works.

do you think dublin bus dont know when a driver is finished his shift it would be a rather incompetant system if they relied on drivers to tell them when they are finished so they could send out the next driver

Ok, if Dublin Bus don't need to be told when a driver is finishing his shift then why isn't the drivers schedule such that his last drop off occurs where a replacement driver/bus is ready to take over so people aren't left standing at bus stops watching 'Out of Service' buses drive past??????

think about what you are saying instead of mouthing off about things you clearly have no understanding of

what is there to understand? If a bus doesn't show up for it's route because of whatever reason and this occurs on a regular basis then something somewhere in the system is failing. I will continue to mouth off as long as we have to put up with an unreliable bus service. Are you trying to tell me I should keep my mouth shut and put up with shoddy service just because I don't understand how the system works? If the ESB suddenly decided to cut your Electricty off because of a glitch in their system, would you sit back and say nothing and just accept that there is obviously something in their system you don't understand, but that's ok, I can do with electricity for now???

Victor

LFCFan wrote:

I will continue to mouth off

One has to thread a fine line between mouthing off (which only gets people's backs up) and constructive criticism.

cdebru

LFCFan wrote:

Of course I have no understanding of how it works. I'm not a Bus Driver and I don't work for Dublin Bus so how the hell would I know how it works.

then why when I tried to explain reasons why what happened to you did you say i was talking bull****

LFCFan wrote:

Ok, if Dublin Bus don't need to be told when a driver is finishing his shift then why isn't the drivers schedule such that his last drop off occurs where a replacement driver/bus is ready to take over so people aren't left standing at bus stops watching 'Out of Service' buses drive past??????

ok they dont need to be told
now here is a wild suggestion get on to dublin bus when this happens and ask them why the bus that was due didn't arrive
usually they will be able to explain and give you a reason why this happened
there could be 101 reasons why a bus does not show mechanical failure, traffic accident, heavy traffic,shortage of staff, shortage of buses, etc etc
but if you dont ring you wont find out also if you dont complain to dublin bus and by that I mean head office or your local garage not the next unfortunate driver that comes along the chances are that the problem if it is a regular problem will not be fixed.if you can put your complaint in writing it is much harder to ignore

LFCFan wrote:

what is there to understand? If a bus doesn't show up for it's route because of whatever reason and this occurs on a regular basis then something somewhere in the system is failing. I will continue to mouth off as long as we have to put up with an unreliable bus service. Are you trying to tell me I should keep my mouth shut and put up with shoddy service just because I don't understand how the system works? If the ESB suddenly decided to cut your Electricty off because of a glitch in their system, would you sit back and say nothing and just accept that there is obviously something in their system you don't understand, but that's ok, I can do with electricity for now???

no iam telling you that you were blaming the wrong person
your complaint is with dublin bus management head office or local garage i dont think for one minute you should accept a shoddy service but complain to someone who can do something about it if you dont complain to dublin bus then there is not much point in you complaining here

to use your analogy with the esb you wouldn't go out and give the meter reader from the esb dogs abuse because your electricity had been off you would complain to the people with responsibility for your service because tackling the meter reader is just a wastw of your time and his/hers

LFCFan

cdebru wrote:

then why when I tried to explain reasons why what happened to you did you say i was talking bull****

Sorry, when I said Bull****, I didn't mean that you were telling lies, just that the excuse isn't a very good one when you're standing in the wet and cold watching a bus go by you shoud be on and then having to pay through the nose for a taxi.

ok they dont need to be told
now here is a wild suggestion get on to dublin bus when this happens and ask them why the bus that was due didn't arrive
usually they will be able to explain and give you a reason why this happened
there could be 101 reasons why a bus does not show mechanical failure, traffic accident, heavy traffic,shortage of staff, shortage of buses, etc etc
but if you dont ring you wont find out also if you dont complain to dublin bus and by that I mean head office or your local garage not the next unfortunate driver that comes along the chances are that the problem if it is a regular problem will not be fixed.if you can put your complaint in writing it is much harder to ignore

I have rang and I have emailed and I've only ever gotten one response which was they would look into it and I've heard nothing since.

no iam telling you that you were blaming the wrong person
your complaint is with dublin bus management head office or local garage i dont think for one minute you should accept a shoddy service but complain to someone who can do something about it if you dont complain to dublin bus then there is not much point in you complaining here

I'm not blaming any one person. I know the managment at the end of the day have to take most of the blame but as a company, surely there has to collective responsibility throughout the entire staff? You're only as strong as your weakest link. In most cases that's management.

to use your analogy with the esb you wouldn't go out and give the meter reader from the esb dogs abuse because your electricity had been off you would complain to the people with responsibility for your service because tackling the meter reader is just a wastw of your time and his/hers

If your electricity was off and you saw someone outside your door from the ESB, I can Gaurantee you that most people would have something to say to him. When you're angry about something you will vent that anger at something that represents the thing that has made you angry. It's human nature. Saying that, I've NEVER given abuse to any driver because of this problem as I know I'd be wasting my time but it doesn't mean I haven't wanted to.

Victor_Meldrew

If your electricity was off and you saw someone outside your door from the ESB, I can Gaurantee you that most people would have something to say to him.

I'd probably enquire about when the power is likely to come back (if he looks friendly enough), but I certainly wouldn't give him a bollocking, regardless of the fact that he's an easy target who happens to be wearing an ESB uniform. If he wasn't helpful, I'd just accept that he's not a customer service representative and phone 1850372999 and talk to someone who is.

I have rang and I have emailed and I've only ever gotten one response which was they would look into it and I've heard nothing since.

Never email a letter of complaint to a company - it'll be ignored, pure and simple. A written letter is far more likely to be noticed. With Dublin Bus, your best bet is to ring whatever garage the offending bus is working from (you'll find the numbers in the phone book)

cdebru

LFCFan wrote:

Sorry, when I said Bull****, I didn't mean that you were telling lies, just that the excuse isn't a very good one when you're standing in the wet and cold watching a bus go by you shoud be on and then having to pay through the nose for a taxi..

its not an excuse its a possible reason but just one of many
another reason why a bus might have to go back to the garage instead of operating could be that the bus is soiled
vomit **** piss who knows but it happens
a syringe and needle a fault with the bus that is not mechanical but would be unsafe to carry passengers

LFCFan wrote:

I have rang and I have emailed and I've only ever gotten one response which was they would look into it and I've heard nothing since..

how long ago was it did you take the name of the person you were dealing with if a reasonable time has elapsed and they have not gotten back to you get on to them again
ask them about their customer charter

LFCFan wrote:

I'm not blaming any one person. I know the managment at the end of the day have to take most of the blame but as a company, surely there has to collective responsibility throughout the entire staff? You're only as strong as your weakest link. In most cases that's management..

i see so because you believe you were let down by the company anybody who works for the company is to blame irrespective of how they are doing their job

LFCFan wrote:

If your electricity was off and you saw someone outside your door from the ESB, I can Gaurantee you that most people would have something to say to him. When you're angry about something you will vent that anger at something that represents the thing that has made you angry. It's human nature. Saying that, I've NEVER given abuse to any driver because of this problem as I know I'd be wasting my time but it doesn't mean I haven't wanted to.

yeah we can all get annoyed when things go wrong but we should have the common sense to know there is no point in letting fly at the nearest target better to save it for the people who can do something about it

another point the driver of the next bus that arrives is usually just as pissed off that the bus in front of him did not operate it s means more work more aggravation for him/her

dolles98

jonny68 wrote:

No i wasnt in possesion of a timetable,i looked at the times on the stop itself and there seemed to be buses due but they didnt come whilst i was there,the stop is served by 3 buses on a Sunday (more on weekdays) so where the fcuk were they?is there any point in complaining to Dublin Bus?I rang them about 3 years ago when one time i waited over 50 minutes for a bus and their response was "these things happen from time to time" which i found pathetic so io dunno if ill bother my bollox if thats the sort of response im likely to get.....

I feel your pain. I travel to and from work on the bus and most of the time I get home late and in a bad mood. I have complained to Dublin bus via the "contact us" at the bottom of their web page. I was delighted when I got a reply the next day explaining the problem, only to find out that my collegue got exactly the same automated reply when he complained too!!! We've complained a many times but the 27B route (via Clonsaugh Industrial Estate) seems to be getting worse by the day.

Dublin Bus said because the route has moved to Harristown garage (by the airport) and there are problems following the timetable. This is rubbish!!! The drivers don't know where they are going and there are no inspectors to keep an eye on them. Every day they either don't turn up or go the wrong way. This has been going on for the last couple of months!!!

I'm fed up of complaining to Dublin Bus and I was wondering if there's anyone else who has authority over them. Is there a section of the Dept of Transport we could get in touch with? or maybe the Dublin Transportation Office? Ant ideas would be helpful.

LFCFan

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

but I certainly wouldn't give him a bollocking

And where exactly did I say I'd give him a bollocking? I love the way people on Boards.ie have a habit of reading all sorts into people's posts to suit their own reply.

cdebru

dolles98 wrote:

I feel your pain. I travel to and from work on the bus and most of the time I get home late and in a bad mood. I have complained to Dublin bus via the "contact us" at the bottom of their web page. I was delighted when I got a reply the next day explaining the problem, only to find out that my collegue got exactly the same automated reply when he complained too!!! We've complained a many times but the 27B route (via Clonsaugh Industrial Estate) seems to be getting worse by the day.

Dublin Bus said because the route has moved to Harristown garage (by the airport) and there are problems following the timetable. This is rubbish!!! The drivers don't know where they are going and there are no inspectors to keep an eye on them. Every day they either don't turn up or go the wrong way. This has been going on for the last couple of months!!!

I'm fed up of complaining to Dublin Bus and I was wondering if there's anyone else who has authority over them. Is there a section of the Dept of Transport we could get in touch with? or maybe the Dublin Transportation Office? Ant ideas would be helpful.

the excuse is not actually rubbish the timetable they introduced when they moved the 27b to harristown gave an insufficent ammount of time to complete the route

they did not allow enough time for the traffic congestion up at ballymun on santry avenue and on the oscar traynor rd at the juntion of dundaniel road

they tried to rectify this by sending the bus up the old airport rd and then up collinstown and into harristown however this did not fully deal with the problem

a new timetable came into to operation from today 13/12/2004
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=27b
as you can see they have changed it so not all the buses are going to harristown in the morning now
wether this makes a difference time will tell


on the driver front you are completely right when harristown opened they took in drivers from garages across the city
as they had added duties to the 27b these were operated by spare drivers who had come from different garages the route training they recieved was a farce
which meant that drivers were getting lost or going the wrong way
this would have been a bigger problem for you as only a couple of journeys go into clonsaugh the chances of the drivers being show that when many of them were not shown the main 27b route was slight

My suggestion to you is that you put your complaints in writing(not email) and send it to head office

the fact is that the people organising the transfer to harristown made a complete ar$e of it
none of these things should have happened these are not the only problems with harristown the list is endless and it is all down to bad planning

the only consolation is that the drivers getting lost should ease up now as the duties will be operated by permanent drivers from now on and hopefully the new timetable will make a difference

as for complaints outside of dublin bus i'm not sure dept of transport maybe
but the dto is no good to you

a public transport regulator is meant to be on the way but who knows how long that will take

Victor_Meldrew

LFCFan wrote:

And where exactly did I say I'd give him a bollocking? I love the way people on Boards.ie have a habit of reading all sorts into people's posts to suit their own reply.

Where did I say you did?

dolles98

Thanks for that Cdebru. It would be a better idea for dublin bus to let the passengers know about timetable changes! But what's new???

I'll definatley be writting to head office and if I get the number for Harristown Garage they'll be getting on-the-spot complaints from me every time the bus doesn't turn up.

BCB

LFCFan wrote:

I love the way people on Boards.ie have a habit of reading all sorts into people's posts to suit their own reply

.

Unfortunately this is too true mate especially on that damn politics forum......... :mad:

Victor

BCB wrote:

Unfortunately this is too true mate especially on that damn politics forum......... :mad:

Back on topic please.

_Kaiser_

just found this thread...

Bus services in Blanchardstown have become atrocious.. since the 39s have been extended to Ongar, waiting times can easily be 30 mins+ regardless of day or time.

I can beat the original poster too... I once stood on the Clonsilla Road for 45 mins while 14!!!! buses passed heading to Clonsilla/Ongar with NONE coming back down.

Having gotten severly annoyed I started keeping track of fleet numbers and rang Phibsboro (Phil Donohue is the man down there you want) the next day to complain but the usual excuse of "traffic" was what was given, and even if they DO promise to investigate, the policy is that it's handled internally so you as a customer will not hear anything back anyway... a point confirmed to me when I rang the head office and, according to customer service, each garage is run as a seperate entity.

And to think I used to think the 27's were bad... there ya only have to deal with local scumbags and ignorant, abusive drivers (one of the few decent guy's on the route once told me they consider it a "problem route" in Clontarf and none of the more senior drivers will do it so you get stuck with the dregs of the garage) but it generally runs on time-ish.

For what it's worth tho, always have a note of the time, direction and fleet number if you're gonna try a complaint.. if theres no fleet number visible (fairly common) you can usually ID it by the last 3 numbers of the reg plate and type... all the newer single door double deckers are AV type, the older dual-door ones are RH/RA/RVs depending on year - yes, I know FAR too much about buses..the downside of having to get 6 a day for 5 years!)

parsi

I used work in Dublin back in the days when Bob Montgomery was in charge of Bus Atha Cliath. I got caught a few times by drivers stating I had given wrong fare (route 27 past Heuston) and the old "collect yiour change when getting off" routine (11) . Each time it happened I took the bus number and wrote in. Each time I got a multi-journey ticket back. Bob seemed to take no sh** from no-one which I'm sure suited the vast majority of drivers who did their job despite the atrocious timetabling etc.

As an aside I was talking to a Bus Eireann driver a few yeas ago who was complaining that the route timing for a certain intercity run was done on the basis of the Inspectors driving their staff car despite the fact that the Bus could only legally do 50mph but the staff car did the timings based on their maxspeed of 60mph...

Victor_Meldrew

I've been sat behind the driver several times on Bus Éireann coaches, which according to the speedo have been travelling at a great deal more than 50mph. My record so far is 75mph on a trip to Galway.

Still takes a hell of a lot longer than the advertised 3hrs 40 minutes though.

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote:

And to think I used to think the 27's were bad... there ya only have to deal with local scumbags and ignorant, abusive drivers (one of the few decent guy's on the route once told me they consider it a "problem route" in Clontarf and none of the more senior drivers will do it so you get stuck with the dregs of the garage) but it generally runs on time-ish.

by problem route he meant its the one that you are more likely to be assaulted or abused
your remark about dregs of the garage is insulting to the staff that do operate the route and shows your ignorance
Senior drivers are determined by lenght of service not how good or bad of a driver they are what you tend to get on the 27s is drivers who have not been driving for as long nothing to do with dregs
however that said in order to be marked in permanent on the 27s you would need to be a driver in dublin bus for at least 7 or 8 years and some of the drivers on the 27s have over 30 years service

Kaiser2000 wrote:

For what it's worth tho, always have a note of the time, direction and fleet number if you're gonna try a complaint.. if theres no fleet number visible (fairly common) you can usually ID it by the last 3 numbers of the reg plate and type... all the newer single door double deckers are AV type, the older dual-door ones are RH/RA/RVs depending on year - yes, I know FAR too much about buses..the downside of having to get 6 a day for 5 years!)

the last three digits are normally the fleet number however this does not always mean you will get the right bus
as you could have rh 123 and av 123 or ra 123 in the same garage better to get the whole reg number

_Kaiser_

by problem route he meant its the one that you are more likely to be assaulted or abused
your remark about dregs of the garage is insulting to the staff that do operate the route and shows your ignorance

Well now if being verbally abused ("what f'in business is it of yours?", f*k off!" etc) and actually threatened on one occasion by some (not all, hence my remark that there are a few decent drivers on the route) of these drivers when, as advised by staff in Clontarf depot themselves (Christie McDonald - depot operations as far as I recall - being one), challenging them at the time about their apparent lack of basic driving skills - speeding, slamming over speed ramps while passengers attempt to get downstairs etc - doesn't indicate staff quality at the lower end of the scale , then I don't know what does??!

I've worked in customer facing roles for over 7 years now and I can assure you that if I dealt with clients in the manner that some (again not all!) of DB staff do I would have been fired long ago. I accept that it's a tough job, but - to put it bluntly - if they can't handle the stress in a PROFESSIONAL manner, then I suggest they find alternative employment rather than abusing people who are helping to pay their wages!

I've reported such incidents several times I might add (and in writing on occasion) but gotten nowhere of course.. Another very annoying thing about some of the staff in DB is their refusal to identify themselves when asked (so that if a followup call is made you can reference the person you spoke to at the time).

Secondly, in reference to fleet numbers, I take your point but if you combine this with the route number and time you should be OK. Where NO fleet number is present (as is the case on a lot of the RH/RA class and some of the newer AV's..or it's hidden/scrawled in black marker above the driver's partition) is where the problem arise..personally I'd consider this akin to taxi's driving around without plates.

Finally, I assume you work for DB yourself (correct me if I'm wrong though) so perhaps rather than calling me names, you might suggest how customer complaints might better be raised AND addressed AND the customer subsequently updated (as opposed to the deafening silence that we generally seem to receive when we do so) instead?

(Edited for typo's and clarity)

John R

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Secondly, in reference to fleet numbers, I take your point but if you combine this with the route number and time you should be OK. Where NO fleet number is present (as is the case on a lot of the RH/RA class and some of the newer AV's..or it's hidden/scrawled in black marker above the driver's partition) is where the problem arise..personally I'd consider this akin to taxi's driving around without plates.

The fleet numbers are nothing like taxi plates, they are an internal reference for the company only. the reg number is the means by which anybody can identify the bus in question.
Taxi plates are to identify the car/driver as genuine licenced taxis, somehow I don't think there is a big problem with dodgy types in fake dublin buses out there.