Why should boys get to take it to the max while girls are left with pink play sets?

PC CDROM

So there I was reading and I came across this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2012/1114/1224326570945.html

Is it really down to "toys"
Is that where gender equality is these days?

Comments on the article by John Q Public are quite an interesting take on it all!

Were you defined by your toys?

lazygal

Get the girls this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AtZfNU3zw&feature=share

The One Who Knocks

Because boys rule and girls drool!

donvito99

Who wears the trousers?

squod

More nonsense. Glass ceiling? Why do feminists only care about what is (supposedly) above their heads? Jennifer - why aren't there more female garbage collectors or sewer workers? Why don't you care about that?

Oh, and please - enough with the freshman feminist articles already. You haven't had a single original idea since you began writing here.

Got three lines into that crap and then went to the comments section. Seems about right.

emo72

Jamez735 wrote: »

Because boys rule and girls drool!

Naked brothers band? Whatever happened to them?

BBDBB

My Tonka made me the man I am today GRRRRRRRR


edit - could have been worse..............could have been my Dinky

kowloon

If parents were buying the stuff for girls I'm sure the marketing crowd wouldn't be long adapting to it.

The One Who Knocks

emo72 wrote: »

Naked brothers band? Whatever happened to them?

Who?

Pottler

I'm a grown man, and I love dolls, especially blonde ones.

Shenshen

I do agree with the article. Full-heratedly.

Nevermind toy shops, even the toy ads between Spongebob episodes are enough to make me retch.

The One Who Knocks

Pottler wrote: »

I'm a grown man, and I love dolls, especially blonde ones.

Even better when they're of the inflatable variety.

cgarrad

Barbie is owned by Mattel a multi billion dollar company.

I guarantee they have done their research, its what people want.

MonkeyBalls

inane, empty-headed trash.

and "gender equality", what a joke.

The One Who Knocks

Pottler

Jamez735 wrote: »

Even better when they're of the inflatable variety.

I prefer the ones that wear tight skirts, high heels and Chanel. And Champagne.:D Gotta love a doll.

3ndahalfof6

Because the girls told the boys what to do, this is true.

flutterflye

That article is just a load of crap really.
The things that people find to complain about!
There are kitchens 'for boys', and hoovers 'for boys' and all sorts of things.
If by 'for boys' we mean blue or green, or maybe have a picture of a boy on the box!

Overall, the reason why there are certain toys geared towards certain genders is because those genders tend to lean towards those types of toys.
Girls want to be like mommies and play certain ways with certain toys - all showing their natural nurturing qualities, boys like boisterous stuff or more logical type things.
That is not just stereotyping - that's the way it is.

But both genders will always enjoy certain toys/games geared towards the opposite gender though.
Girls do like playing loud, boisterous games at times, and boys enjoy quiet, imaginative play at times.
But in general, the toys geared towards each gender tends to be that way for a reason.

Besides all that though - does it really matter if a kitchen is pink and has a girl on the box? Can't you just get that for a boy? What's the big deal?
I have bought my daughter tons of 'boy's toys', and when she was a baby, my son had a doll with all the accessories that he would mind and care for while I was minding the real baby. He's had tea sets, a kitchen, toy cleaning accessories. All sorts of things.

smash

I bought my son 2 female wrestlers once. He uses them to pose in the passenger seat of his remote control Ferrari while a power ranger drives!

Ghandee

Baby girl and a baby boy eh.

One sits on its butt and cries, the other sits on its butt and bawls.

Hippies!

I don't get it.

So advertisers advertise barbie and what not directly to girls and it's pink....big whoop?

Look at this ad for Meccano from 1992

Completely gender neutral and could equally be aimed at a girl.

I can't explain "It's amazing what you and a spanner can do" though

Another gender neutral ad from lego

In conclusion, sissy boys are being discriminated against because Barbie insists on portraying their products as for girls only. Disgrace.

Cosmicfox

Even as a child I found that quite annoying. I had no interest in dolls but that's all I ever got off people. The girls section in the argos catalogue is just a big blob of pink I wasn't interested in action man or toy lorries either mind.

I ended up having a big box full of near pristine barbies and babydolls I never went near. Some money must have been wasted on those. I wonder how many other little girls felt the same.

I just played with plastic animals, lego and crash bandicoot on the PS1.

I don't think it's little girls demanding these toys, it's just what is bought for them.

Stained Class

As a parent, I can give some angle on this.

Put simply, girls are diffrent to boys from day one.

Don't listen to the 'all is equal' brigade. They are so full of sh1t that their eyes are brown.

Boys & Girls are diffrent.

Always have been & always will be.

The world's a better place for it too.

PC CDROM

flutterflye wrote: »

That article is just a load of crap really.
The things that people find to complain about!
There are kitchens 'for boys', and hoovers 'for boys' and all sorts of things.
If by 'for boys' we mean blue or green, or maybe have a picture of a boy on the box!

Overall, the reason why there are certain toys geared towards certain genders is because those genders tend to lean towards those types of toys.
Girls want to be like mommies and play certain ways with certain toys - all showing their natural nurturing qualities, boys like boisterous stuff or more logical type things.
That is not just stereotyping - that's the way it is.

But both genders will always enjoy certain toys/games geared towards the opposite gender though.
Girls do like playing loud, boisterous games at times, and boys enjoy quiet, imaginative play at times.
But in general, the toys geared towards each gender tends to be that way for a reason.

Besides all that though - does it really matter if a kitchen is pink and has a girl on the box? Can't you just get that for a boy? What's the big deal?
I have bought my daughter tons of 'boy's toys', and when she was a baby, my son had a doll with all the accessories that he would mind and care for while I was minding the real baby. He's had tea sets, a kitchen, toy cleaning accessories. All sorts of things.

But have you considered the effect this is all going to have on the upper echelon jobs and activities for kids? Like being a TD or CEO etc etc.

Not basic jobs.

It's important in gender equality terms.

cgarrad

Women want to be men.

It's sad.

Pottler

cgarrad wrote: »

Women want to be men.

It's sad.

I've never noticed a queue of women wanting to do sh1tty greasy jobs though, nor too many women who want to be men when they've a flat tyre or battery... anyway, I hate manneen women, far better to be female and all woman. Who the hell wants the sexes to be the same? Nothing as attractive as a feminine woman who is confident in the fact she is a woman, not trying to be somthing she isn't. It's like an effete man, ffs, just act your sex.

cafecolour

Is Ireland in some 20 year time-warp? This is like an article from the US/England from the early-90s.

Anyway, there's always my parents' approach, which is to treat both genders equally by only buying them 'educational toys' (at least until about age 9-10 when they finally gave into our whining and bought us normal toys like our friends).

flutterflye

PC CDROM wrote: »

But have you considered the effect this is all going to have on the upper echelon jobs and activities for kids? Like being a TD or CEO etc etc.

Not basic jobs.

It's important in gender equality terms.

What in the name of god are you talking about?
What have toys got to do with being a CEO?!
Gender equality is all about both genders having equal rights, not about being the same.

Stheno

Pottler wrote: »

I've never noticed a queue of women wanting to do sh1tty greasy jobs though, nor too many women who want to be men when they've a flat tyre or battery... anyway, I hate manneen women, far better to be female and all woman. Who the hell wants the sexes to be the same? Nothing as attractive a feminine woman who is confident in the fact she is a woman, not trying to be somthing she isn't.

Strangely although I was female, my Dad wanted his firstborn to be a boy, so ignored my gender. I'd everything from Dolls to lego to those multi storey garages as toys when I was a kid.

I learned how to cook(my Mum didn't cook), how to run a business (my parents were self employed), how to plumb in a sink, wire in a cooker, change a plug, all sorts of stuff, unlike most of my siblings.

I got to play any sport I wanted and was encouraged to get involved in politics, debate, charity, as I have to say were all of my siblings. I also did Irish Dancing and gymnastics (which I got thrown out of as I was "ungraceful")

I've stopped to help out a bloke with a puncture, and whilst first bemused, they were then most grateful, now I'm fairly slight so we split the jobs on our physical ability, but they were very grateful for the assistance. I've had men stop to help me when I've had punctures and appreciated the help too, not cos I couldn't do it, but as it was appreciated. When I did my driving test I got a puncture and my tester just stood there whilst I changed it and congratulated me on my ability to do so :eek:

I never understood the gender gap when I was a child, have ended up in a primarily male occupation, and rarely come across the gender gap. I've been visibily in need of help i.e. on crutches in the past, and gotten help from both genders

I'd argue there is a bit of nature versus nurture here, my sister next to me is a mother of two with a daughter who lives in pink, thinks hello kitty is God, and does ballet.

As an adult female I can buy pink power tools (I don't as I dislike the colour) but can and do buy feminine umbrellas to stop my male colleagues stealing and ruining mine.

Are we formed by our childhoods? I suspect not. Studies clearly show that male/female patterns of behaviour are predicated on hormone levels, and it can influence.

Toys don't matter a feck, yes they are a social tool, but that pretend baby doll I got aged seven didn't turn me into an earthmother. It's the overall upbringing the sense of self belief and the empowering of that which is most important in my opinion.

Pottler

stheno, you sound sound.:)

ladypip

Whilst shopping for xmas this week myself and my partner were looking for some art kits for our son only to be faced with walls of pink boxes. It seems toy companies are now telling our little boys they cant create. I would have no objection to buying something in a pink box for him but I don't think he would get much use out of flowery jewellery kits or design your own dolls clothes kits. When I was a kid there was a great section of kits to choose from, at least half unisex and then equal boy girl specific kits. Lego is another one we noticed with exception of the blatantly girly girly friends sets everything was in blue boxes with male themes. Come on toy companys not every girl or boy fits so neatly into the little peg holes you are forcing them into.

johnr1

Pottler wrote: »

stheno, you sound sound.:)

Stheno's a bonafide ledge. The end.

Stheno

ladypip wrote: »

Whilst shopping for xmas this week myself and my partner were looking for some art kits for our son only to be faced with walls of pink boxes. It seems toy companies are now telling our little boys they cant create. I would have no objection to buying something in a pink box for him but I don't think he would get much use out of flowery jewellery kits or design your own dolls clothes kits. When I was a kid there was a great section of kits to choose from, at least half unisex and then equal boy girl specific kits. Lego is another one we noticed with exception of the blatantly girly girly friends sets everything was in blue boxes with male themes. Come on toy companys not every girl or boy fits so neatly into the little peg holes you are forcing them into.

What about jigsaws, scaletrix etc? Those are still non gender specific and very good for children in developing skills.

johnr1 wrote: »

Stheno's a bonafide ledge. The end.

And you are?

Pottler

Stheno wrote: »

What about jigsaws, scaletrix etc? Those are still non gender specific and very good for children in developing skills.



And you are?

A you fan. And who can blame him.:D

Stheno

Pottler wrote: »

A you fan. And who can blame him.:D

I'm feeling like I've online stalkers now?

Stheno

Pottler wrote: »

A you fan. And who can blame him.:D

Just cos I'd stop the help ya fix a puncture?

I'd not if you looked like a boardsie

Pottler

Stheno wrote: »

Just cos I'd stop the help ya fix a puncture?

I'd not if you looked like a boardsie

I don't! I actually the anti-nerd, second coming.:D

Stheno

PC CDROM wrote: »

But have you considered the effect this is all going to have on the upper echelon jobs and activities for kids? Like being a TD or CEO etc etc.

Not basic jobs.

It's important in gender equality terms.

It is in my backside.

It's how you are brought up and taught to perceive the world regardless of your gender that is important.

I was brought up as I've said in a very gender neutral environment, I was the first born so I minded the shop etc. My sister next to me minded the kids as I was minding the shop. We were both brought up to do chores and contribute to the household, when my brother (1st) came along he had the same responsibilities.

We got the same toys, gifts etc at Christmas, for some reason we got garages as well as baby dolls and jigsaws.

We were encouraged to get involved in sports, charities, politics etc, our parents supported any third level activity

I grew up minding a shop, my sister grew up minding kids.

She's now very successful in her chosen career with children that are very well balanced.
I'm now very successful in my career with no children, yet enjoy time with my partners children, I'm more focused on my career but always was even as a child.

We both benefited from a childhood that encouraged us to find our own path (and our parents would kindly be called conservative catholics), education, self betterment, a recognition of others in society and the need to be fit and eat well. We were always thought to do the best we could and strive to be the best we could.

If you looked at my brothers and sisters you'd conclude that we have achieved above and beyond what our working class status would have decreed, I'm not yet a CEO but I report to a COO and have expectations that I will move one.

Having a baby doll at age seven has had no impact on that. My overall upbringing has. Being taught good manners and an appreciation of others has helped me more in my career than what toys I had at a formative age.

Dravokivich

Things can be typical without being stereotypical. Kids tend to play in a similar fashion amongst themselves throughout the country.

This is shown by that thread during the week, or last week about playing football as a kid. Fúck all of us know eachother, yet the same rules seemed to be in play.

Its no different for girls/boys when they play together or with their own gender. Gender very rarely is anything worth thinking about. It wasn't ever anything I thought of as a kid.

Stheno

Pottler wrote: »

I don't! I actually the anti-nerd, second coming.:D

I of course look completely nerd like? Describe please?

Dravokivich wrote: »

Things can be typical without being stereotypical. Kids tend to play in a similar fashion amongst themselves throughout the country.

This is shown by that thread during the week, or last week about playing football as a kid. Fúck all of us know eachother, yet the same rules seemed to be in play.

Its no different for girls/boys when they play together or with their own gender. Gender very rarely is anything worth thinking about. It wasn't ever anything I thought of as a kid.

Me either, I just was a kid, it was normal for me to man the till in the shop, then go to parties, off swimming whatever.

I never discriminated as a kid. Weirdly though as a kid I came across non whites, non Catholics, travellers, almost all of the groups who are proscribed in inequality legislation. I never came across LGBT people and the first real encounter with someone who was gay I struggled with as it wasn't part of my "norm"

I eventually got over it, and years later laugh at my teenage self about it.

So are the experiences we have as young people formative? They could be dependant on parents and regardless of toys?

Dravokivich

Stheno wrote: »

So are the experiences we have as young people formative? They could be dependant on parents and regardless of toys?

The only time I took my parents into consideration with what I did was "Can I get into trouble for this?" Which would be breaking things, or being places I shouldn't be.

It never mattered who I was with to me.

Stheno

Dravokivich wrote: »

The only time I took my parents into consideration with what I did was "Can I get into trouble for this?" Which would be breaking things, or being places I shouldn't be.

It never mattered who I was with to me.

Me either, but what was formative for me was being encouraged to think as an individual and not just soak up what I was told but to question it.

Never came down to gender though. More learn how to question what is in front of you?

Sleepy

I'll be honest, I've deliberately tried to influence my daughter to be a bit of a tom boy. Not because I wanted a son (never have, always wanted a daughter), but because I find the "tee-hee-hee I'm just a girl" ****e both repulsive and depressing.

But, her favourite colour is pink, she prefers wearing dresses to trousers (because they rise up when she does "twirlies", loves dolls and playing kitchen etc (though the kitchen thing would be mimicking me rather than her mother as I do most of the cooking in our house).

She loves Lego, and tbh, it was as good as forced on her between her older brother's love of it and the fact that as her 31 year old father, I still got Lego for Christmas from my own father last year! IMO, it's the best toy in the world because it's whatever the child wants it to be: a gun, a house, a bakery, an airport, a race car, the TARDIS, a village, Spongebob's house or whatever their imagination wants it to be. It also teaches children a huge amount: logic, spatial awareness, creativity etc.

She tends to be more aggressive than her brother and is certainly the tougher of the two yet still loves being prett", using mammy's lip gloss and girly things. How much is nature and how much is nurture / greater societal influence I'm no idea.

johnr1

Stheno wrote: »

What about jigsaws, scaletrix etc? Those are still non gender specific and very good for children in developing skills.



And you are?

Someone who remembers usernames by how sound I perceive their posts to be. Wouldn't even know if you were male or female but for your posts in this thread, - but I remember your username as being on my "really sound" list.

Pottler wrote: »

A you fan. And who can blame him.:D

I wish I was young....

Stheno wrote: »

I'm feeling like I've online stalkers now?

/stalks harder.

PC CDROM

Stheno wrote: »

It is in my backside.

It's how you are brought up and taught to perceive the world regardless of your gender that is important.

Sorry. I was taking the p1ss out of the article via one of John Q Public's Comments in the articles comments section.

jester77

squod wrote: »

Got three lines into that crap and then went to the comments section. Seems about right.

Same, except I didn't bother with the comments.

gurramok

Its gas how the clothing lines are in department stores.The young girls section(under 12) is all pink and boys is mostly dark colours with spots of white\grey thrown in. But the teenager section gets less pink for girls the older you get and the adult woman section has practically zero pink at all.

If gender stereotypes were true, all adult women would be wearing pink today but they are not! They wear boring dark colours just like what was available for boys aged 2, you'd swear every woman had gender identification problems if the same logic was applied to a girl aged 2 who wore dark colours.

Moral of the story? We're not naturally defined at birth when colours come into it, todays childrens clothes lines are all stereotype marketing(same for colours of toys sets). Each individual is different and can choose what colour they like, your gender should not have a stereotypical favourite colour applied to it.

bluecode

cafecolour wrote: »

Is Ireland in some 20 year time-warp? This is like an article from the US/England from the early-90s.

Exactly, that article is just tired old rehashed lazy journalism. You could read stuff like that way back in the eighties or even the seventies.

The simple reality is that there are boy's toys and there are girl's toys and inbetween there are many, many toys that fit in neither category. In the real world of marketing manufacturers and shops provide what the customer wants.

But there is nothing to stop any little girl asking for and getting transformers or whatever nor is there a ban on a little boy playing with Barbie.

There was an interesting little experiment on TV where they laid out toys in front of monkeys in a zoo. They found that generally 'boy' monkeys loved boy toys particularly things with wheels and 'girl' monkeys went for the dolls.

There is a persistent fantasy among many people that every little girl really wants to be an Engineer/Scientist/Bricklayer/Builder's Labourer but it's only sexual stereotyping thats preventing it. Yeah sure.

Shenshen

Pottler wrote: »

I've never noticed a queue of women wanting to do sh1tty greasy jobs though, nor too many women who want to be men when they've a flat tyre or battery... anyway, I hate manneen women, far better to be female and all woman. Who the hell wants the sexes to be the same? Nothing as attractive as a feminine woman who is confident in the fact she is a woman, not trying to be somthing she isn't. It's like an effete man, ffs, just act your sex.

How many men have you seen queuing up to do demeaning, filthy, poorly paid work in "female" jobs?
How many men do you know running a household and bringing up kids for no pay at all? How many clean loos in hospitals?

When my brother started training as a nurse, friend and relatives asked questions like "Don't you mind having to wipe people's bottoms?"
Not one of them asked my mother anything like that when she was training to become a nurse.

There's ****ty jobs stereotyped for both genders, so this is a bloody stupid argument right there.

Left-handed people are different from right-handed people, yet we'd snort at the idea of selling toys tailored to right-handed kids and completely differnt ones for left-handed ones.
So where does the idea that there need to be two enterily completely different sets of toys for boys and girls come from? What's the advantage of having nearly no toys at all that boys and girls could play with together?

Shenshen

bluecode wrote: »

Exactly, that article is just tired old rehashed lazy journalism. You could read stuff like that way back in the eighties or even the seventies.

The simple reality is that there are boy's toys and there are girl's toys and inbetween there are many, many toys that fit in neither category. In the real world of marketing manufacturers and shops provide what the customer wants.

But there is nothing to stop any little girl asking for and getting transformers or whatever nor is there a ban on a little boy playing with Barbie.

There was an interesting little experiment on TV where they laid out toys in front of monkeys in a zoo. They found that generally 'boy' monkeys loved boy toys particularly things with wheels and 'girl' monkeys went for the dolls.

There is a persistent fantasy among many people that every little girl really wants to be an Engineer/Scientist/Bricklayer/Builder's Labourer but it's only sexual stereotyping thats preventing it. Yeah sure.

So where's the benefit of taking those possibly inate traits and enforcing them even further?
Playing is all about learning. If ever girl on the planet is born with more talent for child minding and less for building walls, wouldn't it be a good educational approach to try and teach her about things she doesn't know about yet?
And incidentally, wouldn't it be helpful teaching boys more about domestic skills?
I rememer my mom making a conscious effort in that with my two brothers, "in the interest of their future marriages", as she put it.

emo72

what im getting from this thread is, women only want to break the glass ceiling. they have no interest in breaking the glass floor?
come back to me when there is 1 bin woman and 1 female sewerage woman.